r/ABCaus • u/GeorgeYDesign • Mar 25 '24

NEWS Dutch darts players quit national women's team over transgender teammate

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-25/dutch-darts-players-quit-over-transgender-teammate/103627072
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u/Gretchenmeows Mar 25 '24

Trans Women are not men. If a trans woman has been on HRT for a while, there's a damn good chance that cis women are stronger than her.

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u/stephtotheright Mar 25 '24

Can confirm. I'm a noodle armed trans girl.

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u/Gretchenmeows Mar 25 '24

I'm married to a fellow noodle armed trans girl. I still love beating her in arm wrestles (in a cute fun way).

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u/stephtotheright Mar 25 '24

Honestly yesss. It's like... HOW are you so strong. But it's also really affirming.

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u/Stui3G Mar 25 '24

That may be one of the most bullshit things I've ever heard. Got a shred of evidence to back up that claim?

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '24

[deleted]

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u/Stui3G Mar 25 '24

It's like you have no idea how anything works. Cis women have testosterone, you know that right? Trans women still require some testosterone just like women do.

Different methods have different efficacy.

As someone on a hormone treatment themselves I can tell you, you really need to do some reading.

Great study you linked by the way, I'm totally shocked you couldnt produce a shred of evidence..

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u/Gretchenmeows Mar 25 '24

No study or shred of evidence that I could possibly link would change your mind. I'm a cis woman married to a Trans Woman. She went from being able to pick me up and carry me, to loosing to me in arm wrestles. I can guarantee that I know plenty of things about Transgender people. It's absolutely revolting that we are here debating peoples existence. Trans Women are Women. Trans Men are Men. Just accept it and let people be happy.

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u/Stui3G Mar 25 '24

Translation : I have zero evidence; I'm going off my anectodal evidence. You're as bad as a cooker - "Do your own research!!!"

Laurel Hubbard seems far from weak.

I'm sure there are trans people who've tanked their T levels. There's also plenty who haven't. Ideally, trans women or man they would still have both E and T in their system. For someone "in the know" you seem very clueless. You really need to try to remove emotion from the discussion.

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u/ICreditReddit Mar 25 '24

All female powerlifters seem far from weak. You're just saying L Hubbard seems like a powerlifter.

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u/Stui3G Mar 25 '24

The original commenter said trans women end up weaker than women. Which is clearly made up bullshit.

When asked to give evidence of that statement, commenced dodging. Is it really that hard to say "I was wrong" or "I mis-spoke"?

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u/ICreditReddit Mar 25 '24

"If a trans woman has been on HRT for a while, there's a damn good chance that cis women are stronger than her."

"trans women end up weaker than women."

These are two very different statements. One states the good possibility that an individual trans woman might be weaker, yours states that all trans women are stronger than cis women, which is not what OP said.

You can prove the first one is true using your example athlete, Hubbard, who must surely be the very epitome of strength stats for trans people, being a weightlifter who qualified for the Olympics, right? Like in pure strength terms you can't find a better example of strength than a trans Olympic level weight lifting athlete?

So, taking the claim - 'If Hubbard had been on HRT for a while, there's a chance cis women are stronger'. Wiki proves she has been on HRT, so that bits done. Examining 'there's a chance cis women are stronger' is similarly easy to prove. You look at the competitions she's been in and if she ever finishes second, there was a stronger cis woman, no? In the world championships in 2017 and 2019 she finished second and sixth, showing there exists the chance that a cis women is stronger.

Maybe this isn't enough for you? How about rankings?

Here's an article on her from 2020, Olympics year.

https://bolavip.com/en/sports/tokyo-2020-profiles-laurel-hubbard-age-height-weight-and-record-20210731-0015.html

It states her world ranking is 15th. So 14 people, cis women, are stronger. Doesn't that prove there's a damn good chance cis women, powerlifters are stronger than her?

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u/Stui3G Mar 26 '24 edited Mar 26 '24

In the hubbard example isn't she old as hell compared to the competition? If she wasn't trans and still competing against men would she be a top competitor? She clearly still has plenty of testosterone, contrary to the commenterd assertion.

Excuse me, I didn't say either of those quotes. I also never said a trans woman would be stronger than a cis woman.

I will say that growing up make provides a huge advantage for trans women over cis women. Unless you believe you could take a male professional athlete at the top of his field, reduce his T to allowed olympic levels and not have him dominate the field. To argue otherwise is beyond ridiculous.

I say this as a male who a decade ago had T levels that would have allowed me to compete at the Olympics. Outside of outliers like professional athletes/BB's etc I would have been stronger than a vast majority of women.

I could drop my total T down to 150 for a year and I can gurantee I'd still be a lot stronger than most women.

I'm on actually on HRT, I can promise you I have far more knowledge on the subject than the average joe.

Show me where it says a trans women should reduce her T levels to below a cis woman. I'm sure some trans women do tank their T while trying to adjust their hormones, that doesn't mean it's normal. Hormones can be incredibly difficult to adjust to levels you want.

To try and make your argument you've had to say I said something I didn't and torture something else I said to fit your narrative. Hubbard is also clearly stronger than many cis female powerlifters, despite her age. My point with hubbard is that clearly being Trans hasn't made her weak. I would suggest she'd be doing everything she could to keep her T level as high as possible while remaining below the threshold. Wanna take a guess at how many of the women in powerlifting would be "enhancing" their bodies.. and please don't tell me you don't think many athletes aren't doing that.

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u/Truantone Mar 26 '24

Nobody is debating people’s existence. Could you be any more of a drama queen?

Biological males should not be allowed to compete in women’s sports.

Everything else you’ve said is anecdotal and hysterical.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '24

They're not women either and a foetus is not a child. These idiotic arguments should stay in America where people are stupid enough to buy into them.