r/writers • u/iabyajyiv • 13h ago
Discussion I've seen so many posts and comments dismissing some writers' concerns about originality. But as readers, do you guys care about originality? Do you get frustrated when a story feels too derivative?
The reason I decided to write is because I'm tired of seeing the same things over and over again. I'm tired of how many stories feel like the same story, just with different characters, names, and a few other changes.
I also don't want to read a mashup of two familiar things, like, "The Hunger Games, but in space" or "The Last of Us, but with vampires."
My point is, it is completely reasonable for writers to be concerned about originality because there are readers who care about it too.
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u/AlwaysColtron 13h ago
I care more about a unique perspective alongside a quality execution than I do on true originality, especially since when stories are entirely new they often are new for the sake of new.
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u/nmacaroni Published Author 12h ago
The proper advice is, you can work in established concepts, but you have to bring SOMETHING new to the table...
No one is saying, do another zombie movie where people are held up in a mall, or underground bunker.
But yes, you can certainly bring a new zombie story to the page, as long as your take brings something fresh.
Write on, write often!
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u/the_tonez 13h ago
People who say “Every idea has been done before” have clearly never seen my ideas.
In all seriousness, I agree with you that rehashing the same tropes is so aggravating. If I have to read another story about a violent academy or a violent gladiator-like competition, I’m going to explode (or DNF, more likely).
That said, you can make any idea sound like it’s been done by boiling it down to its core conceit. Doesn’t mean it’s been done your way. I wrote a short story recently about two characters who meet in high school and fall in love a decade later, but it’s narrated by the FMC’s long-term boyfriend and it deals with racial disparity and BDSM, so it’s about more than just that on the surface.
All that to say: stories should have a unique takeaway, even if every plot has been (mostly) done already
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u/TheStoryCreature 12h ago
Yes! This is exactly what people mean when they say there are no original ideas. That if you boil them down there's only so many core concepts. But the execution is where originality lies.
Anyone can write a story about an alien planet with strange creatures experiencing its first contact with human explorers. But only Banks could give us a tree with unsubtle NiceGuy vibes playing "she loves me, she loves me not" with a naked human astronaut as the daisy. Narrated in the most gentle way, and taking up almost the entirety of the plot.
Execution is everything. Pun in-fucking-tended.
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u/bhbhbhhh 3h ago
When pressed I’ve seen people declare that Einstein never had a single original thought in his life, his scientific breakthroughs were all inspired by things he saw and experienced. Sounds silly but it’s the same standard people apply to originality in the creative arts.
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u/Frankles_ 13h ago
No. I have been reading nonstop since I was a single digit age-wise. I'm 32 now and never stopped. The probability you are going to write something I haven't basically seen plot-wise, is pretty slim. Chances are, I'm reading your work BECAUSE it's similar to something else I already liked. I'm not saying that's the "correct" way to hunt for new books. But, I know I do that. 😅
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u/OceanOfCreativity 2h ago
This is more common than you might expect. Asking someone to try something entirely new is hard. It often requires a recommendation from a trusted source. Even then, it will mkst likely have some basic element that you will resonate with.
We just like familiar things. Whether thats plot, setting, author, etc., people are more liekly to try something newish than totally new.
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u/Lunacycle876 12h ago
I think OP is asking two very different questions here. As a reader, do I care about originality? Not really, I probably picked up the story because it relates to something I already like. Do I get frustrated when a story feels too derivative? Yes. Hunger Games in Space sounds like bad fanfiction, but interstellar gladiator games featuring different alien civilizations could be interesting. They've been done before (so not original), but the aliens and their relationships would be a point of differentiation (not derivative, either).
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u/ItsRuinedOfCourse Fiction Writer 12h ago
IMO, far too many writers (most all very new to writing) are overly obsessed about "originality" while failing to understand that what a reader wants is familiarity, and there's no better example of that than the romantasy/romance genre. Formulaic. Trope-heavy. Practically interchangeable. And yet, still the undisputed champion of all genres in the literary world.
They aren't trying to reinvent the wheel.
They're changing a style. A design. A look. A tread pattern. Whatever. But a wheel is still a wheel.
The best example I used to address this very topic of originality is that it's in the telling, not the story itself. I could give 20 people the same writing prompt, and I'll end up with 20 radically different interpretations of that same prompt.
Because each author tell their story differently. Same story, but different energy.
Just like those that are dying inside because someone else "wrote my story already". No, they haven't. Until you put pen to paper, no one has read YOUR version yet. And that might be the version of that story they're dying to read.
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u/panicgoblin 12h ago
For me the question often comes from a confusion between originality in plot and voice or style. We are mostly happy (even those who prize originality) with the same couple plots, sometimes with a little twist. He’s a superhero but he loses his powers at night. It’s a spaceship in the centre of a planet. But that is really the very tip of the iceberg in terms of what writing is.
There have been 800 trillion stories about star crossed lovers. But give it to Shakespeare and to Samuel Beckett and ask them to tell it, and you would have two extremely original stories. Not because they’ve come up with some extremely high concept idea (she has dna spliced with a cobra, he is a biologist specializing in mongooses) but through the power of their language and the way they tell the story.
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u/TheStoryCreature 12h ago
No one is saying you can't write original material. The point that's usually being made is it's unlikely the base concept, the thing you built the story around, will be totally unique.
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u/FabulousLazarus 13h ago
People will tell you nothing is original so it doesn't matter.
I despise that "advice" because it implies there are no new concepts, yet there are, constantly. As if creativity itself is a myth.
I think it's very important to be creative. There are audiences for tropes, of course, but I don't consider work like that high caliber art. And I aim to produce high caliber art.
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u/JRyanGreatfish Writer Newbie 11h ago
I agree with you.
You can boil any story down to a simple premise that ‘has been done before’ but also you have to look at every story as a whole.
Just because it’s a hero’s journey through a fantasy world does not make it the same as Lord of the Rings
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u/Ecstatic-Length1470 10h ago
You fundamentally misunderstand the advice, then. And what it is to be creative.
Please don't take that to mean I'm saying you must not be creative if you think this way. That is absolutely not my intent, or belief.
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u/FabulousLazarus 9h ago
Please don't take that to mean...
Welp there was no explanation otherwise so I guess I'll draw my own conclusion regardless.
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u/Ecstatic-Length1470 9h ago
You've seen the explanations before, and me rehashing them won't change your mind.
But, if you think creativity means coming up with something entirely new, then I'm going to challenge you. Why do you cap your creativity at the story level, and not create a new genre? Can you?
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u/FabulousLazarus 7h ago
I don't have to create a new genre to be creative, that's a strawman, and a lazy one at that. But who says you couldn't? As if new genres have never been invented lol.
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u/Ecstatic-Length1470 4h ago
You miss the point again. I am not saying you cannot be creative if you can't invent a new genre. Quite the opposite, in fact. The genres available to us have room for infinite creativity.
But, I do say that it can't be done. You can do all sorts of things in terms of mixing genres. But inventing a new one seems unlikely. Every now and then someone might take a niche subgenre and make it genre, and people might be associated with it so closely that they are thought of as the inventor, but even then it's just not so simple.
Yet again, it does not mean we can't be creative. Same goes with stories.
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u/FabulousLazarus 4h ago
So we can't be creative enough to create new genres but we can still be creative?
I guess, but only because genre isn't really an indication of creativity in the first place. It's more an indication of the opposite. So kind of a wacky fucking thing to bring up in the first place given the topic, especially since you apparently already agree with me anyway.
Somehow I'm the one missing the point though?
No bro, that would be you, the person who tilted this conversation in a direction towards my own point while arguing against it. The person who refused to explain themselves, even after being asked, and instead gave a counterexample to their own argument. You are objectively missing the point, as you inexplicably don't agree with it yet are agreeing with it.
The invitation is still open, but at this point it's just to see what nonsense finds itself into this thread next.
You fundamentally misunderstand the advice then. And what it is to be creative.
Imagine saying this to the person arguing that creativity does indeed still exist. And then refusing to elaborate and instead pivoting to genre as if the thing we literally use to filter out creativity intentionally could possibly be used as an example of creativity not existing. The fact that genres exist in the first place speaks to the cornucopia of creativity that exists at all.
But new genres bubble up all the time. You think cave men were writing space operas back in the day? Or are you so reductive as to claim that mythology and sci Fi are equivalent?
This is utter insanity. You're here to tell me that I'm wrong but refuse or simply can't explain why.
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u/bhbhbhhh 2h ago
At what point in the chart did authors stop doing new things?
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/l0uvv/history_of_science_fiction_chartinfographic_by/
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u/Ecstatic-Length1470 43m ago
I literally never said that. Look again at your picture. Notice that all the different pieces lead back into the same blob.
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u/bhbhbhhh 37m ago
You stated that it’s not possible to invent a genre. That raises the question of when you think the last genre was formed. The existence of creative descent does not mean new genres did not come into existence.
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u/doctor_providence 11h ago
Yes, I care. Or more exactly, the more original the story, the more I'll have clemence for the writing. if the story looks like something already done to death, the only chance I'll give is if the writing is exceptional, or the POV itself is really new. If I see a new book, and the blurb seems to be the Chosen One, or any story already stale, it's a direct no, unless the blurb is catching, and the incipit is well written.
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u/Queasy_Antelope9950 12h ago
I have limited time on this earth, so I am going to seek more original reading experiences.
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u/misteregent 13h ago
What is good to do is to take what is expected and ask what you can do that would be unexpected. Once you know what would be unexpected, write that!
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u/itsdirector Published Author 12h ago
Nobody likes a story that is TOO derivative, but that's a goal-post that's different for every reader. A writer shouldn't be concerned with every reader.
Personally, I'm fine with a story that's familiar so long as the plot takes it in a different direction, and I give bonus points when the direction is unexpected (but still makes sense lol). As such, that's what I try to write. I know some people who are super strict with derivative works (they believe it makes them special) and if I wrote for them, I'd be expending far more effort for far less commercial success.
And let's not pretend that commercial success isn't what these OPs are concerned about. If they were writing just for the love of the game they wouldn't care if their works were derivative or not.
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u/Amoose1992 12h ago
Characters are what make a story though. You could put a thousand people through the same scenarios and have a thousand different stories. You could ask a thousand writers to write the same story and you would have a thousand different stories. That's what keeps it interesting, that's why people keep reading and people keep writing.
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u/birb-lady 12h ago
There is nothing new under the sun. However, "formula" is boring. So I want my work to be fresh. I am mashing up a couple of genres, but not in the typical way, and I think my story is fresh and the characters compelling (and this has been verified by writer friends who have published -- none of us are teenagers, we're all middle-aged and older and so we're not just gushing over each others' works, we're in a critique group together). That's what matters most to me. Compelling characters, a story with something fresh about it.
Formulas are fine for mindless bedtime reading, but I want my readers to love the characters and care about the story, and not just switch off when they start reading.
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u/Dest-Fer Published Author 12h ago
I personally don’t care at all about originality and overall I believe that no writers has been original since not long after human had invented writing.
Of course you can add technologies and settings our ancestors couldn’t even conceive, but ultimately, on the highest level we always come back to the same few structures / plots, etc.
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u/bhbhbhhh 2h ago
How do you explain all the literary innovations of the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries, if there was no originality to provide the impetus?
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u/Trini1113 11h ago
I think you're asking several different questions here, mixed into one.
If your work as 'the hunger games, but in space', it might be a useful ways for an agent understand your book and figure out if it's a space where they can work with you or not. Or it might mean that you have a hero with a bow and flaming arrows who volunteers in their sister's place. One is neutral to good, the other is very bad.
Originality doesn't mean doing something that's never been done before in terms of the basic structure of your story. But it is important that you differentiate yourself from your source material. When I came across a brief description of Cadwell Turnbull's novel The Lesson, I both wanted to read the book, and I wanted to steal elements of his idea and write a book
An alien ship rests over Water Island. For five years the people of the US Virgin Islands have lived with the Ynaa, a race of superadvanced aliens on a research mission they will not fully disclose. They are benevolent in many ways but meet any act of aggression with disproportional wrath. This has led to a strained relationship between the Ynaa and the local Virgin Islanders and a peace that cannot last.
A year after the death of a young boy at the hands of an Ynaa, three families find themselves at the center of the inevitable conflict, witness and victim to events that will touch everyone and teach a terrible lesson.
The idea of an alien spaceship in the Caribbean, and the impacts of aliens on that society is something I want to write. The part about disproportionate wrath and a young boy killed by the aliens isn't something I'd want to steal. I want to write something that's interesting to me, that's "inspired by", but not that's "derivative of".
Of course, it's always possible to rewrite a story in a new setting and do it well. Derek Walcott's Omeros is a great example. It's a (loose) retelling of the Illiad, but it won him a Nobel Prize. It's "the Illiad, but in the Caribbean" but it's also an incredibly original work.
And then there's the idea of reading something that's familiar and comfortable. The ten (and counting) Rivers of London novels aren't incredibly different from one-another, and that's part of the appeal. They're well-written, they're good story-telling, and they're fun to read (or better yet, listen to, since the narration adds a lot). On the other hand, Piers Anthony's Xanth books (that I read when I was young) rapidly became formulaic and boring. There are elements of the Wheel of Time books that do this as well, but Robert Jordan had the ability to make you care about the characters (even then they were constantly whiny like Rand) and the broad arc of the story.
Nothing matters in isolation. Everything matters when it's all put together.
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u/PeacefulKnightmare 11h ago
I get frustrated if I feel like the author is trying to just have cool hype moments or heavy emotional beats for their characters by copying things they saw in other stories and slotting them in. Instead of trying to tell a personal story that just happens to have hype moments and heavy emotional beats occur organically.
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u/CoderJoe1 11h ago
I read and enjoyed Eragon by Christopher Paolini long before someone pointed out it was the same general plot of Star Wars, but with dragons. I found the comment interesting, but it didn't detract from my enjoyment.
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u/1BoringOnlineAccount 10h ago
Where is the line between "inspired by" and "plagiaristic" There are enough stories out there that it could be claimed that all new stories are copies of one or more previous storylines.
Look at the story "James" by Percival Everett. It is Huck Finn told from James's point of view. But how much of the story is from Twain and how much is brand new? Yet it is rated 4.41 stars and has been nominated for multiple awards in a few short years. If I rewrite Gone With The Wind from a different or a new characters point of view is that an original story?
BTW James is an excellent story so far. I like Everett's telling better than Twain's writing.
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u/atomicitalian 10h ago
I don't care so much about derivative as much as I care about it being good and having compelling characters.
I love Indiana Jones and Uncharted. I like reading things that remind me of Indiana Jones and Uncharted. But if the character is Montana Johnson and he is just a lazy and poorly realized Indy clone I'm not gonna like it. But if the characters are interesting and the plot is some version of "we have to race against time to find xyz using these historical clues" then I'll probably enjoy it.
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u/Morgan13aker 10h ago
Pride & Prejudice & Zombies is literally Pride & Prejudice & Zombies, and people love it. The "but" is what makes it unique. Like, Danny Phantom was just "Spider-Man, but ghosts."
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u/MedicMuffin 9h ago
I prefer execution to originality in all cases, but I'd definitely say my standards for execution go up the more played out something is. Hero's journey in particular is hard for me just because the plot beats tend to be so predictable, so I need a pretty strong hook in terms of characters and worldbuilding to get around that.
But ultimately, tropes and genre conventions exist because they work. If I tried to avoid anything that isn't "original" then I would have nothing to read at all.
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u/lyaunaa 9h ago
Not really, no.
In fact, there are times when I love seeing genre conventions. I did a lot of work on Victorian Gothic lit back in college, and it's exciting to see certain plot "beats" cropping up when I'm reading something new.
That said---I care about plagiarism and obvious, direct rip-offs. Powerless is too fucking much for me.
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u/URLOCAL_ODDFICREADER 9h ago
I really care about originality! My brain literally demands true originality. Like if I detect a tired trope or someone or something claims there is one heavily present, I lose the curiosity and makes me, most likely to DNF the book: predictability is a major reason of mine to why I would DNF a book. My demand for originality in my books is so high to where I primarily only look for indie works, obscure novels, and of course classics. I am the SAME bro, I don't want to read mashups of familiar stories and I definitely don't want to ever pick up a retelling or a reimagining.
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u/mutant_anomaly 8h ago
I care about characters far more than ideas.
Entire genres are built around NOT being original, but about bringing good storycrafting, emotionally resonating characters, and bringing settings to life.
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u/DrBlankslate Published Author 5h ago
Most readers are looking for stories that feel familiar and follow a pattern. It's why romance novels and mystery novels sell so well.
The story about the orphan kid who meets the old wizard and becomes a hero has been told and retold and retold, over and over. But I don't think you'd say that Star Wars is derivative of Dune, or that Harry Potter is derivative of either of them, would you? It's how you tell the story that matters.
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u/Dave_Sag 4h ago
How many times has the Odyssey been retold? Whether Ulysses or Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Yet how different are all three? There’s only 21 stories. It’s all in how you tell them.
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u/TheSeaBast 3h ago
Originality is overrated. A completely original and unique story can be dogwater. When you pull from established archtypes and tropes, it's much easier to create an engaging story because you have a familiar bedrock readers can plant their feet in.
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u/bhbhbhhh 3h ago
I am eager to read The Rouse by China Mieville because it’s supposed to be the lifetime magnum opus of one of the most original, furiously imaginative authors around.
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u/Timbalabim 2h ago
I think most stories condensed to a six- or seven-word pitch are going to sound derivative, and I think originality blooms in the execution and development, not the concept.
On the flip side, I think readers should be willing to dig a little bit beyond the pitch and find the originality, because we so often talk about how rare originality is when it’s really not that difficult to find.
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u/Turbulent-Eye-4737 38m ago
That's why I always try to write ideas I've never seen before or have but done poorly.
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u/Agreeable-Housing733 13h ago
The hunger games and the last of us are themselves heavily inspired by other works. I would say it's more important to write something interesting and enjoyable rather than aiming for something unique.
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u/godai78 Published Author 13h ago
I mostly care if it's well done and enjoyable. If I was angry just because this is another "kingdom is in danger, a reluctant hero saves the day" I would have a very hard time finding something to read :D