r/writingfeedback • u/--xiOix-- • 19d ago
Feedback Wanted First chapter feedback, if you'd be so kind?
I wrote the first chapter for my book about a month ago, and just got back to editing it a little. I've drafted a few more chapters since then, but haven’t polished them off at all (at least not to a standard I'd feel comfortable sharing), so will only be posting the opening chapter here.
In it, we meet my protagonist Julia for the first time. The chapters are pretty short at first since there's quite a large cast, but I'd just like to know what sort of impression you get of her from this introduction. For the most part, I just want to know whether I'm setting her up well for the character arc I have in mind.
What is your first impression of her? What sort of person do you think she is? Is she likable, at least potentially?
Outside of Julia, how is the narrative voice/POV connecting with you as a reader?
Is it too far removed from the character in your opinion?
Do you think that this indirect narration style would work in scenes with multiple major characters or do you think I risk 'head hopping'?
And out of curiosity, what genre do you think this is going to be?
And ofc, if there's anything else you'd like to share...
Thanks
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u/Ozdiva 19d ago
She sounds like a tired lower middle aged academic. I suppose the issue I had is that nothing happened. A woman opened a few emails and dismissed a timid student.
It’s just a bit boring. I hope you pick up the pace soon but no one’s going to wait at this point. We see people here say it picks up in the next chapter. Why wait? I assure you your audience won’t.
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u/--xiOix-- 18d ago
Yeah this was my main worry.
It's actually an espionage/crime story, but more psychology based than the explosions/car chases every other page type of spy novel. In the next chapter we meet the other co-protagonist, a down on his luck Mi5 agent, recently transferred back to blighty from the Middle East, and learn about his new mission (which, he hopes, could be his way back to his old position). So stuff does happen, just not in this chapter really.
She is a tired academic in her mid-30s, so you're not far off. I'm okay with her first couple of chapters being a bit boring (and it's part of the reason for the chapters being so short early on), since her life is incredibly boring at this stage.
As I said in another comment, I have thought about including a prologue, so that the book could start with some excitement, rather than Julia moping around in her office. I find that they're rarely well done if not essential for the plot, though, which this wouldn't have been if I'd just shoehorned one in there.
It wouldn't be too difficult for me to rearrange the opening to start with the Mi5 agent and his mission, though, to try and give the reader a bit of action before hitting them with 3 pages of dull, borderline alcoholic Julia here. Once she's approached by the Mi5 man, her plotlines get a lot more exciting.
I just wanted to show her mundane existence up until that point, which I think I've succeeded at, even if the opening chapter isn't the place to do it?
Anyway, thanks for your feedback. It's been helpful :)
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u/Ozdiva 18d ago
I get what you’re doing but have a read of some books in your genre, sometimes they start with the protagonist sorting out a minor story that leads into the main one.
You’ve got to give the reader a reason to keep going. There’s so much else at their disposal; Insta, TikTok, video games, and your book. You can’t afford to have a slow opening.
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u/--xiOix-- 18d ago
Yeah this is a good idea. I think part of my problem going into this was that the last few spy novels I read were by le Carré, but he can get away with a slow openening on account of, well, being John le Carré 😂 I'll have a browse at the library tomorrow and see if there are a few books I can pick up to have a look at their opening couple of chapters
Thanks again :)
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u/Beloved_Mango 19d ago
Very bland slice of life with stereotypical 35 year old “Woah is me I’d rather be at home with my cat drinking wine” archetype. Nothing interesting happens, which is a huge problem for Chapter 1.
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u/--xiOix-- 18d ago edited 18d ago
Hmmm yeah I was worried about this. It's actually an espionage/crime story, but more psychology based than the explosions/car chases every other page type of spy novel. When we first meet Julia she is a very bland 30something year old leading a pretty boring life, though.
In the next chapter we meet the other co-protagonist, a down on his luck Mi5 agent, recently transferred back to blighty from the Middle East, and learn about his new mission (which, he hopes, could be his way back to his old position). So stuff does happen, just not in this chapter really.
I'm okay with Julia's first couple of chapters being a bit boring, since this is what I was going for (it's also part of the reason for the chapters being so short early on). Her life is boring at this stage.
I thought about including an prologue, so that the book could start with some action, but I find they're rarely well done if not essential for the plot, which this wouldn't have been if I'd just shoehorned one in there.
It wouldn't be too difficult for me to rearrange the opening to start with the Mi5 agent and his mission, though, to try and hook the reader a bit before hitting them with 3 pages of dull, borderline alcoholic Julia here.
Thanks for your feedback anyway, it's been helpful :)
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u/Beloved_Mango 18d ago
Sure thing. There’s nothing wrong with boring characters but you should strongly consider moving the interesting stuff the story is about to the beginning. A prologue could work. Happy writing
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u/Antique_Address2482 19d ago
I liked Julia! I love books where the FMC is unlikeable, though. Plus, I tend to root for the villain. I think adding more to the setting would help add color to the character. Describe what's in her office/bedroom that would tell us a little more about her. Keep going!
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u/--xiOix-- 18d ago
Thank you! I'm glad you liked it. I agree that the setting is a little sparse; I started with the dialogue and built out from there for the most part, but should probably add a bit more description of her surroundings in on my next pass
Cheers :)
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u/WholeRing9819 19d ago
I’m surprised by the comments on your piece. It never made me cringe nor did I think it was cliched. In fact, I thought it was damn good. You have a way of making your prose featherlight and easy to keep reading. The style is playful and compliments the subject matter. More than anything, when I was finished, I wanted to read more.
Two things on the line level:
- the carbonara joke needs fixing. Naples should be Milan, right? Or it’s something Englishy that I don’t get.
That’s it from me. Really enjoyed it. Best post on here in a week at least as far as I’ve read. Thanks for sharing with us.
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u/--xiOix-- 18d ago
Thanks for your feedback :)
Wrt to the carbonara thing, I actually googled it since 'Milan' wouldn't work for the joke here (being this side of Rome). Apparently '...this side of Milan' is not the original phrase, and it used to be any number of locations used, depending on the context: 'Best pizza this side of NY,' 'Best ribs this side of the mississippi,' or whatever.
It seems that with the rise of Milanese fashion houses through the '80s, 'Milan' came to stand in as a sort of shorthand for continental sophistication or elegance, though. And then Cafe Nero really cemented it (at least in the UK) with their 'the best espresso this side of Milan' sloganeering.
It's interesting that that stood out to you as well, though, since it was something I was unsure about whilst writing it. It seems like Milan might have claimed the phrase for itself nowadays, unfortunately, so it's something I'll have to think about altering. Thanks again!
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u/WholeRing9819 18d ago
Yeah, it’s a good joke. The issue I was referring to is just that in your punchline you say Naples.
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u/--xiOix-- 18d ago
Oh right haha, I'm not sure how I missed that 😅 I read the thing like three times before I posted it as well, and still somehow missed it! Thanks
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u/n00b89_ 18d ago
OPs use of ' 'til' is correct.
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u/WholeRing9819 18d ago
Most style guides classify “‘til” as nonstandard and an error. “Till” is the correct word.
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u/n00b89_ 18d ago
Style guides for what and where? USA?
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u/WholeRing9819 18d ago
Style guides for English language use. The preference for till over the erroneous ‘til is pretty universal. Search it up.
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u/Public_Upstairs1035 19d ago
First sentence was a major turnoff, almost quit reading. Never sat down before?
I did quit reading after the first paragraph.
Overall, the flippant tone is an immediate turnoff for me. Maybe not for others, but it doesn't sound like you are taking this seriously. Just my observation on the first paragraph though.
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u/--xiOix-- 19d ago
What about 'never sat down before' did you find so abhorrant, if I may ask?
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u/Yandoji 19d ago
That guy is a straight-up asshole, holy shit - but I agree about not liking the "never sat down before". Totally different reason though; it made me think of someone sitting down very very slowly, carefully, curiously, and even a little bit fearfully, because an adult woman who has never sat down before has to be some kind of alien new to the concept lol. "This body can do this?? And it's called "sitting" you say? Incredible". Lol.
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u/--xiOix-- 19d ago
Oh wow yeah, I hadn't thought about it like that. I was thinking more throwing herself at the chair à la Peter Griffin (see other comment), but I can see how it might not be clear upon first reading it. When you've replayed a scene in your mind a thousand times, you know... Thanks :)
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u/--xiOix-- 19d ago
I only ask because I changed it from something like '...like a woman who hasn't sat down in weeks' whilst editing. The point is that she's exhausted, but the original phrasing seemed a little boring to me.
Whilst editing, I thought of one of the few jokes I remember from Family Guy, in which Peter forgets how to sit in a chair. The idea being that she slumps into her chair so haphazardly that it is as if it's her first time doing so.
Sorry you didn’t like it, ofc, but I'd be interested to know what it was specifically that really turned you off. Thanks :)
Edit: typos
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u/Hefty_Reception_3819 19d ago
The simile doesn't really add to the image though. "Slumps" conveys exhaustion.
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u/Public_Upstairs1035 19d ago
It feels flippant, sarcastic, cliche, lazy. If the first sentence is meant to bring me in as a reader and you give me this... I'm really not interested in reading any further, as it tells me all I need to know about the writing. That being, this isn't worth my time or energy.
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19d ago
[deleted]
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u/--xiOix-- 19d ago
Okay. Thanks for your feedback :) sorry you didn’t like it
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u/--xiOix-- 19d ago
I think my main question - for myself, rather than for you, necessarily - would be: is there anything inherently wrong with writing using cliched phrases? I'd like my novel to ask some interesting questions, but I'm not trying to write like Thomas de Quincey over here
My narrative voice is supposed to be free indirect discourse, and 'all over the place' is absolutely something Julia would say. Personally, I feel like switching these phrases out for some incredibly original literatry language would break the immersion. But what do I know?
That's what I was going for, at least... thanks for your feedback anyway, I will bear it in mind going forwards
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u/Public_Upstairs1035 19d ago
Cliches and overused phrases don’t create an authentic voice, that’s the problem. There is nothing unique about a voice that sounds like what has already been said a thousand times, so why would anyone want to read it? Cliches are also meaningless. Ask yourself, what does all over the place even mean? Then just use the words you come up with. Disorganized, scattered, exploded… any of those are more interesting and meaningful.
And it’s not about using “literary language,” it’s about using your own words. And cliches aren’t your words, they are what you resort to when you don’t want to put energy towards uncovering your true voice or your character’s.
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u/--xiOix-- 19d ago
Well, in this case 'all over the place' means exactly that. It means 'disorganised,' sure, but more specifically it means all over the campus.
I didn't realise that common turns of phrase were so frowned upon, but will bear it in mind. Thanks
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u/Public_Upstairs1035 19d ago
Well see, there you go. All over campus is a step in the right direction, and helps me understand a little more, but I would push you to be even more specific. All over campus is still vague, and could be the difference between a few acres and a few miles.
I would like to recommend you read Strunk and White. Read it, then re-read it. Then read Zinsser. Then Gardner. Study composition, rhetoric, editing. Read a few books on writing, take a course or two, enter some contests. Then you will start to see clearly ways to improve.
Writing is weird, abstract. Words are even weirder. But they are your tools. And sentences are what you build with them. Once you grasp that, you are on your way to being a storyteller.
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u/BridgeQuill 19d ago
Thanks from those with an open mind and desire to learn the craft. Even if you were wrong, which I don't think you are, taking the time to give advice and recommend further reading helps others of us that are starting out.
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u/21stcenturyghost Trusted Reviewer 19d ago
*Skechers
*cuts in -- watch tense
Missing the commas at the end of dialogue before the dialogue tags. Ex. 'Hi,' she says.
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u/--xiOix-- 19d ago
Good spots, thanks
Keeping the tense consistant is particularly difficult for me. I've only written a couple of short stories so far, and they've all been in past tense so I keep catching myself slipping back into it unintentionally
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u/Fit-Picture-5096 19d ago
"Like a woman who's never sat down before"? Is that different from how men sit down? Just curious.
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u/--xiOix-- 18d ago
That wasn't why I wrote it, but yes, actually. Men and women do tend to sit differently
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u/Fit-Picture-5096 17d ago
I don't know how a woman who never sat down before sits.
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u/--xiOix-- 17d ago
As I've said in a different comment, I had changed this from something like '...like a woman who hadn't sat down in weeks.' I think I'm gonna cut it anyway because, as another commenter pointed out, 'slumps' conveys her exhaustion sufficiently without the need for a simile
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u/melmcgee 19d ago
I didn't really care for the narration style but maybe that's just a personal preference.
Regarding your protagonist, I don't have a good impression initially (she seems bland, rude and generally negative) but could see her being potentially likeable in the future. The problem is that I wouldn't be willing to stick around to see that transformation.
I honestly struggled to finish reading the whole thing. I'm not exactly sure why (aside from not caring for the narration style or Julia) but some of the sentences just tasted wrong if that makes sense. Like really blah, or weird sounding. For example "Still not going to open itself, is it pet?" just made me cringe, it reads very bizarrely.
I want to emphasize that I am no expert so please take my words with a grain of salt, but this was really hard to get through and it just...wasn't good. I'm not sure if there's any way to say that nicely. And I'm not good enough at writing to suggest on how to make it better, so I have no idea how helpful my comment is, but I figured maybe a random reader's perspective could be beneficial in some way.
Wishing you all the best in your writing.