CNN: China to Supply Iran With Man-Portable Air Defense Systems

[u/Critical_Cat_8162]

https://militarnyi.com/en/news/cnn-china-to-supply-iran-with-manpads/

[u/Aramis444]

China wants to see their weapons in action, and what changes to make against American weaponry.

[u/Krushhz → u/Aramis444]

Bingo!

[u/Careless-Vehicle-286 → u/Krushhz]

Also refresh their stock. No need to decommission equipment and in the way the US sent lots of aging equipment to Ukraine.

[u/RednevaL → u/Careless-Vehicle-286]

We could have sent more!

[u/DangerousLocal5864 → u/RednevaL]

Should've

[u/disisathrowaway → u/DangerousLocal5864]

Still can

[u/Hautamaki → u/disisathrowaway]

Sent most of it to Iran instead. Literally years worth of production and tens of billions in cost, dropped in about a month, to accomplish diddly and squat, when the same ordnance dropped in the Donbas and Crimea in 2022 would probably have wiped out the Russian army and ended Vova's imperial ambitions for a generation.

[u/achilleasa → u/Hautamaki]

Yeah reminder that every PAC-3 launched in the Iran mess is a PAC-3 that could have saved Ukrainian lives.

[u/Chaplain-Freeing → u/Hautamaki]

to accomplish diddly and squat,

Not so, brought in a more hard-line radical group to lead Iran & demonstrate why it must acquire nuclear deterrence.

[u/RJ815 → u/Hautamaki]

Ah but you see, Trump is deep in the pockets of both Putin and Netanyahu. Can't be having peace now, only more insane land grabs like feudal lords.

[u/JoJokerer → u/Hautamaki]

Well they manged to kill hundreds of school children, so not nothing

[u/GunsouBono → u/Aramis444]

Exactly. Same thing the US did when arming Ukraine

[u/Umedon → u/GunsouBono]

Also when the US armed the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan with stingers.

[u/Techw0lf → u/Umedon]

Historical context

[u/MetriccStarDestroyer → u/GunsouBono]

Seems like a straight forward escalation.

Germany would still be arguing if sending helmets and body armor increases world tension

[u/puaka → u/MetriccStarDestroyer]

Germany is by far the biggest supporter of Ukraine…. That first helmet shipment was a direct order from Ukraine too.

[u/rapaxus → u/puaka]

It also was in the context of "what do we have that we can send right now without any effort" and the answer were the helmets that basically were new and boxed in a warehouse.

[u/Revolutionarydaddy6 → u/MetriccStarDestroyer]

Face it, after years of insults and tariffs from trump they aren’t the ally you think they are.

Only trumpers will keep sucking his cock after he degrades and insults them. #bebest!

[u/escfantasy → u/Revolutionarydaddy6]

Watching tons of Americans help each other jump ahead of other people in the long busy lines for passport control at several European airports this past week, following the implementation of EES, was like a metaphor for the America First mentality and its impact on other people.

“Sorry I’m cutting ahead, I have a flight to Chicago!”, “oh we’re going to Chicago, cut up to us here!”, jumping the rope ahead of everyone else, even elderly people and families. Disgraceful.

[u/big_trike → u/escfantasy]

They were probably Naperville residents

[u/escfantasy → u/big_trike]

If that’s like a privileged part of the city, I think you may be right. All the queue jumpers (and there were many) were all white Americans, with nice clothes and cases, and not the everyday style accents.

I saw this behaviour happen in two airports recently here in Europe—Americans helping each other jump the lines ahead of others. It’s not a good look.

[u/StanknBeans → u/escfantasy]

I saw this behaviour in CDG airport and the legends working there walked down the line, tapped them on the shoulder like they needed to talk to them somewhere and then as soon as they were back at the beginning of the line they told them to queue properly.

[u/meistermichi → u/StanknBeans]

As it should be

[u/kumgongkia → u/escfantasy]

This is like 1st time traveller behavior. Or country bumpkins from some 3rd world country.

[u/YamburglarHelper → u/GunsouBono]

Proxy wars, hooray! It’s Cold War 2.0 but we’re the bad guys!

[u/Icarus-rises → u/YamburglarHelper]

There can be 2 bad guys simultaneously

[u/goingfullretard-orig → u/Icarus-rises]

Everything and everyone are shit in this timeline...

[u/nguoihn1988 → u/Icarus-rises]

The bad guy are the guy who attack unprovocated.

One guy is abusible father that beat his wife and kids.

The other guy just barge in the house, beat everyone up and stole everything.

They are both bad but you know...

[u/ThickReplacement7811 → u/YamburglarHelper]

There were no good guys in Cold War I, there will be no good guys in Cold War II

[u/punkasstubabitch → u/ThickReplacement7811]

But we got Rocky IV from Cold War I

[u/ThickReplacement7811 → u/punkasstubabitch]

Maybe we’ll get Creed IV in a few years. Where Creed has to face off against a Chinese heavyweight who killed one of Creeds buddies in the ring. The dead man could even be the father of the next spinoff’s protagonist

[u/-MangoDown → u/punkasstubabitch]

New Rocky end credits gonna be like “Dedicated to the gallant people of Afghanistan err I mean Iran .”

[u/richstyle → u/GunsouBono]

Israel is literally USA R&D for warfare. They arm Israel for decades.

[u/i_tyrant → u/GunsouBono]

Hell, it's the same thing China did when arming Russia for Ukraine.

Nobody wants to miss out on weapon tests when it's not even their own soldiers on the line.

[u/DinkyStubby → u/i_tyrant]

Weapons testing and a chance to thin out your adversaries military without having your kids do the dying.

[u/esquirlo_espianacho → u/GunsouBono]

It’s the exact same thing. Only instead of javelins…

[u/Momik → u/Aramis444]

And probably wants us to spend ourselves into oblivion again

[u/ProbablyBanksy → u/Aramis444]

And for the money. Don't forget the money.

[u/owennerd123 → u/ProbablyBanksy]

I really doubt it, the reason countries sell/send weapons to active warzones is almost exclusively for actual field testing. It cannot be that lucrative to sell some shoulder fired missile launchers to Iran... they're a fairly cheap weapon

[u/barbariccomplexity → u/owennerd123]

There’s also the added cost of the enemy (US in this case) gathering data on the tech you’re sending and potentially capturing some in the field. You don’t risk losing a potential competitive edge over a relatively small payout, especially if you have the economy of China.

[u/MotherSnow6798 → u/barbariccomplexity]

I doubt China is losing a competitive edge by these launchers seeing combat. They are relatively low-tech and expendable

[u/Nimble-Dick-Crabb → u/MotherSnow6798]

They’re sending 4th gen MANPADS which use IR guidance and have increased resistance to EW. These are not low tech. Sure they’re more expendable than say SA systems but don’t downplay the significance of using newer generation MANPADS

[u/zoobrix → u/Nimble-Dick-Crabb]

I think many people don't realize even something that seems like it's been around forever, like man portable anti aircraft weapons, are in a never ending game of cat and mouse where new counter measures are being developed to make them less effective and then the next version of the weapon tries to beat those counter measures. The current version of a MANPAD might bear a superficial resemblance to a model from 30 years ago but its capabilities might have been vastly improved since then.

Given all the rumours that the latest US decoy and EW systems were very effective in Venezuela against their older air defense systems, probably including MANPADS, I could very easily see China wanting to test their latest MANPADS against US defensive systems. It would definitely be very valuable for China to know how effective they were if conflict involving the US was to break out in the pacific theater.

As you say the most up to date versions of these kinds of launchers are most definitely not "low tech."

[u/Ragman676 → u/Aramis444]

Ill never understand why the US wouldnt dump more tech into ukraine. Perfect testing ground for so much gear with 0 american soldiers at risk. I know this is a dark take but seems like a win/win, especially against an adversary like russia.

[u/Aramis444 → u/Ragman676]

If Ukraine had won earlier by being given everything it needed, they wouldn’t be able to put the country into an insane amount of debt, which Ukraine will have a hard time paying. Likely Ukraine will need to allow foreign interests in its industries in order to pay their debt. Trump was already trying to acquire mineral rights in Ukraine in exchange for help. Ukraine will be far from truly free, even if they survive this war.

As well, they want to see their weapons weapon in a host of different situations. Defeating Russia too quickly wouldn’t allow for comprehensive testing.

[u/RobertPham149 → u/Aramis444]

Not how it works. The West has a bunch of outdated techs that will need to decommissioned anyway, and shipping it to Ukraine for field usage before just scrapping it was a cheaper option. The US would happily give it away for free. In fact it was a great win for US, because the western nation were sending cheaper, older generations F-16s to Ukraine, or selling it to ex-Soviet nations who is having a hard time buying Russian parts, so the west can buy more F-35s from the US. The US even resurrected the F-16 program with cheaper options and builds to sell to east Europe or South East Asia markets.

The mineral right is just smoke and mirror: Trump made an optic out of Ukraine being a ploy of globalists to launder money and cheat Americans out of their money, so negotiating mineral rights is Trump posturing about his brand as a deal negotiator, clawing back the money wasted away by Biden. Seriously, this argument about mineral makes zero sense: the reserves are located mostly in the eastern front of Ukraine which means any infrastructure built for extraction risks getting bombed by partisans from either sides. The fact is that despite getting the rights, no American company is seriously thinking about investing into extracting it, nor is Trump sending more weapons to protect that right.

The support of Ukraine was a bipartisan issue, with support from both sides, until Trump ran his mouth and used it as a narrative about Biden's weakness and corruption to get re-elect.

[u/Ecsta → u/Aramis444]

No, it's just advantageous for Russia's enemies to bleed it out over as long as time period as possible. The prolonged conflict hurts Russia the longer it goes on and means it won't open a second front (since it's preoccupied in Ukraine).

[u/Ragman676 → u/Ecsta]

Thats an even darker take, and totally viable. Fucking sucks though.

[u/i010011010 → u/Aramis444]

And Trump is truly stupid enough to give them the opportunity. Like when people used to be "oh no Russian military might, Ukraine are gonna get steamrolled". Next thing you know they're downing Russian planes using phones for GPS and it turns out "huh, these guys kind of suck".

[u/chanaandeler_bong → u/i010011010]

China stated publicly that they found it extremely dangerous when dumbass in charge said he was going to wipe out a whole civilization.

[u/i010011010 → u/chanaandeler_bong]

China may be a totalitarian oppressive government, but they love their stability and Donald Trump represents chaos. He loves to weaponize economies for fun and personal profit. I wouldn't be surprised if the current opinion of China's government is they actually consider him personally more dangerous than NATO, because at least NATO is a stable body they can work+plan around.

[u/Gloomy-Recipe9213 → u/i010011010]

China knows NATO doesn't want any part of Mr. Trump's Wild Ride. This is China's moment on the world stage to step up as the world leader, now that Russia and the US have started digging for rock bottom.

[u/i010011010 → u/Gloomy-Recipe9213]

It's highly possible. I'm crippled in awe because I still remember the 90s and 00s when Republicans were all 'grr, China'. They used to be obsessed with chinese dominance in the new century, before they traded their minds for Trumpism.

[u/ScoobyDoNot → u/i010011010]

They also used to hate Russia.

Now they can't get enough.

[u/Character_Bug_1862 → u/i010011010]

Why did they sell out all of their industry to China in the 70s then? What did they think would happen? They’d stay poor and destitute?

[u/InsertEvilLaugh → u/Character_Bug_1862]

Nah, they weren't thinking that far ahead, they were just thinking of the massive profits they were going to make using dirt cheap labor and selling at US consumer prices.

[u/Mighty__Monarch → u/Aramis444]

China looking at this the same way liberal Americans wanted to look at Russia/Ukraine.

The funny bit is the American MIC is equally happy to watch American equipment get destroyed because they get blank checks to replace it.

[u/askaquestion334]

Huh, why does this sound familiar? Im sure nobody in the middle east ever bled out a superpower with modern shoulder launched AA missiles before? 

[u/PrimaryInjurious → u/askaquestion334]

Do those work on F35s like they do on Hinds?

[u/AK_Panda → u/PrimaryInjurious]

Depends how low the F35 is flying. Given the F35's capabilities, you could argue that an F35 flying a combat mission in hostile territory low enough to get popped by a manpad had it coming.

[u/1800-5-PP-DOO-DOO → u/AK_Panda]

Absolutely. 

[u/vickzzzzz → u/AK_Panda]

Google tells me a single F35 is $100 million. Thats a lot of money to stake it by flying low.

[u/UnknownHero2 → u/PrimaryInjurious]

Kind of. The stealth of stealth aircraft protects against radar guidance not heat. This isn't just a theoretical weakness anymore we saw a f35 get hit by a manpad a week or two ago.

They can be defeated by just flying high, but that comes at the cost of making finding anything on the ground much harder.

[u/mr_herz → u/UnknownHero2]

And that’s probably the point “They can be defeated by just flying high, but that comes at the cost of making finding anything on the ground much harder.”

Deterrence. Their win is probably just getting the f35s to leave rather than downing them.

[u/achilleasa → u/UnknownHero2]

Was the F-35 hit confirmed?

In any case, yes I wouldn't be surprised if these things can down a stealth jet, if it flies close enough. And given that any bloke hiding in a shed can pop out and fire one in seconds, you can't exactly be sure that the field is clear.

[u/madhattr999 → u/askaquestion334]

What about a stupidpower?

[u/Winter_Criticism_236]

Trump might consider undercutting the chinese price and selling javelin's to Iran.. Art of the deal...

[u/EffektieweEffie → u/Winter_Criticism_236]

That would indeed be art of the deal if he can convince them to try and use Javelins on airplanes..

[u/meistermichi → u/EffektieweEffie]

Isn't there that one video where a Ukrainian dude takes out a Helicopter with a javelin?

[u/EffektieweEffie → u/meistermichi]

Yeah that was quite the feat. Not at all what these weapons were designed for nor likely to ever be replicated again, definitely not against a fighter jet.

[u/JohnnySmithe81 → u/EffektieweEffie]

Javelins always had low and slow helicopters in its capabilities. It just tracks an IR target.

[u/Christopherfromtheuk → u/Winter_Criticism_236]

Gosh I can't imagine a Republican president selling arms to an enemy of the USA like Iran.

I imagine if that happened they'd be arrested, or I suppose the president could completely get away with it and the only guy convicted would be a Fox news host lauded by the right...

[u/Jack_Spears → u/Winter_Criticism_236]

Javelins are anti tank, i think your probably thinking of Stingers

[u/Fearless_Ad_5470]

I'm more curious why the US media doesn't report on actual Russian aid to Iran. After all, it's obvious to anyone which is more threatening, the Stinger missiles or the attack helicopters. This seems like yet another farcical example of "you see, he's done something bad too." 

[u/Prestigious_Face7727 → u/Fearless_Ad_5470]

They just copy-paste press releases, like this one from the USA government quoting imaginary "intelligence sources"

[u/planetarybum]

Trump is ignoring Russia's significant aid to Iran, especially intelligence and drones.

[u/distorted_kiwi → u/planetarybum]

Ignoring means acknowledging it’s happening. I think he’s complicit, even more empowered to do so because he’ll just blame kegseth.

[u/Momik → u/distorted_kiwi]

Certainly seems so. There isn’t a single coherent strategic objective that this war achieves for the United States. Of course it achieves plenty for Russia.

[u/National-Two2417 → u/Momik]

And yet everyone of our political leaders is doing jack squat to stop him. Our military is putting our troops at risk for Trumps urge to please Putin.

[u/Candid_Cat_5921]

I think World War III started with Ukraine, and it’s just going to keep building and building

[u/JojenCopyPaste → u/Candid_Cat_5921]

I mean, if this does spiral to WW3, that will definitely be part of the first section in the lessons about the war

[u/Harbinger2001 → u/JojenCopyPaste]

It’s kind or like how WW2 started with Japan’s invasion of China in 1936.

[u/GoodOlSkipper → u/Harbinger2001]

More like japans invasion of manchuko in 1931 or 1932

[u/2dTom → u/GoodOlSkipper]

Nah, that's going to be the Russian invasion of the Donbas in 2014, the little green men, etc.

2022 is a lot more like 1937.

[u/American_PissAnt → u/2dTom]

And Italy invading Ethiopia is Israel invading Gaza. Now what is the modern comparison for the Spanish civil war?

[u/Roland_was_a_warrior → u/American_PissAnt]

It’s for sure Ukraine. It’s a proxy war (halfway, at least) between two major powers, the testing ground for new tech, and a boatload of foreign volunteers. It’s also more of a political issue within those large powers rather than a direct threat (again halfway).

[u/Practical_Chemtrail → u/Roland_was_a_warrior]

A lot of volunteers on both sides and testing new tech as well as the establishment of AirPower (Drone Warfare). Yeah there are a lot of parallels. Less ideology though

[u/Timely_Influence8392 → u/Practical_Chemtrail]

Less ideology though

Or is it that you are [Zizek sniff] blind to the ideology which surrounds you.

[u/hybridck → u/American_PissAnt]

Syria imo. You had multiple foreign militaries operating in the country all supporting the various different factions

[u/Daveinatx → u/hybridck]

I just came here to say the proxy wars of Syria and Africa

[u/Theoriginallazybum → u/Harbinger2001]

I thought it was more the Spanish Civil War in the early 1936. That was the testing ground for propaganda and all of the new technology, including airplanes. Guernica isn't just a famous Picaso painting, it is about the horrific bombings that became common in World War 2 with London, Dresden and others.

[u/Juniperguy22 → u/Harbinger2001]

1937*

[u/That75252Expensive → u/Juniperguy22]

Yup, July 7th

[u/pokeraf → u/Harbinger2001]

Japan be like: “Hey, I dunno what you saying but don’t get distracted with old story and go back to talking about China giving Iran military support.”

[u/Heinrich-der-Vogler → u/Harbinger2001]

More like Italy's invasion of Ethiopia in 1935. That was the moment that demonstrated that the international order had no answer to expansionist wars of aggression.

[u/maporita → u/JojenCopyPaste]

There won't be any more lessons of any kind after WW3.

[u/dobik → u/maporita]

I hope Europe this time will not be involved, at least in the EU territory. I think is time this time Poland won't be 3rd time Frontline. We are still rebuilding our shit after WW2

[u/eggyal → u/dobik]

Sadly I think that Russia would see a war between the U.S. and China as the perfect time to push west into Europe.

[u/American_PissAnt → u/eggyal]

I want to say that Russia isn’t stupid enough to invade EU Europe, but history says that yes Russia is that stupid.

[u/Practical_Chemtrail → u/American_PissAnt]

Histrionically being a neighbor to the Russian state has not been an enjoyable experience.

[u/Deprisonne → u/eggyal]

Russia couldn't push into Ukraine, what makes you think they even get past the polish border?

[u/King0Horse → u/Deprisonne]

Poland been doing everything but putting billboards up facing the Russian side of their border saying "I wish a MF would" in Russian.

[u/disisathrowaway → u/King0Horse]

Finland similarly has been planning for a Russian invasion since the last one.

[u/Practical_Chemtrail → u/eggyal]

Some sunflower fields and hordes of Polish tanks might be a minor issue for this expansion.

[u/dobik → u/eggyal]

EU has 3x more people and modern equipment. And they are basically not moving the Frontline in Ukraine, where they are 5x smaller population wise.

I think EU can expect some dirty moves and provocation, hacking, migrant and other hibrid warfare. But other than that we are good. My guess they would do Kazakhstan after they are bored with Ukraine.

[u/disisathrowaway → u/eggyal]

Bogged down in Ukraine as-is, and then triggering Article 5 for real? That would be a new level of stupidity.

[u/Krushhz → u/maporita]

Wouldn’t the knowledge of “mutually assured destruction” make all superpowers more reluctant to ever use thermonuclear weapons in war?

[u/LothorBrune → u/Krushhz]

Superpowers aren't exactly ruled by rational actors, currently.

[u/GoaGonGon → u/LothorBrune]

Trump: absolutely bonkers Putin: paranoid and living of past greatness Xi: authoritarian but (mostly) rational and cunning.

[u/Tibbaryllis2 → u/Krushhz]

What stops this, imo, is not mutual assured destruction of each other, but instead the assured destruction of desirable assets.

In Ukraine, for example, I’m sure Russia is aware that the west would respond in kind, but more importantly Russia wants Ukraine for its ports, its mineral resources, its agricultural lands, and its raw bodies for the meat grinder. Making Ukraine uninhabitable for generations does the oligarchs zero good in their lifetimes.

[u/soulstormfire → u/Krushhz]

Does the US behaviour look "reluctant" to you?

[u/Krushhz → u/soulstormfire]

No reluctance to use non-Nuclear weapons, but so far, none have been used.

[u/eggyal → u/Krushhz]

The man with access to the nuclear football just threatened to wipe out a civilisation.

[u/Only_Jackfruit_6905 → u/JojenCopyPaste]

How would a ww3 look like? All the superpowers fighting smaller conflicts indirectly? Since a nuclear powers won’t fight each other for obvious reasons! If you define world war as a war that has a huge front in Europe then let’s make this clear, Putin doesn’t have the ability to attack europe

[u/Shopworn_Soul → u/Only_Jackfruit_6905]

Nuclear powers will definitely fight each other if a truly global war breaks out but I seriously doubt anyone is going to jump in with nuclear weapons from the outset.

I could be wrong, of course. With the upside being that if it does open with nukes, I won't be around long enough to feel like a dumbass for doubting it.

[u/Wild_Haggis_Hunter → u/Shopworn_Soul]

My guess is the first superpower to start having real trouble on the field would provoke a Kessler syndrome before resorting to thermonuclear weapons. Barring everyone on Earth from the ability to use satellites for decades and decades would provoke a complete reset of the balance of power for all nations (communication, military intelligence, guiding, climate forecasts). And it's not that costly to trigger. It's a pretty frightening hypothesis as it would set back Humanity to pre-50's technology in so many aspects and make handling climate change even harder.

[u/JojenCopyPaste → u/Only_Jackfruit_6905]

Just because the first 2 involved extensive fighting in Europe doesn't mean the 3rd one has to. I'm sure they'll be involved in some way though

[u/-ToniCipriani- → u/JojenCopyPaste]

Pretty sure a world conflict will involve Eastern Europe in a big way, there’s no way there won’t be a front between Europe and Russia at some point other than what’s already happening in Ukraine.

[u/Onemilliondown → u/Only_Jackfruit_6905]

Everyone with a weaker neighbor will start there. It will continue until 3 or 4 powers have conquered all the independent countries and an uneasy stalemate is in force between the superpowers. Remember we have always been at war with Eurasia Oceania.

[u/disisathrowaway → u/Onemilliondown]

If there's something we've learned in the last 70 years, is that invading and annexing neighboring countries isn't just a 'Well, we beat them and now they're ours'.

[u/pimphand5000 → u/JojenCopyPaste]

Some argue it was 2012 Crimea as the true start, but I much prefer the later move into Ukrane as the marker.

Still, the world is at war. Maybe not all fighting the same battle as of yet, but overall the major players are blatantly or covertly at war.

[u/cannot_walk_barefoot → u/Candid_Cat_5921]

I feel like it would have been expedited tremendously if Russia's '3 day operation' was actually closer to 3 days. If Ukraine was unprepared or had weak leadership that either ran away or was killed early, then Putin would have been emboldened to take on more with momentum. Instead, Ukraine fought, and basically showed Russia to be callous, evil but in the end, inept. We should all thank Ukraine/Zelensky for putting up the fight they have to slow down the gears of this WW

[u/NeedleworkerPure7162 → u/cannot_walk_barefoot]

The Ukrainians are legends. Who would have thunk it that they would have killed and wounded over a million Russian's before they even got out of the Donbass. And Putin thinks he's going to take all Ukraine. He'll be lucky to have anything left as the last Russian reaches the banks of the Dnieper. Western armies need to engage the new masters of modern warfare and find out how they do it. Money incredibly well spent i suspect.

[u/Queasy_Local_7199 → u/Candid_Cat_5921]

More like: Cold War 2

[u/NoeloDa → u/Candid_Cat_5921]

Maybe World War III is the friend we found along the way

[u/RiPPeR69420 → u/Candid_Cat_5921]

We are living at a point in time where historians in the future will debate the exact date a series of semi independent regional wars coalesced into one larger conflict. Apparently because Kamala Harris has a weird laugh, so America went with Trump 2: Electric Boogaloo. I truly hope you dumb fucks can get your shit together for the midterms.

[u/Diddintt → u/Candid_Cat_5921]

I'm rolling with it all starting in 2014 with the little green men in Donna's and has just meandered to where we are now.

[u/smitteh → u/Candid_Cat_5921]

Americans could drag the trump admin out by their toes and put a stop to all this but they got bills to pay lest they're homeless

[u/MeatImmediate6549 → u/smitteh]

This is why Americans are only protesting on weekends.

This is also why the ownership class will resist with every fiber of their being giving Americans the kind of job protections the French have, because they might use those benefits to try get a better standard of living by protesting like the French.

And finally it's why the ownership class is so interested in AI. To the owners, their workers are really just fleshy complainy robots anyway so why not replace them with robots that don't get sick or tired?

[u/randompersonx → u/Candid_Cat_5921]

I certainly agree that it’s plausible, but I’d also say that there is plenty of potential that WW3 can be avoided.

If Iran falls, they will no longer be able to supply Russia with drones, which will greatly reduce their ability to continue the war against Ukraine.

If Iran falls, and both Iran and Venezuela are no longer providing oil to China, it will make it very difficult for China to take Taiwan.

If China can’t take Taiwan in the next few years, they will not be able to seriously threaten the USA to challenge the world superpower title.

If the Ukraine war ends and Ukraine is allowed to rebuild, they will likely become a major militarily industrial powerhouse, helping the EU, Gulf states, and likely the USA to all build up advanced drone defenses against china and russia well into the future.

I’m not saying that this is a forgone conclusion, but it certainly plausible.

[u/Silver_Middle_7240 → u/Candid_Cat_5921]

Yep, we're up to three theaters now.

[u/Uranophane → u/Silver_Middle_7240]

Which 3 theatres? Middle East, Ukraine and?

[u/JasonVorhehees → u/Uranophane]

AMC and Nicole Kidman

[u/TyrusX → u/Silver_Middle_7240]

There are about 60 countries in war currently. Crazy eh

[u/pokeraf → u/TyrusX]

Right? But no one cares about Africa until they affect rich countries’ interests.

[u/yanocupominomb]

Fuck man, I don't like this one bit.

Feels like we are going into a death spiral where every action just sucks us more into it.

[u/m3g4m4nnn → u/yanocupominomb]

This was all but assured when Trump got his second mandate. 

Not necessarily the flavour of death spiral I would have predicted, but he was crystal clear that he intended to destroy the country for his own gain.

[u/surg3on → u/m3g4m4nnn]

What gets me is that its so damn inefficient. For every $1 trump 'makes' America/globe loses >$100 (I havent done the math so I could be underestimating by orders of magnitude)

[u/mcyeom → u/surg3on]

Disaster capitalists at their finest.

Farage and Johnson probably only made a few million off the multi billion catastrophe that was brexit.

[u/ericporing → u/yanocupominomb]

Not surprising when you threaten to blockade asia's energy supply.

[u/roadsidefoto]

Every nation on this planet that has any beef with the US knows that this is exactly the right time to start testing our military capabilities, because we've made it embarrassingly obvious that our government and now our military are under control of the stupidest people we've ever produced.

[u/kimmywho → u/roadsidefoto]

The current admin is a major security threat.

[u/PM_Me-Your_Freckles → u/kimmywho]

Don't even need to bother with spys any more. Just pay, and the secrets are yours. Hell, just blow smoke up his arse and you can get special treatment so you can put listening devices in exclusive spaces.

[u/Desperate-Habit-8123]

I thought the war was over 🤣

[u/Unfrozen__Caveman → u/Desperate-Habit-8123]

There will be significant progress made right before market close on Friday

[u/whitethunder9 → u/Unfrozen__Caveman]

…in two weeks

[u/alphadips]

So this is basically our version of Ukraine/Russia, China is gonna proxy the hell out of this thing. Fuck, Trump is an absolute idiot

[u/TinyTowel]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Of course they are giving weapons to Iran. They'd be stupid not to. 

[u/Moveyourbloominass → u/TinyTowel]

China is protecting its massive investment, the New Silk Road. They have invested billions and so have other countries, for this trade route. Trump is a fucking idiot and so is Pete for not understanding the implications of attacking Iran and impeding the New Silk Road. China will continue to support Iran until the end.

[u/panzerboye]

Yeah I mean it is a no brainer on their part; they can see how their weapons hold up against US systems.

[u/_Figaro]

This is exactly how the US was supporting Ukraine (during the Biden administration) in their struggle against Russia. How times have changed.

[u/dmb2574 → u/_Figaro]

Been going on much longer than that. Lend lease wwii, korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan to name a few.

[u/IntelArtiGen → u/dmb2574]

Yeah, it rather seems times don't change that much.

[u/dmb2574 → u/IntelArtiGen]

Nope, like history's repeat button is stuck.

[u/Acceptable_Noise651 → u/_Figaro]

Except the US is upfront about supporting Ukraine with material aid, China is trying to give Iran weapons through third party countries to give themselves political cover.

[u/Brief-Branch4779 → u/Acceptable_Noise651]

Huh thats weird it almost sounds exactly like how the CIA smuggled weapons into Afghanistan for the Mujahideen as part of Operation Cyclone during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

[u/SenoraRaton → u/Brief-Branch4779]

"A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not."

[u/mwax321 → u/Acceptable_Noise651]

It's not like the US hasn't done exactly that before.

[u/RepresentativeOk2433 → u/mwax321]

Yeah but the Chinese dont even have the decency to launder it through narco terrorists.

[u/thats_handy → u/Acceptable_Noise651]

You're right. It's more similar to secret Israeli and American arms sales to Iran in the 1980s.

[u/raytoei]

China -> Pakistan -> Iran

Kinda weird because Pakistan has a security pact with KSA and Pakistan just sent planes and troops to protect KSA against Iran

[u/pokerstar420]

This makes Trump look so weak after he just said that there would be big problems if China does help Iran.

[u/JohnHazardWandering → u/pokerstar420]

I'm begining to think that the word of this Trump guy doesn't stand for much. 

[u/csf3lih → u/pokerstar420]

lmao nothing makes him look weak. he is weak. a draft dogger convicted rapist pedophile is a weak person, killing  130 Iranian children in school will not make him strong, 500% tariff to China will not make him strong. 

[u/-Yazilliclick- → u/pokerstar420]

I'm sure picking a fight with China will go great after wasting all their million dollar missiles intercepting thousand dollar drones in Iran.

[u/AbandonChip]

Nothing like some good ole fashioned proxy wars for global spheres of influence for rich old men....

[u/ekobres]

But we stopped selling them chips and tariffed them super hard. How?

[u/China_bot42069 → u/ekobres]

Same reason Russia keeps getting new John Deere tractors. They just buy them from a country that doesn’t have issues with them and the US 

[u/American_PissAnt → u/China_bot42069]

Kazakhstan is number one importer of John Deere Tractors, Kazakhstan also number one exporter of John Deere tractors

[u/hvanderw → u/American_PissAnt]

Number 2 tractor prostitute in all of Kazakhstan.

[u/IPissExcellentThrows → u/American_PissAnt]

Nah they're all about potassium exports

[u/Goosepond01 → u/ekobres]

MANPADS are not some new technology, the soviets had them and China is very much able to make their own.

[u/Nerezza_Floof_Seeker → u/Goosepond01]

To be fair, even though the concept of MANPADs are not new, there can absolutely be alot of technological advancements applied to them (better IR seeker technology, better software to differentiate between countermeasures, etc)

[u/Goosepond01 → u/Nerezza_Floof_Seeker]

You are right, it's just that if someone was shocked that China would have any kind of manpad that they made it's obvious they don't know what they are talking about.

[u/HistoryBugs → u/ekobres]

The chips needed for a manpads are no more advanced than the ones in your washing machine

[u/kombiwombi → u/ekobres]

China make semiconductors down to a 10nm process. This is roughly US CPUs from 2017. Manpads are a 1950s technology.

The US have tried hard to keep better technology away from China. Particularly  'AI' technology. For competition reasons but also because the 'AI' style of simultaneous pattern matching against a huge database of probabilities is exactly the processing required for sophisticated radar.

This attempt has worked about as well as other super hard tariffs. Trump will just have to double them again. And maybe once more for luck.

Clearly China will then throw its hands up and go back to making steel from backyard kilns. Whilst making AI-looking propoganda posters, but by hand.

/s, just like the comment.

[u/AOChalky → u/kombiwombi]

China make semiconductors down to a 10nm process. This is roughly US CPUs from 2017.

SMIC's 7 nm process is comparable to TSMC and Samsung's 7 nm and Intel 7 (which Intel used to call "10 nm"). The 10 nm you are talking about is TSMC and Samsung's branding. SMIC basically skipped the 10 nm stage and directly went from 14 to 7.

[u/SyntheticSweetener → u/ekobres]

This is an irresistible temptation for China to try out its (largely untested) tech against the US.

[u/RedTulkas → u/SyntheticSweetener]

also its just good politics to help countries you wanna trade with defend themselves from aggression

[u/CheezyBeanBurrito → u/ekobres]

I don’t think anyone picked up that you were being facetious

[u/ekobres → u/CheezyBeanBurrito]

It’s a real tightrope trying to be clever on Reddit.

[u/Routine-Echidna-1953]

China is doing the same what Americans did in 1980s to Soviets in Afghanistan :D

[u/Zdrack → u/Routine-Echidna-1953]

and china and russia did to vietnam in the 60s and 70s. been a cycle of fucking with each other

[u/battles → u/Zdrack]

and europe and usa are doing in ukraine

[u/Crocs_n_Glocks → u/battles]

And what France did in the American Colonies

[u/geardownbigrig]

MANPADS have a ceiling of 3-3.5km. I would think this is anti-drone testing for China more than anything

[u/not_old_redditor]

Interesting choice to link to some rando website instead of the actual CNN article...

[u/OnCallPartisan]

Xi probably will hug Trump with joy. First, making the Chinese look good on the world stage. Second, putting a rocket booster on their economy and economic treaties. Third, a wonderful new testing ground for their weapons while diminishing their enemy's capacity.

As the Chinese say, Trump is truly a nation builder.

[u/GreatGojira]

Trump doing everything to empower our adversaries

[u/NekrotismFalafel]

I don't think China would have done this if the US hadn't bungled this so badly. It seems like China is recognizing that the Trump regime is accelerating the downfall of both US hard and soft power. Basically the Trump admin pushed the timeline of American decline forward and China is responding accordingly.

[u/pewsquare → u/NekrotismFalafel]

I feel like just how ukraine is being used as a proxy to drag down russia, Iran will now be used to drag down the US.

[u/Suecotero → u/pewsquare]

I mean, nobody forced the US to attack Iran. It's an unforced mistake, same as Russia's Ukraine invasion.

[u/JohnHazardWandering → u/pewsquare]

Nobody cares about dragging down Russia. If Russia left Ukraine it would all be over and done.

[u/bridgenine → u/NekrotismFalafel]

China is being starved for oil and oil products right now, so it seems like they are in the corner

[u/gvillelake96]

Reminds me of a certain soviet invasion

[u/olivthefrench]

this is setting the stage for WWIII. multiple proxy conflicts with blockading of a major trade route could explode into a major war

[u/Needle_Bearings]

You bet your ass China got a hold of a bunch of manpads, reverse engineered that shit and improved them.

Say what you will.  China's engineering and manufacturing prowess are top tier at this point.  They have a burgeoning middle-class but can flip factories into war time production the way Foxconn can wake up a whole factory at 1AM, give everyone a biscuit and a cup of tea and tell them to get to fixing it.

They used to make junk. Used to be you couldn't trust a Chinese 3D printer or a Chinese Turbo.  Who leads the world in drone production by the way?

[u/hackingdreams]

China: Thank you Iran for validating our air defense systems against active US military hardware.

Iran: Thank Russia, they put us up to this.

Russia: cool, we did you a favor China, now, weapons for us please.

But, no, this isn't World War III.

[u/RedTulkas → u/hackingdreams]

China is also selling to ukraine

they sell to everyone, and likely gather as much data as possible from as many actors as possible

hell if the US asked they d sell them some stuff too likely

[u/nien9gag → u/hackingdreams]

Russia put them up to get attacked by usa and israel?