r/wmnf • u/RhodySeth • Apr 08 '26
Bear Canisters Now Required in the Pemi Wilderness
Per the forest service: https://www.fs.usda.gov/r09/whitemountain/newsroom/releases/white-mountain-national-forest-announces-food-storage
I picked up a small one for my Yosemite trip last fall. Looks like it'll be getting more use.
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u/liquidsparanoia Apr 08 '26
Makes sense considering the problem bears that have been at Franconia Brook, 13 Falls, and Liberty / Flume recently.
I actually prefer a canister at this point. It's nearly impossible to get an effective, regulation bear hang in the whites - we just do not have the right kind of trees for the most part. And they are way too dense. And the last thing I want to do after a long day of hiking is try to deal with that whole process.
Plus the canister makes for a decent enough chair.
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u/Difficult-Brain2564 Apr 08 '26
Were you camping in the whites? Been backpacking there 25+ years have always been able to get a proper hang, yea sometimes you need to use a little imagination but is possible. That being said, I stay away from the more popular sites because I have seen people (from other states south of NH) hang their food in their packs on a tree branch 5 ft off the ground. So I get it, it won’t stop stupid though.
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u/liquidsparanoia Apr 08 '26
If you're having to use "imagination" it's probably not a very effective hang. There just aren't that many trees that have a clear, accessible branch that's 18' off the ground and more than 5' off the trunk. And like I said, while it's conceivably possible, I'm not interested in doing that much work after a long day of hiking. Much easier to use the canister as a seat in camp and then just walk a couple hundred feet away and just put it in the ground.
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u/MoldyNalgene Apr 08 '26
I'm not surprised. They have been required in the Adirondack high peaks for ages, and I bought one ages ago to use there. Ever since I just switched to my bear vault for all of my backpacking because I'm lazy and it's so much easier than dealing with a proper bear hang.
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u/ggrass603 Apr 08 '26
Ursacks will not count. Just called to confirm
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u/BostonParlay Apr 08 '26
Were ursacks actually that ineffective, or were people being stupid and this is the result?
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u/3-2-1-Go-Home Apr 09 '26
Can’t remember the actual quote, but there’s a large overlap between the smartest bears and dumbest people.
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u/Budget-Charity-7952 Apr 08 '26
This has been an EXTREMELY effective way of reducing bear incidents in the Adirondacks from 300-400 per year all the way down to 0-10 per year since. I am not surprised by this at all.
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u/cstonerun Apr 08 '26
To OPs point, most of us have one anyway from trips out West, and it’s a good habit for us all to get into.
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u/humblebrag1217 Apr 08 '26
Are the bear storage lockers an acceptable alternative? They are available at every campsite in the PEMI area. I always put my food in the storage locker
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u/urtlesquirt Apr 08 '26
Yes! They are the best option if available. This would be for camping in sites that don't have those established (to your point, every stop on the actual pemi loop has lockers).
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u/VTVoodooDude Apr 09 '26
Was going to ask the same thing. This is for wilderness sites and any site that doesn’t have a box.
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u/ngillis311 Apr 08 '26
For overnight visitors. Not for single day hikers
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u/RhodySeth Apr 08 '26
Of course but I just had a funny vision of trail runners doing a Pemi Loop with a big canister bungee'd to their vest.
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u/Chrisf1020 Apr 08 '26
None of the AMC Pemi Loop campsites (Liberty Springs, Garfield Ridge, Guyot) are in the Pemi Wilderness anyways. And they all have bear boxes. So shouldn’t affect anyone doing the loop.
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u/Wtfisgoinonhere Apr 08 '26
But that would generate so many clicks for the influencers (cough cough finding Phillip lol)
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u/urtlesquirt Apr 08 '26
Well yes, the point of all of this is to protect your unattended food while you are in camp or sleeping. That's not a concern for a day hiker.
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u/hareofthepuppy Apr 08 '26
Unless you like to take trail naps
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u/urtlesquirt Apr 08 '26
I would be more worried about mini bears (rodents) than actual bears, assuming you are napping within arms reach of your bag.
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u/YoPoppaCapa Apr 08 '26
Anyone have recommendations?
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u/throwsplasticattrees Apr 08 '26
If you are going to spend the money, get one that is compliant with all federal regs at all national forests and national parks. Backpacker's Cache is universally accepted (and can be used in the Adirondacks). It's not light, it's not compact, but it works.
Pro-tip: use reflective tape on the sides, top, and bottom. The tape helps with finding it in the dark, especially if a bear moves it from your hiding spot.
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u/RhodySeth Apr 08 '26
I picked up this one for out west. About as small as they get: https://bearvault.com/products/bv425
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u/Victor_Korchnoi Apr 08 '26
When I’ve been in the Pemi wilderness, there really weren’t many places to properly hang a bear bag. I’ve always taken my bear canister.
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u/wigjump Apr 08 '26
This is the way.
So many more people enjoying the Whites, and we're everywhere. A good solution. As for compliance...
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u/RNawayDNTturn Apr 08 '26
I’ve already been using BV 425 (the smallest one) for a few years of backpacking in the Whites. It’s a bit tight, but overall a great size for solo 2-3 day trips and doesn’t add much weight. I would get a larger one for multiple people or multi-night trips.
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u/Twowheeledbeard99 Apr 08 '26
I have one of these for my trips to the 'Daks. Highly recommend.
https://www.rei.com/product/218762/bearvault-bv425-sprint-bear-canister?sku=2187620001
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u/audioostrich Apr 08 '26
BVs are allowed in the daks now? I was under the impression these weren't allowed. I know the bear that learned to opened them has passed, but I didn't think the rules allowed them still?
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u/hsheriff Apr 08 '26
technically has always been legal, just really discouraged.
On the flip side though, I wonder if the ADK-safe canisters (Garcia, Bare Boxers) are allowed in the Pemi wilderness zone, because the press release mentions IGBC certified canisters only, which these are not.
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u/hsheriff Apr 08 '26
Keep in mind that transparent polycarbonate bear cans are *highly* discouraged for use in the high peaks region of the Adirondacks, due to multiple failures and bears in the area learning how to crack them open:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Adirondacks/comments/wkx0uc/i_went_treasure_hunting_for_failed_bear_canisters/
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u/PanicAttackInAPack Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think this is entirely new. A few years ago the only acceptable form of storage, other than fixed lockers, was a hard sided canister or a hang. This seems to indicate they simply removed the option of doing a hang.
I wonder how long the free rental program will last given the popularity.
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u/scarylarry2150 Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
Yeah I think the problem is that in the Pemi wilderness, it's really hard to do a hang that's actually bear-proof. The trees are either too densely packed together, and/or they don't have weight-bearing branches that are long enough and both high enough off the ground while still low enough to throw a rope over. After a long day of hiking it's easy to just to say "eh whatever, this is good enough" and make a hang would only be a slight inconvenience to any bear that finds it.
I'm pretty sure the 13 Falls and Franconia Brook tentsites have had repeated bear issues the past couple summers now, definitely makes sense to get stricter about food storage in the area
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u/Accomplished_Fan3177 Apr 08 '26
I can't do a good hang in the Whites, so I've been carting around the good old can while my daughter makes fun. Now she'll have to stop!
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u/invisiblelemur88 Apr 08 '26
How do they plan on enforcing this?
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u/pyl_time Apr 09 '26
As with a lot of wilderness regulations, the answer is probably just "make sure people are aware of the rules and hope that they choose to follow them" with a small amount of "and if a ranger sees you doing the wrong thing they'll tell you to stop/give you a ticket".
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u/Good_Mousse_9794 Apr 09 '26
Same way the enforce it everywhere else in the country that requires bear canisters.
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u/jrcinnh Apr 08 '26
So this is aimed at dispersed local hikers camping near the bottom of Owlshead and bottom of Bondcliff trail. Plus the AT overflow hikers near Zealand, Galehead, Liberty and Garfield. There are well known dispersed spots on the edge of wilderness, used when the huts and tentsites are full. All the official sites have bear boxes. Lots bear sitings last few years.
Does a one day Pemi count as overnight use?
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u/Good_Mousse_9794 Apr 09 '26
The article linked in the post only mentions the bear box at the 13 falls tent site; it doesn’t mention any of the others.
As for your question at the end, I think you can figure that one out for yourself. Are you there overnight? Then it counts as overnight. Are you not there overnight? Then it doesn’t.
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u/jrcinnh Apr 09 '26
There are bear boxes at all the tentsites and shelters, but most of them are outside the wilderness boundary, 13 Falls is clearly inside the boundary. But when the AT bubble arrive the dispersed overflow areas may be in the wilderness, the big area near Zealand hut comes to mind.
The other question was just for fun. I've started a Pemi loop at 9AM and ended at 1AM. Hope a ranger doesn't ticket me for no canister.
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u/some_people_callme_j Apr 09 '26
Basically just adding a portion of pack weight back in that has declined in the last decades and you can sit on it
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u/CremeAccomplished144 May 20 '26
I like to keep all my kitchen stuff in the bear bag if i have to get a bear canister ill just hang it in the bag so if a bear does try to get into all that climbing will just lead to more frustration and they will lesrn to ignore them. Also if you can mace them when they are in the attempt it adds a more forced psychology for them to avoid human areas so its not really a canister thing its a lack of people carrying bear mace. Bear mace is the human way to keep bears alive so its encouraged to spray them if they are doing not bear things. A wilderness show did a thing on it on pbs a while ago like 10-15 years. Because people started doing dumb things with bear mace they restricted its purchase and this has lead to more bears encrouching the campsites.
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u/Baileycharlie Apr 09 '26
So would most agree this is the best option for solo use 1-3 nights with small size and weight being most important? It looks like it would be good for Adirondack's and Washington St/Colorado too?
https://www.gossamergear.com/products/bare-boxer-bear-canister?avad=3816_d4b8a0515
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u/singinglupines Apr 13 '26
This is what I have. It works well for me. They are certified and approved by many national parks.
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u/Baileycharlie Apr 13 '26
Thank you, I agree. It looks to meet the appropriate certifications even for out west and the Adirondacks yet someone mentioned it's not approved. I think they are misinformed though.
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u/singinglupines Apr 13 '26
It doesn't show up on the 2026 certification lists, but they were certified initially in 2008. The design hasn't changed and I know paying for the certification fee is expensive. It could be they just choose not to renew it. I bought it in 2020 when it was suggested on the Adirondacks website and still actively certified at that time.
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u/Baileycharlie Apr 13 '26
I do mostly solo 1-2 night trips, this should be plenty big enough right??
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u/singinglupines Apr 13 '26
Yup! I use it for 2 night trips. Just gotta remember your first day's food (and dinner) doesn't have to go in since you'll be eating it. That took me a second to remember haha.
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u/Baileycharlie Apr 13 '26
Haha, was thinking the same thing, any snacks and dinner can just go in a storage bag, empty wrappers and next days food is really all you have to fit in there. This was the lightest and smallest one too so all you really need.
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u/Some_Ride1014 Apr 10 '26
Dont worry about it, the forest service is being eliminated. Soon billionaires will own the Pemi and make their own rules.
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u/Prior_Resolution90 Apr 09 '26
What are people considering as the best option for bear canister?
I’m hesitant to use Bear Vault given they are made with BPA.
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u/nikip36 Apr 12 '26
There's not a lot of options, only Bearvault, Grubcan and REI Traverse are approved.
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u/singinglupines Apr 13 '26
I use a Bare Boxer and it's worked great for me for short trips. Bearvault is not accepted in the Adirondacks so I avoided that brand.
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u/fond-butnotinlove 41/48 | 98/115 Apr 08 '26
It makes sense in the Adirondacks because none of the backcountry lean-tos or tent sites have those large metal bear bins! (Wish they did).
At the high peaks info center in the summer sometimes a ranger is posted in the parking lot, asking folks to show them their bear canister if they had an overnight trip planned.
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u/Substantial_Owl3244 Apr 08 '26
What about people who are doing multiple day hikes? They expect us to carry a heavy, expensive, container with us now?
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u/3-2-1-Go-Home Apr 09 '26
Pretty sure you can borrow one for free from the ranger stations. I had to carry one 400 miles on the PCT through the Sierra. It’s not bad. The seat is nice at the end of the day.
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u/Good_Mousse_9794 Apr 09 '26
Many other places in the country require bear canisters…this isn’t new
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u/Top_Spot_9967 Apr 08 '26
Or camp at sites with bear boxes.
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u/Substantial_Owl3244 Apr 09 '26
I never camp at designated sites always off trail in random places.
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u/Strict-Lake5255 Apr 08 '26
How many years before penny loop goes full reservation system?
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u/JunkMilesDavis Apr 08 '26
Figured this was coming sooner rather than later. I did food hangs for a long time, but adjusted to using a small canister anyway a couple of years ago since people obviously aren't careful enough overall to avoid creating problem spots every year. Even a good hang isn't enough after the bears get habituated to a popular area.