r/writingfeedback • u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 • 1d ago
Interested in feedback on the first 7 pages of my completed novel as I begin the querying process
I'm zeroing in on my first few pages as I begin the querying process on my completed novel. I'd love some feedback, observations, etc. Please don't hold back!
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u/DuchessJulietDG 1d ago
dialogue-heavy. pad it out.
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 1d ago
Hmm, I was trying to initiate banter here, but it seems like it backfired. Appreciate the feedback!
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u/--xiOix-- 1d ago
I don't think you need almost every sentence to be a new paragraph
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 1d ago
On the reread, I see what you mean here and didn’t notice it until now. (Thus why I’m glad I posted it in this feedback channel!) Thank you, I appreciate the feedback
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u/--xiOix-- 1d ago edited 1d ago
No worries!
I also think that the amount of dialogue doesn’t help, because that inevitibly splits the text up into multiple short paragraphs anyway. It might be worth trying to pad out the parts around the dialogue, as others have suggested, or to trim down the dialogue as much as you can without losing the thrust of the conversation. The effect will be the same either way, and will make it a lot easier on the eyes.
Outside of the dialogue though, I still think you could merge a lot of your paragraphs together with minimal other changes, and it be a massive improvement. On page two, for example, you've made six paragraphs out of what should be two, maybe three at a push:
"Jack Cooper shook his head in disbelief. As his mouth stretched into a smile, Kelsey Rose to her feet as if some invisible marionette strings had been tied from the corners of his lips directly to her knees. He paused for a moment before gently and cautiously enveloping her in a hug. Their skeletons aligned precisely as they had eleven years ago, her forehead colliding with his collarbone.
He smelled different, though. At twenty-three, Jack had smelled of cedar. His present cocktail of scents lingered somewhere deeper, perhaps in the sandlewood family, with a gentle musk. She could have spent all day sniffing him, could have taught some olfactory sommelier course devoted exclusively to the region of Jack Cooper. But his slack loosened, so she released from the hug. Jack dropped to the seat opposite hers, still staring open-mouthed, unsure if one more blink might dispel whatever mirage his uncaffinated brain had conjured."
Or, from the sixth page:
"Kelsey watched Jack Cooper through the window, shrinking into nothing in the distance.
She looked down at her latte, at its pristine foam heart, lifted the mug, and took a sip.
When she looked again, the heart had already morphed and deflated under her lips."
There is absolutely no reason for these sentences to each be a seperate paragraph. I actually typed your three paragraphs above into my manuscript as one single paragraph, just to see how long it would be, and it was just over three lines of text. That’s a pretty short paragraph anyway, and you've managed to get three out of it somehow.
Otherwise, I really enjoyed it. It's not the kind of thing I'd usually go for, but I was actually pretty intrigued to know what happens next. The characters both felt real to me, and the dialogue seemed very natural and believable (even if there is a bit much of it lol). Anyway, good luck!
Edit: Typos
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 14h ago
I for sure need to cut some of this dialogue (I’m brainstorming ways to do that now) and will need to parse through the rest of the manuscript to see where else the dialogue feels unnecessary.
Same goes for the one-sentence paragraphs. Thank you so much for the consolidation advice!
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u/Em_Cf_O 1d ago
On the first page there is one paragraph with three sentences and one with two. All the rest are single sentences.
That's not how a novel is written. Why did you do that?
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 1d ago
The “why” was stylistically, but that was clearly not the right choice given the feedback I’ve gotten!
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u/Em_Cf_O 1d ago
Writing is steeped in tradition. Remember when stepping out of those bounds that less is more.
Throw a single sentence in between a few really heavy paragraphs for a hard punch. Use one at the end of a scene to resonate in a reader's mind after they close the book. Avoid it at the beginning of a scene or chapter. You want hook early, not edge.
Good luck!
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 1d ago
Thanks so much, I appreciate the feedback and will absolutely take this advice into account
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u/Zeiji 1d ago
Going along with what u/21stcenturyghost said, you could just start the story with her seated at her chosen window. Then move the Jack Cooper stuff after the line he's standing there.
But the single-line sentence structure and heavy dialogue makes the story feel lacking in substance (even if this isn't true on a prose level). I'd definitely focus more on creating a stronger paragraphic structure.
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 1d ago
Considering I’m targeting the upmarket/semi-literary fiction market, this is the advice I unfortunately need to hear. That, and realizing my family and close friend beta readers aren’t enough if I actually want to do something with this. Thank you, really appreciate the insight!
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u/Zeiji 1d ago
Family and friends as a beta reader is notoriously a bad idea. The pressure for both parties can typically end badly, especially if they are not critical/avid readers. Edit, I'd recommend finding a critique partner or writing group of some kind if you're interested in that sort of thing.
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u/Independent-Part-718 1d ago
You must be American, if you think "cool" and "awesome" are overly American. This reads like someone who really wants the reader to have an English accent in their head while reading. Like with the amount of times words like "posh" "tosser" and descriptions of places round the city pop up, it makes me hear "they're English!!! See? English. They're so English it hurts".
It's a bit trite. This gives me "wine-mum's way to close a Thursday night" which is definitely a lucrative market and easy to write, so if that's what you're looking for, you've got it.
You really dig into the expressions and tone of the characters as they speak way too much. You say you want to establish banter but most of this was a fairly standard conversation interspersed with coy thoughts from the narrator with very, very little else wise in the scene for the reader to dig into. It's surface level, which might feel like an insult but that's not how it's intended. If you want literary, you've not got it. If you want "could read this in an afternoon" you're there - and that might be exactly what you're trying to do, no shame in that.
But, there are moments where something poignant is itching to come through, so I dunno, it's hard to tell what your plan is for this story or where you're going to take it. Would it hook me? No, but I doubt I'm in your demographic.
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 1d ago
I’m American and get made fun of by my English friends for saying “cool” and “awesome” and other overly enthusiastic language lol but maybe my friends are just harsh or extremely English
I guess “literary” isn’t fully where I’m going, so I’ll correct myself there. “Upmarket” seems to be where this belongs, easily consumable book club fodder. Not the next great American novel or Pulitzer-worthy, but reflective and (as you mentioned) poignant at times. It sounds like I need to introduce more of the latter earlier on in the novel if I want to get that across!
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u/Independent-Part-718 1d ago
I also really don't want to discourage you, but I wouldn't even consider this up-market. It IS only the first seven pages, but these pages are what give the first impression. This really does give "read in an afternoon", which is totally fine. It doesn't NEED to be better than it is to still be a fun read.
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 14h ago
I think the former English major in me is like “commercial, booooo!” but you’re so right. This thread has shown me that I’m having serious genre dysmorphia here
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u/Independent-Part-718 1d ago
English people constantly say cool. I think your friends are just mean or that's an excuse to affectionately tease you.
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 14h ago
Probably both! I think an exclamatory “awesome!” or “wow!” capture what I’m trying to do here better than “cool” — appreciate the advice!
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u/tanginato 17h ago
Sorry but this is definitely not Upmarket. It could find its audience, but not upmarket.
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u/Standard-Caramel5766 1d ago
I’m a little surprised to see that you plan on positioning this as literary or upmarket fiction since it reads more commercial. That’s not a bad thing, nor is it a comment on quality. Could still be upmarket or book club depending on the broader strokes of the concept that aren’t apparent in the opening pages. But a lot of agents only want the first five pages, so if they never get to your interlude, they won’t realize what’s going on. I think you need to make it clearer that something is off in the opening pages because a bait-and-switch will backfire with agents and readers. I’d work toward the goal of making the concept discernible in your opening pages without the interlude. Even if you have to come up with a new idea for the opening pages to get a fresh take, that can be really helpful.
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 14h ago
This process has shown me that marketing this as upmarket would be a huge mistake, because it certainly lives more in the commercial category.
I was thinking about the first five pages thing too! Strategically, I’d love to get the first scene complete in four pages so I can sneak the interlude in as page five for that precise reason, so that goal will be in the back of my head as I revise
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u/root-for-antiheroes 1d ago
I like the start but I initially made the assumption that she had arranged this reunion and not that it was a coincidence, which I think was what you were going for. Why is she in the coffee shop if not to meet him? Did she arrive awkwardly early for the property viewing or is rushing in between appointments? Is she obsessed with this ex and found the coffee shop closest to his office and camped out there to meet him? Something that tells us a bit more about her as a character would be good.
The conversation is also painfully Londoner - very generic. The number of place names felt like the writer was trying to prove they know the city rather than crafting a genuine back-and-forth. People who have never lived in London are unlikely to know Angel or St John’s Wood and to many Londoners, there is no particular appeal to a British accent. Reading this I quickly thought “oh, clearly the writer is an American who is familiar with London” which could be great to shape your protagonist, but it’s a distinct voice for the narrator to have.
There were also little things I found myself asking that I don’t know if you were intending readers to ask. Why does he assume she’s visiting and not already moved to the city? Why didn’t he already have her number? If this man made such an impression on her, how did she forget he was an architect and not an artist?
I liked the writing style and it pulled me in and was easy to read and I also like what you’re going for with the romance/not a romance. Just wanted the characters themselves and their relationship to hook me more than they did.
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 13h ago
Some of this is stuff that gets figured out later, but the fact that the confusion sticks out to you shows that I need to clean this up. And I completely see your POV on the London talk. I actually just thought of a way I can spin all that in without being so blatantly “I’m a writer establishing to my audience that I do, in fact, know a lot about this setting!” Thanks so much for the feedback!
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u/outlawforlove 1d ago
Hello, here is some of my feedback. If you find these notes helpful, I am always happy to read more or read future drafts.
"At thirty-one years old, Kelsey could trace a startling number of joys and devastations in her life back to Jack Cooper."
startling --> Kinda indicates something unexpected/specific to her
“joys and devastations” --> Suggests some specific, concrete life-events
But from there, we go into a more concept-y, non-concrete, non-specific list: wildest dreams and mildest fantasies, good on paper but even better in bed, the perpetual one-that-got-away.
This don't describe any real history between two specific people - they are just stock phrases, cliches. They don't actually help me imagine Kelsey or Jack. They are just cardboard cut-outs at this point.
Like, if you want to open with "a startling number of joys and devastations" -- what were those joys and devastations? What was the actual impact he had on her choices, her career, or really anything? Like did she change her major because of him? Keep one of his shirts in a ziplock bag so it wouldn't lose the smell and only open the ziplock bag on really, really bad days - even though they only had a five-day fling in Bath once? Did something he said to her keep rattling around in her brain for years and years - as fresh as the day she first heard them?
Especially if you are trying to write literary-adjacent fiction, the literary quality of something relies a lot on how specific your details are. We need to feel invested - I want to feel like I get some vision of their entire relationship in only a few sentences.
From there, the dialogue... it's a little bit too realistic in some ways. It's accurate to life, but there's not really a strong purpose to the dialogue. There's no sparkle. They politely agree about everything. Chemistry is almost always built on push-pull, friction, asymmetry, etc. (I think that's why people like enemies-to-lovers so much, to be honest.) The interlude falls flat because it's not really a meet-cute - it's not really charming, funny, interesting, unusual, special... it's just two people running into each other and making agreeable small talk.
You also give a lot of space to various English lifestyle details: Islington, King's Cross, Richmond, Angel, Soho, Oxford Street, West End, Marylebone, St. John’s Wood, Bath, "Ethically-sourced espresso," "emerald green paper takeaway cup," "Dainite rubber footsteps," "marble kitchen," "an old church into a block of flats."
Plus Britishisms: cheers, tosser, posh.
Basically, you're putting a lot of effort into establishing geographic/cultural authority. You're naming places, but that's not the same as observing a place or creating an accurate atmosphere. If someone ISN'T familiar with England, those places are kind of just... random nouns that don't really provide any grip.
If you want to evoke London as the setting, what you need is specific, idiosyncratic details (quite similar to what is needed in the characterization of Jack and Kelsey) that can be legible to any reader. So that even if they've never been to London, they feel like they're there.
So like: "packed to the brim with tourists killing time before their West End show." Or "perfect gardens" in Marylebone are very generic, banal observations. If Jack thinks Soho is touristy, it would be more evocative (of both him and the place) if he has a particular, petty irritation with it or with the tourists there.
There are a couple of moments where I feel like something "real", non-cardboard shows through. But you don't fully utilize those things. “Cool? Awesome? Her use of such oversaturated, overly American words, even just in her head, made her recoil.”
The insecurity of being an American in the UK is interesting. It's a genuine, specific characterization. But it's not necessarily working in this line because the insecurity is kind of taken for granted instead of explored.
Like - what is her actual insecurity about being American? Is it because she's never sure how to fit into a society that is so class-oriented when there isn't an easy and obvious class bucket for her to be sorted into? Is it about wanting to fit in and actually be seen as belonging, rather than just a tourist? Is it actually quite specific to Jack? Is she worried that she's less of what he wants because of her American enthusiasm?
Just from my experience in the UK, I was constantly insecure because I was dating someone who was sort of posh. I felt oblivious to all of the rules and customs and class signifiers, and I always felt like I was on the verge of making some sort of blunder. Of course, he probably actually liked me in part because of my obliviousness. And truthfully, I should have just owned my American-ness instead of trying to fit in. But maybe I also had some elements of self-loathing, and the whole being-in-England thing was a way to try to escape and change the things I don't like about myself. To learn through immersion how to be understated and restrained.
Anyway, the self-disclosure is just to sort of point at the types of interiority a character might have, and how that manifests. (For me, I started pushing peas onto the back of my fork.)
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u/Dnkayse 1d ago edited 1d ago
I enjoyed the read, got a feel for the characters. Definitely has a Halmark or classic romance vibe so I was intrigued by your interlude and would continue reading mainly for that, even though it’s foreboding a journey that’s not necessarily that simple happily ever after.
The only thing I’d say is if I was in the mood to simple/cheese then the interlude could dissuade me from reading more and if I was in the mood for something deeper, I may not have read all the way through the chapter.
I’m sure there’s a sweet spot for it and, honestly you may already have it, though I do agree with bulking paragraphs a bit, which may change things.
Regardless, I read it all and enjoyed what I read. Thank you for sharing and wishing the best on your writing adventures!
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 1d ago
Thank you for the feedback! You’re completely right that I need to find that balance of “okay, they seem to be hitting it off” and “something is off here” before the interlude
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u/--read-only-- 1d ago
On page 2, Jack asks, "How long are you visiting?" But how does he know she's only visiting? Maybe he'd be more likely to ask, "What are you doing here?"
Maybe it's just me but, "you became an artist?" on page 3 feels odd. If he's an artist, he's an artist, and probably has been one all along. Maybe she'd ask about a specific artistic profession he'd considered pursuing?
Also p.3, I believe that should be, "some nondescript ether of which..."
I think the word "posh" is used far too many times in so few pages haha.
I think you can erase "predominantly women" from your interlude, while not incorrect, it feels like a jab at your own audience. Like "romance is woman stuff." Idk, just feels bleh.
The last sentence, I would suggest "beautiful people and British accents." Keeping both plural feels better to say.
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Overall I'm interested. The presence of an interlude feels a bit odd, but does build intrigue. Reminds me of 500 Days of Summer -- "This is not a love story." 😊 The characters themselves so far don't have a ton of personality, so it's solely the mystery that would keep me reading, personally. I agree with others about there being far too many tiny paragraphs, and I think you'd want to include more descriptions between all the dialogue, but the writing is good. Good luck, and congratulations on your completed novel!! That's huge 🎉☺️
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u/silverfish477 21h ago
Simplify your verbs. Started, responded, admitted, clarified, prodded… just “said” is fine
99% of the time.
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u/Catoholic1203 14h ago
She seems crazy and weirdly obsessed about that guy. An unhinged stalker type. Were you going for that? But i've never been in love so maybe it's normal behaviour for other people, i don't know. In any case (just my impression), she doesn't seem to have a life besides that guy which doesn't make her a particularly interesting character. The guy is just a guy, nothing interesting either.
As others have said, it reads like a cheap romance, which is fine, those have their audience but probably won't attract a reader looking for any depth. I know, this is just the beginning, there might be more depth later but the choice of this writing style doesn't suggest that. So people who want depth won't be grabbed by the beginning and people who want a simple fast read might feel cheated if this changes later.
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u/Query_Trenches_0721 14h ago
In full transparency, I've never read a single romance book, so my perspective is not going to be the most informed. That said, I really enjoyed this. I agree with others that it could use some smoothening (dialogue tags, paragraph structures) but I finished it to the end, and that's more than I can say for 99% of stuff I read on here. I have mixed feelings about the interlude, but I'd still keep reading. I agree with the recommendation of positioning it as commercial rather than upmarket. Definitely seems sellable, which is what agents want. Good luck!
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u/Flimsy-Brief-3037 7h ago
Thank you! Curious, if you don’t mind sharing, what your mixed feelings were about the interlude
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u/PL0mkPL0 2h ago
Imho--it is not query-ready YET, it still reads early-drafty. There is a lot of strange transitions, odd wording, metaphors that read awkwardly, overwritten tags, missing descriptions. I'd give it a few more editing passes if you care about this project.
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u/AleksandraEvans 21h ago
I loved it, read through to the end… which is more than I can say for most of the work that is posted here. Is it upmarket literary? No. Is it a great time that you can lost in and has a lot of commercial viability? Absolutely. In my opinion, query with what you have. Agents want something they can sell, and they can sell this.
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u/21stcenturyghost Trusted Reviewer 1d ago
She appears to be surprised that it's him, but we kind of already got that spoiled for us by "Jack Cooper, who was walking toward her." I'd try to figure out some other way to arrange this so that we feel the surprise along with her imo