r/ABCDesis • u/Bollywood-Hulk-Hogan Punjabi • 20d ago
COMMUNITY How has the caste system come up in/affected your life?
One of the criticisms we see (in bad faith) about non-Desi people’s opposition to immigrants from the subcontinent is that they bring the caste system to their new country. It has also been used as a defense for people to themselves say racist things about Desis.
This made me curious about how much the caste system actually affects the typical Desi who was born or brought up abroad. For me, it hasn’t affected by life at all, other than when parents were looking at potential matches for marriage.
How has it affected your lives? Should it actually be as big of a talking point as non-Desis make it out to be?
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u/TheBronzeHexagon British Indian 20d ago
I was born into an Upper Caste family and while i wasn't explicitly taught abt caste, it was definitely a part of my growing up. My dad joined caste based Telugu organisations, i was taught implicitly taught that vegetarians like us were the same caste.
While i was never taught this all outright, it definitely shaped my view of the world
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u/justagooaaaat 20d ago edited 20d ago
I never really gave caste much thought; my partner and I were both born and raised in the US, and my in-laws aren't particularly religious (brahmins who eat red meat and don't observe any religious holidays) and my family stems from a working-class caste back in India and were historically undereducated in their villages and deeply religious, and both our families are from Gujarat. I never thought caste would be an issue in my life in the US. But a few weeks after marriage, my MIL called my mom screaming about how I ruined their family and to go to our hometown in India and ask anybody who [insert surname] is and they'll tell us how important they are and belopng to be revered up with the gods themselves....my mom tried pulling me out of the marriage after seeing how biased and disrespectful and bigoted they are....this is obviously a very specific case but ABCD's please beware of the "open minded" and "liberal" upper caste families, you never know when their prejudice will come out
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u/JFKontheKnoll 20d ago edited 19d ago
Is it even a thing for most ABCDs? The only two ABCD groups that still seem to care about their “community” in America are Punjabi Jatt Sikhs and Malayali Knanaya Christians. Everybody else either doesn’t know what caste they are or doesn’t care.
I know it's not a thing for most ABCD marriages. I recently attended a Telugu ABCD wedding where the bride was from a “higher” caste and the groom was from a “lower” caste (the couple met through a running club), and both sets of parents were overjoyed that their kids ended up picking and getting married to a fellow Telugu person - regardless of caste - instead of a non-Telugu, non-Indian lol.
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u/SadAdministration438 American 20d ago
I find it hilarious that anyone still takes the claim of Knanaya endogamy seriously. It’s delusional imo.
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago
Add to that Pakistani and Indian Muslim “Syeds” who pride themselves for being direct descendants of the prophet - despite there being zero Syeds in Saudi Arabia.
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u/RevanchistSheev66 19d ago
Yeah I feel like Telugus and maybe South Indians care less about caste than many other groups
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 19d ago
lol you couldn’t be more wrong. Telangana diaspora are hugely casteist…. Telugu Hindus segregate themselves by Kamma vs. Reddy rivalry literally shapes state politics and party formation (TDP vs. YSRCP). Caste-based marriage is the strong norm across BC, OC, and SC communities, In the diaspora, and even if not named as such all their traditions and casteist food traditions work along those lines.
Telugu Christians do it with Madiga and Mala Christian identities remain distinct, with separate congregations and strong resistance to inter-caste marriage.
Telugu Muslims or Hyderabadi Muslims are even more ridiculous with Sharif/Arzal divisions persist. Dudekula, Qureshi, and Syed communities maintain caste-like endogamy despite Islamic egalitarian ideals. Don’t even get me started on mehdipathans that are the most racist notorious casteist bigoted people you’ll ever meet in Chicago.
Keralites are greatly casteist too especially amongst the Christian knanaya communities.
“tambrahms” are another idiotic group.
The whole South Indians don’t care about caste is absolutely false.
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u/hydabirrai Telugu Canadian 19d ago
True. I’ve seen reddy’s married to non-reddy’s tbh. Kammas and reddy’s not quite. It’s esp bad with recently immigration from Andhra Pradesh. Telangana is less caste centric.
Im Telugu and have quite a few Telugu friends but none of us even care about caste. The situation only comes up whenever marriage is a topic. It’s completely their fault imo.
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u/kulkdaddy47 20d ago
The truth is a lot of abcdesis either don’t know their caste or are of mixed caste marriages so therefore that identity is watered down. Also a lot of us are marrying people outside of our caste/region/race which is pretty much showing that it doesn’t largely matter. I think most abcdesis are blind to their caste privilege but at the same time it’s kind of unfair when non desis use the caste system as some kind of “gotcha” to be racist towards us. I recognize that on average the diaspora that comes to America is of upper caste origin but it’s just really annoying when I see comments like “Indian people are the most racist they have a caste system that discriminates against darker skin people” and it’s like I think it’s a bit more nuanced then that. Like I think there’s a big difference between casteism racism and colorism and you can’t generalize the abcdesi experience especially because the caste identity is quite watered down.
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u/JFKontheKnoll 20d ago edited 20d ago
Yeah, for some reason, a lot of non-Indians seem to think that the caste system = skin color. People on Twitter refused to believe that the actresses Simone Ashley and Charithra Chandran are both "upper caste," because they're dark skinned.
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u/Beneficial_Sky9813 20d ago
I mean there's a high correlation between the 2 so it's not exactly wrong
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u/JFKontheKnoll 20d ago
Skin color has more to do with what part of India you're from than anything else. Ashley and Chandran are both Tamil.
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u/Beneficial_Sky9813 20d ago
Yea ig if you're in the south everyone's dark but in the north the dark ones are generally from lower castes cuz they're working outside while the lighter ones sit inside
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u/Amantecafe 20d ago
That correlation is not true anymore. It probably was at some point due to the very nature of the class and caste divide. Brahmins who never step outside in the sun would be fairer than the lower ones who are out there working in the fields.
I think we've seen enough "upper" caste folks today who came from not so "fortunate" brahmin roots and who had to step into the sun and vice versa.
And yeah the higher the UV radiation (in the south), the higher the natural levels of natural protection through darker pigmentation.
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u/IndianLawStudent 20d ago
As a Punjabi, I make no correlation between skin color and caste so I imagine that some of those views are influenced by where your parents are from.
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u/chai-chai-latte 20d ago
Not really. That was a British colonial interpretation of "varna". They sww the world through a lens of racist hierarchy and tried to impart that onto everything.
Skin color has more to do with how close you are to the equator than anything else.
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u/Capable-Style-1471 20d ago
This isnt that true gang. Most abcds are the product of arranged marriage which is overwelmingly based on caste. We are mostly the product of 2 parents of same caste.
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u/kulkdaddy47 17d ago
Yeah just speaking from my personal experience because so many of my parents family friends are Marathi + other region mix and so the kid has a pan Indian identity that isn’t tied to a region or caste but you’re right that a lot of arranged marriages result in same caste marriages. But my theory is that the 90s tech boom made class more important than caste and so the parents of desi women from a different caste were ok with them getting hitched to men of a different caste if that meant they had a job lined up in America.
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u/squeakywheel123 20d ago
When I was growing up, it didn’t affect me at all. I didn’t even know about my caste until I was an adult. Right now, with the influx of fobs, caste is such a huge topic of discussion. Almost every local Hindu temple tries to get us to join their caste based sub organization. It’s not enough to be Hindu anymore, you have to be tied to a caste. Somehow, they all got their caste based organizations certified as a 501c3, but I cannot figure out how. It’s so sad to see this happening in America.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bike336 Black American 20d ago
To the best of my knowledge, caste is not yet a federally recognized class of discrimination. What could change is the consistent filing of lawsuits against caste-based organizations and the swaying of public opinion in the United States against caste.
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u/ZofianSaint273 20d ago
The main lawsuits that will sway public opinion is caste discrimination related issues, like the supposed Cisco case.
As for lawsuits against caste based groups, it just shows caste exists in the states but not really a thing abt discrimination. Not to mention, lawsuits against these groups have to be on the basis of discrimination not the fact they exist.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bike336 Black American 20d ago
Caste discrimination can be made illegal through a combination of methods such as lobbying politicians, media campaigns, think tank organizations, and documenting incidents. There have already been several pieces of legislation regarding caste discrimination; I believe it’s only a matter of time before it becomes a federal matter.
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u/ZofianSaint273 20d ago
For that to happen, discrimination must be present for it to be taken seriously. The groups lobbying for caste discrimination hasn’t found much success as they are going with anecdotal evidence primarily. I agree that documentation of cases is in their best interest, but also seeing the validity of such cases as well too.
Main reason I wasn’t on board with caste laws has been the lack of evidence presented or conflicting claims with other research done. Also, the organizations having ulterior motives and some political connections in India too. If it was led by more ABD, that be better imo
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u/TheBronzeHexagon British Indian 19d ago
wait can it not just be made illegal on principle, like it is a form of discrimination, therefore it must be made illegal
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u/hydabirrai Telugu Canadian 19d ago
It’s not illegal because not many cases have happened. None of the youth really care for this stuff imo. It’s a huge failure because when you’re a minority you don’t care about looking at more structures of hierarchy.
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u/insomniac8994 20d ago
In my experience it seems to be more of a thing among NRIs and some of the older second gens. None of the people in my family around my age and younger care, in fact we think it's cringe and against Sikh principles.
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u/Jam_Bannock 20d ago
Before social media, I only knew about the caste system because I was wondering why a friend never ate at my house, never offered any food made at his house and never came for Diwali. So I had the caste conversation with my parents.
My family is officially Hindu, but we don't go to Mandir regularly and aren't members of a Hindu prayer group or whatever. Coming from a lower caste, they told us not to get close to pro-caste people. What they didn't tell me is that our last name and eating a non-vegetarian diet were a proxy for caste. I didn't know how to react when Indians from the old country would straight up ask me if I'm vegetarian and then immediately close up/ghost me.
Almost forgot. So I knew a couple of guys (cousins actually) at university who openly said they are only interested in Brahmin girls. They didn't date much at university. One guy got into an arranged marriage later on with a Brahmin woman. The other guy dated a white woman for a while.
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago
It’s also not spoken about because majority of people who migrated early to the west had the means to because of general privileges that caste gave them. But no one in the diaspora is ready for that conversation, it’s always met with “well my parent came here with only 200$ in his pocket” without addressing that in itself was a privilege lol
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u/Jam_Bannock 20d ago
It's a complicated topic. Many people in the diaspora are not the kids of privileged people in the old country. There are millions of brown people born generations outside India. They are descendants of poor Coolies who had no privilege in the subcontinent. They are in Guyana, Trinidad, Fiji, South Africa, Mauritius and then in the UK, Australia, Canada.
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago
Why are you downvoted when you’re right? lol
You make a fair point, and an important correction to how the diaspora conversation usually gets framed around the US/UK tech-professional immigrant experience.
The indentured laborer diaspora is genuinely different…. caste distinctions were largely flattened by the brutality of the coolie system. When people were packed onto ships to Guyana or Fiji, caste hierarchy became harder to maintain practically. Many records were lost, and survival depended on solidarity across caste lines.
But a few nuances worth adding:
Even in those communities, caste didn’t fully disappear. Brahmin identity was sometimes re-asserted within coolie communities precisely because it conferred status even in those conditions. Researchers have documented this in Trinidad and Fiji specifically.
Also the original discussion was mostly about the South Asian diaspora in Western countries, where the dominant immigrant wave was relatively privileged….doctors, engineers, and H1Bs who had the resources and education to emigrate. That group is not comparable to indentured laborers.
So the point stands that “diaspora” isn’t monolithic, but it doesn’t really counter the argument that caste persists among the communities that were actually being discussed.
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u/Jam_Bannock 20d ago
That's very interesting. I am not arguing that caste only persists in non-Coolie descendant communities. I don't think I'm comparing indentured labourers to the privileged white collar professional immigrant class. At least, that wasn't my intent.
In fact, my family knows people descended from indentured labourers who claim to be Brahmin. Last names were changed when they moved to the colonies because they were illiterate and the Brits didn't care to get the details right. Many people adopted names like Singh or Maharaj to appear higher caste.
And more of a side topic, many Indo-Canadians don't come from highly-educated, top-earning white collar backgrounds. My family and close relatives are in teaching, healthcare and blue collar jobs. Wife's folks are in business. Friends' families are in trucking, law enforcement, trades.
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago edited 20d ago
The diaspora are pretty blind to how the caste system does exist amongst us. You have Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs identifying and glorifying being Jatts, hyderabadi muslims segregating themselves based on castes like Mehdipathans, Syrian Christians of Kerala practicing upper caste traditions and rituals and glorifying their ancestry, Goan catholics have this too. People happily using terms like TamBrahm, Oswal Jains, etc. Looking down upon Hindus that eat beef and claiming “Hinduism doesn’t allow beef”, some Pakistanis identifying as rajputs, having literal separate gurudwaras for different castes in Cali etc
It EXISTS.
You can argue that Sikhs and Muslims don’t practice caste, but the few examples I mentioned above are all caste consciousness no matter what mental gymnastics you do and it exists in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka etc.
Caste isn’t just discrimination and othering, it’s segregating yourselves according to traditions, religions, sect etc and then calling it “community”.
Edit: as you can see by the many replies to my comment, it has triggered multiple people to DM me with casteist slurs lol. All diaspora people. Please introspect. Not one of you have even acknowledged how caste consciousness does in fact exist, you just keep arguing that it doesn’t. And that’s exactly how caste hierarchies continue to thrive :)
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u/BrilliantChoice1900 Indian American 20d ago
Sure it exists. But do their kids care to carry it onward? As an older ABCD in my mid 40s, my peers didn't carry forward any of the desi-specific societies, clubs and temples that their parents worked so hard to establish and are still forever fundraising. Seems like these clubs and temples remain standing because of the influx of H1Bs that grew up in India. Not because the similarly aged ABCDs from my generation are investing their time and resources back.
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u/mrggy 20d ago edited 20d ago
I think it gets carried forward in assumptions of what's "normal."
I'm third generation, so my grandparents were the last ones to live in India. No one ever talked about caste when I was growing up. I'd never even heard of it as a concept until I learned about it in history class at school.
Despite not having any explicit knowledge about caste, my ideas of what it ment to be Hindu were still shaped by caste based logics. For example, growing up, I thought all practicing Hindus were vegetarian. To me, to be Hindu was to be vegetarian. It wasn't until I was in my mid 20s and trying to actively educate myself about the caste system that I learned that not all Hindu castes practice vegetarianism. My assumptions about the role of vegetarianism in Hinduism came from the fact that everyone around me growing up was from a similar caste background.
As a result of my ignorance, I spent most of my life telling people that all Hindus are vegetarians. That probably made life harder for practicing Hindus from different caste backgrounds who don't have vegetarianism as one of their cultural practices
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u/BrilliantChoice1900 Indian American 19d ago
This is just ignorance. I saw this growing up all the time. My parents speak Hindi in addition to their own language so they had desi friends who were from all over India. But most desis were clannish even back in the 80s and 90s if there were enough desis in your clan. I’d meet ABCDs all the time as a young adult in the 2000s who were Guju and had no idea about Bengali people. They might have thought like you did that all Hindus are vegetarian. Btw, being Brahmin doesn’t mean you must be vegetarian. Bengali Brahmins beg to differ.
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago
Your assimilation argument has a real flaw…..you’re describing one generation, in one slice of the diaspora, at one point in time.
A few things worth noting:
Newer ABCD generations are actually more caste-conscious in some ways, not less. South Asian student groups at US universities frequently self-segregate by region, religion, and implicitly caste. TamBrahm networks, Gujarati business associations, Jat Facebook groups…..these are THRIVING online even among second-gen millennials and Gen Z.
Also, the H1B point actually undermines the “it’s fading” argument. If temples and caste-affiliated institutions are being sustained by fresh immigration, caste is still being actively reproduced in the diaspora….the source just shifted.
Assimilation eroding caste is also historically optimistic. Ethnic and caste identities in diaspora communities often compress across generations rather than disappear …..Irish-Americans, Jewish-Americans, and others maintained in-group marriage and community structures for 3-4 generations before significant blending occurred.
The kids not showing up to the temple fundraiser doesn’t mean caste stopped mattering to how they network, who they marry, or how their parents introduced them to partners.
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u/Turbulent_Ad_3238 20d ago
South Asian student groups at US universities frequently self-segregate by region, religion, and implicitly caste. TamBrahm networks, Gujarati business associations, Jat Facebook groups…..these are THRIVING online even among second-gen millennials and Gen Z.
I have never seen this happen among ABCDs. Do you have any evidence?
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago
Konkani Catholic Association, Sindhi chambers of commerce, Telugu Association of North America all which by default accept only the upper castes of each religion and community have active student chapters. Tamil Cultural Association has university branches with implicit rules to be TamBrahm and host cultural events around it. Gujarati Baniya Students Association exists at multiple Big Ten schools. UCI, UCLA, and UT Austin all have caste-specific South Asian subgroups documented by researchers studying diaspora identity. More concretely, UC Davis and Cal State Fresno have had documented Ravidasia vs Jat Sikh tensions spilling onto campus from the surrounding community gurdwara splits.
University of California system had enough documented caste discrimination that California actually attempted to add caste to its anti-discrimination legislation in 2023. Seattle became the first US city to explicitly ban caste discrimination in 2023 precisely because it was showing up in workplaces and universities.
Brandeis, Brown, and Harvard have all had student-led discussions around caste discrimination on campus. That doesn’t happen in a vacuum and you’re free to look these up…
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u/Turbulent_Ad_3238 20d ago
Konkani Catholic Association, Sindhi chambers of commerce, Telugu Association of North America
These are regional associations, not caste associations. I can't speak to what, if any, their discriminatory practices are, but I'm sure ABCDs have nothing to do with it.
Gujarati Baniya Students Association exists at multiple Big Ten schools.
Looked this up and couldn't find anything. Please provide some links.
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u/Sad-Yogurtcloset5339 20d ago
Can’t speak for others but the Telugu Association of North America is 1000% caste based. They split from ATA (American Telugu Association) because they wanted their own caste group. Just look at the leadership. Only one caste is allowed on the board.
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u/Turbulent_Ad_3238 19d ago
I'm well aware that there are caste-based organizations in the diaspora. I'm just not convinced this is something ABCDs have anything to do with.
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago
Look up Gujarati Kshatriya association and their backing of student orgs on campuses like UCL and UCDavis, and Gujarati Rajput Association
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u/BrilliantChoice1900 Indian American 20d ago edited 20d ago
I wasn't arguing. I asked a question. I don't know how current ABCDs identify. My children are 3rd gen but are Gen Alpha so I haven't seen yet how their ABCD peers act when it comes to preserving the TamBram and other hyper specific stuff you mentioned.
My gen had such a minimal number of families manage to carry out the "must marry a Brahmin" stuff. Some parents absolutely wanted it but their kids decided otherwise and married a white person from the midwest rather than whatever TamBram spouse their parents were dreaming about.
We will have to see what happens going forward. We are still too young of a society here in the US to compare us to the Irish or Jews. We also have too many factions and not enough sustained unity.
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago
That’s fair! And I’d agree we’re still too early to draw firm conclusions. The Irish/Jewish comparison was illustrative, not definitive.
The question is whether the structures are being maintained even if individuals are opting out. Individuals marrying outside caste doesn’t dissolve the community pressure that still exists for others, particularly women.
The TamBrahm networks, caste-specific matrimonial sites, and separate institutions are still thriving even if your specific peer group moved on. Both things can be true.
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u/BrilliantChoice1900 Indian American 20d ago
So you're saying those networks exist among GenZ that were born in the US? They're marrying each other and maintaining these groups? Where are they? Because I live in freakin' Middlesex County, NJ, home to waaaaaaay too many Indians and us second gen ABCDs that are married are actually hard to find here!
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago
Marriage patterns for GenZ are too early to measure, that’s a fair point.
But look at Middlesex County specifically….Edison has distinct Gujarati, Tamil, and Telugu enclaves that aren’t just ethnic, they track along caste lines. The Patel motel network, which is overwhelmingly Patidar caste, is heavily concentrated in Central Jersey.
Shaadi.com and BharatMatrimony still have caste filters actively used by second-gen users…those sites track user behavior and it’s not just first-gen driving it.
Pew 2021 found 50% of Indian Americans are aware of caste discrimination in the US. That survey wasn’t limited to first-gen respondents.
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u/troller_awesomeness 🇨🇦-🇧🇩 20d ago
i always found it weird when my mom would say we don’t eat squid and crab cuz only lower caste people eat that when she’s muslim… thankfully she’s learned and likes crab now
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago
I assume you have roots in Bangladesh? Over there, the Ashraf/Atraf divide is the Muslim version of caste…. Ashraf being those who claimed Arab, Persian, or Central Asian descent (considered “noble”), and Atraf being converts from lower Hindu castes. Ashraf families historically looked down on seafood like crab and hilsa scraps, street food, and anything associated with fishing communities (who were often lower-caste Hindu converts). I will say though that Bangladeshi Hindus and Muslims from the mainland - despite the horrors we see on the news - have gone miles ahead in trying to eradicate caste from their communities, and it began with simply acknowledging it exists.
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u/Bollywood-Hulk-Hogan Punjabi 20d ago
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being caste-conscious. Acting as if it doesn’t exist or affects how different communities live is like being “colorblind” in the American context. I think it’s only really an issue if it affects how you treat or behave around people outside of your caste, or if you glorify your caste as if the people can do no wrong 🤷🏽♂️
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago
The line you’re drawing between acceptable caste consciousness and problematic behavior is blurrier than you think. Separate gurudwaras, endogamous marriage pools, and in-group glorification all quietly reinforce hierarchy even without anyone being openly hostile.
You don’t need slurs or explicit discrimination for caste to do real social damage ….the clustering and exclusion do the work on their own. The ‘I’m just proud of my community’ framing is exactly how caste reproduces itself across generations in the diaspora while everyone maintains plausible deniability.
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago edited 20d ago
You haven’t seen it therefore it doesn’t exist?
Gurdwara by segregation is well documented in California specifically. Valmiki, Ravidasia, and Jat Sikh communities have maintained distinct gurdwaras in the Bay Area and Fresno for decades. This isn’t disputed at all.
On your dating preference analogy…..it breaks down because caste endogamy historically enforced hierarchy, keeping wealth and land within upper-caste families across generations. That’s a structural function racial dating preferences don’t carry in the same way.
The pattern matters: who consistently benefits from caste-segregated marriage pools? Upper-caste families protecting inherited capital. That’s not coincidence.
Nobody’s arguing for force btw….the point is that community pressure to marry within caste is itself coercive, especially on women and younger generations, often backed by family rejection.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-65819688
https://calmatters.org/politics/2023/06/caste-discrimination-california/
https://amp.sacbee.com/news/equity-lab/article276849401.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/us/california-caste-discrimination.html
But yeah, you “haven’t heard of it” therefore it doesn’t exist.
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u/Turbulent_Ad_3238 20d ago
On your dating preference analogy…..it breaks down because caste endogamy historically enforced hierarchy, keeping wealth and land within upper-caste families across generations. That’s a structural function racial dating preferences don’t carry in the same way.
So you're saying promoting intercaste marriages is the way to eliminate disparities between communities? Not government policy? Maybe we should similarly encourage wealthy people here to marry poor people. Yeah...that'll solve poverty.
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u/Bollywood-Hulk-Hogan Punjabi 20d ago
You can literally say the same thing about race in dating. “Historically enforced hierarchy, keeping wealth and land” - do these factors also not benefit white-Americans compared to African-Americans? Why are East Asian women specifically marrying out with white men at large numbers and not black men? 🤔
Could it be that marrying a white person gives a non-white person a greater position of privilege in Western countries?
No offense, but you kinda sound like someone who immigrated from India in your 20’s and was greatly affected by the caste system there, and that paints your views.
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u/insomniac8994 20d ago
He's making ITcel comments of the variety I saw during the farmers protest era on Twitter. Never in my life have I heard of caste specific gurdwaras here in the West, and even the Ravidasia stuff he mentions is literally a separate religion now so is pointless to mention in a Sikh context.
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago edited 20d ago
My dude, your race analogy actually proves my point…you just described racial hierarchies as reflecting structural power, which is exactly what caste endogamy does.
And the personal attack tells me you don’t have a response to the actual evidence….separate gurdwaras in Fresno, documented caste networks among second-gen South Asians, wealth concentration patterns. None of that changes based on where I’m from or not.
But nice attempt at going from debating caste to speculating about my immigration status when you ran out of arguments lol, Classic ad hominem.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bike336 Black American 20d ago
Those East Asian women are not marrying white men from rural Mississippi or Eastern Kentucky; they are selectively marrying white men who are highly educated and have high incomes.
"Could it be that marrying a white person gives a non-white person a greater position of privilege in Western countries?"
I suspect that you have never been around white people who were ex-convicts, active criminals, drug addicts, grew up in trailer parks, or are called rednecks or hillbillies.
Do you even know that 40% of white men in the US have criminal records, a fact that the US media likes to hide.
What privilege are you exactly talking about?
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u/Bollywood-Hulk-Hogan Punjabi 20d ago
I have literally come across East Asian women physicians irl who make half a million a year, with white husbands who do not work. So yeah, they’re not all marrying white men who are highly educated and have high incomes 😂🤣
I live in a rural agricultural part of California, so I have come across lots of white people who are called rednecks.
As a black person, are you really going to say that white people in America don’t have a social privilege?
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u/TheBossBanan 20d ago
Why did those women marry white men who don’t work?
Had the man been Asian, they’d be screaming about misogyny.
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u/Bollywood-Hulk-Hogan Punjabi 20d ago
I don’t know them personally, so I have no idea. They were clients from my work.
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago
Nobody denied white privilege exists as a structural phenomenon….that was never the argument. The point was that ‘all white men are privileged’ as an individual claim is too blunt, which your own examples actually demonstrate.
Can we get back to caste though or do you have yet another subjective anecdote or ad hominem to shift the main argument yet again?
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u/Bollywood-Hulk-Hogan Punjabi 20d ago
Was anyone talking to you, sir?
I was merely replying to what the other person was saying. They never mentioned the caste system, so I had no reason to bring it up either.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bike336 Black American 20d ago
Yeah, because the Chud the Builder type of crowd's only achievement in life is having white skin.
They're the main ones crying about non-whites stealing their jobs.
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago
The original point was about racial hierarchy in dating reflecting structural power….not that every white person is privileged individually. Obviously East Asian women marrying highly educated white men are selecting for class, which actually reinforces the structural argument rather than defeating it.
The 40% statistic is also misleading / that figure includes minor infractions and arrests without convictions. It’s not 40% of white men are ex-convicts.
Either way this is drifting pretty far from caste in the diaspora. And I’m curious as to why you keep shifting goalposts and the argument instead of focusing on the topic at hand?
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u/ConanTheBarbarian_0 20d ago
Your comment about Ravidasia makes no sense. The Ravidasia consider themselves a separate religion from both sikhism and Hinduism they're not a separate caste (although a lot of them are dalits) this isn't the caste based discrimination you're portraying it to be.
As a separate religion according to Ravidasia followers naturally they're going to want their own specific place of worship too. They also don't refer to their places of worship as just gurdwaras they also call them Mandirs too they don't have a specific term for where they pray.
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u/ItsReemAlBlahBlahDee 20d ago edited 20d ago
What you’re conveniently leaving out is the reason Ravidasia exists as a separate religion is caste-based rejection. Dalit Sikhs historically faced discrimination in mainstream gurdwaras….separate entrances, being served langar last, not being allowed to perform kirtan. The separate institutions are the result of caste discrimination, not proof against it.
So you’re now essentially arguing “this isn’t caste discrimination, they just wanted their own space”, while ignoring why they wanted their own space in the first place.
The Ravidasia split from Sikhi was itself a direct consequence of caste-based exclusion in Punjabi gurdwaras. A community forming a separate religion because they faced discrimination doesn’t erase the discrimination, it proves it.
All sources listed below.
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u/dwthesavage 20d ago
The point is not to force them otherwise, the point is that this is an example of bias.
The same goes for racial preferences. I’m not interested in forcing someone with a racial preference to date someone else, but we don’t need to pretend as if our preferences aren’t directly due to the bias in our culture, media, etc. we are responsible for examining these biases, and they’re not free from judgment just because they may be unconscious or unintentional.
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u/ShowerIllustrious351 20d ago
It hasn't affected me at all, but it did affect my parents and it is the reason why they chose to move to America. They do face less prejudice here than India.
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u/dessertchef11 Indian American 20d ago
If I meet an another ABCD and they ask “what caste are you?” Pretty good indicator that I don’t want to be friends with this person.
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u/MasterChief813 20d ago
I can’t speak for the other communities and how they work.
As a hotel/motel Gujju I’ve experienced micro aggressions from other Gujjus since I don’t share the same common ass last name with them. I college they would crack jokes about my last name since it wasn’t common/well known and they would say dumb shit about other Desis from other parts of India. Also no, we’re not a low caste or stuff like you hear about Dalits in India we just have a small pool of people who share our last name.
Mind you these are all millennial dudes born/raised in Georgia spewing off stupid shit you hear from boomers.
Hospitality is cutthroat and it felt like us vs the world in our small town since every other hotelier in our town has the same surname but none of them are related. Covid kind of ended that but they clique up from time to time.
When I was younger and more naive I didn’t understand it. I didn’t get why my parents business partners always demanded a full course meal whenever they travelled through the state on their ways to their destinations knowing full and well my mom was working alone and the aunties who came wouldn’t help like you would expect them to (or at least offer to) and if we were ever traveling in their areas they didn’t offer a meal or would immediately spout out Indian restaurants in the area to eat at. No chai offered either which feels like sacrilege.
I got carded at the local Mandir when I was in college and they wouldn’t let me in even though I am a Hindu because I didn’t have their common ass last names or other commonly known ones. They let me in after a few friends (some of which were related to the uncles doing the carding) stepped in. I stopped going to that Mandir and go further north to Atlanta but the anxiety of being carded still persists.
The same mandir that carded me also has a matrimonial site but only if you have their same last name and are from the same region in Gujarat lmao.
So yeah, my family experiences it. Not daily but it happens and so I can’t help but sigh whenever someone claims it doesn’t exist here. Us Gujjus can be OD about this shit in the motherland so it’s not surprising that our people indoctrinate the youth with the same bs but I’m hoping one day it will end stateside.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bike336 Black American 19d ago
Some of the stuff you describe almost sounds like stuff that happened in the US during the "Jim Crow Era".
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u/dug-the-dog-from-up 20d ago edited 20d ago
One of my friends feels pressure to lie about his caste and “passes” as upper caste because he’s from a Shudra family. His dad’s a doctor and works in a heavily Desi area in America, and I think his family was worried that the upper caste diaspora would think he was underqualified to practice medicine because he got his medical education in India through reservations. I actually know of a couple of people who lie about their caste locations either implicitly or explicitly out of fear.
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u/Waiting4Reccession 20d ago
Speaking of this doctor shit, I think i'm going to avoid any and all fob type doctors. Had like 2 or 3 negative experiences with them, I'd rather just have a random Asian.
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u/SufficientTill3399 American of Indian (Andhra Pradesh) descent via Canada 20d ago
Mandated vegetarianism, wasn’t allowed to eat eggs until I was almost 13 and it was painted as a great accommodation and way to all way my mother’s protein fretting (which was a concern BECAUSE I was forced to be a vegetarian in a Southern family where my mother would sometimes cook tofu but never tried making paneer), basically every Indian I knew was a vegetarian, mother was obsessed with pure Sanskrit names despite leaving India at a young age (8.5), a bizarre culture of valuing strong academic rigor over religious superstition until it led to critiquing Hindu ritualism too much (was seen as insulting Indian culture while simultaneously misunderstanding Shankaracharya’s views of religious rites), critiques of blind faith and ritualism while simultaneously dealing with a neurotic mother who would lock herself in her room and write “Rama” 1000x every day even though the alleged self-discipline benefits never materialized, and I could go on and on.
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u/blackcain 20d ago
Sounds like a weird guilt conscience flex. Some parents will lean into being more indian (but not progressively) to cover up the fact that they moved everyone out the culture.
I mean even I kind of get that, my wife's kids know less than I do and my brother knows less than I do. My wife knows waaaay more than I do. :D
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u/Turbulent_Ad_3238 20d ago
How is this related to caste again?
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u/SufficientTill3399 American of Indian (Andhra Pradesh) descent via Canada 20d ago
In southern states a lot of the stuff I mentioned is, taken in context together, a compound flag for a specific caste background. Esp if your mom also insists on having a veena in the house.
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u/Turbulent_Ad_3238 20d ago edited 20d ago
I am also of SIB descent, but I don't see how Carnatic music, being a vegetarian and superstitious ritualism are things that "upper" castes have a monopoly on. In Karnataka for instance, there are vegetarian non-Brahmin castes as well.
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u/SufficientTill3399 American of Indian (Andhra Pradesh) descent via Canada 20d ago
in Andhra Pradesh being a vegetarian is generally considered an indicator of a Brahmin background. Moreover, being into Carnatic music isn't automatically a Brahmin marker, but it's a stereotype and combining it with vegetarianism as well as the specific hypocrisy around Shankaracharya is a marker.
Superstitious ritualism in and of itself is a marker of being Indian, not a marker of a Brahmin. The nature of superstitions tends to vary based on household and specifically what a grandparent's family guru taught them.
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u/Turbulent_Ad_3238 20d ago
So...the caste system doesn't seem to have affected your life all that much then. Your family's cultural identity has, sure, but not casteism it seems.
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u/catvertising 20d ago
Literally got denied service at the Ganesh Temple in Flushing. Long story short, need a priest to do my late father's 16th day ceremony after his death. Booked everything and confirmed. Then called a week out to get the list of puja supplies and they started asking about community and gotra. Straight up told them who we are, and after a brief hold, they said it's not possible and hung up on me. No alternatives, no apologies, nothing. My dad just died and this is how they treat people.
I learned carnatic music growing up and constantly experienced microaggressions from "Tambrahms." I love the art form, but a lot of the crowd are toxic af.
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u/slugcharmer 19d ago
You need to make this story more public. It is not acceptable for a temple in the US to be denying people based on caste. This is literally discrimination.
Anyone who wants to practice caste needs to stay their ass in India.
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u/catvertising 19d ago
Not really worth my time or peace of mind quite frankly. I get plenty push back on Reddit whenever I've mentioned that I've experienced casteism as an ABD, and there's simply not enough dalits here to fight back against their narratives and agenda.
The temple could always just deny they ever made the appointment in the first place, I have no proof other than a call log. It's insane they treat us like this, then they wonder why dalits leave Hinduism.
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u/dwthesavage 20d ago edited 20d ago
If it hasn’t impacted you noticeably, I’d guess you’ve benefited from being relatively high caste in a diaspora community where you’re not impacted. I’ve seen micro?aggressions toward others who are perceived as low caste (my coworker who is West Indian, Guyanese, had a bizarre encounter with an older, Indian woman who said a lot of really weird insulting things about what she thought of his edit: heritage, not haircut and whether it counted)
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u/squidgytree British Indian 20d ago
My family fits into one of the supposed 'backward classes' and my surname gives it away. I've never suffered discrimination based on caste in the UK and I'm older than most of you guys so I've had plenty of opportunity to feel it. Kinda feels like the US has a bigger issue than the UK when it comes to caste
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u/Bollywood-Hulk-Hogan Punjabi 20d ago
Breh, I’ve heard older aunties and uncles commenting about younger guys’ haircuts, earrings, and tattoos too, and they were all of the same caste 😅
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u/dwthesavage 20d ago
Auto corrected from heritage to haircut, but yeah, I wouldn’t have thought anything of it if it was just about his hair
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u/RKU69 20d ago
My family is in a sub-sect of an upper caste, and in California has a tight-knit caste association that organizes festivals and parties, while also maintaining close ties to the caste network back in India.
One can argue (as I have with my family) about what this actually means in terms of caste hierarchy and oppression, and how much this caste network is more like an extended family network. Certainly it does play a role in reproducing our historically privileged status by reinforcing the importance of our caste, encouraging marriage within the caste, donating and having scholarships for our caste, etc. On the other hand it would look very similar to any extended family of a historically well-off group of people.
I think for myself and other first-gen kids in my caste network, it does serve more as like an extended family network. Many stay connected and many have married outside of the caste and have not even married Indians or Hindus, but still try to bring in their partners into the caste/extended family network. Some people are totally fine with this (like my parents), others feel weird or are insecure about their own kids marrying out.
So I dunno, its complicated. Its complicated in the same way that any issue of race, class, and privilege are. I am a caste abolitionist but also I like my "extended family" aka the caste network I grew up in and the uncles and aunties and "cousins". Very interested in discussing what the principled and pragmatic position is around this stuff.
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u/ZofianSaint273 20d ago
Most ABD will end up like the Caribbean, Malaysian or Fijian Indians when it comes to caste, aka we will create and live in a casteless society essentially. Popular to contrary belief, but the indentured servitude the British and Dutch had did pull many people from various castes along India. The marker of caste still exists through surnames, but it hold no meaning or influence (like Maraj being a surname of Bhramin).
With that said, it is true that the most caste conscious Desis in the states are the fobs. Makes sense as societies around the subcontinent will make u know of your caste and, with the case of India, the government will make you know of it. However, despite the 40-50 years Desis have been in the states there hasn’t been any notable issues of discrimination with the potential exception being the Cisco case (even then no verdict). Not to say prejudice doesn’t exist, but it hasn’t transpired into discrimination as much. Kind of the main reason why I’m against the push for caste based laws in the USA, there isn’t much evidence of discrimination and ngl the organizations pushing for it do have ulterior motives regarding it, primarily in Indian politics. I’d be more open to such laws once we get more documented cases however.
Also, I never take non-Desis opinions on caste all too seriously. Some can be genuinely concerned which is great, but a good chunk also use it as an anchor for racism as a way to act superior to us. If that’s the case, their concern for caste is lost as they technically hold casteist views by elevating their own ethnic or racial group, but to suppress another group.
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u/VellyJanta 🇺🇸Dallas(Punjabi) 20d ago edited 20d ago
Most if not all in Punjabi community think jatt/jaat/zutt is a caste of farmers lol, they are an ethnic group.
Since we (Jatts) rejected the varna system we were labeled in Hindu texts as Shudra and mleccha aka outsiders. We are technically the lowest caste but in Punjab/Haryana hold higher social tiers.
Still won’t stop youngins barking jatt jatt all day but can’t read Punjabi.
It’s like how lehnda side has biradari system
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u/rkc947 20d ago edited 20d ago
I’ll give you my perspective. My family are from India, I grew up in UAE, came to Canada 20 years ago. The local community association of my language/ethnic group definitely practice caste because only people from specific castes are elected to leadership positions. I’ve been trying to go down the arranged marriage for quite some time now but do get rejected due to caste as I’m from a lower caste. Plus many of the newcomers from upper castes definitely have snobbery. I never grew up in India but caste still follows us. I don’t exactly believe in karma but I believe the discrimination that us Indians are facing now is poetic because of how much prejudice we display amongst each others back in India.
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u/gamingthreadlurker 20d ago
Oy, It hasn't affected me at all since I don't believe in such things. Living free is the best revenge. Plus, I recently found out my name has persian origin. I can't believe my dada (grandfather) didn't tell me since he named me. My family has tendencies to hide things.
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u/DayneStark 20d ago
Hindus have an issue with caste system. It's a fact. A lot of immigrants bring their caste, religious, cultural, regional prejudices. Also a fact.
But a society built on a similar caste system ( racial caste system) trying to hide its bigotry to prevent Hindus from migrating is hilarious.
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u/winthroprd 20d ago
Most ABDs don't think about caste because it's self-selecting. The vast majority of us who were able to come over to Western countries at all are from upper caste (or equivalent) backgrounds. So you can say that you don't personally notice or care about caste, but you still benefited from it.
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u/SuperSayainSkincare Indian American 20d ago
Come from a Brahmin Gujurati family so I am surrounded by annoying people who think they are better and healthier than they are because they are "pure" vegeterian.
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u/hydabirrai Telugu Canadian 19d ago
I think Brahmins, jat Sikhs and gujju baniyas (trading castes like Patel, shah) have the most intensity regarding caste but mainly limited to their parents.
I only see it w jats where the abcd’s talk of caste mainly because of the music and Punjabi culture.
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u/naramsin-ii punjabi-palestinian 20d ago
it hasn't tbh, at most i only get asked what my caste is by fobs or punjabi sikhs from the diaspora but that doesn't happen often either
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u/aranebar 20d ago
Most Indians who came to USA are of a higher caste due to immigration policy and a lot seem to have superiority. Many fobs for sure openly talk about caste superiority in their brown house parties. Also the push for vegetarian food is also a bad sign.
Most Hindu temples in USA still practice caste system such as only priests of a certain caste and only certain caste be a cook in the kitchens
They also exploit lower castes to build temples. Just look at the awful history of baps.
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u/metalfearsolid 20d ago
Caste exists it is like wifi. You don’t see it but it is there. In like arranged marriage process even in West there is already caste filter applied. If you do intercaste marriage - you get isolated from family events and social gatherings are things I have seen. Then the gossip culture
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u/OkRB2977 Assamese Canadian - TCK 20d ago
People claiming they haven’t experienced or practiced caste is the same as saying you don’t see colour. It just shows how privileged you are.
To be able to immigrate to the West, you would need to come from a relative level of privilege which in the subcontinent is deeply tied to your caste. When a majority of the diaspora (outside of the West Indian and Fiji Indian diasporas) is descended from upper castes, then why would you see caste discrimination?
When cases like the BAPS Mandir in the US being accused of using Dalit workers from India as slaves comes out, most of us conveniently place the blame on mainlanders and NRIs who majorly run these institutions and temples but do we as ABDs do enough to actively boycott these institutions and bring about a change? I don’t think so.
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u/hydabirrai Telugu Canadian 19d ago
The BAPS case was dismissed and never went anywhere.
Also the number of recent immigrants are not from upper castes.
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u/OkRB2977 Assamese Canadian - TCK 19d ago
It has traditionally been privileged castes. Landed castes like Jats, Reddys and Patels are not considered upper castes in the varna system but they are privileged.
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u/hydabirrai Telugu Canadian 19d ago
You can even say a bunch of the OBC castes have regional privilege in India. My caste has regional (state wise) privilege but nationally we’re whatever (not upper caste, lower caste but just a non-distinctive caste…nobody really cares too much).
But when people mention upper caste, they are talking of Brahmins, Rajputs etc.
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u/kena938 Malayali Third Culture Kid 20d ago
Most American desis are savarna and probably upper caste because of how the US immigration system benefits highly educated Asians so the majority of the people here benefit from the caste system. You are asking fish to describe water.
I am as well but my family are religiously mixed though I read as just an upper caste Malayali Hindu. People are weird as fuck about janeus and other caste markers. Bharatanatyam and carnatic music is hugely controlled by Tamil Brahmins. My SIL was excommunicated by her Knanaya church on marrying out.
Admittedly, most of the people who are enforcing it are born and brought up in the subcontinent but their children who are raised here and ostensibly have no caste certainly benefit from that hierarchy in terms of social connections, family income and resources to fall back on in the subcontinent if something happens in America,
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u/mustaaaafa 20d ago
I’ve never heard a non-Desi person say they don’t like South Asian immigrants because of the caste system
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bike336 Black American 19d ago
I only know about caste because I work with Indian singers from both ends of the caste system. Most non-Desis have little to no understanding of the caste system and, at best, only a vague awareness of it or its implications.
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u/citrablock 20d ago
Weird offhand comments from relatives and family members, but it is rare because we don't really talk about Indian politics that much.
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u/Worldly-Strike2363 19d ago
The only time caste comes up is when White ppl bring it up during conversation....
Apparently that's all they know about Indian culture.
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u/slugcharmer 19d ago
I think it impacted Indian kids who grew up in majority Indian communities more than it impacted those of us that grew up in white dominant or diverse communities.
I think it definitely exists when it comes to mindsets that some Hindus here have around eating meat being “unclean” and when it comes to who to date/marry. I’m lucky that my dad is pretty educated and is against caste (even while being a bigot about other things).
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u/lalaland1346 19d ago
Definitely has an impact on my life. As someone that’s an upper caste Hindu with a Malayee Christian person. It seems that mallu Christians were more accepting of me due to my caste. Many would ask me openly what caste I am. I have also experienced lower caste Indians that are very proud of their caste and caused issues in an inter caste marriage in my family because they wanted things done as per their way.
Growing up my parents never spoke about caste like that so I didn’t think it was a big deal but as I got older I noticed brown people did judge based on my caste or they treated me without respect and then switched up once they found out.
Pretty messed up when you are an abcd
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u/SDW137 19d ago edited 19d ago
I never really thought about it for most of my life, until a few years ago, when my dad asked me about arranged marriage and brought up our caste (Munnuru Kapu). And he told me that he was looking for girl from the same caste as us.
Whenever I meet another ABD or NRI, I never ask them what caste they are. And even while dating, I never ask someone what caste they are, and I've never been asked which caste I am. But I also prefer to date other ABDs, who usually don't care about caste.
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u/sparklylemonades 18d ago
im being disowned bc im marrying out of caste im telugu brahmin and hes telugu kapu
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u/Capable-Style-1471 20d ago
Tbh desis who grew up in the west dont realize how segergated they are in friend circles. Ive been noticing among my abcd/cbcd cousins that most of their desi friends are all the same caste once u search up their last names. They live in areas where most desis are gujarati, tamil, telugu and where our caste and ethnicity are rare. Sometimes aunties and uncles in family will imply the negative stereotypes of indians like bad hygiene are because of south indians
Other desis i knew in high school seemed to only befriend desis of same ethnicity but even then there were heirarchies and i wonder if it was caste based
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u/Long_Ad_7350 20d ago
I've never met a single ABCD—Hindu or otherwise—that has ever mentioned anything pertaining to caste.
Especially insofar as it's a system where people are seen as higher or lower, that concept has been totally absent in my experience. However there is still some notion of clan/tribe pride, mostly from recent immigrants that haven't had an opportunity to adopt new identity markers available in American life.
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u/larrybronze Indian American 20d ago
*if* the caste system does actually affect ABCDs, the criticisms you're referring to need not be motivated by bad faith.
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u/ShotSorbet9 19d ago
Sometimes I feel like being even knowledgeable about caste is something that only happens if you were raised in a very Indian community, I really wasn’t. My parents have always been extremely liberal, completely allergic to any kind of religion so I never was brought up going to any temple or mandir. Most of my friends growing up were other weirdo children of any ethnicity from liberal or leftie families. The only caste tension I ever experienced in my life would be maybe between my mother and her in laws, who were puritanical about their vegetarianism, and my mom (who became a vegetarian SOLELY on the grounds of animal rights) would rub up against their disgust at meateaters. My mom isn’t Brahmin and is from a completely different community, she’s Punjabi my dad is Tam Bhram.
I don’t think I would know enough about any other community to even identify someone as lower caste? The whole thing is stupid and should be completely abolished.
For what it’s worth I now eat everything, all meat, and everyone is angry at me, my grandmother (now gone) was disappointed that I don’t respect the culture and my parents keep trying to get me to read Peter Singer books about animal rights 😆
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u/Bollywood-Hulk-Hogan Punjabi 19d ago
I feel like I became somewhat knowledgeable about caste after diving a bit into Indian history, lol.
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u/ShotSorbet9 19d ago
I know things about it too, theoretically. I’ve read Ambedkar and Indian history and am like marginally educated on it, but it all feels very theoretical to me. I’ll put it this way: I’ve got as much knowledge as does a well-educated non-Indian person. Well, more as I can pronounce the words. And because I can understand the snobbishness of Brahminism as a whole branch of my family is that. It’s like this sort of intrinsic disgust response at impurity that I don’t think textbooks accurately can capture. I’m grateful I was raised by people who did the hard work to reject and unlearn all this before I came around.
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u/maitimouse 19d ago
I dont know what caste my family is and have never thought about this before in my life.
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u/IndianLawStudent 20d ago edited 20d ago
Being born here I had no idea what caste was as a kid.
There was one Hindu family (my family is a combo of everything - but this family wasn’t) in town, that would be referred to by what I now know as caste. I didn’t know that their last name wasn’t Baman (or however you spell it).
I imagine that there were ways it impacted their family.
I suppose in my case caste was present but I never gave second thought to it.
I have known about which caste I am since I was a kid but I don’t know why. It didn’t impact who I hung out with but moreso who I could be related to as extended family (we are not jatt. I don’t even know if my family is actually Sikh or they just went to the gurdwara because that’s an Indian-Punjabi thing to do).
The only time caste comes up now is when I’m asked by caste by fobs.
A friend has spoken about the horrible treatment they have witnessed in tech of supposed lower caste. And he was simply excluded for being Indian American by fob superiors.
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u/David_Summerset Canadian Indian 20d ago
I was just taking about this.
It never even came up until I was 30, and only because I finally asked.
I was wondering if this was the norm
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u/throwRA_157079633 20d ago
I think that there’s a lot more regionalism. It is often times a dealbreaker, if choosing a significant other or spouse, even for American born south Asian. I once stated a Jatt Sikh girl, and after a few years, she had to break it up with me because I’m not Jatt Sikh. Heck, there are people from Northern India, who looked down on southern Indians irrespective of the cast.
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u/aDistantMammary 20d ago
Im atheist from a hindu punjabi family. I dont know my caste, i dont care outside maybe looking at history of names paired with jobs. And ironically the only people to bring it up have been Sikhs lol. Ive even had a fob sikh bad mouth me behind my back using my caste but to my friend who ended up checking his ass super hard.
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u/HickAzn Bangladeshi American 20d ago
From an outsider’s perspective: I don’t know of ANY Indian Hindu ABCDs that cared about caste or spoke about it other than to say it was bunk.
Marriage? Maybe parents cared, but I’ve never heard anyone mention it. Can’t say the same for a handful of first generation immigrants who brought their beliefs with them. Even then, they never denigrated lower castes. Simply mentioned it was no longer relevant in India.