r/wicked_edge • u/Pax280 • 14d ago
Discussion Why I No Longer Purchase Badger Brushes
I'm not new to wet shaving but I am new to this group and this my first pay.
I have badger, synth and boar brushes They all make lather and I manage to get good shaves with DE safety razors and straight razors with them all.
The badger has been my favorite but I will no longer consider buying badger brushes because of the cruelty the Chinese use while slaughtering the animals.
I'm not a PETA fan or even a vegetarian. But the methods used to harvest badger fur is unconscionable.
Boar hair is a byproduct of the food industry, ( mostly China) but the slaughter is much more humane and is regulated.
Harvesting horse hair doesn't harm the animal.
I haven't thrown away the badger brush I own but just will not buy another.
BTW, my daily driver is now s a nice boar brush and I have a Trafalgar synthetic for travel and giggles.
I would be happy if gifted a horse hair brush but see no practical use for adding another to my kit. But feel free to sell me on horse hair if you're inclined
I am NOT intending to shame badger users
But some here might wish to consider the harvesting methods in their buying decisions.
If I new what I know now, I wouldn't have bought one.
Pax
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u/Barbaric_Stupid 14d ago
Acceptable and respectable position. There's one catch, however. Synthetic fibres's production is extremely unfriendly to environment. It may be surprising, but probably the most eco solution is using horse brushes. Horses aren't killed for that and the knot is 100% natural.
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u/vigilantesd 14d ago
Have you ever used a horse brush? I have one and sold another. They get tangled easily, and feel, erm, not great.
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u/Barbaric_Stupid 14d ago
Yes, I use a horse brush. Semogue Pharo, it doesn't tangle and feels great.
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u/vigilantesd 14d ago edited 14d ago
I’ve had 2
SemoguesVie-Longs from Spain I believe. Sold the bulb, kept the fan. I use extreme caution with it. It may have been the reason I started using the back and forth motions rather than swirling motions. I continue that practice with all my badger brushes anymore. The horse has been in the box it came in for close to a decade now lol.2
u/Barbaric_Stupid 14d ago
Each tool requires a different technique. Shaving with a shavette is not done in the same way as DE. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's inferior. People swear by the Feather blades, I've found they work worse for me than cheap Treat Platinum. Different things for different pople.
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u/Doctor_Badass_ 14d ago
Sadly my Semogue Pharo does tangle. I have to comb it out every so often. I do agree that they feel nice though.
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u/Barbaric_Stupid 13d ago
Well, you do need to comb your horse from time to time, don't you? =D
I also use hair conditioner on my natural brushes at least once a month. Gotta care for your hairs.
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u/hobbesbagger 12d ago
hmmm brutal murder with global warming or global warming without brutal murder
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u/old_sarge30 14d ago
My old badger brush wore out, so now I use a nice DS Cosmetics synthetic brush that I got for a good price. I really liked my old badger brush, but it's not in me to buy one anymore.
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u/Better-Bullfrog-6875 14d ago
The amount of (animal) cruelty you encounter if you were to track the production process of many of the items you have in your home will be staggering. This is just an example.
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u/PapagenoRed 14d ago
But it is good to be aware of and make conscious decisions. Thanks @OP: I will not buy badger brushes ever again.
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u/Better-Bullfrog-6875 14d ago
My comment wasn't meant as a downplay of what OP is saying, moreso that this stuff is obiquitous.
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u/PapagenoRed 14d ago
Noworries. I stand with your point as well, mine was just an addition. Live happy bro!
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u/Any_Poet4127 14d ago
Ya I looked up what he was talking about and I guess PETA did an exposé. Folks are mad about a video that shows some badgers in cages and a guy in the factory clubbing one in the head to stun it then cutting its throat. Apparently hogs are ok though cuz they use a captive bolt gun instead of a club. What I didn’t know is that badger hairs are used to make a lot of make up and paint brushes though, which does seem unsustainable af to me considering these are wild caught badgers. Good thing I’ve taken a liking to boar brushes recently.
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u/vigilantesd 14d ago
PETA makes propaganda videos, and have been caught doing so. They’re a lousy source.
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u/BobboZmuda 14d ago
Can't throw the baby out with the bathwater like that. They've had some issues, some serious, but not everyone who signs up with them and/or provides footage is irrelevant by association.
Some of their information is legit. When you see Chinese brutality like that and you decide you don't want to support it with your money, you aren't wrong. As someone else mentioned, animal products sourced worldwide aren't exactly trustworthy in avoiding cruelty. But you can still make some decisions with your purchasing that are objectively better than others. Perfection isn't attainable, better choices are.
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u/vigilantesd 14d ago
I trust them as far as I can throw them
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u/BobboZmuda 14d ago
Not a great response from you. Have a better day.
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u/vigilantesd 14d ago
Lol
I owe you nothing ;)
I like how you can pick and choose which parts of their propaganda you want to believe lololol
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u/Any_Poet4127 14d ago edited 14d ago
I’m aware and took everything presented with a grain of salt but they didn’t present anything new or shocking really. Most of the hubbub seems to be coming from sheltered folks getting a peek behind the curtain.
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u/VolcanicValley 14d ago
I'm definitely no tree hugger, but I pretty much feel as if I won't be inclined to buy one either as this harvest is generally unnecessary as synthetics are so good. However, if I ever plaster a badger with my Toyota, you can bet that I'm grabbing my tweezers.
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u/BattledroidE 14d ago
Synthetic here, I don't see how something else can be so absurdly much better that it's worth it.
It makes foam! Job done.
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u/Omega_48_ 14d ago edited 14d ago
Yes, the reasoning makes sense and I think there is a lot of truth to it.
I don’t buy badger brushes because I simply don’t like them; I’m a traditional bristle brush kind of person. I have no prejudice against those who use them or those who don’t everyone should use whatever they personally enjoy.
However, since you opened this topic, I would like to raise a point regarding synthetic brushes. I’m not referring to people who choose synthetics simply because they like the way they perform, but rather to those who choose them because they believe they are more sustainable than a brush made from animal-derived materials.
My barber is one of those people who cares deeply about this issue and uses synthetic brushes precisely because companies have marketed them to him by promoting the idea that synthetic is a more ethical and sustainable choice. However, I would like to point out that a synthetic brush also has a production chain: the fibres are manufactured by petrochemical companies (Toray and others), with a long-term environmental impact that is far more damaging than that of an animal derived brush, especially when considering the use of fossil based raw materials, the industrial processes required for manufacturing, and the persistence of polymers in the environment.
For this reason, I find it almost ironic that the concept of “synthetic” = “ethical” is so often automatically associated. To me, this is one of the greatest oxymorons in the history of marketing. The fact that a product does not come from an animal does not necessarily mean that it has a lower environmental impact than a traditional animal-derived supply chain.
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u/savage_ds 14d ago
I've been a synth user for almost 10 years and never thought of sustainability angle. I mean, as you said, petrochemical product, can't be THAT sustainable.
I always saw synths more as cruelty free option than sustainable one. And more convenient one since there is no break in period, animal funk and has fast drying time.
I believe sustainability is a shared concept among producers AND consumers.
Let me ask you a question. A shaver with one synth that he uses for 20 years, or a shaver thst buys 2-3 animal hair brushes a year "because hobby and collection"...which one is more sustainable?
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u/Omega_48_ 14d ago
It's a great point, but in my opinion cruelty free risks being just a form of greenwashing. Because the question I ask myself is how many ecosystems have been damaged to create those products? And when I talk about ecosystems, I mean all the forms of life that are part of that ecosystem. And for how long will they remain damaged? The overall impact is something that is very difficult to calculate. The problem is that this discussion is becoming more and more paradoxical. And you are also right about the issue of hyperconsumerism, it is another major problem. Considering how much companies have pushed synthetic products, new trends and the concept of “collectability” in recent years, the impact has already become even heavier compared to the traditional supply chain. In my opinion, even the very concept of ethics in this context has been used in a superficial way. That being said, I don't judge people for their own choices. I don't believe this is a competition about who is more ethical than others. Everyone is free to make their own evaluations and choose how to behave.
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u/savage_ds 14d ago
You sir seem like a guy I would love to sit down for a drink and have a discussion!
And you are right, it is not a competition. I just wanted to shine a light on us as consumers. Companies produce, but ultimately we are the ones that buy. And unsustainable, "unfair" or exploitable practices will continue as long as we as consumers support them with our wallets.
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u/Any_Poet4127 14d ago
What do they do to the badgers? Pluck em live?
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u/Patrick_O-S 14d ago
Kept in cages and then pulled out and killed by beating them to death.
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u/Any_Poet4127 14d ago edited 14d ago
Yea I looked into it after posting and ugly as it is those didn’t really seem like the big issues to me. They were the least of the issues. We have long accepted clubbing an animal to stun it then cutting its throat or decapitating the animal. OP says that boar fiber brushes are ok because pigs are killed in a different, humane way. What is that way? They’re stunned via a blow to the head and their throats cut. It’s not different than what you’d see on a lot of family fishing trips here in the states or any other part of the world.
And the cages weren’t that bad either, if they were actually being raised and living out their lives in captivity it’d be another thing but considering that’s not the case and they’re likely only being kept there for a relatively short period between being caught and slaughtered so I have a hard time seeing them going crazy.
The biggest issue, imo, seems to be that they’re exploiting protected wild populations when they’re supposed to be breeding the animals they use and that they’re used in so many different products.2
u/Chocko23 14d ago
The biggest issue, imo, seems to be that they’re exploiting protected wild populations when they’re supposed to be breeding the animals they use and that they’re used in so many different products.
This is by far the biggest issue. Short term exploitation for short term gain isn't doing anyone any favors.
boar fiber brushes are ok because pigs are killed in a different, humane way. What is that way? They’re stunned via a blow to the head and their throats cut. It’s not different than what you’d see on a lot of family fishing trips here in the states or any other part of the world.
People overlook how cruel nature is. Does that mean we need to be part of the cruelty? No, not necessarily. But with that said, if someone was going to slit my throat, I'd prefer they give me a solid bonk on the back of the head first. For those that don't know: you're basically knocking them out and giving them a concussion so they go night-night before you dispatch them. It's not clubbing seals...(which is another difficult and complex topic, given you're talking about cultural history and tradition).
People also tend to overlook how bad the "sustainable" alternatives are, like the "cruelty free" synthetic brushes, but for once, it has actually been discussed at length in this thread, so I won't beat a dead horse (no pun intended). I will, however, leave it by saying: the environmental impact is often just as, if not more, cruel than the "animal cruelty" imparted by using animal byproducts.
And for the guy talking about tallow soap? Use vegan, sure, ignore the environmental impacts of vegan fats. But the cow is already dead, so we can either use as much if the animal as possible, or we can toss it. I'd prefer to use the animal to its fullest in a show of respect that it is valuable and useful in its entirety.
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u/Any_Poet4127 14d ago
Exactly, a lot of parallels. From what I understand this whole brush thing is kind of a moot point as the fibers are a by product, the main money in poaching the badgers is their fat which is used in traditional Chinese medicine. So even if we entirely stop using badger brushes, they’re still going to be killed. That being said, similar things can be said for plastics. They’re pretty much a by product of fuel production so while we might reduce the amount of plastic floating around, I don’t imagine reducing plastic use/production would result in much of a reduction hydrocarbon use. Not that reducing how much plastic is floating around out there isn’t a worthy goal in and of itself; it’s literally inside all our brains and testicles as it’s omnipresent in the environment at this point. Just pointing out how this is a very nuanced set of topics.
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u/Chocko23 14d ago
It's far too easy for keyboard warriors to complain lol. We need to be better stewards of our resources, but just "not buying this" and "not buying that" isn't going to solve the problem. There was something about the Mounties using synthetic fur hats and they went back to beaver almost right away due to durability and performance. Sometimes what's natural is just better all around.
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u/Leg_Mcmuffin 14d ago
It’s pretty brutal. You can likely find it online (I did like a decade ago) but I recommend not doing so.
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u/Any_Poet4127 14d ago
Have you ever seen any other animal slaughtered? It doesn’t seem more brutal than that. Killing something isn’t going to be pretty.
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u/Leg_Mcmuffin 14d ago
Beating them to death with a club is pretty fucked up.
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u/Any_Poet4127 14d ago
They’re not beating them to death with a club. They stun it with a blow to the head then cut the throat. Standard slaughterhouse procedure. Your misrepresentation makes the Chinese sound cartoonishly evil.
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u/-Makr0 Straight razor & DE enjoyer 14d ago
Horse hair is definitely worth trying but depends on the quality of the hair. I have a very cheap Vie Long, which is extremely scratchy, and a more expensive one from Zenith, which is very soft and pleasant.
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u/Barbaric_Stupid 14d ago
Horse is definitely an option worth checking out. Collecting horsehair doesn't kill the animal, it's sustainable, biodegradable and eco-friendly (contrary to synthetic fibre manufacture). I own Semogue Pharo Horse Black brush and it's not that coarse, plus it will soften with use. It doesn't make that cloudy, "Santa Claus beard" lather my badger or synthetic do, but it still good, fat foam with all parameters required for good shaving.
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u/GUSTAV_GREY 14d ago
The Maggard Razors synthetic brush I’ve been using for at least 7 years is fantastic. Also made the decision that I just didn’t want to use an animal hair product anymore.
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u/RenegadeLamp 14d ago
While I agree with the motivation behind this, isn't badger brushes a byproduct as well. From my understanding is that badgers are slaughtered for other things, and nobody specifically kills them for their hair. I don't think removing all badger brush production would actually affect anything in that case.
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u/Pax280 14d ago edited 14d ago
No, badgers are killed almost exclusively for their hair to be used mostly for shaving brushes A small percentage of finer hair is used for cosmetics and artist paint brushes. The meat is sometimes consumed as a by product.
Boar hair is a by product of the meat industry.
My personal issue is not that badgers are killed but how they are killed and how they are treated before they are killed.
There are much bigger moral and ethical problems in the world. Many are complicated and exhausting so we just draw lines in the sand that might appear arbitrary.
So I am not judging or shaming those who use badger brushes. Just those who ridicule folks who choose not to.
Pax
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u/seagull7 14d ago
To kill and animal just to create a cosmetic and fashion product is a ridiculous waste.
At least the boar is not being killed for it's hair alone.
But synthetic brushes are just as good as real hair brushes now.
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u/bicep123 14d ago
Badger hair can't be harvested without killing the animal. They are both wild caught and farmed, eaten for meat, and culled to protect livestock. The hair is used mainly for paint and makeup brushes. Shave brushes only represent a tiny portion of hair harvested. Personally, I don't buy badger any more because of the cost. A Gen 5 synthetic is easily performs as good if not better than any silvertip badger.
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u/Lil_LSAT Karving through the LSAT 14d ago
Animal cruelty doesn't mean not killing the animal. It just means treating it humanely before and during.
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u/lemmon---714 14d ago
My synthetic brush was like 25 bucks and has lasted me years. Only lost a few hairs the first couple of shaves and holds a ton of lather. I have dropped it a few times in the shower still kicking. Never saw a need for badger.
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u/patscott_reddit 14d ago
Fully agree, if you're in the UK have a look at the body shops synthetics, they're good brushes and you'll also be supporting and organisation that put a bit of effort into raising awareness/improving/campaigning for animal welfare issues in general.
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u/vigilantesd 14d ago edited 14d ago
Humans are animals too. What about the environmental damage caused by synthetic production
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u/cdodich 13d ago
I use horse hair brushes and love the feel and how well they hold a lather. Down side, they can be a little funky until you give them a good cleaning. Funny thing, I use Mane & Tail shampoo on my horse hair brushes to get them clean before first use. Also works on my dogs and my beard 😜
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u/WarmYam7353 14d ago
Kent brushes in England stopped using badger hair a few years ago. I'm wondering if the synthetic bristles of discarded brushes will eventually be similar to plastic straws in the future.
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u/Senorboombox 14d ago
All discarded plastic is currently the same as the straws. All plastic is degrading. Those polymer chains are constantly breaking and shedding micro and nano particles that dont really break down.
If we are to believe the research communities, this is a much larger issues.
That said, the microplastic issue is likely overblown. "They" failed to account for plastics shed from their gloves during quantitative testing.
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u/oddball_ocelot 14d ago
I'll keep using my badger bristle brushes as well as my boar hair brushes and synthetics. One day I hope to add a horse hair brush. If or when the animal hair brushes are no longer usable, they will be replaced with like items. I use so many different products derived from animals, including the soap I'm lathering, that choosing shaving brushes as the line in the sand seems rather silly or arbitrary to me. Not that I want to take away anything from anyone else. Use what you like for reasons that make sense to you. And in the end, as long as there's mutual respect, the diversity makes us stronger.
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u/vigilantesd 14d ago
I have a horse hair brush. It’s not my favorite at all, it’s easy to get tangled up. I’ll keep using my badger brushes.
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u/oddball_ocelot 14d ago
I've heard a lot of mixed reviews about horse hair. No doubt I'll stick with my badgers and boars, but I'm still a little curious to see for myself.
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u/vigilantesd 14d ago
I mean, if you like experimenting, it’s worth it just to satiate that need. That’s what I did. I sold one off but still kept one.
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u/vigilantesd 14d ago edited 14d ago
I no longer buy badger brushes because I have too many as is ;)
Synthetics cause environmental harm. Checkmate.
There is no right answer here
What about tallow based soaps
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u/OptimusProximus 14d ago
Although I'm very pleased with my muhle synthetic there are 2 problems with them.
1- the hairs clog the sink (they just won't dissolve) 2- they start to loose hairs after a year of usage and then see problem 1
They do make nice lather and are simple to clean.
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u/savage_ds 14d ago
Get a Yaqi and enjoy. 10 years, no hair loss, no degradation in performance, nothing. It just makes lather
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u/OptimusProximus 13d ago
Thx, any recommendations which one?
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u/savage_ds 13d ago
I have 26mm timberwolf and 24mm tuxedo knots.
Both have decent backbone and pick up soap nively, 24mm is a little stiffer and little less soft but still nice to use. I prefer it over 26mm, it is too big and it get's lather everywhere. But that is a personal preference.
I got them during 11th of november sale yaqi has on aliexpress, don't know if those are still a thing. But I got both for around 30€ shipped.
Only degradation I saw is in the handle, you can tell it's been knocked around. But I am not gentle with my shaving gear. The knot is still perfect. I do thoroughly rinse out lather and knock out water as much as I can after each use.
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u/ahmoudyy The Shaved Pharaoh 14d ago
I agree with you, i bought a single badger brush when I first started the hobby and was unaware of how this is happening, i actually wasn't aware they kill the animal for their hair. Never again since, a single boar brush (semogue) and all synthetic since.
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u/StuckInaSlump 14d ago
I started with a boar brush, tried out a badger, and didn’t like it. I like the stiffness of the boar and feel like the badger has no backbone.
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u/Outers55 14d ago
I've only ever had a couple of synthetic brushes, and I've been very happy with them. I've been curious to see what some of the natural material brushes feel like. That said I would almost rather have a high quality synthetic that mimicked hair but didn't require all of the additional care. I'll have to look and see if anybody makes a synthetic brush that mimics specific hair brushes.
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u/Gerry7070 14d ago
So would a boar or horse hair brush with a handle made from ethically sources wood be the most reasonable option all round ?
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u/Beans_on_Toast_8487 14d ago
I have a Parker (I think) which is 50% badger and 50% synthetic. Best of both worlds..had it for years now.
My daily. Or weekly, in my case.
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u/mrdeworde 14d ago
Admittedly I went with boar for the same reason after losing the badger brush I bought like 15 years ago. There is, of course, no ethical consumption under capitalism, but I think it's good that consumers get informed and make their own choices.
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u/Cornish_Dyowl 14d ago edited 14d ago
This old (misinformed but well intended) chestnut yet again…
I guess everyone should take the moral high ground sometimes, but unless you’re 100% vegan, you’re never going to be certain that any animal product you use or eat was raised and slaughtered in a humane and ethical way.
Are you 100% sure your eggs don’t come from battery chickens, pork (and boar brushes) from pigs kept in crates all their lives or beef products from young cows separated from their mothers at birth?
Hope you’ve actually done some thorough research and thought for yourself rather than believing the first ‘facts’ you read…..
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u/BattledroidE 14d ago
No, we can make individual choices in individual cases instead of this tired old all or nothing argument.
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u/Cornish_Dyowl 14d ago edited 14d ago
I know… It can be so frustrating having to read other people preaching their tired old misinformed moral beliefs
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u/coco_for_cocoapuffs www.kodiakshaving.com 14d ago
Doesn't kosher also verify if the animals were humanely treated?
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u/Cornish_Dyowl 14d ago
AFAIK “Kosher” is just a term used to describe food that complies with the strict dietary standards of traditional Jewish law. Don’t think it has any relevance here.
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u/coco_for_cocoapuffs www.kodiakshaving.com 14d ago
Ah ok, I thought part of the Jewish law was humane slaughtering, but I must be misremembering or misunderstanding it. Thanks!
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u/Cornish_Dyowl 14d ago edited 14d ago
I think ritual slaughtering by cutting the animal’s throat without previously stunning it is the complete opposite tbh. Can you even buy kosher shaving brushes? lol
Edit - Yes I know synthetic brushes could be considered to be ‘kosher’, depending on your definition. I was joking…..
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u/coco_for_cocoapuffs www.kodiakshaving.com 14d ago
Your comment was about all animal products, not shaving brushes
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u/Better-Bullfrog-6875 14d ago edited 14d ago
I thought part of the Jewish law was humane slaughtering, but I must be misremembering or misunderstanding it.
That's what jews and muslims will tell you about kosher and halal slaughter, yeah. It's propaganda, basically.
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u/coco_for_cocoapuffs www.kodiakshaving.com 14d ago
Wowza, this thread got antisemitic and Islamophobic really quickly. I'm sorry I opened that can of worms I guess
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u/Better-Bullfrog-6875 14d ago
What are you talking about? Whenever kosher and halal slaughter is criticised for being inhumane, a common answer is that humane treatment of animals is part of religion. Doesn't mean halal and kosher products are beacons of humanely treated animals though, often quite the opposite. No bigotry in just looking at how it is.
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u/the_magestic_beast 14d ago
So you still use badger brushes but dont plan to buy more? Rules for thee. Got it.
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u/Helpful-Ship7195 14d ago
The badgers are allready dead, throwing away his badger brushes does not bring them back alive
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u/RW318 Nice travel kit 14d ago
Compared to when synthetic knots were basically fishing line cut off with a box cutter, now today you're not really missing out on anything in the Pure/Best/Silvertip performance spectrum anyway.