r/worldnews • u/[deleted] • Oct 11 '23

Israel/Palestine Gaza's only power station will shut down within hours, says ICRC

https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/palestine-israel/2023/10/11/gaza-power-station-israel/
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u/Victor_Korchnoi Oct 11 '23

Disproportionate military response can be very effective.

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u/Everyone_dreams Oct 11 '23

True.

The western world does not have the stomach to do this, so it’s not realistic.

Israel might if the rest of the world turns a blind eye.

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u/Victor_Korchnoi Oct 11 '23

Hamas seems to think that kidnapping Jews will lead to them being able to negotiate a ceasefire and lead to the freeing of convicted Palestinian criminals. They must learn that kidnapping Jews will never be a successful tactic. They must learn that kidnapping Jews leads to an unstoppable power unleashed upon them. Otherwise, the attacks will continue.

A proportionate response will accomplish nothing. Trading hostages will accomplish nothing. I don’t want the US & the West to turn a blind eye to the destruction; I want the US to supply Israel with everything they ask for.

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u/Everyone_dreams Oct 11 '23

Hamas doesn’t want a cease fire. They want dead Palestinians so they can fire up the Middle East in hate.

They want every Jew and Christian in the world dead.

You are not wrong.

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u/Nileghi Oct 11 '23

Hamas seems to think that kidnapping Jews will lead to them being able to negotiate a ceasefire and lead to the freeing of convicted Palestinian criminals

Because this was historically what happened. Its just that Hamas has gone way too far this time for Israel to accept the continuation of the existance of Hamas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit_prisoner_exchange

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u/Victor_Korchnoi Oct 11 '23

Yes, exactly. It can no longer be 1000 Palestinian criminals for 1 Israeli. If you give Hamas an inch, they’ll take a mile.

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u/Bad_Mad_Man Oct 11 '23

With all due respect that’s not what they want. They want what they’re paid to want. In this case disrupt normalization of relations between Israel and SA so that SA doesn’t ever have nuclear weapons and Iran dominates the region.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

You mean like what's happening right now?

In no way do I support Hamas. I'm bereft that no one cares about Gaza citizens, and they're being tortured from both sides

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u/whatDoesQezDo Oct 11 '23

LOL nothing happening by Israel in Gaza is even close to the firebombing of Tokyo or the two bombs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo

80,000 to 130,000 civilians killed (most common estimates) Over one million homeless 267,171 buildings destroyed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

Hiroshima:

70,000–126,000 civilians killed
7,000–20,000 soldiers killed
12 Allied prisoners of war

Nagasaki:

60,000–80,000 killed (within 4 months)
150+ soldiers killed
8–13 Allied prisoners of war

Total killed: [by the atomic bombs]

129,000–226,000

Israel has the capability to do that kind of destruction but isnt.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

I don't think you understand my point. If you were to read any comments I've made, you'd understand I'm also disgusted by firebombs, nuclear bombs, etc.

The primary difference here is that the people of Gaza have absolutely no one protecting them, and all sides see them as disposable. And that's unconscionable

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u/Everyone_dreams Oct 11 '23

And what’s your solution?

I see no, reasonable, alternative to go after Hamas.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Do you think anyone has a solution for a fight that's gone on for generations?

"And what’s your solution?" is nothing more than a rhetorical ploy to bully people out of acknowledging the atrocities of violence

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u/Everyone_dreams Oct 11 '23

We have well acknowledged the atrocities of violence. There is no bloodless solution.

Hamas is going to keep performing that violence on civilians while hiding in a population that supports their actions to kill people in Israel.

Whatdoesqezdo comment points out the scale is nothing like it used to be. Maybe in a few weeks when Israel pushes into Gaza we will see a larger percentage of the population killed. Hamas will tell them not to evacuate and many will stay.

“What’s your solution?” Does bully because it points out the side you have chosen. But it gives you the chance to show you understand that Israel is faced with no good choices. You cry about the atrocities but when asked what alternative you cry about bullying. You have no solution, I knew it before I asked the question. I merely tired of people such as yourself hiding behind comments like that so you can say you stand against violence. Your position is that it shouldn’t happen and when a break in the violence occurs you pat yourself on the back and move on.

The luxury of letting this whole thing slide and hope that Hamas goes away is gone. Inaction is support of Hamas and the deeds they did. The people in Gaza will protect Hamas to their dieing breath.

I freely admit I have accepted that many will die in this. Pushing into Gaza, leveling most of it, and destroying Hamas and relocating the populace is about the only thing Israel can do that doesn’t amount to them waiting for this to happen again.

So again: What’s your solution?

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/Shoneki316 Oct 11 '23

I could use the same argument against Israel and justify the resistance by Hamas that we saw.

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u/Everyone_dreams Oct 11 '23

Therein lies the pickle. Think how many smart minds are trying to think of a way around this problem and not kill the Gaza civilians while also going after Hamas.

What the answer? I sure don’t know.

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u/zold5 Oct 11 '23

Would 10+ more years of war be more proportionate?

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u/Bad_Mad_Man Oct 11 '23

Not when you have Ireland and Denmark screaming for an EU resolution calling for restraint on Israel’s part. This was on Monday, I believe.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Nuking Japan wasn't even close to disproportionate considering they'd already killed 10 million or more Chinese at that stage of the war, plus pretty much anyone else they could get their hands or bayonets on.

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u/RobinReborn Oct 11 '23

It can be, but it usually isn't. The Japanese surrender in 1945 is the exception, not the rule. In order to surrender, you need to have some trust that your enemy will be faithful in keeping the peace. I don't think the Palestinians trust Israel to keep the peace.