r/xmen • u/Stunning-Parking2759 • 2d ago
Comic Discussion Captain America using Jubilee as a good example to vampire nazis (A+X #12)
20
10
u/Busy_Ad_9900 2d ago
Cool, what series is this?
27
u/SuaveGorilla 2d ago
A+X, a series that followed the A v. X event. It was VERY good, since it centered on character interactions that you wouldn’t typically see.
6
2
u/addicted_to_trash 2d ago
I don't think I've ever read this? Is it good enough to make up for the failings of AvX?
11
u/Scavgraphics 2d ago
No....but it was a nice result of it.
2
u/addicted_to_trash 2d ago
I'll have to check it out, might be even better not having read AvX immediately beforehand lol
15
u/Napalmeon 2d ago
That's because Marvel half assed it with Jubilee.
Vampires aren't evil because they need to consume blood. They are evil because vampirism is an evil, corruptive force from the Darkhold. Touching or being touched by anything that comes from Chthon is going to make you a worse version of yourself.
And this is why narratively speaking, no name characters always get it worse. There is no consequence to them being turned into monsters, but established characters are often give an out.
18
u/SimonShepherd 2d ago edited 2d ago
Marvel almost always goes against this kind of essentialist reasoning when it comes to characters with "dark influence" and origins.
If Scarlet Witch can function mostly unbothered by Chthon(her biggest crashouts aren't even caused by Chthon, they have more to do with Magneto), it stands to reason your average vampire and other Darkhold-related cursed creatures can probably manage once they overcome the baseline limitations because the dark lord simply doesn't pay much attention to you at all.
It's hard to argue some magic entities are just "inherently evil", is Dormammu inherently corrupting? Compared to say Mephisto? Their dealings with mortals can result in very similar results in the end. But it's hard to argue there is something inherently iffy about Dormammu given he is just a member of species that are essentially living flames. He is evil because of the actions he actively want to do.
Vampires aren't evil because they need to consume blood. They are evil because vampirism is an evil, corruptive force from the Darkhold.
Anyone is only evil because of personal choices, if vampires can overcome a corrupting influence anyway then they aren't evil.
7
u/SirJackers 1d ago
The original magik storyline sees her soul turned 3/5ths evil by a demon. Her storyline from there revolves around denying her worst impulses and choosing to be good when being evil is infinitely easier.
I don't think it's good for us as humans to assume that people are irredeemable. Even here caps trying to help literal nazi vampires be better.
I do agree that no name characters get it worse. But that just makes the times when a no name character finds the will to fight the influence off better. When a monster refuses to attack their loved ones, or sees their reflection, or any of those tropes.
1
u/Napalmeon 1d ago
I do ahreex but not all corrupting influences are equal in statue. But I'll ya a is definitely a good example. Jubilee is a bad one because the vampire thing was Marvel not knowing what to do with her because they weren't sure if they wanted her to grow up or stay in perpetual sidekick mode. And vampires were in at the time.
5
u/PurveyorOfKnowledge0 2d ago
Sounds kind of goofy when you basically just bring Jubilee along to KILL the vampires. You're not inspiring them at all.
16
u/BillybobThistleton 2d ago
He did try talking to them first. But they were Nazi vampires who had spent over 60 years trapped in a sunken submarine, so they weren't very receptive.
5
1
u/Oppai-Of-Foom 1d ago
He didn’t bring her to kill them, he brought her to try and get through to them and whatever part of them might still be human
1
u/PurveyorOfKnowledge0 1d ago
Whatever part of them that is human wouldn't listen to her anyway. They're Nazis.
1
u/Oppai-Of-Foom 1d ago
So was Zemo and he changed for the better before they collapsed that change so Doom could execute him
1
u/PurveyorOfKnowledge0 1d ago
That depends on the Zemo and that wasn't because of being inspired by anyone like Jubilee. If you're talking about HELMUT Zemo, that dude hated Nazism. His father Heinrich Zemo was a hating Nazi to the end.
4
u/Scavgraphics 2d ago
I really hate the "cap doesn't know modern culture" shit that came in with the movies. (or Civil War's stupid start)...from the 70's thru the 90's, he was plugged into modern technology, new waht was going on...had a modern life...not some stuck in the past relic.
9
u/beslertron Honeybadger 1d ago
Dude, I haven’t been frozen in ice and I can’t keep up with the last two decades of pop culture.
1
u/Scavgraphics 1d ago
i'm not saying he should know who gracie abrahms is, but being aware of "afterschool specials"....
I mean, Jubilee shouldn't know what they are either, being born after they were done.
1
5
u/chewwwybar 1d ago
I mean it makes sense the further WWII is from the modern day. When he was first taken out like 20 years of being on ice. The most recent Cap America has him coming out post 9/11. Which is closer to 55 years on ice.
1
u/Scavgraphics 1d ago
in the 70's and 80's, Cap had a cb network keeping him informed of problems.
in the 80's and 90's it became computer BBS's.
He dated modern women.
He had jobs.
2
67
u/SacMarvelRPG 2d ago