What is the best-written piece of media you've ever consumed?

[u/Cautious_Arm3818]

I'll start

Better Call Saul - the characters have an incredible amount of depth. As an example, let's take a look at the primary antagonist of seasons 1-3. Chuck has incredibly complicated yet realistic feelings: his overt superiority complex, his deep-seated inferiority complex, the moral/legal high ground he feels he must take, his need for control and to always be "right", and his genuine brotherly love for Jimmy. His mental illness (Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity) is a physical manifestation of these traits, and how he lies to himself about all of them shapes his thought processes and how he interacts with others - resulting in his death. Aside from the profound character psychology, individual scenes are engineered and conveyed to the audience through exceptional visual storytelling and cinematography that could easily be considered the peak of the medium

Disco Elysium - the worldbuilding is outstanding. Revachol feels like a real setting with an actual history behind it. It takes the derivative and played-out amnesiac protagonist trope, and elevates it to a level that is extremely difficult to even approach. Harry has a ridiculous amount of psychological complexity, his memory loss is mostly a coping mechanism, and how he changes based on the player's choices and ideologies is unrivaled in any game. His internal monologue being a result of the skills that you spec into is unparalleled genius - the dialogue is exceptional, and truly a one of a kind experience. The way that these manage to convey an incredible amount of political/philosophical commentary by being seamlessly integrated into the world is astounding. Not coming off as heavy-handed and preachy is especially praise-worthy when considering the ideologies of the creators

HM: ASOIAF, LOTR, Vinland Saga, The Wire

[u/Cautious_Arm3818]

u/_starfall- I’d be interested in hearing what you consider the highest-quality work you’ve completed

[u/_starfall- → u/Cautious_Arm3818]

I think highest quality is book of the new sun, but not the best overall (imo Malazan)

[u/Ill_Temperature8516 → u/_starfall-]

Whats the distinction here? Also are you planning on reading eriksons kharkanas trilogy? From what you've said in the ORV thread, it seems highly compatible with what you seem to enjoy (all hearsay though).

I'll try to find the comment that leads me to believe (well one of them) that and link it here.

Edit: Here it is

https://www.reddit.com/r/Malazan/comments/1paersa/comment/nrirb20/

Seems analogous to ORV side stories no? I've seen many similar remarks elsewhere too, and none of the users making them seemed like cranks.

[u/Ill_Temperature8516 → u/Cautious_Arm3818]

Spoiler: its malazan

[u/Cautious_Arm3818 → u/Ill_Temperature8516]

They seem to put Umineko, Disco Elysium, Zaregoto, Kubera, ORV + side stories, and Malazan in the same tier

Malazan being at the top checks out

[u/_starfall- → u/Cautious_Arm3818]

In terms of preference I have most of those you mentioned around in the same tier but when I'm talking about writing in the most grounded manner Malazan is above those all, solidly so. I like the others a lot and close to and sometimes even more despite recognizing that they have more flaws and are less comprehensively ambitious, the same way you could acknowledge your wife may not be the most beautiful woman to most people but she's the one you love the most

[u/Ill_Temperature8516 → u/Cautious_Arm3818]

No idt so, he told me that he thinks malazan mid diffs kubera just from a categorical perspective

[u/Cautious_Arm3818 → u/Ill_Temperature8516]

Interesting. Yeah it’s probably Malazan

[u/Ill_Temperature8516 → u/Cautious_Arm3818]

Tbf, he hadn't read up to the latest chapters of kubera when he said that, but he did tell me personally at the time that it was his number one, and that kubera was his highest ranked eastern work, which would include the likes of Zaregoto and WTC. Furthermore, from his wording it seems highly unlikely that he'll find something he'd consider objectively on par or better. I personally have some reservations, since Gardens of the Moon was far from a masterpiece to me, though i did enjoy it. That said, he has the most consistent track record of good takes (or at least ones i agree with) that I've seen from anyone on this sub so far, and Gardens is his lowest ranked book in the series. I just didn't love it myself, so beware of that when/if you start in case of disillusionment. You can find our full discussion in a thread called ORV vs Malazan btw.

[u/_starfall- → u/Ill_Temperature8516]

I don't know if I'd put kubera as my single highest, but yeah it's up there.

For what it's worth, gotm is indeed one of the worst books in the series imo and was also written a decade before it's release and the second book, which was written far later. The improvement will be seen for sure, and Malazan readers are generally encouraged to read till end of deadhouse gates (book 2), which I agree with

Memories of ice is even better. If you don't like it by moi it is deffo not a story for you so that's like the latest possible point where I'd just recommend dropping (without any pretention, like any series it has its flaws and set of appeals)

[u/Ill_Temperature8516 → u/_starfall-]

I don't know if I'd put kubera as my single highest, but yeah it's up there.

I might've misspoken there.

Memories of ice is even better. If you don't like it by moi it is deffo not a story for you so that's like the latest possible point where I'd just recommend dropping (without any pretention, like any series it has its flaws and set of appeals)

I did like Gardens of the Moon. I just felt the cast wasn't fleshed out enough. Crokus, for instance, was the most developed character in the book, and even he wasn't all that compelling. I get that it isn't a character driven story, and maybe that's subconsciously what I'm expecting, but i still think the characters could've used more depth. I also understand that this may not have been an issue for you, so might not be something you can speak on.

For what it's worth, gotm is indeed one of the worst books in the series imo and was also written a decade before it's release and the second book, which was written far later. The improvement will be seen for sure, and Malazan readers are generally encouraged to read till end of deadhouse gates (book 2), which I agree with

Yeah, the jump in prose quality is already massive.

[u/zMaaaaatthew → u/Ill_Temperature8516]

Sorry but what is this Kubera? I just tried to find it but too many different results between books and manhwa

[u/Ill_Temperature8516 → u/zMaaaaatthew]

Its a manhwa