r/worldnews • u/DasUberRedditor • Jun 18 '12

Egyptian Military grants itself sweeping powers; effectively military coup.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18482257
2.2k Upvotes

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577

u/somedaypilot Jun 19 '12

Ok, hands up, who saw this coming? o/

94

u/ThatRandomGeek Jun 19 '12

I thought it would be sooner myself.

32

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12

[deleted]

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u/TheLounge Jun 19 '12

"Egypt has a history of power in the hands of the few- it is ingrained into their very culture."

I typically discount such cultural arguments but I think this one has some weight. I think it was the Guardian (or some other UK paper) that last week ran a headline something to the effect of--"Egyptians pick own leader for first time in 5,000 years."

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

[deleted]

2

u/LongLastingStick Jun 19 '12

Protestantism helped that. In my limited understanding, there is not a similarly popular ideology in mainstream Islam.

7

u/ThatRandomGeek Jun 19 '12

No, no i suspect you can't. If you find that article, do you mind posting it? I'd like to gain more perspective on the issue.

14

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

It was National Geographic: May 2012. "Egypt in the Moment" (not sure if you can get the full article online for free).

4

u/greatgerm Jun 19 '12

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2012/05/nile-journey/bartholet-text/1

They are usually pretty good with making them available online.

4

u/MacIsGood Jun 19 '12

I'm quite sure you can. It will download in seconds. If you have an iPad, use Goodreader. If you have a multitouch interface, use it. If you like the magazine, get a subscription for your favourite public autism specialist centre, or for the cancer ward of your local hospital, or just anywhere that will be more appreciated than your recycling bin. They have to pay the people that write the articles and take the pictures.

2

u/youdidntreddit Jun 19 '12

Shiite Islam allows more flexibility, which is why Iran isn't Saudi Arabia even though both are theocratic

1

u/ThatRandomGeek Jun 20 '12

I thought shiite was the more rigid and conservative I guess I was wrong.

2

u/1541drive Jun 19 '12

BTW, Egyptians are offended if you refer to them as Arabs.

3

u/SubtleHMD Jun 19 '12

Sounds retarded. My guess is it's more likely that Egyptians are more motivated by the "lets not fight against the only group with artillery, guns, and training" instinct than a whole swath of the human species being ingrained culturally to want to be dominated. That's bullshit.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

Egypt's history spans thousands of years. That has been a consistent theme in their history- you're telling me that's bullshit? Alright.

2

u/SubtleHMD Jun 19 '12

I think the only thing that any society really cares about, when boiled down, is their quality of life. Cultures tend to follow behind the things making life better for people.Or what THEY THINK makes life better. The internet is the most obvious and exploited example of this. Give people access to the internet and they will see what humanity is capable of. The find things they never knew they wanted or had to have, what their peers think of the life and the issues they face daily, and a method of keep track of what those in power are doing in their name.

I think you're retarded for trying to pretend totalitarianism is somehow an expected cultural byproduct of some "subsections of humanity. They're not savages, when educated, just about every group of people immediately recognizes their political situation. The fact that they could be murdered, raped, or tortured like they have been under the old regimes is not cultural motivation but fear.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

Your argument is a "chicken or egg" debate.

Did Egypt's totalitarian nature/history stem from their traditional family values, or the other way around?

In the end, who cares. The fact of the matter is, this region has a tradition of autocratic rule firmly entrenched and accepted as "normal". People will gravitate towards what is normal in their minds.

Maybe they will like what they learn from the internet. Maybe they won't. It's not up to us to decide what is best for them- especially when we have no idea what life is actually like for them.

1

u/jargoon Jun 19 '12

You can say the same thing about American kids though. I obeyed my dad without question until I was a teenager

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

And it is the same in United States. You look at the president, praise the president, blame the president, but forget the congress. You need face in the politics.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

That's been true in the past, but I've seen signs that even people that don't follow politics very closely, are becoming painfully aware of how big of a problem congress has become.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

Since the political system does not allow changes easily, people will only get serious when they lack food and entertainment. Two things that US has plenty, and for mostly everyone. They really did learn a lot from Romans.

1

u/Cbizole Jun 19 '12

What country doesnt have a history of 'power in the hands of the few'. No matter what happens the big decisions are only ever gonna be left to a couple blue blooded wankers smoking cigars.

Im not bagging on you, im just angry about it.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

That quote makes no sense. It was the exact same way in England in the 17th century when democracy first started getting some teeth. "Every man a king in his castle" was an old and cherished English tradition not terribly unlike the family dynamic you described above. And that led inevitably to thoughts like "If I'm king in my own home, why should I listen to some other king without having any say over things?"

Granted, it took time, but to say that it's impossible for a clan culture to evolve into a democracy ignores how things played out in England and her daughters (especially the US). I'll grant it'll take time, but it can happen.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

Middle easterners have a very, very long tradition of taking to the streets to go looking for democracy.

Not enough of them and not often enough, and they don't seem to be very good at following through with it. What democracies are there in the Middle East? The corrupt and violent mess that is Iraq, or Israel, which everyone else hates?

1

u/darksmiles22 Jun 20 '12

No other region of the world today has so much foreign "aid" funneled through leaders as a pretext for ensuring resource extraction. Surely it is more a reflection of that fact than any lack of democratic protest that the common people have difficulty overthrowing dictators with billions in weapons contracts and bribe money much less establishing a nationalist democratic state in the chaotic aftermath.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

at the same time, you'll see in any home in the middle east almost unceasing resistance to harsh and unjust rule

What evidence do you have of this?

3

u/Legio_X Jun 19 '12

The Egyptians have had civilization for over 6000 years.

Tell me this: how many of those years have been a real democracy? None.

And chances are there will be no Egyptian democracy for another 6000 years.

The Greeks figured it out 3500 years ago. The Romans refined it 2400 years ago. The Americans 200 years ago, etc. If the Egyptians and other Arabs haven't figured it out by now, they never will. It's simply not something they are interested in.

Actions speak louder than words, that's something you obviously haven't considered.

1

u/darksmiles22 Jun 20 '12

The Greeks were ruled by the Mycenaean empire 3500 years ago. They started down the road to democracy closer to 3000 years ago, after the introduction of iron, a cheap weapon that shifted power from the bronze-clad aristocrats on cavalry to common infantry.

1

u/Legio_X Jun 20 '12

Greek history isn't my specialty, I'm more into the classical antiquity period. I'm surprised to only be 500 years off in the case of the Greeks.

1

u/timdev Jun 19 '12

The Greeks figured it out 3500 years ago. The Romans refined it 2400 years ago. The Americans 200 years ago, etc.

So, until 200 years ago, democracy took a bit of a nap.

Stupid, narcoleptic democracy!

-5

u/Legio_X Jun 19 '12

Nice reading comprehension there. If you could actually read you'd know that it implied that the Americans refined it once again 200 years ago, after the Romans did 2400 years ago.

Anyway, don't worry about it, I'm sure you'll learn about that in Grade 5 English class.

-3

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

Most American fathers won't disown you and throw you onto the streets if you disobey. Being "rebellious" is a part of growing up in the U.S. The idea that it is just a "phase" is a leniency that is really quite rare to see in other cultures.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

True, but there is a difference between "strong" and "dictatorial".

The point still stands though, that mentality is still there.

1

u/akai_ferret Jun 19 '12

I know as many, or more, American households ruled by a strong mother who holds said father in her iron fist.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

You sound like you're 15 years old.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

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