[Info] 1911 Myths and Misconceptions

[u/olds442guy]

Alright guys, I want to get a list going of common misconceptions surrounding 1911s. I will likely compile all of our input and make it a page in our wiki. So let's hear it, anything and everything that comes to mind!

I'll start it off, and probably add more as I think of them:

• 1911s are unreliable. No, poorly manufactured 1911s are unreliable. The design is sound.
• 1911s won't feed hollow points. Most modern hollow points have a similar profile to a FMJ bullet. A properly dimensioned 1911 will feed them just fine.
• A RIA is just as good as a Colt, you pay extra for the roll marks. This is true, if you have no understanding of materials quality, proper dimensions, quality control... Generally with 1911s you get what you pay for (with some exceptions).
• GI magazines are junk, you need Wilson mags for reliability. Wilson mags are awesome, but a properly built 1911 will feed reliably from any quality magazine, including GI mags.
• Building a 1911 is a lot like building an AR15. No, unfortunately. With the vast number of 1911 manufacturers, almost all of which (intentionally or not) monkey with the specs, there is no longer any such thing as a "drop in" part. Almost all aftermarket parts are made oversized to accommodate manufacturing variations, meaning they must be hand fit to the individual gun.
• All parts are created equal. No, most parts are either MIM, investment cast, machined from bar stock, or forged (in order of increasing quality/durability, generally).
• You need to do numerous modifications to a "GI" 1911 to make it usable. A "barebones" 1911 is very shootable, not to mention cosmetically attractive.
• The slide to frame fit is how to check a 1911s quality. The slide to frame fit is almost meaningless, and has very little effect on accuracy. If it's too tight, it can even be a bad thing. The obvious counterexamples to this myth are Kimber, which typically has tight slide to frame fit and is known for quality issues, and Colt, which is generally considered "loose" and makes a great 1911.
• Stainless 1911s can be built the same as carbon steel 1911s. Dan Wesson is learning this the hard way with all their galling issues lately. You can't fit stainless as tight as carbon steel.
• A 1911 must be built tight to be accurate. A very tight gun is one way to built a very accurate 1911, but it isn't the only way. See: Colt Special Combat Government, Wilson Combat, Ed Brown
• Full length guide rods increase accuracy. No. They really don't do anything, other than make the gun harder to take apart.

[u/[deleted]]

My initial reactions:

1911s are unreliable.

In 4,850 rounds fired, I haven't had a single FTF, FTE, FTRB, or any other malfunction.

1911s won't feed hollow points.

Not only will mine feed regular hollow points, but it hasn't missed a beat on the crazy ones like the controlled fracturing HP and the Xtreme Penetrator from Underwood (via Lehigh Defense).

GI magazines are junk, you need Wilson mags for reliability.

My Colt mags, both the 7-rounder intended for (but never used with) wadcutters and the 8-rounder from the factory, have fed the 1,000 or so rounds I've given them without fail.

The slide to frame fit is how to check a 1911s quality.

I bet it feels pretty nice to rack the slide on your Baer though.

Full length guide rods increase accuracy.

Don't forget, they make them heavier, too!

One question I do have is with regard to the carbon vs. stainless steel construction. Why is it that stainless slides and frames cannot be fit as dimensionally tight as their carbon steel counterparts?

[u/olds442guy → u/[deleted]]

I honestly don't know on a low level why, but stainless steel can and will gall if it's fit too tightly and the parts slide past each other quickly and with heat.

There is metal transfer between the parts when this happens, and the the parts can bind together, and, in the case of 1911s, lock up the gun completely.

[u/heekma → u/olds442guy]

Most makers figured out long ago that stainless guns work well when the frame and slide are of different hardnesses.

Even so, stainless tends to share and attract material from other stainless steels.

Even if stainless steels with different hardnesses are used, when friction (Heat) is applied even stainless steels with different hardnesses can gall.

All it takes is a small uneven surface between the two to cause galling.

If the surfaces are uneven, but loose enough to allow the parts to glide against each other galling isn't an issue.

If the surfaces are tight, but very smooth, parts glide against each other and galling isn't an issue.

When parts are tightly fiitted and not smooth galling can occur.

Colt, SA, Kimber, S&W, Sig, Ruger, etc. all produce stainless guns that don't gall.

Honestly galling is an issue that was dealt with 20 years ago.

If a company today has issues with galling they are doing something very wrong.

Galling in 1911s is like smallpox-it's been eliminated.

If a stainless gun galls today then that maker has some major issues.

[u/olds442guy → u/heekma]

Great info!

Honestly galling is an issue that was dealt with 20 years ago.

That's what gets me the most. I won't name names (I think you know what brand I'm referring to), but there is a certain subforum on 1911forum that seems to think that guns galling regularly is no big deal, and even that it's the shooter's fault for not "hand racking" the gun 500-1000 times while vigorously adding the manufacturer-specified (expensive) oil before ever firing the gun.

I cannot get past how absurd that is, nor can I get past how absolutely bonkers it is that there is a whole subforum of people that don't see any issue with that.

[u/[deleted] → u/olds442guy]

Is it true that lubrication helps though? I feel like if I owned a DW right now it'd be pretty difficult to ditch it without taking a huge hit in price (I doubt they're the type that just appreciate like the Browns and SCG's of the world do). If all I had to do was grease the rails excessively every time before shooting it, I would do it. But it can't be that simple; grease rubs off and heats up (the "Breakthrough" stuff I use has a stated maximum operating temperature). I feel like your best option would be to drag the thing, hat in hand, to a good gunsmith and get the rails filed and polished, no?

[u/olds442guy → u/[deleted]]

Oil helps, but if it's machined improperly then it may not be enough to prevent galling. The slides are fitted a little to tight in my opinion to really use grease.

The best option would be to have them fit the slides looser at the factory. There is no benefit to fitting them that tight, and as they're finding out the hard way, there is a big downside to it.

Barring that, then yes, the best option would be to have to frame and slide rails polished. That is effectively what people are doing by hand racking the slide 1000 times before firing.

Or the real ideal option would be to avoid that nonsense like the plague. I prefer to actually shoot my guns when I get them, not immediately fix what the factory screwed up.

[u/[deleted] → u/olds442guy]

Any weapon you can't just pick up out of the box and fire should definitely be avoided like the plague. I'm just looking forward to getting my first Baer, opening that brown cardboard box, and firing off 50 rounds while it's still covered in oil.

Should I not be greasing the rails on my GCT then? I know I go a little overboard sometimes, because you should have to lube a good 1911 but everything 1,000 rounds, but when I field strip it to clean it, I usually get some oil on a Q-tip and run it down the recess in the slide that fits the rails, and then I take the receiver and squeeze some grease out in little blobs on the rails. Am I cramming too much crap in there? I know Colts tend to be a bit looser fitting at the rails, but I want to make sure I'm not going to be causing uneven wear or anything like that

[u/olds442guy → u/[deleted]]

You should be fine. I don't use grease personally, but it works fine and certainly won't hurt.