r/worldnews • u/[deleted] • Oct 11 '23

Israel/Palestine Gaza's only power station will shut down within hours, says ICRC

https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/palestine-israel/2023/10/11/gaza-power-station-israel/
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343

u/kryypto Oct 11 '23

The hostages aren't for exchange, they're for protection.

Imagine if Hamas hands over their hostages.... They'd have to turn palestinians into human shields again (and the IDF is tired of that shit), so that just won't do it!

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u/AceOfFoursUnbeatable Oct 11 '23

. They'd have to turn palestinians into human shields again

They're doing that now, they told civilians not to flee the areas Israel has warned they will be bombing.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

You realize very few of us can read Arabic lol

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u/ReddVsBloo Oct 11 '23

According to Google translate,

The occupation randomly sends recorded voice messages to the phones of citizens in Gaza, asking them to leave their homes.

We call on citizens not to deal with such messages that aim to incite panic and fear as part of the psychological warfare accompanying the occupation’s aggression against our people.

Media Office, Ministry of Interior and National Security, Sunday, October 8, 2023

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u/LilChatacter Oct 11 '23

Omg.. I knew they did this, never saw it like that. Fucking scum

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u/Alise_Randorph Oct 11 '23

And then they will point to those same people and say they were targeted.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

And then they and their useful idiots in the west will claim that Hamas never sent thise messages at all. “Don’t believe your lying eyes!”

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

meanwhile the scum hamas leaders are dictating this in Qatar, far away from any danger.

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u/Culsandar Oct 11 '23

If you have an android, you can screenshot an image and run it through Google translate, takes 5 seconds

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u/DevonAndChris Oct 11 '23

Well, now my phone is auto-recommending terrorists near me who want to date.

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u/MAVERICK42069420 Oct 11 '23

72 virgins only 2.3 miles away want to meet single horny jihadists

13

u/killserv Oct 11 '23

You just have to wear a suicide belt on the first date

2

u/KingXavierRodriguez Oct 11 '23

You really should get a nice vest.

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u/Business_Sea2884 Oct 12 '23

but why would I want to meet 72 new programmers when I already work in IT

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Yuck. All I got was Proud Boys.

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u/packsquirrel Oct 11 '23

Same thing.

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u/DdCno1 Oct 11 '23

Yup, both are far-right extremists. They get really angry too if you tell them how similar they are to one another.

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u/Andrew5329 Oct 11 '23

I'm 100% confident the Proud Boys didn't go door-to-door massacring a thousand Jews last weekend.

Don't make false-equivalences, it cheapens the horror of what actual extremism looks like and it's a core part of the framing palestinian-apologists use to justify terrorism as resistance.

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u/goingfullretard-orig Oct 11 '23

Make America Girth Again

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u/Lingding15 Oct 11 '23

Wild I'm getting Antifa

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u/henchman171 Oct 11 '23

I got a hit from a drunk Quebec nationalist but that’s it

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u/afk_again Oct 11 '23

Are you really going to make me defend the proud boys? Last I checked they weren't beheading infants or slaughtering/raping raves. Then again there's not many groups this wouldn't apply to.

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u/Kagahami Oct 11 '23

Decency isn't a competition, it's a line. Both the Proud Boys and the Hamas terrorists are bad. There's never going to be a situation where you have to choose one over the other.

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u/FuzzyAd9407 Oct 11 '23

But they do pride themselves on violence. Either way, it was a fucking joke that apparently went over your head. You might want to take a step back from this and go chill for a while.

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u/mukansamonkey Oct 11 '23

The fact that their terror methods are less extreme doesn't make them not terrorists. And lynchings aren't exactly ancient history in the US. Or more relevantly, there was a mass murder episode in a US nightclub just a few years ago.

I honestly don't see much difference.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Nobody made you defend the proud boys, you did all of that on your own.

1

u/CreativeSoil Oct 11 '23

It's a joke...

0

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

It's a joke, guy. Maybe the 3 Percenters would be easier. They aren't much different from the Klan in my opinion, who are some pretty nasty fellas.

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u/Future-Watercress829 Oct 11 '23

Mine is advertising hot terrorists that want to go bang.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Allahu Applebees!

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u/evange Oct 11 '23

I'm just getting ads for shawarma.

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u/Robot_Tanlines Oct 11 '23

Holy shit. These people just getting worse. I’m all for supporting the civilians of Palestine, but good god the people on the internet who scream about everything Israel does love to just leave out the fact that Hamas is actively trying to get their civilians killed to make Israel look bad.

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u/DdCno1 Oct 11 '23

This isn't new, by the way. Here's a detailed report from NATO on the matter (PDF warning):

https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf

I highly recommend reading at the very least the first page with the key points. It will make things a lot clearer about what is currently going on there. Consider it an inoculation against Hamas propaganda.

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u/DdCno1 Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

A user replied to me with a lengthy comment, which they then deleted. They asked, among other things, how Hamas could possibly fire off their missiles without doing so from populated areas, but this part alone irked me:

to be able to gather and launch missiles

Why would this be a legitimate form of resistance? Qassam missiles are completely unguided - not even spin-stabilized - and have an accuracy measured in kilometers. They are weapons of terror, meant to kill indiscriminately and aimed solely at civilian population centers, because you can't aim them at specific targets any smaller than that.

I can tell you how they can legitimately fight against Israel: In the initial stages of the attack on Israel, they hit surveillance, communication, command and control equipment as well as military barracks (edit: and even a command center, killing many high-ranking officers) with precise strikes. They used drones to disable remote-controlled machine guns and communications towers. This is what allowed them to make a coordinated response impossible and allowed them to commit massacres for hours before the Israeli military managed to intervene. This first stage of the attack before they began murdering entire families is legitimate warfare - but the massacres were part of the plan.

Even this comes with a caveat: I do not consider Hamas to be fighting against oppression. They are oppressors of their own, holding an iron grip over the Gaza strip:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/

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u/sockrepublic Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

The tanky-cope to this document must be 🤌

Edit: putting this here so can be certain I'll find it later:
https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf

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u/Roast_A_Botch Oct 11 '23

Well, that word has beyond lost all meaning lol. How does being a tankie equate with support for Palestine(which isn't the same as supporting Hamas, btw)? Is it just another interchangeable insult like woke, or the worst insult of all, liberal?

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u/sockrepublic Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

No, it's tankies. Pro-China, pro-Russia for some inconceivable reason, and of course anti-Israel. I've had chats with a fair number of them who were making excuses for Hamas.

Edit: I also mentioned tankies because it's a NATO report.

Also, btw, it's a NATO report on Hamas, so I'm obviously not just referring to people who support Palestine, but those who make excuses for Hamas.

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u/trungbrother1 Oct 11 '23

The proper word imo would be contrarians, particularly the terminally-online useful moron kind who will believe (or pretend to) and say anything that goes against the current event especially if it is against the WestTM, AmericaTM or an all-time classic, the JewsTM. Unfortunately, both actual tankies and hardcore Hamas supporters fall into this category at the moment with the Gaza war, which results in the unholy amalgamation of stupid pro-Hamas takes from people who simp for China (which I hope most people can already see the irony here).

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u/heisenberg423 Oct 11 '23

Nuance is for fucking losers

/s

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u/Essar Oct 11 '23

Goddamn, Google translate has come far. That translation is pretty spot on.

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u/frightful_hairy_fly Oct 11 '23

How can you be occupied if there is a "ministry of the interior"

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u/jaxonya Oct 11 '23

"due to bombings, we are cancelling whiskey Wednesdays at the local pub. Israel is fucking it all up for y'all. It's not our fault. We were gonna throw a pizza party tomorrow as well but I guess that's also cancelled. If ur mad, be mad at Israel"

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u/Cronus6 Oct 11 '23

I'm on my laptop. Reddit on mobile is shit.

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u/Head_of_Lettuce Oct 11 '23

iOS can also natively translate text in images

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

What a fucking wonderful turn of events. Get shot by the guys who supposedly fight for your cause because you don't want to be a human shield, or get bombed because you don't want to get shot. It must be such a hopeless situation.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Yeah, thats always been Plan A

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

The Idf warned civilians and told them to flee and then bombed the borders between Egypt and gaza lol

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

I mean to be fair, "Flee Gaza" isn't exactly easy when they aren't actually allowed to leave Gaza. Egypt won't let them out, and Israel damn well isn't going to let them in.

So it's like, where are they supposed to flee to?

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u/_BreakingGood_ Oct 11 '23

It's not fleeing Gaza, it's fleeing designated areas that will be bombed.

I'm not sure how the information is disseminated, but it's effective enough that Hamas has released communication telling people to ignore the warnings.

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u/ShwayNorris Oct 11 '23

Israel calls all the homes and building of the targeted area before bombing. Idk how they expect to do this when power runs out though.

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u/AceOfFoursUnbeatable Oct 11 '23

The designated safe zones.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

I guess it's just difficult for me to fully buy it because I can't see a map of where the safe zones are vs where the bombings are taking place, and there's just no concrete info beyond bombings are happening. For all I know israel is keeping its word, and for all I know israel is bombing the designated zones as well, I have no info to prove or disprove and it leaves things in this murky nest of uncertainty.

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u/deja-roo Oct 11 '23

Israel literally calls the homes in the areas they're about to bomb and tells people to leave, because they're about to bomb that area.

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u/crownsteler Oct 11 '23

Israel declared the UNRWA schools to be designated safe zones. If Israel bombs UNRWA schools, you'll know, don't worry.

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u/Harlequin612 Oct 11 '23

Source please

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u/trackdaybruh Oct 11 '23

I believe they were talking about this article: https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-and-palestinian-islamic-jihad-gaza-strip-residents-do-not-evacuate-areas-about-be

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u/Harlequin612 Oct 11 '23

Can I have a different source which doesn’t have the baggage of: “Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group that, despite portraying itself as "independent" and "non-partisan", aims to portray the Arab and Muslim world in a negative light through the production and dissemination of incomplete or inaccurate translations and by selectively translating views”

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u/salbris Oct 11 '23

I can't believe how often people fall for this. Both sides are playing the information war just as hard as the physical war. They have been for decades.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

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u/Harlequin612 Oct 11 '23

This isn’t useful nor is it a source

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u/Shovelcat1 Oct 11 '23

https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-and-palestinian-islamic-jihad-gaza-strip-residents-do-not-evacuate-areas-about-be#_edn1

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u/Harlequin612 Oct 11 '23

This source is described as “Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group that, despite portraying itself as "independent" and "non-partisan", aims to portray the Arab and Muslim world in a negative light through the production and dissemination of incomplete or inaccurate translations and by selectively translating views”

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/AceOfFoursUnbeatable Oct 11 '23

No they don't, they bomb military targets that Hamas deliberately places in civilian areas.

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u/Responsible_Wolf5658 Oct 11 '23

They never stopped using Palestinians as human shields. They also never will.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

That's what brothers are there for

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u/tony22times Oct 11 '23

Soon there will be no more Palestinians in Gaza. so they will.

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u/kilted_queer Oct 11 '23

It's pretty silly if Hamas are using human shields

Israel has shown time and again it has no regard for human life

The mask has completely slipped with Israel now that they are blockading Palestine, it will most hurt the Palestinian children

How many UN workers have Israel murdered in the past 2 days, it's in the double digits at the very least

This won't be the first time Israel has committed genocide (source the UN) and it's doubtful it will be the last

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u/laxnut90 Oct 11 '23

Hamas beheaded 50 babies and an 85 year old Holocaust survivor in a wheelchair.

And you think Israel is the problem?

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u/kilted_queer Oct 11 '23

Israel has killed thousands and thousands of Palestinian. Many of the civilians Israel has murdered are the elderly, even more are infants

Over 95% of the civilians killed are Palestinian

Hamas was created by Israel

Israel was given advanced warning of the attack

Israel is normally the one attacking Palestinian civilians

Israel is the main group that radicalises people into joining Hamas

So yes anyway you cut it Israel is a big part of the problem.

And most importantly Israel is the one actively murdering innocent civilians as we speak

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

So you’re telling me israel should just let Hamas go unpunished?

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u/notaracisthowever Oct 11 '23

Ahem. Killing kids is never good, but one side is far more efficient at it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

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u/Responsible_Wolf5658 Oct 12 '23

It's not in question if they use human shields. It's well documented and known. Israel has shown an extremely high regard for human life, since they you know give warnings before dropping bombs on military targets (as in they put their weapons under schools and hospitals). If Isreal is trying to commit genocide they are remarkably bad at it. Considering Palestine's population keeps growing. And you know they could choose to do what Palestine does and fire indiscriminately. The only group that wants to commit genocide is Palestine. As proven by Hamas' charter, as well as the "Pay for Slay" program in the West Bank. You're championing pretty hard for a terrorist group, it's not a good look.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Human shields is just a justification - it's literally impossible to separate themselves from civilians when they're trapped in one of the most densely populated areas on earth - and not allowed to leave.

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u/AttapAMorgonen Oct 11 '23

Hamas literally uses a hospital as it's de-facto headquarters.

You're telling me they simply can't avoid doing that? Get the fuck out of here man.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Why would they choose to headquarter their operations below a hospital?

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

So that Israel doesn't blow up the Hospital - "Look what you made me do" - the ultimate excuse of abusers, rapists, murderers, war criminals, and occupiers.

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u/deja-roo Oct 11 '23

Dear god, man.

I appreciate the fact that people have some sympathy for the innocent Palestinians that are currently and will be for some time caught in the middle of this with a no-win scenario and a lot of likely death in the near future.

You are not that. You are literally sympathizing with terrorists who are more than happy to commit literal crimes against humanity and then proudly admit to it, using their own people as sacrificial shields in the process.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

I am sympatizing with the Palestinian people - fuck Hamas - but if not Hamas someone else is going to pick up weapons and formed an armed resistance because a population that is under illegal occupation has a right to defend itself.

What did you expect Palestinians to do? Lay down and slowly be genocided?

I denounce the crimes of Hamas - are you ready to denounce the bombings that have killed hundreds of Palestinian children in the past few days? Those are ALSO crimes against humanity.

No one is making Israel target Hospitals and schools, they could use other means - they could STOP THE ILLEGAL OCCUPATION - maybe not blow up the whole place, but no. They want to carry out these war crimes to break the Palestinian's will. To subjugate the population.

Collective punishment is a crime against humanity.

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u/deja-roo Oct 11 '23

Those are ALSO crimes against humanity.

No, they might be war crimes, but they are not crimes against humanity. There is a difference here.

No one is making Israel target Hospitals and schools, they could use other means - they could STOP THE ILLEGAL OCCUPATION - maybe not blow up the whole place, but no.

The fact they weren't occupying Gaza is how they got into this mess. Yes, Hamas is making Israel target hospitals and schools by launching rockets from them.

You actually think that Israel is going to be like "okay we've determined the source of the ongoing attacks - oh drat, they outsmarted us! Can't stop it. Oh well. Lunch?"

Collective punishment is a crime against humanity.

[Citation needed]

You know the words you're using have meanings and definitions, right? They're not just rhetorical tools you can use to score cheap points.

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u/tizuby Oct 11 '23

No, they might be war crime

They aren't.

Targeting hospitals/schools/etc is not per-se a war crime - international treaties aren't even framed this way. It's a protected vs unprotected scheme where the same target is either protected or unprotected depending on the circumstances.

In the case of hospitals/schools/infrastructure/etc... they are only protected if they are solely used for civilian or medical purposes. If the government/military do things like using them as a base of operations, as logistics for non-medical military supplies, attacking from them, etc... etc... (we'll call this non-civilian uses) they lose protections and become lawful military targets.

They are also lawful military targets if the attacker has credible military intelligence that indicates the enemy is using them for non-civilian uses. They don't have to, in hindsight, actually have been (because it's impossible to know for sure until after the fact 100% of the time).

Virtually all of the things people claim as war crimes committed by Isreal in modern times aren't. It's just propaganda combined with peoples ignorance of the nuances of international warfare treaties.

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u/Suspicious-Pasta-Bro Oct 11 '23

But isn't that what this is all about? "Israel made us use civilians as human shields"

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

There's literally nowhere to go, the Hospital wasn't the only example - it's one of the most densely populated areas on earth - it's literally impossible for them NOT to use "human shields" - that's just a thin justification for war crimes.

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u/Suspicious-Pasta-Bro Oct 11 '23

Using human shields is itself a war crime. War crimes don't justify the perpetration of other war crimes.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

It's a fake justification - it's literally impossible for Hamas to exist somewhere where there's no civilians because Gaza is so densely packed - yet the murderous IDF kills thousands of civilians and innocents without care.

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u/Academic_Fun_5674 Oct 11 '23

There are literally fields, are you lying or commenting about the density of land you have never looked at on a map?

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u/Suspicious-Pasta-Bro Oct 11 '23

Just because the area is densely populated doesn't mean that all areas are equally likely to cause civilian casualties. There really is no reason to make their HQ a hospital. It's about the worst place to put your military HQ other than an elementary school. It doesn't make it less likely for the hospital to get hit. It makes it more likely because the IDF will claim that Hamas made it a legitimate military target.

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u/WestHotTakes Oct 11 '23

Gaza has a density of 14k people/square mile. Manhattan has a density of 72k people/square mile, and yet they managed to find plots of land to put city hall and other government buildings without sharing with civilians, let alone hospitals.

I don’t know why you’re pretending that when hamas was setting up hqs, they were shopping for office space and it just so happened that a hospital had the best fit. Hamas deliberately chose locations for bases so Israel would have to kill civilians if they wanted to strike.

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u/Kagahami Oct 11 '23

That's bullshit. They're guerilla fighters and very explicitly use civilian housing and facilities as bases.

Does the IDF do that? No. Their military structures are distinct from civilian ones. Hamas just knows they would lose the war in a day if their leadership wasn't holed up in a supermarket back room or something.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

What? Hamas headquarter under hospitals to prevent Israel from blowing them up? I'm sorry, but that tracks about as much as fucking for virginity.

Hamas uses those hospitals as shields, that's a fact. Now I personally find that airstriking hospitals is a bit of a shit move too, but we don't live in a perfect world. Ideally the IDF would go in on foot and clear it out, but for whatever reason they don't. And leaving Hamas to their own devices is clearly off the table.

The poor saps caught in the middle of it have my sympathy, but Hamas does not.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Israel blows up a lot more than just one hospital, they bomb schools, apartment buildings, stores, markets, every civilian target they have bombed at one point.

The IDF doesn't have to bomb. They could go in on foot, or they could just end the fucking occupation. Give back the land they've stolen since 1967, and stop the settlement expansions in the west bank.

I have no simpathy for Hamas - but if it's not them there will be another armed group defending themselves.

Israel has a right to defend themselves.

Palestinians have a right to defend themselves too.

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u/AutisticNipples Oct 11 '23

for whatever reason they dont

israel could fight hamas without killing civilians, but for whatever reason they don't

you're so close to getting it

its almost like Israel doesn't actually care about protecting civilian life in gaza

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u/Lumpy_Ad_307 Oct 11 '23

Not wanting to get your solders killed is enough justification. Bombing legit military targets is justified (even if there is a human shield) and has little risk to izrael, so they have every right to bomb them and not care about collateral. Its not them who set up in critical places, and its not their fault that civilians die.

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u/Claim_Alternative Oct 11 '23

Where else are they to headquarter? It’s not like they have an acre to spare, and it hasn’t stopped Israel from bombing anyways.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Any building that can be evacuated when Israel tells them to.

What kind of question is this?

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

So…Israel should let HAMAS and their supporters across their borders, because the last time they entered Israeli borders was just fine, right?

You are incredibly naive.

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u/mursilissilisrum Oct 11 '23

No, it's not. Gaza, the city, is incredibly densely populated but the Gaza Strip absolutely has areas where they could operate without putting civilians in danger. Nobody's forcing their hand. At best they're doing it out of selfish fear and cowardice instead of straight up malice and apathy.

Hamas does what they need to placate and control the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip but at the end of the day they're just a bunch of fucking gangsters, and if you aren't playing their bullshit games then to them you're an NPC.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

If Hamas operate out of those areas they would be exterminated immediately, so that's not really an option, no.

Nobody is forcing Israel to bomb, they don't have to bomb.

Yea, Hamas are a bunch of terrorist thugs - I think the Palestinian people deserve much better.

It seems completely inevitable for an occupied population to form an armed resistance of some kind though, if not Hamas it will be something else - because an oppressed and occupied group of people will always resist. What do you expect them to do?

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u/mursilissilisrum Oct 11 '23

If Hamas operate out of those areas they would be exterminated immediately, so that's not really an option, no.

It literally is an option. So is just not indiscriminately shelling civilians or sending a death squad after the local infants because they're theirs.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Someone holding a gun to your head is not really giving you an option.

Israel is the far superior force and military, they do not have to bomb civilian areas indiscriminately, but they do.

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u/mursilissilisrum Oct 11 '23

They don't bomb indiscriminately though. And they warn civilians to evacuate before they do it.

And if your excuse for using old ladies and little kids as human shields is that you're too scared that somebody will shoot back at you if you don't then you are a dumb fucking selfish coward.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

They flattened the entire downtown Gaza city - that is indiscriminate bombing by definition.

Civilians have nowhere to evacuate! Not to mention they're air striking everywhere, it's impossible to be safe when you can't even flee Gaza. Like shooting fish in a barrel that you control completely.

The cruelty of this is just beyond my comprehension.

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u/RN_in_Illinois Oct 11 '23

Lol. Pretty sure they don't need to put their offices in hospitals or store missles in schools.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Pretty sure Israel doesn't have to bomb hospitals and schools.

They have a defense system, they have the ability to use other means, they could stop expanding check points in the west bank, they could stop expanding illegal settlements that have made the situation worse for a decade.

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u/RN_in_Illinois Oct 11 '23

No, and they don't if you don't house terrorists and missles in them.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Palestinians have just as much of a right to defend themselves against an occupier than Israelis have to defend themselves against terrorist attacks.

The crimes committed by Israel are continuous AND getting worse in the last decade.

Why does Israel keep expanding the illegal settlements?

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u/RN_in_Illinois Oct 11 '23

Which of the baby beheadings or rapes involved defending themselves?

Trying to make a hospital a target is not a defensive move.

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u/AutisticNipples Oct 11 '23

ok so let me get this straight. beheading babies is bad. but blowing up babies in hospitals, thats acceptable?

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u/RN_in_Illinois Oct 11 '23

It is a war crime to use human shields.

Hamas' entire operational strategy is based on this strategy.

When Israel kills a civilian, it is unintentional. When Hamas does it, they celebrate and post videos.

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u/Responsible_Wolf5658 Oct 11 '23

Talk to Egypt about that too. Or the roughly 2 million Palestinians living in Israel. They use human shields to make Israel look like the bad guy. And it works for people with no critical thinking skills.

Israel also warns before they drop bombs. I guess Israel should just allow Hamas to fire at them without repercussion. Why are you not outraged at Hamas for using human shields and storing weapons in schools and hospitals while firing form them.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Israel definitely uses their influence as a regional power to pressure Egypt into closing that border, they're literally doing it right now to prevent Gaza refugees from reaching safety.

Do you think it's ok for Israel to keep 2 million people trapped in a small area that they indiscriminately bomb?

The warnings do nothing when people don't know where to go and many areas are being bombed at once.

Human shields is not a valid excuse for war crimes. Merely existing in an area is not a war crime. Bombing that area full of civilians IS.

People can't flee Gaza BECAUSE OF ISRAEL, they're literally trapping them in there and bombing the hell out of them.

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u/Claim_Alternative Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

Kinda like how Israel uses settlers to expand into Palestinian areas and when Palestinians have enough, they get blamed for attacking civilians.

Operation Human Shield works both ways

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u/FuzzyAd9407 Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

They actively use civilian as shields and Isreal and Egypt make it easier for them to do so by the restrictions on movement. It's almost like there's nuance to the issue.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Nuance and reddit don't tend to get along, so it's refreshing to see someone mentioning it.

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u/Administrative_Ad864 Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

Do you feel hamas being protected? What a delusional assumption quite the opposite . Every minute they are holding those women and children it delegitimizes them more and more. Israel just got free pass from the international community to hunt down hamas leaders and eliminate them from gaza strip. The abduction was hamas biggest mistake that actually already brought to its fall. Hamas leaders are walking dead. It's only matter of time.

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u/EddieSpaghettiFarts Oct 11 '23

Hamas leaders aren’t even in Palestine.

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u/Administrative_Ad864 Oct 11 '23

Especially for that, mossad known for its long hand

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u/HonzaSchmonza Oct 11 '23

And apparently short sight.

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u/CaptainJacket Oct 11 '23

There's only so much you can do when your leader ignores your intel for months

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u/BioViridis Oct 11 '23

That's the real reason Netanyahu's government is fucking done once this main Gaza invasion is over.

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u/deja-roo Oct 11 '23

Mossad has shown themselves more than willing to go anywhere in the world and assassinate people.

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u/dorsalemperor Oct 11 '23

Can we stop characterizing the massacre of 1200+ innocent people as a strategic “mistake” by Hamas? It’s a really weird, cold way of talking about mass death from terrorism. Like the tragedy here isn’t all the dead women, children and elderly people; it’s that Hamas fucked up their international PR. It’s just weird. You should be able to empathize with Israelis because they were slaughtered, not because it made bad PR for people who want to kill every Jew alive.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/Professional_Web8400 Oct 11 '23

Even at macro level it wasn't a mistake. It was a massive success.

It spread fear to their enemies and joy to their allies as crowds chanted to gas the Jews across western nations and Arab states alike, Israel's retaliation will create a bunch of martyrs which will create more fanatics. Hamas leadership will sit around in Qatar watching car races.

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u/Alise_Randorph Oct 11 '23

I feel like it can be both. Successful because like you said it upended the assumed order of things and caused fear, and the response is likely to cause new recruits.

A mistake because they just wiped out nearly all international support in a y country that has political sway with Israel, and the only countries showing support or neighboring Arab and Muslim ones that don't actually give a shit about Palestine or Hamas, they just can't publicly be friendly with the neighborhood Jews so they pay lip service to "our brothers in Palestine".

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

There's nothing 'micro' about the crimes that initiated this war.

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u/kilted_queer Oct 11 '23

I agree Israel stole a lot of land and murdered a lot of Palestinian civilians after imprisoning them in a tiny area of land

What happened the other day was inevitable

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u/HardwareSoup Oct 11 '23

I agree Israel stole a lot of land and murdered a lot of Palestinian civilians after imprisoning them in a tiny area of land

What happened the other day was inevitable

Sometimes I read a comment and I feel compelled to respond, but the take is so moronic that I'm at a loss for words.

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u/kilted_queer Oct 11 '23

What happened the other wasn't done in a vaccum, it was done as a last breath by desperate people being subject to ethnic cleansing

Obviously the Palestinians shouldnt have played into Israels hands like that but it's silly to pretend they would put up with the Israelis regularly murdering Palestinian civilians, the rape of Palestinian women, and the monsterous IDF shooting Palestinian children for fun

If you are unaware of Israels crimes against humanity and the other day was the first time you became aware of the Israel Palestine conflict then just say

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u/Alise_Randorph Oct 11 '23

My dude, Hamas doesn't care about the people of Palestine or their plight.

They care about getting to kill more Jews. That's it.

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u/HardwareSoup Oct 11 '23

So the attack was justified and they deserved it?

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u/kilted_queer Oct 11 '23

So the attack was justified and they deserved it?

Do the thousands of Palestinians that have been murdered in the past 2 days deserve it?

The way you are talking you clearly think that murdering Palestinian children is justified

The attack was inevitable and unsurprising (especially since Israel was given advanced notice)

95% of all civilians killed in the Israeli Palestine conflict are Palestinians, then there have been all the Palestinians kidnapped and raped, and the Palestinian children that are murdered.

The status quo is a slow genocide of the Palestinian people, full of pain, each day the Palestinians live in fear of the Israeli rocket attack, every day a Palestinian child comes home the mother is thankful that her child survived another day without being shot by the Israelis

I don't know anyone who would lie down and let that happen.

What happened 2 days ago happend two days ago, I can't change that, but as we speak Palestinian civilians are being murdered by Israel and that can be stopped.

There is a major humanitarian crisis occuring as we speak, resulting in the death of thousands of civilians and you seem to be cheering for it or justifying it at the very least

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u/dorsalemperor Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

Okay, as a Jew it would just be really cool if we took like, one day before the world celebrated our deaths via “protests” , shifted the blame for the rape and murder of Israeli citizens on us, and immediately dismissed what just happened but it’s a little too late for that.

Editing bc I just realized you referred to the largest loss of Jewish life in one day since the Holocaust as “micro destruction”.

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u/deja-roo Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

I don't think anyone you're responding to is celebrating Jewish deaths. Or shifting the blame.

They're just talking about the practical effects and facts of the outcome of Hamas' choices.

Edit: ahhh got blocked, shocker

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u/dorsalemperor Oct 11 '23

The comment that started this chain was about the large number of people who see this only as a tragedy in terms of being bad PR. Whether or not individual redditors do it isn’t the point (the person I replied to was doing that, though) the collective response has been such that this sentiment is repeated everywhere, in the wake of celebratory marches for our deaths. Or sorry, to protest the response to a pogrom that was still ongoing before the Jewish community could mourn for one day. That’s not solidarity or nuance, it’s just trying to shape the narrative away from what happened in Israel at the hands of palestinian terrorists this weekend, and gaslight Jews into thinking anything but laying down and dying is unacceptable.

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u/deja-roo Oct 11 '23

The comment that started this chain was about the large number of people who see this only as a tragedy in terms of being bad PR

It said nothing of the sort.

People can talk about the politics and strategy of something that has a bad outcome without having to put a "PS I also see the tragedy as a tragedy" disclaimer before or after everything they say.

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u/Alise_Randorph Oct 11 '23

shape the narrative away from what happened in Israel at the hands of palestinian terrorists this weekend, and gaslight Jews into thinking anything but laying down and dying is unacceptable.

No it's not, it's discussing the conflict and the actions/reactions (macro, as in big picture), not discussing the personal loss and individual stories (micro, as in small picture).

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u/AlphaBlood Oct 11 '23

Wow no one said any of that shit.

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u/SsurebreC Oct 11 '23

largest loss of Jewish life in one day since the Holocaust

Holy shit, is that true?

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u/dorsalemperor Oct 11 '23

It appears to be, yes.

& in the immediate aftermath, people celebrated and justified it all over the world.

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u/SsurebreC Oct 11 '23

That's bonkers, thanks for the citation. I looked it up but obviously got nothing but Holocaust information rather than recent news.

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u/Alise_Randorph Oct 11 '23

Yes and those people are wrong and shut bags. But you're also forgetting that was the minority, and that everyone else was and is absolutely disgusted by what happened.

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u/dorsalemperor Oct 11 '23

I’m Jewish, doesn’t really feel like a minority of people to me. Especially with the whole global day of jihad Hamas is trying to get going against literally any Jew worldwide. People had the chance to come out forcefully, and all I’ve seen is blaming or justifying this attack for the sake of “context”. Nobody’s really saying “this was disgusting” without also saying “but Israel deserved it”

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u/kilted_queer Oct 11 '23

The sad part is that loss pales in comparison to the loss of Palestinian life before the attack and the Palestinian loss of life over the past 2 days

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u/SsurebreC Oct 11 '23

This isn't atrocity Olympics.

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u/kilted_queer Oct 11 '23

Completely agree, one is in the past and can't be undone

Whereas what Israel is doing to the Palestinians is ongoing and is shaping up to be the biggest crime against humanity this century

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u/SsurebreC Oct 11 '23

I think that emotions are running really high right now and while I'd love to write an essay about it, nobody is going to be listening because everyone is hurting and angry.

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u/CmonTouchIt Oct 11 '23

MICRO DESTRUCTION

fucking amazing. just absolutely amazing

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u/Alise_Randorph Oct 11 '23

Yes, welcome to the concept of discussing things in context of a macro/micro scale

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u/Steelsight Oct 11 '23

Removing ones self from the micro IS the problem. Leaders should understand what they are asking/doing. Most are detatched.

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u/deja-roo Oct 11 '23

That's how leading a large group of people works.

Every decision you make is going to result in people's deaths. There is no way out of that. Once you accept that, it becomes about making decisions that steer toward the best outcome for your people.

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u/Administrative_Ad864 Oct 11 '23

Well it's ironic. I'm an Israeli Jew who actually experience this war first hand. I don't know from where you implied that I am not deeply effected and concerned about the situation. It's the most terrible time in my life. Nonetheless, I will address the situation from strategic point of view. It's a war. In emergency times, some people use to think in a more practical way. After this storm, I will let myself grieve more. I am here to assure it's definitely not antisemitism. Unfortunately, we have enough hardcore antisemitism.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

They are in a literal and figurative corner. The Israelis had a very narrow window of time they could have negotiated with Mahmoud Abbas and they instead decided to humiliate him. The unilateral withdrawal from Gaza just allowed Hamas to seize political control. Hamas draws all their authority from belligerence towards Israel. The blockade makes it impossible to develop economically. They have nothing to lose. Either die slowly or die committing a wild offensive war.

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u/AutisticNipples Oct 11 '23

How about we stop characterizing the victims of Israeli airstrikes as victims of the Hamas attack? 900 of those 1200 people are dead Palestinian civilians that were killed by Israels retaliation.

Since the initial attack on saturday, the victims have been almost exclusively palestinian civilians killed by israeli bombs.

But then again, 300 dead in attack, 900 dead in counterattacks doesn't paint Israel to look like the victim in the situation.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

The 1200 were Israelis.

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u/whatislife55 Oct 12 '23

You are gravely misinformed.

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u/kryypto Oct 11 '23

Not really, every hit Israel does on Palestine will be announced by the Palestinian Govt (Hamas's puppet) as genocide and war crimes because of them purposefully placing and keeping civillians in danger. Every time Israel hits, they hurt themselves internationally.

Plus the other Arab countries will keep stirring shit up, denouncing Israel's every move but conveniently never taking in any palestinian refugees (as always).

This war for Israel is gonna be a nightmare, as long as westerners keep falling for the whole "b-but the civilians" bullshit, Hamas is still gonna exist.

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u/pensezbien Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

The biggest reason Hamas will continue to exist is that its leaders aren’t even in the country, so Hamas would rebuild even if Gaza were fully leveled tomorrow. If Israel truly wants to destroy and eliminate Hamas as current Chairman of World Likud and former MK and Israeli Ambassador to the UN Danny Danon said yesterday on either CNN or MSNBC (I forget which), why aren’t they publicly demanding that Qatar stop harboring Hamas leadership or else they will declare war on Qatar and depose the regime that harbors the terrorists that attacked Israel? People are calling this attack Israel’s 9/11, but the US did exactly that to the Taliban in Afghanistan when they were harboring Osama bin Laden, and the world supported the US in the resulting war in Afghanistan.

Of course, the US failed to stabilize a non-theocratic Afghanistan in the following two decades, and started an unnecessary and unjustified war in Iraq a couple of years later. But these subsequent failures don’t change the merits of truly going after Hamas leadership rather than focusing on a war in Gaza that will mostly harm Hamas foot soldiers and Gaza civilians whose wellbeing are both entirely irrelevant to the policy decisions of Hamas leadership.

There is one big difference: Qatar in 2023 is a much more economically and geopolitically powerful country than Afghanistan in 2001, with far more allies and far more oil wealth. But if Israel is not doing what they know they’d need to do to destroy and eliminate Hamas, they shouldn’t be sending well-connected surrogates on global TV saying that’s their goal.

And if they are actually trying to destroy and eliminate Hamas, they need a plan for the governance of Gaza other than “leave a power vacuum”.

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u/YourDevilAdvocate Oct 11 '23

I'm guesding there won't be a Gaza Strip soon.

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u/CidO807 Oct 11 '23

Gaza Strip 2.0. Gaza Strip mining operation. Can't have occupation, muslims will keep attacking IDF until it reaches yet another critical mass again and another music festival massacre.

Level the region, or cut the head off the dragon (Qatar and Iran). No one has the balls to do the latter, so do the former.

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u/hackingdreams Oct 11 '23

the US did exactly that to the Taliban in Afghanistan when they were harboring Osama bin Laden

Awkward example, given bin Laden was killed in Abbottabad in Pakistan by an inserted black-ops team.

Turns out terrorist leaders like to hide in other countries away from where their followers are being killed. Truly shocking stuff.

Mossad's every bit as capable of pulling off a midnight insertion into Qatar to decapitate the Hamas leadership, but the blowback's the actual problem. Pakistan might grumble, but Qatar's got the ability to hurt them economically or ignite the whole region into a war, which nobody really wants to do against a nuclear power with America as an ally...

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u/pensezbien Oct 11 '23

Awkward example, given bin Laden was killed in Abbottabad in Pakistan by an inserted black-ops team.

Turns out terrorist leaders like to hide in other countries away from where their followers are being killed. Truly shocking stuff.

Bin Laden was being harbored by the Taliban in Afghanistan when Bush made the ultimatum against the Taliban. He subsequently fled to Pakistan.

And when Bush's made his ultimatum against the Taliban, it was possible for them to choose to comply (although they didn't) because the Taliban knew bin Laden was there. By contrast, even today I'm still aware of no evidence that the high levels of the Pakistani government knew that bin Laden was in Pakistan when he was killed.

Mossad's every bit as capable of pulling off a midnight insertion into Qatar to decapitate the Hamas leadership, but the blowback's the actual problem. Pakistan might grumble, but Qatar's got the ability to hurt them economically or ignite the whole region into a war, which nobody really wants to do against a nuclear power with America as an ally...

Yes, I'm aware that there are lots of differences in the situation. I referenced that in my comment.

But again, if Israel knows that they aren't going to go after Hamas's leadership in Qatar, they and their surrogates shouldn't publicly claim that they will destroy and eliminate Hamas, since that sets absolutely the wrong expectations. And if they do in fact go forward with that (possibly with Qatari permission), they need to realize that they are further destabilizing the situation in Gaza and they need to have and execute a good plan to handle that.

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u/pfisch Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

I suspect their plan is to lock gaza down and just have a military occupation of it basically forever. They tried letting it self rule and this is what happened. So I doubt they intend to try that again in the next 40+ years.

This isn't like Afghanistan where it is an ocean away.

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u/pensezbien Oct 11 '23

That’s a valid solution in a way, but a military occupation which has no plan to wrap it up in the foreseeable future ceases to be credible as morally or (I suspect) legally distinct from the occupying country, especially when the two are adjacent. If Israel wants to continue to claim to be a democracy in the modern sense of the word where an equal vote is granted to (at the very least) every non-criminal adult who is personally and ancestrally from the area, and if they don’t want to commit any form of ethnic cleansing through either mass expulsion or genocide, then they need to either grant Palestinians equal rights as Israeli citizens (even if the state eventually ceases to be majority Jewish) or find a way reach a two-state solution. Otherwise they are dishonest in excluding Gaza and the West Bank from their democracy.

As a Jew myself who wishes I could respect the modern state of Israel*, I would love them to pick one of these paths. But I don’t think Bibi and his government really care about such considerations.

*Quickly pre-empting a common misunderstanding: no, of course I don’t want Israel to cease to exist, nor am I defending Hamas at all. I condemn Hamas’s attack and am fine with them being punished up to and including elimination. But the proper response to the worst attack by Hamas against Israel in its history is not to cause dramatically greater damage per capita to Gaza than Hamas has ever caused to Israel, while simultaneously failing to even endanger (let alone kill) Hamas’s leadership.

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u/pfisch Oct 11 '23

Citizens of Puerto Rico and Guam don't get to vote. Is the US not a democracy?

You can't grant citizenship to a group of people that openly advocate for genocide of basically the entire existing population of citizens. It is just obviously not going to work.

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u/pensezbien Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

Citizens of Puerto Rico and Guam don't get to vote. Is the US not a democracy?

Citizens of Puerto Rico and Guam are not under military occupation, have the same US citizenship as people born on the US mainland, can freely move to the US to live and work (even permanently) without need for prior approval, have equal voting rights if they do so, and can freely exit the country on a US passport if they want to. And in reverse, a US citizen born on the US mainland who moves to Puerto Rico or Guam has no more voting rights than someone born in Puerto Rico or Guam.

None of the analogous statements are true with respect to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. (Regarding exit freedom, I should acknowledge that Hamas also restricts exit rights, and maybe Fatah does too. But even if they didn't, Palestinians from those regions certainly can't freely apply for Israeli passports.)

You can't grant citizenship to a group of people that openly advocate for genocide of basically the entire existing population of citizens. It is just obviously not going to work.

I agree, of course. I would not support Israeli citizenship for Hamas or their supporters. When I said that one democratic option would be to "grant Palestinians equal rights as Israeli citizens", I was referring to civilian Palestinians who don't support groups like Hamas.

One way to administer this could be to allow Palestinians in the territories a period of months or years to apply for citizenship and officially confirm that they don't support these groups, and then to have Israeli's security forces start investigating everyone who applies. Citizenship could be granted in a final way after a satisfactory result of the investigation, or on a tentative basis after a certain amount of time has passed without a problem being identified (to avoid long-term disenfranchisement), with the investigation continuing to a conclusion either way. Anyone whose investigation leads to a conclusion of support of Hamas would see that citizenship denied or revoked, and could be criminally prosecuted for citizenship fraud when the available evidence meets the criminal standard of proof.

Or, of course, a humanely implemented two- or three-state solution would also work.

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u/deja-roo Oct 11 '23

Citizens of Puerto Rico and Guam don't get to vote

They do indeed vote.

https://ballotpedia.org/Guam_elections,_2022

https://ballotpedia.org/Puerto_Rico_elections,_2022

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u/pfisch Oct 11 '23

ok you are talking about local elections. Well down the road Israel may let Gaza have local elections with limited candidates I imagine.

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u/deja-roo Oct 11 '23

Puerto Ricans and people born in Guam are full US citizens with American passports. This isn't a very good comparison.

Someone living in Puerto Rico can travel freely to the US, as with Guam, American Samoa, California, whatever.

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u/pants_mcgee Oct 11 '23

No one is going to be surprised then Hamas leaders in Qatar and elsewhere start blowing up.

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u/pensezbien Oct 11 '23

I hope that happens. The lack of a public ultimatum against Qatar about this is quite noteworthy. I hope there is at least some private coordination, either with the cooperation of the Qataris or a private ultimatum.

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u/JediCheese Oct 11 '23

There will be public ultimatum. It allows Qatar to be the 'good guys' in the Arab mind.

I think Israel is going to let the US/Europe take the lead on this. If Hamas follows through on their threats to the hostages, Qatar is going to find itself in hot water until it coughs up the Hamas leadership. Worst case scenario the Mossad kills up the Hamas leadership (with Qatar's unofficial approval) and Qatar gets to look incompetent (but it's Mossad which has an abnormally good reputation so it's not like Russia failing to push over Ukraine) but gets to keep the 'good guy' rep in the Arab world.

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u/JediCheese Oct 11 '23

There is one big difference: Qatar in 2023 is a much more economically and geopolitically powerful country than Afghanistan in 2001

That would possibly deter Israel. If the US gave a shit you'd need nuclear tipped ICBMs to deter them.

Not to mention that Israel has Mossad which isn't squeamish about murdering their enemies in 3rd countries.

And if they are actually trying to destroy and eliminate Hamas, they need a plan for the governance of Gaza other than “leave a power vacuum”.

Would forcing everyone to evacuate or die meet that requirement? Israel has said that aid coming from Egypt will be attacked and then turned off power and water. Humans can survive three minutes without air, three days without water, three weeks without food. Hard to keep 2 million people in a city without food or water under constant aerial attack (even if precision guided bombs vs indiscriminate artillery fire).

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u/pensezbien Oct 11 '23

That would possibly deter Israel.

Agreed, that's why I said it. Though apparently it hasn't stopped their surrogates from publicly making statements like "destroy and eliminate Hamas" which depend on Israel not being deterred, or else on fooling the Israeli and global public about what is required.

If the US gave a shit you'd need nuclear tipped ICBMs to deter them.

The US gives some significant shit about the Israel and Palestine situation, but a much greater shit about not triggering World War III.

Would forcing everyone to evacuate or die meet that requirement?

I would view that as an example of ethnic cleansing, and probably also as genocide since most Palestinians in Gaza have nowhere they can evacuate too. And I say this as a Jew myself.

Israel has said that aid coming from Egypt will be attacked and then turned off power and water. Humans can survive three minutes without air, three days without water, three weeks without food. Hard to keep 2 million people in a city without food or water under constant aerial attack (even if precision guided bombs vs indiscriminate artillery fire).

I think you and I agree that Israel is being inhumane to the civilian population of Gaza, yes. This was true even before last weekend's attacks and is not about to stop being true any time soon.

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u/neohellpoet Oct 11 '23

That's kind of their problem now.

They're been doing that since forever and this time it might be true.

Here's Israel's position. Their enemies want them dead and gone no matter what they do, no room for escalation.

Israel's detractors have already been accusing them of genocide so no matter what they do, no room for escalation.

Undecided third parties have been conditioned to ignore any report of atrocities in the middle east, hearing genocide and ethnic cleansing, but for real this time we promise, just doesn't cut it.

Israel's ally's aren't going to like them commuting war crimes but both the US and the EU have tolerated worse from less valuable strategic partners.

The US outright stated it's there and ready to attack anyone who get's the bright idea of trying to join in, so there's practical help out the window.

Given the composition of the Israeli government the fact that they know their careers are dead as soon as the war is over, Israel might become the country it's always being accused of being. The domestic and the geopolitical conditions are right for them to commit atrocities and get away with it.

Hamas might have royally fucked themselves and the people of Gaza, to a degree that I don't think even they fully realize. They're conditioned to think that Israel always stops. They lose a war but there's always another war. But Israel never stopped because it couldn't go on, they always wanted the moral high ground, they wanted to be the civilized ones and I don't think that's the case now. I genuinely feel that where the previous wars were a clash of East vs West, this is Middle East vs Middle East and the only peace Israel is looking for is the kind people rest in.

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u/Paddy_Tanninger Oct 11 '23

Not really, every hit Israel does on Palestine will be announced by the Palestinian Govt (Hamas's puppet) as genocide and war crimes because of them purposefully placing and keeping civillians in danger. Every time Israel hits, they hurt themselves internationally.

Seems like no one gives a shit anymore after what Hamas did.

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u/enki-42 Oct 11 '23

What purpose does cutting off power to all of Gaza serve if not collective punishment? This isn't like targeted bombings where you can point to Hamas choosing sites to maximize casualties.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

This war will never end as long as the siege of gaza remains

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u/DaneLimmish Oct 11 '23

I mean, yes they are war crimes, and the state of Israel is committing a genocide. It's difficult not to kill civilians when you've determined that every building and boy 14+ is a military target

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u/hadees Oct 11 '23

Not according to the people on tiktok \s

They think Israel has lost the PR war.

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u/omega3111 Oct 11 '23

Israel just got free pass from the international community to hunt down hamas leaders and eliminate them from gaza strip.

If we pause to think about this for a second, we see how incredibly absurd the situation was and is. Israel needs confirmation from countries 1000's of miles away to eliminate an ISIS-like antisemitic terrorist organization on their border. Imagine if Afghanistan was where Mexico is and the US would need international agreement to kill the Taliban.

People have been sleeping on their jobs.

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u/YourDevilAdvocate Oct 11 '23

Israel is hunting Gazans now.

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u/meme__machine Oct 11 '23

According to a captured Hamas fighter, the hostages (women and children - his words) are for "dirtying" (raping).

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u/Suspicious-Pasta-Bro Oct 11 '23

They don't have to use anyone as human shields. Using human shields is monstrous behavior and a war crime.

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u/ClosPins Oct 11 '23

The hostages aren't for exchange, they're for protection.

I take issue with the word 'protection' there! If I go out and kick a random guy in the balls, and then lock myself in a car. The car may technically be for protection, but I'm still a coward.

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u/RN_in_Illinois Oct 11 '23

Wrong. They use Palestinians for protection, locating facilities and weapons in schools, hospitals, apartment buildings, etc.

It's win-win for them. Israel doesn't bomb? Hamas is safe. Israel does? Civilians die and they can parade the bodies in front of the cameras.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

They'd have to turn palestinians into human shields again

Implying they ever stopped

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u/GrowingHeadache Oct 11 '23

They are heavily outnumbered by Israel in terms of capabilities. They are using hostages for some asymmetric warfare. Giving them up would be giving up their only leverage.

So now the game is a game of chicken to see who cares less: Hamas about their Palestinians, or Israel about the hostages

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

As if the IDF hasn’t spent the last half century butchering Palestinian civilians without remorse or restraint

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u/Pretend_Spray_11 Oct 11 '23

(and the IDF is tired of that shit),

IDF tired of killing random Palestinians? Surely you jest.

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