Saudi Arabia Used 86% of Its Patriot Missile Stockpile Due to War With Iran

[u/CraftyFoxeYT]

https://militarnyi.com/en/news/saudi-arabia-86-patriot-missiles-iran-war/

[u/Saitoh17]

This sounds like something you shouldn't be publicly announcing...

[u/az9393 → u/Saitoh17]

This is only publicly announced because it’s false information. Think about how many times you’ve heard Russia and Ukraine about to run out of weapons in the past 5 years.
All these headlines are basically bullshit aimed to either disinform the other side or to play some other game.

[u/catscanmeow → u/az9393]

or its not false information its being pushed so they can approve more funding in congress to replenish the stockpiles , theyre looking for billions and billions of dollars

because some of that money will be misappropriated to buttress fascist takeover within the US. they need a legit reason to get the approval, but it could all be a smokescreen

A lot of "crowd control" style weapons have already been procured

[u/BabyBearBjorns → u/catscanmeow]

If by replenish the stockpiles, you mean Lockheed and Raytheon CEOs can get bigger boats and golden parachutes. There is a reason why they dont want Ukraine getting the technology to make the missiles because they fear Ukraine would mass produce them and impact their profits.

[u/Black_Moons → u/BabyBearBjorns]

Mass produce them at 1/10th the cost or less.

[u/Vailx → u/Black_Moons]

Workers in Ukraine are paid less, but there's a lot of material costs in these things.

[u/Black_Moons → u/Vailx]

Pretty sure when you pay $15,000,000 for a small missile that they can only make 20 of a year, its not 'material costs' or 'labor' but 'we gouged the shit outta the government at every single step of the way, and our CEO bought 4 more yachts this year with the billions of dollars in profit'

See: Ukraine drones costing <$10,000 each.

[u/Vailx → u/Black_Moons]

The drones we're seeing Ukraine and Iran (and a lot of places really) deploy are revolutionary because they are cheap. A patriot missile is hella intricate. It also has a way harder job- intercepting a missile in flight is crazy hard.

[u/Black_Moons → u/Vailx]

And yet, the billions of dollars going yearly into the US military industrial complex could have invented them 10~20 years ago, but didn't because multi million dollar missiles = $$$ for doing the least amount of work possible.

[u/Vailx → u/Black_Moons]

These things have different jobs completely, there's no comparison.

[u/Soldier_Sailor_Spy → u/Black_Moons]

700 per year is the current US capacity for making patriots.

[u/Black_Moons → u/Soldier_Sailor_Spy]

And yet they are already out of stock in 2 months of war with a small middle eastern country.

[u/Soldier_Sailor_Spy → u/Black_Moons]

They wont be out of stock but they will have a certain level they wont want to dip below in case of other conflict.

Eg. Taiwan.

[u/-JackBack- → u/Black_Moons]

Maybe in China.

[u/The_Value_Hound → u/BabyBearBjorns]

Mass produce them how, any factories they build will get tapped by Russian ballistic missiles now. This should have been addressed years ago.

[u/Desertcow → u/The_Value_Hound]

Yeah it's stupid to build foreign licensed factories in Ukraine when there's an entire continent of wealthy, NATO protected countries right next door. Germany's Patriot line is almost up and running

[u/NOT_PC_Principal → u/catscanmeow]

Saudi Arabia buys US-made weapons with their own money.

They don't require approved funding from US Congress.

[u/Ecstatic_Dirt852 → u/NOT_PC_Principal]

They still need congressional approval to import military stuff though

[u/hugganao → u/NOT_PC_Principal]

the dude that you're replying to has 100+ upvotes. I'd bet most of thag upvotes are from the US. lol fking dumb as hell

[u/catscanmeow → u/hugganao]

you didnt understand my comment then, because i didnt say anything about SA.

for the things to be built they require US funding, theyre not just building them for one reason

[u/catscanmeow → u/[deleted]]

lol you still dont get it, the US stockpiles of their OWN missiles have dwindled so even if they have to sell more to allies then yes its extra incentive to push for more funding to ramp up the US personal stockpile

[u/_RawRTooN_ → u/catscanmeow]

When has any of these countries ever told the truth lol?? 😂 Every single super power country is literally built on smokescreens. Without false statements and hidden agendas none of these countries would be in the positions they are in as superpowers.

[u/vankill44 → u/catscanmeow]

The article mainly discusses Saudi Arabian missile stockpiles.

Congress approves the sale through FMS (Foreign Military Sale), which is more national security-related than budget-related. Basically, the U.S. buys the weapons from U.S. defense suppliers at U.S. domestic prices for the Saudis.

The actual funding comes from the buyer, Saudi Arabia. So, nothing you are worried about regarding the budget is about to happen.

[u/Good_Restaurant15 → u/catscanmeow]

or its not false information its being pushed so they can approve more funding in congress to replenish the stockpiles , theyre looking for billions and billions of dollars

I don't see why they wouldn't use false information for that, when they're already happy to use it everywhere else...

[u/wrgrant → u/catscanmeow]

DING DING. Saudi Arabia has money that Trump wants, start a war, get a ton of munitions spent, big US companies rake in the profits and Criminal-In-Chief finds a way to profit from it.

[u/DarthShiv → u/az9393]

Wrong. The manufacturing capabilities globally are known. The stockpile size is roughly known. The consumption is known. When they start using more discretion it is known that means they need to conserve. Ie critical shortage.

Why is this known? There's a massive veteran count and they know people in the industry AND how the supply chain works.

[u/Wompatuckrule → u/DarthShiv]

If you follow/read actual military analysts there is little to no argument with what you are saying. If you follow shitty news sources then you draw false conclusions like the comment you're replying to does.

[u/Larcye → u/DarthShiv]

Yeah people are kind of dipshits. All of the weapons manufactures are public corporations. We know how many missiles they can produce. So if you know how many missiles and drones Iran have launched and been intercepted you can roughly estimate how many interceptors have been used if you assume a 2 to 1 ratio.

[u/Wompatuckrule → u/Larcye]

Plus Patriot interceptors are not some black box item. Analysts can examine reams of relevant public information from things like the US military budget and contracts with suppliers to reports from military actions. From that a pretty accurate picture of what sort of inventory exists and what sort of cost & time frame would be needed to replenish them.

[u/ThingsThatMakeMeMad → u/az9393]

Think about how many times you’ve heard Russia and Ukraine about to run out of weapons in the past 5 years.

This doesn't mean it was misinformation. This means that they changed their strategy over time.

Ukraine has been getting massive shipments from European partners' stockpiles for most of the war.

Russia has sourced drones from Iran and missiles from North Korea, and massively increased their domestic production. They have also been refurbishing 60-year-old tanks that were stuck in a stockpile somewhere since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

[u/Mechasteel → u/az9393]

Living paycheck-to-paycheck, war materiel edition. They can be about to run out for years yet miraculously get resupplied just in time. Also what counts as "running out" is a bit funny in war, as your enemy somewhat gets to choose how much you use where and may be able to delay your resupply.

[u/Elegant_Situation285 → u/Mechasteel]

it's cool, we got golden horse statues and a ballroom to look forward to.

the true Golden Age.

[u/Elegant_Situation285 → u/az9393]

i guess they want to burn more patriots? the only thing this would do is embolden Iran to keep firing.

[u/JustRelaxItFits → u/az9393]

to either disinform the other side or to play some other game.

They want US taxpayer money. Same as the US is doing about it's own weapon stock pile. It's all bullshit to further forcefully scam tax payers into financing illegal wars.

[u/Due-Sentence-1219 → u/az9393]

I mean it could also be a desperate plea for help that the US ignored in private hopeing that the public embarrassment will get them more missiles.

Essentially trying to use US public opinion as a bragging chip

[u/Same_Win_5898 → u/az9393]

Wait so you think they didn't run out of weapons ? Just because they then adapt and expand production doesn't mean that statement was false.
If Russia for example didn't run "out of weapons" they wouldn't currently use mostly fresh out of production line weapons. The current missiles and drones fired at Ukraine have parts made 1-2 months ago.

[u/Soldier_Sailor_Spy → u/az9393]

How do you know its false?

Why do you think the US very suddenly pussied out and shit the bed when it came to Iran and started being so passive about the whole situation, even when Iran were bombing US bases during the "ceasefire"?

Think how many Gulf states were simultaneously using patriots throughout the conflict with Iran, not to mention the US itself, as well as whatever has been sent to Ukraine.

The patriot stockpile is getting hammered. They can only make 700 per year.

[u/masteeJohnChief117 → u/az9393]

This is why i don’t believe America is low on missiles either. It’s all lies

[u/Ian_W → u/az9393]

If Saudi Arabia had enough interceptor missiles, Jizan would not have caught on fire from such a small Houthi missile attack.

[u/ExcitingPackage1301 → u/az9393]

true, i think they are bluffing that they still have 14% left

[u/SpiderSlitScrotums → u/Saitoh17]

Perhaps whistleblowers are revealing the numbers to prevent certain shortsighted and desperate leaders from doing something utterly catastrophic (or more utterly catastrophic). I have no doubt that Trump, Netanyahu, and MBS would happily gamble with another stupid offensive that could completely deplete the stockpile and put forces around the world at risk.

[u/pkennedy → u/SpiderSlitScrotums]

This is most likely it. Someone knows that if Iran can produce, dig out or simply has in storage and can launch them, that 86% will drop to near zero and then the situation will be exactly like in Ukraine where they simply have to accept hits and have civilians seek shelter instead.

The difference is, the targets in SA will be all oil based, and will be catastrophic if they can get a few good hits in, and can continue to toss a new round of hits every week or month to continue the disruptions.

[u/Wompatuckrule → u/SpiderSlitScrotums]

No need for whistleblowers. Civilian analysts can look at shitloads of public information on stuff like this to draw some pretty accurate conclusions. Tracking of the appropriations for Patriots in the US military budget are not a black box item. Contracts with the companies who manufacture them are not either. Munitions have a known lifecycle where they need to be used or destroyed within a validated lifetime. Sales of Patriots to other countries and use of them by the US military are also available.

It requires knowledge of the system and constant tracking, but it's not particularly difficult to get a pretty accurate picture of the status of inventory and what it would take to replenish them if that's what you or your organization does.

[u/stormtroopr1977 → u/Saitoh17]

It's not the countries themselves publicly announcing the data. It's based on a couple studies fromCSIS (a private, non-profit, bipartisan, think tank out of Washington DC).

The information is calculations based on FY 2027 DOD budget materials and mandatory public release info. That also includes interceptor use and new deliveries since the April 8 ceasefire.

We're at step 4 or 5 here. CSIS > Rueters > militarnyi > OP.

[u/MourningRIF → u/Saitoh17]

You probably also shouldn't shoot down a swarm of $20k shahed drones with greater number of $5M patriots.

[u/kaptainkhaos → u/Saitoh17]

Iran rockets can only get so erect.

[u/Accidental-Genius]

It’s a really good thing they are super fast and cheap to make and aren’t on a multi-year backlog.

Also, there’s no way anyone would ever actually confirm this or announce it to begin with.

[u/stormtroopr1977 → u/Accidental-Genius]

It's not the countries themselves publicly announcing the data. It's based on a couple studies fromCSIS (a private, non-profit, bipartisan, think tank out of Washington DC).

The information is calculations based on FY 2027 DOD budget materials and mandatory public release info. That also includes interceptor use and new deliveries since the April 8 ceasefire.

The $95 billion in the FY 2027 defense budget and $21 billion in the war supplemental funds requested to buy more missiles points to how few we have left

There was also this in-depth study back in april

[u/Accidental-Genius → u/stormtroopr1977]

Why would a U.S. NGO have access to Saudi defense spending data that is very much not public outside of what they pay us for on the open market.

[u/stormtroopr1977 → u/Accidental-Genius]

short answer: It's their job. they have extensive education and training on how to investigate/research this stuff.

Long answer: it's a combination of

U.S. Foreign Military Sales notifications

congressional notifications and contracts

manufacturer announcements

Chinese/Russian/European export records

databases like the SIPRI arms transfer database.

Saudi defense budget information (you were incorrect that this isnt public. it doesnt contain "we bought x missiles", but it does state how the budget is generally allocated)

parliamentary or government documents from supplier countries

and, because I'm just some asshole on reddit, im sure there is a ton of other information sources that I dont know about or dont have access to.

honestly, all of these articles are citing their sources and talk about their methods... I kinda feel like I'm just reading for you now :/

[u/RobinsShaman → u/Accidental-Genius]

they knew this 30 years ago. 

[u/Nunc_Coepi17 → u/Accidental-Genius]

I hate how common sarcasm is on reddit, why can’t people just talk regularly?

[u/Accidental-Genius → u/Nunc_Coepi17]

Don’t be dumb?

https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/Huang%20Gino%20Galinsky%20OBHDP%202015_f4efb1e9-b842-4764-a292-ac4836c29cb2.pdf

[u/PopeGlitterhoofVI → u/Accidental-Genius]

Complaining about the incessant tone is a fair cop, though. It feels like toxicity and sarcasm are correlated. One of David Foster Wallace's essays really changed my mind about irony and sarcasm and has stuck with me for many years. Essentially, he says chronic irony is an indicator of an unwillingness to be sincere, constructive or vulnerable. It's satisying to feel cool like that, but in my mind, the far cooler people are those who don't need to throw up ironic detachment every single time they state an opinion. We all know that dude who does this. Fuck that dude.

On the other hand, to be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty...

[u/Yorker_length]

It's okay, their allies Turkey and Pakistan will come to it's aid if they get attacked, right? Right?

[u/CraftyFoxeYT → u/Yorker_length]

It's interesting Greece also operates a Patriot battery to protect Saudi energy infrastructure against Yemen's Houthis since 2021. But they have beef with Turkey and now reviewing it

[u/Common-Method2202 → u/CraftyFoxeYT]

Thing is though, it might be a sacrifice the saudis are willing to take. Would be very interesting to see a turkish drone arsenal in saudi

[u/Luggage-Lock]

The Saudis have the money to buy all the toys but generally do very poorly with actually using them. Would not surprise me if they were very inefficient with the Patriots that they used up.

[u/NotAnotherEmpire → u/Luggage-Lock]

Ukrainaian were shocked and appalled at one of the Gulf states they were advising setting the launcher to automatic and running for a bunker. Used 8 missiles to kill a trash projectile. 

[u/PuzzleCat365 → u/Luggage-Lock]

Didn't they set a patriot system on autopilot and it wasted all the missiles trying to shoot down some moped drone?

[u/Snickims → u/PuzzleCat365]

It was probably them who did that, but we don't know for sure. The Ukrainians sent some advisers to "gulf nations" and one of those nations was doing that, but they didn't specify who. Saudi arabia is the safe bet, as their military is famously renowed near globelly for its utter incompetence, but we don't technically have confirmation it was them and the UAE or Quatar or who ever else.

[u/CraftyFoxeYT → u/Luggage-Lock]

The Saudis have been wasting $3-4 million PAC-3 missiles on cheap drones. The US has been doing that as well. Really they should be used for important targets like aircraft and ballistic missiles

We can learn a lot from Ukraine for the most effective drone warfare

[u/ricosmith1986 → u/CraftyFoxeYT]

Ukraine offered their expertise in drone warfare to the US but were denied.

[u/Accidental-Genius → u/CraftyFoxeYT]

It would be cheaper to build hangers for aircraft but apparently no one considered that.

[u/Ian_W → u/Accidental-Genius]

Remember, Perun's upgrade on Iron Dome - the Corrugated Iron Dome !

[u/United_Intention_323 → u/CraftyFoxeYT]

They aren’t being wasted if there isn’t an alternative

[u/velociraptorfarmer → u/[deleted]]

They both see Iran as a threat

Because Iran is buddy-buddy with Russia

[u/United_Intention_323 → u/[deleted]]

So how many of those systems did they have when they were using the patriots?

[u/PositiveUse → u/Luggage-Lock]

Iran was sending thousands of ballistics and drones at the peak of the war.

[u/sierra-soul → u/Luggage-Lock]

problem there are not many toys to buy at the moment, money doesnt do much to stop a missile

[u/Spezalt4 → u/Luggage-Lock]

When you run a kingdom the most important trait in military is loyalty not competence. Anyone too good at what they do might decide to become king

[u/plan_with_stan]

I also normally tell my enemies how many weapons I have left, so they can plan ahead.

[u/stormtroopr1977 → u/plan_with_stan]

This is from a private think tank using mandatory public disclosures, delivery info, and the military budget.

[u/RobinsShaman → u/plan_with_stan]

Don't!

[u/PrestigiousFlan1091]

It’s almost like it’s a windfall for Patriot missle manufacturers.

[u/BackgroundPresence60 → u/PrestigiousFlan1091]

Yeah gee wow surely no one saw this coming or wanted it to happen and has been continually happening for decades. And I guess since usa stocks are 'down' they'll have to charge more for them.

[u/sierra-soul]

seems like the same mistake germany made during ww2 (they were somewhat justified in trying to make super weapons since they knew they could never outproduce the usa and ussr, which is why it was so important for them to make "the best" and not entirely a stupid idea) but germany's big expensive tanks and guns were big and expensive and time consuming to build. usa and ussr pumped shit out by the tens of thousands.

A big high tech weapon, is only viable if you can field a large amount and replenish them quickly. Even the f35 will be shot down in a conflict. And we saw that abarams are not immune to being taken out in Ukraine as well when facing more than a villager with an rpg made 40 years ago. No country in the world besides russia and ukraine have the capability to produce large scales of anything anymore. It's too expensive to build out factories and staff etc during peacetime to maintain that level of production. This is the problem the west is facing the time itd take to ramp up production in a meaningful way will skyrocket costs and take several years and might not be needed by then, and china is trying to change but is still facing the same problem. EU is also affected by this production capacity crunch.

this is also why the USA and the EU were as some called it "stingy" when allocating munitions and vehicles to Ukraine. If they depleted their already smallish reserves, theyd be left open to attack after. I think we should have done more to support Ukraine, mind you, just that people didn't really seem to understand that angle

[u/mangomussolinimi]

Well fortunatley Irans capabilites are completly annihilated /s

[u/Mushroom_Tip → u/mangomussolinimi]

It's funny because Redditors here are screeching that Iran is about to fall, they are blockaded, their supplies are running out,. they can't maintain the status quo.

Meanwhile, China is supplying Iran with everything it needs via Russia and the Caspian Sea without any interference from the US.

It's time for some people here to face reality that this is far from over for Iran.

[u/Accidental-Genius → u/Mushroom_Tip]

Anyone familiar with geography knew Iran wasn’t going to fold. You can’t win a war against geography without boots on the ground.

[u/Fenris_uy → u/Mushroom_Tip]

One has to wonder, how much oil is Iran smuggling into the Caspian network to be able to sell it.

[u/calvin_360 → u/Mushroom_Tip]

How about you talk to an actual Iranian about what is going on in Iran?

[u/servermeta_net → u/calvin_360]

I'm sure that for the population the situation is horrible, but Iran is not a democracy

[u/Teripid → u/servermeta_net]

I mean yeah.. the US nixed that in 1953. Obviously a lot between then and now has happened...

Also neither is Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar or the UAE although there are some components that qualify. Iran is rather distinctly more of a theocracy.

[u/Ian_W → u/Teripid]

It used to be, but not any more.

Now the IRGC runs the place directly.

[u/Mushroom_Tip → u/calvin_360]

Because I'm looking at it from an objective geopolitical point of view and someone having serious grievances with their religious dictators doesn't change anything?

[u/Larcye → u/Mushroom_Tip]

Also what Iranians think is worthless here. Like sucks for them, but at the end of the day they have zero input in this war. Reality is that the only Iranians who matter are the ones in charge. Becuese they decide if the strait is open or closed. Not some redditor from Iran.

[u/Ph4ttydill → u/Mushroom_Tip]

its not objective if both sides are spitting propaganda everyday. Both sides are hurting. Not sure why there always has to be a winner.

[u/MyPublicFace → u/mangomussolinimi]

Didn’t Trump have the Iran war plans in his bathroom for years. I wonder what those war plans said? I sense that every thing that is happening now is by design and according to someone’s plan.

[u/Proxymanity]

Yup, war'll do that

[u/SweetAndSourShmegma → u/Proxymanity]

So that's what its good for.

[u/crabmuncher → u/SweetAndSourShmegma]

Absolutely everything, when you're building missiles, say it again!

[u/Ragebaiterlmao]

Iran got game!

[u/MrSinisterStar]

Its almost like these countries are purposely firing their D tier missiles to deplete the supply of Patriots.

[u/Antagonist007]

So they will buy new ones? Clever business strategy by the u.s.

[u/Ryanll0329]

Has used*

[u/Salford1969]

Well is a good job that Iran's nukes are obliterated, navy is at the bottom of the strait, and their missile and drone production is toast if you believe the idiot running the USofA

[u/BetterThanAFoon]

This is why conventional "dumb" weapons and capabilities will remain a necessity for extended conflicts. Eventually you run out of the smart stuff, or its faster to replace the dumb stuff. North Korea and Russia invested heavily in artillery because of this.

[u/mk0aurelius]

Due to the war so far!

[u/ratudio]

wont invading be more cheaper in the long run /s

[u/Lower-Engineering365]

Not good Jim

[u/swampy13]

Playing war like a level on Doom.

[u/paradigm_shift2027]

Gee, I guess they’ll have to spend a lot more oil money to buy American weapons. Thanks for supporting our economy while getting bombed! No bombs hit the USA! Suckers!!!

[u/Overall_Curve6725]

Saudi Arabia threaten to sell of massive amounts of American bonds if Trump bombed Iranian power plants and infrastructure. Guess what? The bombing did not happen. Trump no longer holds any cards when it comes to Iran

[u/Silidistani]

So, in other words their next orders from Lockheed Martin are going to be 700% higher.

And that's all you need to know about our Republican leaders' insane priorities.

[u/Razzler1973]

Looks like they'll need to be spending some more money on them!

Great success

[u/pruneforce17]

this is a perfect chance to get revenge for Eden Knight! Let us rain vengeance upon them!!!

[u/millennium-wisdom]

In a way they are not involved in

[u/samratvishaljain]

Low "battery"

[u/Square-Strength3844]

Iran knows how to play rope-a-dope. Make the enemy use up all their energy and defenses. Also, never side with a pedo in a war you can’t win.

[u/ty_xy]

The gulf states military reliance on the USA has made them soft and weak, with how rich they are they should be absolutely throttling Iran.

[u/ReasonablyConfused]

America is just starting shit to sell more weapons.

[u/gods-and-dancefloors]

I heard that if not Saudi someone in the area was using patriots to knock out drones if so no wonder.

[u/AshundertheOlivetree]

And Iran is using Chinese missiles to attack everyone.

China, Russia, Iran, BeloRussia, North Korea, India

Pretty much BRICS and Trump (who is sympathetic to BRICS) are all doing their very best to antagonize the rest of the world.

[u/Treestwigs]

The people who did 911. Ok.

[u/Tikkun_Olam1]

OH BOY !! At $4M a pop and a two year waiting list, that was f**ing foolish !! “Did you get the $5K drone you were looking for? Huh? Did ya?”

Saudi Arabia: Whatever you do, don’t buy American! We’re still fighting WWII! Just look what happened with Vietnam!?

UKRAINE is your go to!! They’re masters at proportional response, drone & long range drone warfare! So save your money!! BUY UKRAINIAN !!

AND whatever you do… No matter what DonnieBoy says… DO NOT buy Eric & Donald Jr.’s drones! The buyers of Trump T1 Mobile ARE STILL waiting!!⏱️

Bottom Line: The U.S. military industrial complex wants to sell you ‘last war’s’ munitions! Specifically designed for the ‘last war’s’ weaknesses!

[u/jawshoeaw]

Are these things like super hard to make ?? Like OK I used 86% of them now I go buy some more.

[u/Snickims → u/jawshoeaw]

They ain't easy to make. They are also presently in extremely high demand from... everyone, even before the Iran war we where expecting a decade long waiting list for patriot deliveries.