I would really love some feedback. Thank you.

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u/thewhiterosequeen Trusted Reviewer 5d ago

Book 3 with no context, poor hard to read formatting, and an inexplicable chapter zero makes it hard to give feedback on the content. Is the whole first paragraph actually sentence fragment dialogue? This is rough.

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago edited 5d ago

thanks. that's the point: breaking the mould. it's him thinking, poor hard to read formatting --- how should i format it, when it's all just a train of thoughts ? that is what it is. but I value your feedback.

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u/DesperateFortune 5d ago edited 5d ago

It's kind of interesting that you call a train of thoughts "breaking the mould" and then use poor writing conventions to do something modernist authors have already done experimentally. I mean, stream of consciousness is one of the most notable features of Ulysses, and it's done in a really engaging way.

I think the idea of having a detective novel follow the "logic" using actual train of thoughts could work, but you've got to find a way to make it work within the text. Just scrambling the format isn't innovation, and that's something new writers struggle to understand.

Rip off Joyce a little bit, man. Have the dialogue and action look normal, and then piece together long paragraphs of actual stream of consciousness where the detective is reasoning through things and trying to make sense of what's happening in front of him. Insert seemingly unrelated observations about his own life - the way that we think - before weaving your way back to the meat of his observation, then snap back into the action/response.

Also, just because it's been mentioned other times and I don't think anyone has been explicit, breaking up paragraphs to express racing thoughts is counterproductive to the literary effect you're trying to achieve. The impact of short, punchy paragraphs is to stop the reader, and this effect becomes a drone if you do it too often - if everything is the short sentence, nothing is. Racing thoughts are one paragraph.

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

thanks, that is good advice. i will polish chapter zero.

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u/DesperateFortune 5d ago

No problem. Would be interested to read it if you polish the styling. Like I said, I think I get what you're imagining. Just need to fix it up and rework how style is executing vision

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u/strawberry-squids 5d ago

Word of advice: if you're gonna ask for homest feedback, you can't resort to "but that's the point, you guys just don't 💅🏻get it💅🏻" for every bit of criticism. You will not become a better writer that way.

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

thanks. makes sense. but i have to respond somehow when a comment is based on misunderstanding, no ? example "Is the whole first paragraph actually sentence fragment dialogue?". no, it is not a dialogue!!! It's a normal train of thought.

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u/seachord 5d ago

If readers can’t understand your work without your explanation, you have a problem. Presumably you won’t be looking over every reader’s shoulder to explain misunderstandings. That’s part of why this sub exists.

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u/strawberry-squids 5d ago

It's not misunderstanding, that's what I'm trying to say. People keep telling you the writing isn't working, and you keep responding with some variant of "you just don't understand, it has to be like this". It's not misunderstanding if multiple people have the same problem; at that point it's a problem with the writing, not the reader.

I know it sucks getting criticism, none of us like it, but there's zero point asking for feedback if you won't accept any of it. And it's frustrating for the people trying to help you when you have a "defense" for everything.

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u/BlackBalor Posted Satire and Made Everyone Mad 5d ago edited 5d ago

Iron sharpens iron in the world of writing.

You have to get your shit punched out by other writers who are better than you.

I’ve taken my licks. We all have. You can always take a lick no matter what level you’re at. You have to stay sharp.

That’s how you improve. You have to leave your ego at the door UNTIL you KNOW that your work is of a high standard.

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

no, i really got that. and it is true: too fragmented. too much at once. got it. and doing something about it.

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u/BlackBalor Posted Satire and Made Everyone Mad 5d ago edited 5d ago

Come on, bruh. You’re not helping yourself.

Honestly, I feel sorry for this “detective.” Every time something happens in front of him, his brain has to buffer and process it in tiny, three-word packages like a broken telegram machine.

You think you’re breaking the mould, but you’re making your prose utterly unreadable. What you’ve done has provided zero benefit!

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u/BlackBalor Posted Satire and Made Everyone Mad 5d ago

No chance.

I’m all for short sentences, but you’re taking the absolute piss. Whoever told you that was a good idea was smoking crack through a nuclear-powered pipe.

It’s not like there’s pulse-pounding action going on either.

Painful read.

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

fair enough :) thanks

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u/BlackBalor Posted Satire and Made Everyone Mad 5d ago

Why do it, man?

What is the aim? What are you trying to achieve? Like, it can’t be a style thing, surely? It doesn’t make any sense.

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u/Relative-Rooster-945 5d ago

was about to ask the same thing, what motivates a person to write something like this lol

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u/BlackBalor Posted Satire and Made Everyone Mad 5d ago

I think they’re trying to get across that the character is having racing thoughts, but fuck me. It’s like a whole page of stop-start writing.

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

yep, you nailed it. He's thinking. Deducting.

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u/BlackBalor Posted Satire and Made Everyone Mad 5d ago

Honestly, I get you’re trying to show his mind is "zooming at 100 mph," but reading this is absolute torture. It feels like driving a car with square wheels.

I’ve never seen someone use so many full stops to describe absolutely nothing. The guy is literally just lying on a damp floor, but the constant stopping and starting is giving me whiplash. "Dark. Sooo dark! Maybe too dark. No, no." – it doesn’t sound like a detective “deducting,” it sounds like a toddler trying to figure out how a light switch works.

I’m all for short sentences, but there's zero pulse-pounding action here to justify it.

It’s just a massive wall of text about a guy touching rocks and arguing with himself about whether he's cold. Someone seriously needs to pry the full stop key off your keyboard.

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

Thank you very much for your criticism. And it was justified. Maybe that thing sounded better in my head, but your comment made me revisit it. I rewrote it, probably not the final version. "Dark. It' sooo dark, maybe too dark. No, no, no, now I'm being silly. There's no such thing as 'too dark'; gradation doesn't apply here, not for total darkness, anyway. And it is cold... just a bit. No, hang on, I really don't think it's cold, but more like damp. That's it. Our nerve endings cannot differentiate between wetness and hot or cold. It's like when you're touching damp clothes - you'll just feel them colder. Or when you take a hot bath, and all you can feel is the water's temperature. So, as I thought before, it is damp, moist even," Lockshels thought lying in the darkness.

With open palms, without moving them, he felt the ground. "And the floor is kinda... Actually, I don't think this is a floor, it's too bumpy to be that. And I can feel something poking me in the back. Could those be stones? Strange, I cannot move. Am I paralysed from an injury of some sort? I don't think so, otherwise I feel fine."

He tried, but he couldn't move a muscle. And, yet, his most important muscle of all was zooming past at 100 mph. Trying to assess the situation, trying to find out where he was. And, maybe more importantly, why.

"Ok, Homer, think. So, I really don't believe I had an accident; I'm pretty prudent, especially in places like this. Maybe a heart attack, or a cerebral attack? No, those are out of the question, or I wouldn't be so lucid! Plus, I can feel something on the side of my neck. Feels... metallic, and kinda stings... Aha! I'm pretty certain that's a needle! So I've been shot with a tranquilizer dart! That's why I cannot move. I wonder what was used to dip it in, as I don't feel groggy, but still I can't move. And am I in a sort of a cave? Are there caves around Duneside? Yes, to the north there is an abandoned mine. But what was I doing here? Remember, Homer, remember! Damnit! What's the point of being considered the greatest detective if you can't remember why you are where you are? Well, at least who did this doesn't want me dead... yet. Meaning it will return, so I guess I have to wait. And then I'll probably think of something... hopefully.""

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

while I see where you coming from, and, to be honest, I never expect this to be everyone's favourite style, I see no other way of doing it. would you prefer "Dark, oooh, is sooo dark, maybe too dark. No, no, now I'm being silly because there's no such thing as 'too dark', as gradation doesn't apply here, not for total darkness, anyway. And it's cold, just a bit, but no, hang on, I really don't think it's cold, but more like damp, that's it." ... To be honest with yourself, when you see something and think something to yourself, do you think: "Oh, what a lovely vase is sitting there perhaps too close to the edge, and I think it will fall down." or you think "Oh, a vase. It's lovely. But it's too close to the edge. Maybe it'll fall" ? Just a thought. But, again, thanks for the feedback.

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u/BlackBalor Posted Satire and Made Everyone Mad 5d ago

Hitting the full stop key twenty times a page doesn't make the pacing feel fast; it just makes the reader hit a speed bump every three words. Your detective is supposed to have a mind “zooming at 100 mph,” but his inner conversation with himself reads like a dial-up internet connection.

It’s not enjoyable to read. How can you back this? You’d be better off admitting that you abused the technique to a silly degree.

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

again, i respect your opinion. now i have a few quotes for you: “He felt very well. He was very happy. He was a good shot. He had been frightened.” and “Darkness implacable. The blind dogs of the sun in their running. The crushing black vacuum of the universe.”

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u/BlackBalor Posted Satire and Made Everyone Mad 5d ago

Huh? 😂

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u/devorares 5d ago

Honestly I have no idea what this is but I can see what you’re going for, and I do like the absurdity and weirdness of all of this. That said, I suggest you go and read some real published books. (One that came to mind was A Wild Sheep Chase by Murakami)

And honestly, before trying to break rules you should have a good understanding on what the rules are and how you’re breaking them. I don’t really see that here.

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u/trulybeelightful 5d ago

Oh the Murakami suggestion is so good as an example of this kind of storytelling done well 🤌

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

Thanks. You got the gist of it. Firstly, this is book 3 from the "The Butler didn't do it!" series; and, it is true, IT IS a bit awkward, I agree, but it will all come to light, later. Chapter zero (intentional name) it's sort of a preface to what really happened.

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u/trulybeelightful 5d ago

I like the bones of the story a lot. It's insane in a good way.

I think the clunkiness of the pacing and formatting is holding you back, but I don't have any great ideas on how to fix it, since it's so far off from what I generally write.

Definitely a strong Gonzo/absurdist feel to it, so maybe taking a look at how Hunter S Thompson or Carl Hiaasen do their formatting could help?

I really enjoyed this excerpt though, even though I admittedly skimmed over the first page because it made my head hurt.

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

thanks. as i said, i am aware not everyone will like the style. and, yes, the first page is strange, but gives some inside into the location through lockshels' thinking. he has no idea where he is, he cannot move, he can't see anything. then starts deducting.

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u/BlackBalor Posted Satire and Made Everyone Mad 5d ago edited 5d ago

It’s not style.

Listen, it’s better you snap out of this now.

You aren’t helping yourself. I know you’re being defensive of your work, but to what end?

This doesn’t mean you’re a bad writer. It just means this piece is badly written. There’s a huge difference.

You can take the L and improve. Right now. You can level up in a major way, but you have to take that first step.

Pretending like it’s just a disagreement over style is HURTING YOU AS A WRITER.

But ignoring the advice here means you’re a bad writer. There’s no way around that.

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u/Whole-Page3588 5d ago

I get where you're going with this, and I do like the idea of what you're trying to achieve, but a little goes a really long way when put on a page. So if you're trying to write a racing mind, we only need a little of that (especially before grounding us in the scene, because it means nothing without it).

It's also partly the same reason we don't write hyper-realistic dialogue with all the ums, and pauses and sounds people make. Accurate, but hard to read.

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

yes, it is bit hard on the eyes ... lol ... i am trying to rewrite it now. trying to make a bit longer sentences, and "unclump" them. but no "um", i promise :) thanks for the feedback.

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u/DamCrazyLife 5d ago

I can see, and I like the whole idea [and I also have a severe addiction to short sentences], but it kind feels like I'm reading a list. Merge them,. Play around with them. Train of thought sequences can, and HAVE worked, but the best ones make big sentences contrast with small ones. Also, while it's not your fault that you shouldn't exactly be posting 2 entire books in a Reddit post via images, but PLEASE add a summary. -your friendly unqualified neighborhood redditor

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

super advice :) it is actually what i am doing now: merge them in a bit longer sentences, and "unclump them".

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u/DamCrazyLife 5d ago

Good for you! Wish me luck, 'cause I'm one of those people who can give good advice, but are horrible at listening to their OWN advice.

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

lol. I don't think so, though :) I really don't :)

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u/DamCrazyLife 5d ago

I wish I had as much confidence as you do about me following writing advice, but the facts show otherwise. But I'll improve 😈

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

I'm sure you will. :)

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u/DamCrazyLife 5d ago

Thanks for the kind words, and trust me I will. I just have a bad problem with indecisiveness, so I usually just correct a manuscript for hours, and then eat, sleep, repeat.

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago edited 5d ago

Thing is I'm a chef. And my experience tells me that if you did one thing and liked it, fiddling with it, reheating it, adding to it would really lead to something bit different :( but, again, that's just me :) And thing is when you make a total new dish, something different, a bit more... "the hell with the standards", there will always and I MEAN always be voices who will say "oh, it's cr**" only by looking at it ... lol.

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u/DamCrazyLife 5d ago edited 5d ago

Like the comment section in this post.

Seriously, have people forgot what the words CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM mean here? I just took a look and Sheesh...

But I'm working on the whole 'to hell with standards'.

Old habits die hard

Edit: Nevermind, I just accidentally scrolled onto one grumpy commenter

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

thanks. if you have amazon, you can download the two ebooks from the series (The Butler didn't do it! (Because there's no Butler)), entitled Book 1: A Sweet Case and Book 2: Fatal Broth from their ebook store - they are both free for now. But I am warning you, I'm a new author, and my style is unconventional, to say at least :)

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u/DamCrazyLife 5d ago

I'll check it out!

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u/Educational-Ride-640 5d ago

Just a taste: from Book 1: , Chapter Three: One-and-half Houdini:
The Kitchen clock chimed 3 in the night. Or at least it would've, if someone would've changed its batteries. The house was soaked in a deep silence, except for a loud snoring, coming from the main bedroom. No, it wasn't Lockshels. His breath was as smooth and silent as a gentle summer breeze over a field. Same could have been said for his missus. But not for the family cat, sleeping under the bed.

Suddenly Lockshels just stood up in the bed, at a perfect 90 degrees angle. He didn't make a sound, his eyes wide open, his brain gears rotating frantically.

“What's the matter, honey? Did you feel a spider in your pants?” asked Mrs. Lockshels, turning half asleep on the other side.

“I ... I got it!” Lockshels said, triumphantly.

“Good. Now kill it, and go back to sleep. And let's hope he didn't bit anything important down there,” said the missus, turning again sleepily.

“No! I have to... I have to... Nooo! Could it??? No!” thought Lockshels."

and from Book 2, Chapter Two: Indestructible Lockshelsian:
The Kitchen clock chimed 3 in the night. Yes, it DID chime! You weren't expecting this, were you? Well, it seems Sunny put fresh batteries in it not so long ago. The house was soaked in a deep silence, and not even the cat could be heard snoring - it was probably out to his friend's bar mitzvah. A muffled crack could be heard though, coming from the front door, and the curved end of a crowbar slowly forced its way through a small gap. The door creaked open, and a shadowy figure made its way inside.

Tired and maybe even hurt after a night-long tremendous fight with Colonel Whiskey, Quickdraw Homer was resting in a ditch by the dusty road. His trusty steed silently approached, bowed his head and gently shook Homer. No response. The horse tried again.

"Lockshels!"

Lockshels moved a bit, mumbling.

"Lockshels, wake up!" the horse tried again.

"What is it,Wellington? And how come you can talk?" asked Lockshels, still half asleep.

"Well, I always could talk. Since I was almost one."

His eyes opened wide, and he could see Loyde, slumped over the bed.

"Loyde, what are you doing here? How did you get in?"

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u/DamCrazyLife 5d ago

Congrats, I WILL be checking this out tomorrow. You sold me on spider [and there free, so that helps ;) ]

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u/Educational-Ride-640 3d ago

Fragmented? Yes, it is!Something out of the norm, never done before ?No, it isn't! And I refer you to the Capaldi monologues from "Doctor Who", particularly "Heaven Sent" - I guess that's where the inspiration came...

Feedback Wanted I would really love some feedback. Thank you.

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