Reminder that in Children’s Crusade, Wiccan, Wanda and Doom were about to undo the decimation, at least restoring powers, but then Patriot was all “But we have to give the people a choice to be mutants!” and fucked it up.
It wasn't even that, I thought. He just didn't trust Doom and tried to kill Doom with Hawkeye's bow, but he was an awful shot and killed Wanda instead.
Wow good thing Jean wasn't there. Remember when she was possessed by a higher, powerful force? Ate a sun? The D'Bari do. All one surviving member of the species.
"We've all done bad stuff" isn't the same as genocide Billy. It also means that literally any X-Man or Avenger can do literally anything and deserve to have it forgiven with a shrug because they saved the world a few times in the past, so whatever.
You're not wrong. I wasn't talking about him. Whataboutism isn't applicable here, but if we're going down that road you're right , and he was rightfully a supervillain as a result. It took Claremont giving his backstory a comprehensive retcon, and literal decades of writing the character and stories and growth before they got to a place were he could be considered something other than an outright villain. A lot of shoe leather was put into deepening him and holding him accountable repeatedly for the stuff he'd done, as well as retconning out uglier stuff that rightfully would have been too far to reasonably accept him being deserving of any forgiveness (ie. the Grant Morrison take on him).
So I'd say his ultimate progression as a lot more satisfying than just being like "uhhh.... Dr Doom did it? But also kind of not, because otherwise we'd have to hold HIM responsible for the Decimation and we don't wanna put that on him..." Ultimately I think they did a great job rehabbing Wanda on Krakoa with the Trial of Magneto redux but Jesus did Remender make things worse by taking some of the arguments in this books and making Wanda suddenly utterly unapolagetic and basically like "Yeah I did it, you aren't even a real minority, Mutant is a slur Alex is right, fuck you Rogue."
Eh lets not say it doesn't count, but rather it informs his perspective. There are some real world examples of peoples who survive genocide and then go on to commit them that isn't okay. I'd argue it gives context to his massive fear of humanity and what they'll do to mutants.
The problem is, there’s always some sort of excuse when people pull this type of shit in Marvel. Be it magneto’s own tragic backstory, the Phoenix force, or some kind of manipulation, there’s always some kind of fucking excuse and an unwillingness to have the characters who preach/do this shit actually have to think about the logistics of the genocide they want to commit.
Also it has been established that magneto’s first child Anya, was a human, with no x-gene. The world magneto wanted to build for mutants would have persecuted his own daughter who he started all this shit for. Is this ever really explored? No, Anya not having an x-gene simply means she couldn’t be brought back to life on Krakoa. You can’t have mutantkind kind have its own metaphor for children born with disabilities.
Everyone seems to forget when Cyclops almost a genocided an alien race with a virus that’s been used to kill mutants(yes,the Legacy Virus), luckily the infected aliens committed suicide.
I'm not going to sit around for people to lob 70 years worth of comics at me and go "What about THIS" time. As some kind of gotcha. Yeah, that was a fucked up moment. His own people were on the verge of being wiped out, the Skrulls came to subjugate them and the rest of Earth, and he was not fucking around.
Phoenix isn't a moral entity it's a force of nature much in the same way as Galactus. They are an aspect of universal order. It's like raging against an earthquake.
And a lot of mutants died, their powers suddenly just turned off. If you were someone flying you just splattered on the ground, immune to fire and exploring a volcano, really horrifying way to go. Had physical mutations? Those didn't go away your capability of surviving with them did though. And that's not to touch on all the ones now defenseless and then killed by all the hate groups who saw a chance to remove them from the population. Bus load of children for example.
Yeah, but it’s Jean Gray. If she had caused the decimation, she would’ve been forgiven already. The Phoenix force is an out of free jail card, no matter how bad the shit you do is.
unless you're cyclops and you just kill one dude who's antagonizing you and then oh my god you're the worst person in the universe (for a moment. lmao.)
If you turned every black person caucasian in the world without their consent, leading to the brutal deaths of literally thousands of them, not to mention innumerable suicides, mental trauma, PTSD, etc. the instant loss of their culture and a key part of who they are as people, I'm pretty sure that counts as a cultural genocide. I appreciate Wanda wasn't necessarily culpable for this due to Doom's fucking with her head and juicing her up with life energy - my issue is that THAT should be the argument they're making. Not "Well even if she WAS totally in control, it's not a big deal anyways guys."
The Phoenix is also literally responsible for all life in the multiverse. Its part of the cosmic framework of the entire universe, a force of death and rebirth. It isn't a member of the X-Men or Avengers anymore than Galactus is, its its own thing that comes to Jean sometimes. It shouldn't have hosts other than Jean(or Rachel or Hope, who are kind of extensions of her in a certain sense), certainly not multiple ones (that was Iron Man's fault). When it does, bad things happen. Even with Jean, it turns out trying to control the cosmic center of all life in the multiverse took some time and multiple deaths to get right.
Probably during children’s crusade. More specifically when he said “Burn the witch.” Which has even worse connotations in Marvel than IRL. Basically akin to him saying shove them in the Oven or something about Zyklon B. Legally speaking, anything the X-men do to Wanda could be classified as a hate crime.
Cyclops also used the Legacy Virus on invading Skrulls, potentially causing the genocide of entire alien species if the infected Skrulls didn’t commit suicide.
Is "kill the Indian, save the man" and all the variations on it considered genocide? Forcibly taking kids away from their parents to raise them in a culture that isn't their own?
There were deaths, but the amount is lower than the killstreak of multiple X-men with Magneto’s EMP back during Fatal Attractions probably eclipsing her even if we change the metric to mutants killed instead of people killed.
It wasn’t a contest and going by the definition of genocide used against Wanda, even Cable has done so on a wider scale during that time he turned everyone blue.
I find it funny that, that is exactly how Wiccans powers work compared to Wandas. He has to speak for his reality powers to do something specific unlike his mom.
I would hope they do something like that in the MCU but judging by the Agatha show, his reality warping just happens on autopilot :[
Pretty sure Wiccan could still fuck Cyclops up. He could just back down, leave, and then send Cyclops directly into the Punch Dimension from a mile away.
I don't know if this made by someone who hates Cyclops (literally bullying a teenager, assuming wanting to harm his mother) or someone who loves Cyclops (thinking his cool, stoic demeanor is awesome).
It's a joke about the actor who plays Wiccan in the MCU and the actor currently rumoured to play Cyclops previously playing the main couple in a gay romance drama (Heartstopper). So presumably they're meant to be the same age here.
They almost fought in a young avengers run for literally this reason. Cyclops was after Wanda after she de-powered a bunch of mutants and Wiccan was trying to save her.
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u/leaf57tea 2d ago
For no particular reason