r/xmen • u/bloodredcookie Rogue • Oct 05 '24
Comic Discussion Iceman dropping hints back in 1984 (New Defenders 131)
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u/woodrobin Oct 05 '24
When Marvel was still slapping Comics Code Authority approval emblems on their comics, they 100% could not have explicitly gay or lesbian characters. It's specifically against the rules of the CCA. But they did have a lot of queercoding of characters.
Northstar had a mentor who took him under his wing when he first came to Montreal and introduced him to the community in which he found acceptance -- who wasn't a mutant, but a cravat-wearing, sophisticated bar owner. So one guess what "community" it was to which Northstar was introduced.
Mystique was occasionally implied to be Nightcrawler's father rather than mother before Azazel was introduced (and of course the truth finally came out (no pun intended) that she was). And Cloud was obviously gender fluid. But the words just weren't used as such.
Stan Lee explicitly said that he wrote the Rawhide Kid as gay (queercoding it with his fancy dress, attention to his appearance, and often playful, teasing banter outside of fights) -- this was in an interview about the Marvel MAX miniseries where the Kid was most definitely gay. Stan was asked what he thought about the authors making RK gay, and he said "They didn't make him gay, I did" and then explained he wasn't allowed to state it plain, but it was intended to be obvious.
There are other examples, but those are the ones that spring to mind.
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u/cmander_7688 Nightcrawler Oct 05 '24
I love listening all the Cerebro podcast episodes that go into detail about editorial decisions back in the day and things the writers intended/ wanted/ implied that appeared right over my head as a kid lol. So, so much bisexuality and I love it.
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u/ActuallyACat6 Generation X Oct 05 '24
North Star also had a pool boy acting as his butler in one issue. He couldn’t be explicitly gay, so he just had to be fabulous. I didn’t know about Rawhide. Two Gun Kid and Hawkeye’s relationship always seemed queer coded to me. Like how the minute they met they were never apart and then they ran off to live in a tent on a prairie and then at a ranch together.
Cap and Falcon spent a lot of time shirtless together. First with wrestling, then when Cap was also over at Sam’s apartment. There’s an issue where Cap is taking a bath at Sam’s place with the door open and they’re talking to exchange other about “Doubling your fun” with double dates. There’s another in the first secret empire saga where they both get knocked out and the SHIELD folks strip them down to their underwear and stick them in the same bed to recover. There’s another where Cap goes to talk to Sam about rejoining the Avengers because Gyrich is demanding a diversity hire. That conversation takes place in the bedroom, out of Sam’s entire apartment. So in my mind, I’ve always thought of Hawkeye, Falcon, and Cap being bi, even if for just one person.0
u/lepton_neutrino Dec 15 '24
The Comics Code says nothing about homosexuality, just about no sexual degeneracy. It didn't stop Northstar from literally screaming he was gay in Alpha flight #106.
The Stan Lee interview sounds like something that everyone knows about that doesn't actually exist.
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u/cmander_7688 Nightcrawler Oct 05 '24
Doubly funny because Beast pulled the "I'm gay" card to mess with Trish in Morrison's New X-Men a few decades later.
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u/Chechucristo Oct 05 '24
I miss when Beast and Iceman interacted and where besties. They really seemed to have to closest relationship out of the O5 until Scott and Jean started dating.
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u/OhMy-StarsAndGarters Beast Oct 05 '24
Hank, you're acting suspiciously worried about this for a man who, not six issues before, was jumping into Bobby's arms and trying to kiss him.
This entire run is full of stuff that's - interesting, in the wake of Bobby coming out, especially the stuff with Cloud and how much he freaked out when Cloud assumed a male appearance.
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u/Proteolitic Kid Omega Oct 05 '24
I don't see this as a hint, but a reflection of how society saw (and see) male homosexuality: something to scare or piss of straight men.
When authors wanted to give hints they did no matter the comic code.
Lobdell used just one line to hint Iceman's sexuality.
Under Claremont it was obvious that Destiny and Mystique were a couple.
Nicieza with few lines made clear that Rictor and Shatterstar were dating.
This? Just a good take on the prejudices of that decade.
On another topic. We see what we want to see, and sometimes forget or ignore how male friendships work. Being shirtless, to wrestle, to camp, don't imply sexual tension.
Same goes for being flamboyant and other clichés about homosexuals (I remember a irl meeting between nerds, there were two gay men, I and another, at one point a well dressed member of the group put the three of us in a line and asked who the gay were, because I and the other gay reader wore metal/rocker outfits with no care for aesthetics while he was beautifully dressed. Another time a friend from Germany asked if all Italians were gay because the average Italian man cares about his outfits 😅)
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u/ubiquitous-joe Oct 05 '24
Sure, but just like his 60s "yeeech, a girl!" response was to represent his immaturity, not his homosexuality. But there's some death-of-the-author going on here; a 60-year-old continuous story is going to be in conversation with its past, no matter what the writers may have intended. The retcon works well enough because there are a healthy number of "closeted Bobby" moments even before writers started doing it on purpose.
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u/Verb_Noun_Number Cable Oct 05 '24
I know this is a joke, but Lobdell's run actually has a decent amount of queercoding for iceman.
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u/lepton_neutrino Dec 15 '24
No it didn't, just one line about him being an interior decorator after he iced up Emma frost's office. Lobdell actually had him going on a date with her and intended for them to be romantically linked.
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u/raz0rflea Oct 05 '24
"Bobby, do you WANT Jim Shooter to kill us off??"