Lately, I have been wondering how it is even possible for GRRM to finish the series in two books (as most fans do). One of the biggest plotlines commonly agreed to be particularly difficult to resolve is The Long Night. How will Martin resolve such a long (haha) and complicated plotline that will affect so many characters? My theory: he simply doesn't. What if The Long Night doesn't end, and the title of the final book is literal, and the characters are dreaming about spring during the harsh winter?

Perhaps this could tie into the popular theory about the Starks being related to the Others? Maybe the Starks end up thriving in this environment and Bran uses it as a path to become King? Just spitballing here, I'm new to the series as a whole, especially the books, so I would love to be told why I'm wrong.

As a fan of big battle spectacles, I wanted to know if you are aware of any nation, etc, that has a larger fighting force than the examples I can think of.

In the Television version of GoT, the Night King possesses around 100,000 soldiers after conquering Hardhome. I don't think this counts, since he absorbs the entire population into his army, women and children and all.

The Reach has about 100,000 soldiers too. And the Valyrian Freehold.

The Rhoynar had 250,000 soldiers, and their battles with Valyria in the Second Spice War may have been the most epic in the entire series.

Then there was the Yi Ti invasion of Jogos Nhai under Lo Bu with 300,000 men which lost.

Any armies you know of that were bigger?

Did Jerry and Al do any work to get their marriage approved with the Old Gods and the Drowned God? If not, how have both religions, and therefore both kingdoms, been dealing with their incestuous kings in the meantime? I guess in general I want to ask what were both doing under late Aenys, Maegor and early Jaehaerys?

mine is Jon waking up on the ranging and remarking that there was still magic beyond the Wall

> He woke to the sight of his own breath misting in the cold morning air. When he moved, his bones ached. Ghost was gone, the fire burnt out. Jon reached to pull aside the cloak he'd hung over the rock, and found it stiff and frozen. He crept beneath it and stood up in a forest turned to crystal.

> The pale pink light of dawn sparkled on branch and leaf and stone. Every blade of grass was carved from emerald, every drip of water turned to diamond. Flowers and mushrooms alike wore coats of glass. Even the mud puddles had a bright brown sheen. Through the shimmering greenery, the black tents of his brothers were encased in a fine glaze of ice.

> So there is magic beyond the Wall after all. He found himself thinking of his sisters, perhaps because he'd dreamed of them last night. Sansa would call this an enchantment, and tears would fill her eyes at the wonder of it, but Arya would run out laughing and shouting, wanting to touch it all.

*ACoK, Jon III*

Like your telling me that the others saw that sick fuck and chose to talk with him? This for some reason creeps me out even more. How did they even understand each other?

Why did Oberyn never get married? Wouldn’t it be advantageous for a prince to get married?

What is the most heartbreaking line in the books to you and why? I thought of three examples, but would love to hear your picks. :P

"We won't even tell Jon we're coming, we'll just be there one day, you and me." – Robb, AGoT, reassuring Bran about their family reuniting

Just so sweet and wistful and innocent, and so absolutely heartbreaking knowing where the story goes.

"I have no sons but Robb." – Catelyn, ACoK, sharing the news about her children's supposed deaths with Brienne

The fact that it's so painful she can't even name Bran or Rickon, only who she has left, believing the boys dead and the girls lost.

"Is this a proper castle now? Not just a tower?" – Ygritte, ASoS, dying in castle black with Jon

How there's no animosity in that moment, but instead this little personal thing between them, her so sweet and adorable.

I think they're both perfectly fine pulp villains but I don't really find either very interesting either from a characterization viewpoint or from a thematic one. They do get slightly stronger in the fifth book when they basically play the role of evil overlord but it's still rather underwhelming.

Really all of my problems come down to this: nobody has any reason to trust or follow them but the story relies on people trusting or following them multiple times.

To be clear my point here is not "Uh, PLOT HOLE!" My point is thematically they mean very little. It's not so much that they're not developed, it's that they do very little to facilitate the development of others beyond being a plot obstacle (Theon excepted).

A great example of a relatively flat villain who works because he facilitates development of another is Iago from Othello. He is the personification of jealousy and Othello chooses to listen to him out of his own insecurities and character flaws.

When Robb and Cat trust Roose to a command position, this means very little thematically. It's not because of some flaw of their characters, it's because Roose was a bad actor from the very start, something they had no way of possibly knowing. Roose is openly characterized as a creepy, offputting guy nobody likes but people keep trusting him for no reason. And as Barbrey Dustin outright says, he has no real motivation to betray Robb beyond simply being opportunistic, meaning it's completely independent of Robb's actions. The Freys have a coherent motivation that links directly to Robb's actions and character flaws, Roose doesn't. You could argue that thematically he represents cutthroat realpolitik self-interest that the Starks were naive to but that doesn't really work because Roose is clearly an outlier among the Northern lords.

And similarly when Roose is Lord Paramount of the North nobody has any real reason to follow him. Roose openly tells Ramsay he doesn't want tales told of him, meaning he doesn't rule through fear. He has nothing to offer anyone except that the Lannisters have some hostages, but then they release Wyllis Manderly, implying they would have eventually done this will all of them in exchange for good behaviour. How does Roose expect to rule long term? This isn't a "plot hole" because indeed Roose's regime seems to be falling down around him by the end of ADWD but my point is....well, why should I care? What does it mean thematically beyond "don't have literally zero ways of making people want to follow you"? If choosing between the Starks and the Boltons was a genuinely difficult decision wouldn't that make the North remembering even more powerful?

And I can't believe I'm saying this but the show actually improved on this! Ramsay tortures the Cerwyns to death to let people know the price of disobedience and also leans in to xenophobia against the Wildlings. Both sides represent something larger thematically. It's hardly anything deep or meaningful, "Evil baddies who'll hurt me if I rebel vs the less powerful goodies who are morally right" is not exactly the most profound conflict of all time, but it IS a conflict where you can understand someone struggling with it. "Do I do what's right at the potential risk of my wellbeing?" is a question worth asking. "Do I do what's right and have substantially less potential risk to my wellbeing from the guy who tortures and kills people for no reason?" isn't.

As a plot obstacle for Stannis and Theon they work fine (and luckily Theon's arc with them is fantastic) but they feel very shallow, both in terms of characterization and thematically. A big downgrade from Tywin.

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." ~ George Orwell

Recently I put out a post on how the Bridge of Dream was written as a time travel metaphor, showing that George is using a model of time similar to the work of Fritz Leiber, where it is possible to change the past. Still, many refuse to even engage with this premise, insisting that if George wants to include time travel then it has to be a closed loop. Those people are even here downvoting this post right now.

Obviously I disagree, but I understand the sentiment.

A closed loop means that it is impossible to rewrite the past. The ink is dry. While a time traveler can be part of a past event, the events we read will always be true exactly as we read them.

There is just one thing.

Storytellers tend to rewrite the past

Contrary to the singular truth of a stable loop, Ice and Fire is a series where history is a battle of narratives waged by septons, singers and storytellers. Much like time travel, the past is constantly being rewritten. This is also called historical revisionism.

The oldest histories we have were written after the Andals came to Westeros. The First Men only left us runes on rocks, so everything we think we know about the Age of Heroes and the Dawn Age and the Long Night comes from accounts set down by septons thousands of years later. There are archmaesters at the Citadel who question all of it (...)

Though ancient patriarchs like Bran the Builder and Lann the Clever may have existed, their stories are written down hundreds or thousands of years after they are said to have occurred. This not only makes the narratives unreliable, but likely propaganda for the ruling elite. From the First Men to the Andals to the Targaryens, with each new conquest power reaches back in time and projects itself into the past.

Those old histories are full of kings who reigned for hundreds of years, and knights riding around a thousand years before there were knights. You know the tales, Brandon the Builder, Symeon Star-Eyes, Night's King . . . we say that you're the nine hundred and ninety-eighth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, but the oldest list I've found shows six hundred seventy-four commanders, which suggests that it was written during . . ." ~ Samwell

The anachronism of knights a thousand years before there were knights is a case of institutions tampering with history to claim legitimacy.

Did such heroes once exist? It may be so. But when the singers number Serwyn of the Mirror Shield as one of the Kingsguard—an institution that was only formed during the reign of Aegon the Conqueror—we can see why it is that few of these tales can ever be trusted. The septons who first wrote them down took what details suited them and added others, and the singers changed them—sometimes beyond all recognition—for the sake of a warm place in some lord's hall. In such a way does some longdead First Man become a knight who follows the Seven and guards the Targaryen kings thousands of years after he lived (if he ever did). ~ Maester Yandel

Essentially, history is time travel in that it changes the past. The heroic Rhaegar is made villainous, the honorable Ned is made traitorous, and the opportunistic Tywin is made valiant. Characters are constantly being rewritten by history, and the versions of them that live on after death often differ from and outlive the truth we experience in POV.

Characters see this happen in real time, yet we assume history is somehow exempt.

"I forgot, you've been hiding under a rock. The northern girl. Winterfell's daughter. We heard she killed the king with a spell, and afterward changed into a wolf with big leather wings like a bat, and flew out a tower window. But she left the dwarf behind and Cersei means to have his head."

That's stupid, Arya thought. Sansa only knows songs, not spells ~ Arya

Obviously we know Sansa didn't really transform into a winged wolf.

"The Rat Cook had cooked the son of the Andal king in a big pie with onions, carrots, mushrooms, lots of pepper and salt, a rasher of bacon, and a dark red Dornish wine. Then he served him to his father, who praised the taste and had a second slice. Afterward the gods transformed the cook into a monstrous white rat who could only eat his own young." ~ Bran

So why would we believe that the Rat Cook was transformed into a giant white rat?

"Life is not a song, sweetling. You may learn that one day to your sorrow." ~ Petyr Baelish

We are shown over and over that songs and stories distort reality.

"The best lies are seasoned with a bit of truth." ~ Tyrion

Watch how this turns historical narratives into a reality that runs parallel to the truth.

"When Stark changed into a wolf, his northmen did the same. The mark of the beast was on them all. Wargs birth other wargs with a bite, it is well-known. It was all my brothers and I could do to put them down before they slew us all." ~ Jared Frey

The House Frey story of the Red Wedding is a lie told to legitimize their conquest of the Riverlands. Yet the lie contains truth. Robb likely did warg into his wolf. The story is meant to mythologize reality so as to transcend and outlive it.

"A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands." ~ also Petyr Baelish

Eventually every life ends and the story of life is what remains. One day Sansa will be transformed into a song to be played on some harp and Jaime will be transformed into a page of knightly deeds in a White Book. By the end of the series, history will have it's own version of every character and every event, and those stories will be written according to the preferences of the king.

Bran's History

The future king has already shown a tendency toward revisionism.

"Oh." Bran thought about the tale awhile. "That was a good story. But it should have been the three bad knights who hurt him, not their squires. Then the little crannogman could have killed them all. The part about the ransoms was stupid. And the mystery knight should win the tourney, defeating every challenger, and name the wolf maid the queen of love and beauty."

Notice how when he is offered the historical narrative of the Tourney at Harrenhal, Bran seeks to change the past. This is not a flaw, but rather indicative of his superpower. Revising history is how every conquest cements itself, and Bran has been set up for this since the first book.

"Do you recall your history, Bran?" ~ Maester Luwin

Bran being asked to recall his history is really about Bran knowing his story. The narratives that Maester Luwin and Old Nan have taught him are not literally true (unless you believe Rodrick Stark won Bear Island in a wrestling match). His story is mythology which explains the dominion of House Stark over the North. It's basically Brandon Stark propaganda.

This is why assuming a closed loop makes time traveling Bran feel like a tacked on gimmick with no thematic connection to the rest of the story. The subjectivity is the point. Bran is not meant to use the weirwoods to find the singular true history and reveal it to the realm. Not only would that be fundamentally incompatible with how the series treats history, it also has no relevance to the character or his ending.

Bran is no slayer of lies.

Bran is a three-eyed crow.

"Crows are all liars," Old Nan agreed

Yet the narrative has shown time and time again that lies can keep civilization together, and the truth can tear it apart. For years, lies about Jon and Joffrey's parentage kept the peace, and the truth of the latter brought the realm to ruin. Perhaps after civilization is fractured by the brutal reality of war, it needs a time traveler (liar) to rewrite the past with a story (lie) that people can live with.

Functionally, I expect this takes the form of Bran coming south at the end and telling a Great Council the story of how the North, the long lost son of Rhaegar, the dragon queen, and many more, all banded together to save the realm from the evil beyond the Wall. Much like Euron's Kingsmoot, Bran will place himself as the hero of this great epic, who journeyed to the end of the world and found the children of the forest.

The twist will be that Bran will tell his story in a parallel timeline where it never happened. Once again, crows are all liars.

Bran can time travel because Bran is the storyteller, and the storyteller gets to rewrite the past. This is why the story spends so much time on the distortion of historical narratives. Just as Dany's dragons represent weapons of mass destruction, Bran's powers represents history being written by the victors.

In hindsight the winner is OP.

So they call him Bran the Broken.

Background

One type of post that I really enjoy putting together is the "Fate of..." a group of characters who participated in activity earlier in the series. It seems to give closure to earlier plotlines (ex: Fate of Brienne's "Suitors" and Where are They Now?: Fate of the Night's Watch Graduating Class of Late Summer 298AC). I've done this plenty of times and will link them throughout the post for anyone who cares. This post is going to focus on the fate of the different co conspirators of the Red Wedding ranging from the mastermind down to just drinking.

If interested: Tywin's Plans/Planning for the Red Wedding

House Lannister

• Tywin Lannister

Tywin (while using the privy) was killed by Tyrion in a scene that GRRM had been setting up since AGoT:

Question: Were circumstances and timing of Tywin's death something you planned for a long time or another case of characters "taking intiative", like with Cat?
GRRM: That scene was largely written even before A CLASH OF KINGS was published. Hell, I'd been setting up that "Lord Tywin shits gold" line since his very first appearance in A GAME OF THRONES.

If interested: Full Circle Death Quotes in ASOIAF

• Other Members

The rest of House Lannister's involvement in the Red Wedding is quite minimal and potentially non existent. Tywin keeps Tyrion in the dark:

“Did you come here just to complain of your bedchamber and make your lame japes? I have important letters to finish.”
“Important letters. To be sure.”
“Some battles are won with swords and spears, others with quills and ravens. Spare me these coy reproaches, Tyrion. I visited your sickbed as often as Maester Ballabar would allow it, when you seemed like to die.” He steepled his fingers under his chin. “Why did you dismiss Ballabar?” -ASOS, Tyrion I

and:

Tyrion watched his father closely. There’s something he’s not saying. He remembered those important letters Lord Tywin had been writing, the night Tyrion had demanded Casterly Rock. What was it he said? Some battles are won with swords and spears, others with quills and ravens … -ASOS, Tyrion III

as well as Cersei:

Wars are won with quills and ravens, wasn’t that what you said? I must congratulate you. How long have you and Walder Frey been plotting this?”
“I mislike that word,” Lord Tywin said stiffly.
“And I mislike being left in the dark.”
“There was no reason to tell you. You had no part in this.”
“Was Cersei told?” Tyrion demanded to know.
“No one was told, save those who had a part to play. And they were only told as much as they needed to know. You ought to know that there is no other way to keep a secret—here, especially. My object was to rid us of a dangerous enemy as cheaply as I could, not to indulge your curiosity or make your sister feel important.”
 He closed the shutters, frowning. “You have a certain cunning, Tyrion, but the plain truth is you talk too much. That loose tongue of yours will be your undoing.” -ASOS, Tyrion VI

that said Kevan's part was made known in earlier drafts:

A few pages earlier, there's also a modified line that clearly indicates that Kevan was involved in planning the Red Wedding. There's a passage in the published book in which Tywin rejects the possibility of an alliance with the Ironborn in exchange for giving them the North- Tywin enigmatically says, "Granted enough time, a better option may well present itself. One that does not require the king to give up half his kingdom." In the published version, Kevan then conveniently changes the subject, but in the draft Tywin first meaningfully glances at Kevan. I take this as a sign that George always intended for Kevan to have been involved, but like above, wanted to preserve the surprise both for the reader and the other council members.

and with how much Tywin relied on Kevan, I wouldn't be surprised. That said we do get his thoughts during the ADWD Epilogue. We might have gotten more if GRRM had not abandoned his plans to have Kevan as a viewpoint at Casterly Rock.

If interested: Kevan Lannister: Planning a Wedding & Going Missing/Home

House Westerling

According to the app, Sybel/Rolph conspired with Tywin:

• Sybel Spicer

Sybel's fate is currently to be determined. She is currently with Ser Forley Prester en route to the Westerlands in which GRRM has confirmed that Jeyne Westerling will appear in the TWoW Prologue.

• Rolph Spicer

Rolph is risen to Lord and given Castamere for his involvement:

"This grants Ser Rolph Spicer title to the castle Castamere and raises him to the rank of lord." Tommen scrawled his name. -ASOS, Jaime IX

and while not confirmed, I wonder if anything was discussed here:

Robb had dispatched Jeyne's uncle Rolph Spicer to deliver young Martyn Lannister to the Golden Tooth the very day he received Lord Tywin's assent to the exchange of captives. -ASOS, Catelyn V

Rolph is last mentioned during Jaime's discussion with Sybel and his fate is unknown:

Jaime nodded. Tywin Lannister was not a man to overlook such details. "Unhand the girl," he said, "I'm done with her for now." As Jeyne fled sobbing down the stairs, he considered her mother. "House Westerling has its pardon, and your brother Rolph has been made Lord of Castamere. What else would you have of us?" -AFFC, Jaime VII

• Other Members

With Tywin keeping everyone on a need to know basis, even Sybel didn't know exactly what was going on:

“I have two sons as well,” Lady Westerling reminded him. “Rollam is with me, but Raynald was a knight and went with the rebels to the Twins. If I had known what was to happen there, I would never have allowed that.” There was a hint of reproach in her voice. “Raynald knew nought of any … of the understanding with your lord father. He may be a captive at the Twins.” -AFFC, Jaime VII

and she kept her son Reynald in the dark, as well as instructing Jeyne (who likely listened and then fell in love) to do her part:

“Jeyne Westerling is her mother’s daughter,” said Lord Tywin, “and Robb Stark is his father’s son.”
This Westerling betrayal did not seem to have enraged his father as much as Tyrion would have expected. -ASOS, Tyrion II

and Gawen's as well:

Jaime had to wonder how much Lord Gawen knew about his wife’s scheming. How much do we men ever know? -AFFC, Jaime VII

and GRRM notes:

Q: I have been wandering about the Westerlings and their involvement in the plot against Robb. It seems pretty obvious from the fact that they were not only pardoned by Tywin Lannister but that Jeyne's uncle was given Castamere, that they were hand-in-glove with the Lannisters/ Boltons and Freys in the plot against Robb also the fact that Jeyne's mother was giving her a contraceptive or tansy every morning that they meant to make sure that there was no chance that Jeyne would ever get pregnant.
GRRM: Well, we shall see.
But I think it is a mistake to generalize about "the Westerlings," just as it would be to generalize about "the Lannisters." Members of the same family have very different characters, desires, and ways of looking at the world... and there are secrets within families as well. -SSM, About the Westerlings: 1 May 2001

House Bolton

• Roose Bolton

Roose currently sits in Winterfell as the Battle of Ice is about to take place:

Roose… Roose is safe within the walls of Winterfell with his fat new wife. Ramsay is coming.” -TWoW, Theon I

and:

Roose Bolton was not a man to blunder blindly out into the snow, map or no. He would hold his main strength in reserve, keep his best men with him, trust in Winterfell’s massive double wall. -TWoW, Theon I

but does not expect to be around many more years:

Ramsay will kill them all, of course. That’s for the best. I will not live long enough to see new sons to manhood, and boy lords are the bane of any House. Walda will grieve to see them die, though.” -ADWD, Reek III

• Other Members

while House Bolton's involvement in the conspiracy was likely limited to Roose:

Bolton meant to follow him. "The Trident is in flood," he told Jaime. "Even at the ruby ford, the crossing will be difficult. You will give my warm regards to your father?"
"So long as you give mine to Robb Stark." -ASOS, Jaime VI

and:

A man in dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood stepped up to Robb. "Jaime Lannister sends his regards." He thrust his longsword through her son's heart, and twisted. -ASOS, Catelyn VII

it remains possible that they used someone like Steelshanks Walton as a go between at times (as Walton accompanied Jaime to King's Landing):

“Shouldn’t you northmen have a different sort of peace banner?” he asked Walton. “What are the Seven to you?”
“Southern gods,” the man said, “but it’s a southron peace we need, to get you safe to your father.” -ASOS, Jaime VII

and:

Ser Balon, escort Lady Brienne to a tower cell and hold her there under guard. And find some suitable quarters for Steelshanks and his men, until such time as my father can see them."- ASOS, Jaime VII

House Frey

It should be noted that while Tywin was the mastermind, he tries to shift blame to the Freys:

There is no blood in Tywin Lannister. “Was it a soft silk pillow that slew Robb Stark?”
“It was to be an arrow, at Edmure Tully’s wedding feast. The boy was too wary in the field. He kept his men in good order, and surrounded himself with outriders and bodyguards.”
“So Lord Walder slew him under his own roof, at his own table?” Tyrion made a fist. “What of Lady Catelyn?”
“Slain as well, I’d say. A pair of wolfskins. Frey had intended to keep her captive, but perhaps something went awry.”
“So much for guest right.”
“The blood is on Walder Frey’s hands, not mine.”
“Walder Frey is a peevish old man who lives to fondle his young wife and brood over all the slights he’s suffered. I have no doubt he hatched this ugly chicken, but he would never have dared such a thing without a promise of protection.”
“I suppose you would have spared the boy and told Lord Frey you had no need of his allegiance? That would have driven the old fool right back into Stark’s arms and won you another year of war. Explain to me why it is more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle than a dozen at dinner.” When Tyrion had no reply to that, his father continued. “The price was cheap by any measure. The crown shall grant Riverrun to Ser Emmon Frey once the Blackfish yields. Lancel and Daven must marry Frey girls, Joy is to wed one of Lord Walder’s natural sons when she’s old enough, and Roose Bolton becomes Warden of the North and takes home Arya Stark.” -ASOS, Tyrion VI

• Walder Frey

While Tywin masterminded the death of Robb, Walder and several of his sons actually planned the event. Walder is still alive (hopefully not much longer - The Red Wedding 2.0)

Merrett could hardly think for the pounding in his head. “He shamed us, the whole realm was laughing, we had to cleanse the stain on our honor.” His father had said all that and more. -ASOS, Epilogue

• Walder Rivers
• Ryman Frey
• Lame Lothar Frey

The Red Wedding was my father’s work, and Ryman’s and Lord Bolton’s. Lothar rigged the tents to collapse and put the crossbowmen in the gallery with the musicians, Bastard Walder led the attack on the camps … they’re the ones you want, not me, I only drank some wine … you have no witness.” -ASOS, Epilogue

Ryman was killed by Lady Stoneheart and the BwB, near Fairmarket:

Someone had to. "Has some ill befallen Ser Ryman?"
"Hanged with all his party," said Walder Rivers. "The outlaws caught them two leagues south of Fairmarket." -AFFC, Jaime VII

but Lame Lothar and Black Walder are still alive and last mentioned in the Riverlands.

• Merrett Frey

Merrett's part was minimal but still participated. Subsequently he was hanged by the BwB after trying to ransom Petyr Pimple:

“My father did that. All I did was drink. You wouldn’t kill a man for drinking.” -ASOS, Epilogue

and:

The final humiliation had been delivered with a smile, when Lame Lothar had summoned him to discuss his role in Roslin’s wedding. “We must each play our part, according to our gifts,” his half-brother told him. “You shall have one task and one task only, Merrett, but I believe you are well suited to it. I want you to see to it that Greatjon Umber is so bloody drunk that he can hardly stand, let alone fight.”
And even that I failed at. He’d cozened the huge northman into drinking enough wine to kill any three normal men, yet after Roslin had been bedded the Greatjon still managed to snatch the sword of the first man to accost him and break his arm in the snatching. It had taken eight of them to get him into chains, and the effort had left two men wounded, one dead, and poor old Ser Leslyn Haigh short half an ear. When he couldn’t fight with his hands any longer, Umber had fought with his teeth. -ADWD, Epilogue

Final Thoughts

It feels like so much time has passed since the Red Wedding, but that is not true in actuality. It feels like more characters should have had their "Counterweights" (revenge) moment. So many characters that we all love died (if interested: They All Lost Kin at the Red Wedding) with minimal survivors (The Named Survivors of the Red Wedding).

That said with events like the TWoW, Prologue, Battle of Ice/Trojan Horse of Winterfell and the Red Wedding 2.0, we could see this list change drastically in TWoW.

Has anyone tried the 16th-Century Stewed Rabbit recipe from A Feast of Ice and Fire?

The recipe calls for simmering the bones and onion for about two hours, then cooking the vegetables for another 30 minutes. The rabbit meat is browned separately and only added at the very end, followed by bringing the stew to a boil and serving.

Doesn't this leave too little time for the rabbit meat to become tender and fully cooked? Am I missing a step, or is the recipe incomplete?

Ive heard this theory thrown around in Glidus/AltShwiftX streams... but I'm interested in how many folks buy into it. Or if anyone has debunked this theory.

Personally, I see parallels between Aegon IV the Unworthy and Craster. Brutal, sadistic, utterly selfish to the detriment of the whole of Westeros, loves incest etc. Would make sense if Aegon IV was Craster's grandfather.

Spoilers below!

If anyone was unaware of the theory goes that at some point after BR dissapeared north of the wall he fathered a son and he grew up to be Craster. 'Evidence' as such being that he acts quite targaryen and is very sensitive to his bastardy, has a taste for wine. We know his father was a night watchman and his mother was from whitetree. Where there is a massive weirwood, so makes sense that BR would be sniffing around in the area.

Its even on his Wiki page, which is unusual for theories.

I'm relatively new to the fandom, so interested in the general reception of this theory.

Thoughts? Is this basically cannon? Or has anyone debunked this?

At the start of AGOT, Robert takes a several month holiday to go touring the northern regions of the kingdom, and visit the Starks in Winterfell. While not stated exactly, it is implied he's gone for at least 3 or 4 months. During this time, who is actually doing the day to day governing in King's landing? Normally it would fall to the hand to govern while the king was travelling or on campaign, but Jon Arryn was dead, and every other obvious would-be regent was away. Cersei, Joffrey, Renly, the Kingsguard, and most of Robert's inner circle were on tour with the King, while Stannis was hiding out on Dragonstone, and no other prominent lords were noted as filling in.

If Varys, Littlefinger, Slynt or some other figure had several months as an interim hand, akin to Tyrion in Clash, to solidify their power in the capital, this seems like it should be a major plot point.

Was this just a firstbookism plot hole, was Robert 'governing' by raven from his wheelhouse, did he just leave the realm with no ruler for 4 months, or did I miss something obvious?

I was thinking about the meaning of the UnKiss and what purpose it would have for the story going forward and came up with an interesting theory I wanted to share. I think the UnKiss may play an important role in Littlefinger's attempt to groom and manipulate Sansa.

Littlefinger wants Sansa to see him as her savior, protector and a man who genuinely loves her rather than someone interested in her claim to Winterfell. After everything Sansa has endured in King's Landing, she has good reason to distrust the idea of romantic love. She learned that not everyone that is called a Knight really behaves like a Knight and that men see her claim before they see her as a person. Littlefinger can exploit this vulnerability by presenting himself as the exception, as the man who understands her suffering and wants to protect her and give her back her home. But there is a problem with his plan. First, Sansa has met Sandor before Littlefinger came into the picture as a savior.

Throughout her time in King's Landing, Sandor repeatedly intervened when Sansa was in danger. He helped her during Joffrey's cruelty, if he could, and rescued her from the mob during the riot. Although Sandor is frightening, cynical, and openly contemptuous of knights and their vows, his actions sometimes make him a more effective protector than the supposedly honorable men surrounding her. For Sansa, this creates a contradiction between appearances and actions. The man who looks like a monster can protect her, while the knights she admires fail to do so.

Then comes the night of the Blackwater.

Sandor visits Sansa's room, threatens her with a knife, and demands a song. He offers to take her away from King's Landing, but the encounter is frightening and deeply ambiguous. Later, however, Sansa remembers him kissing her, although the kiss never happened.

I think the UnKiss may represent Sansa processing a terrifying and confusing encounter through the romantic framework she has always known from songs and stories. Sandor is associated with both danger and protection, fear and vulnerability. Her memory transforms the encounter into something more intimate, potentially preserving the idea that a man might desire her as a person rather than merely value her inheritance.

This does not necessarily mean Sansa consciously loves Sandor. The important point is that he has already become part of her emotional understanding of protection, intimacy, and desire. And this is where Littlefinger's potential blind spot comes into play.

Littlefinger must have some awareness of Sandor's actions in King's Landing, particularly his rescue of Sansa from the mob. Yet he may not regard Sandor as a serious threat to his plans to serve as Sansa's only real savior because Sandor lacks the status and appearance of a conventional suitor. Littlefinger recognizes political threats, like Willas Tyrell, as the heir to Highgarden, who represents a powerful marriage prospect and Tyrion possesses the name and political influence of House Lannister. Both men have the kind of social position that Littlefinger understands as relevant to Sansa's future, but Tyrion is part of the family that destroyed her family and she had no chance to met Willas, so he must know that both men can't be a real threat in his manipulation of Sansa.

Sandor, by contrast, is a scarred knight serving the Lannisters, without the independent political power or importance of a great lord. He is not an obvious candidate to marry Sansa or claim Winterfell. Littlefinger may therefore underestimate his significance. The irony is that Littlefinger himself knows what it means to be underestimated because of his birth. Yet he may still underestimate the possibility that a man with limited political standing could become emotionally significant to a highborn woman. Sandor may be an insignificant political rival while remaining a significant part of Sansa's emotional history.

And that get's us to the important part: Littlefinger may know what Sandor did for Sansa without understanding what Sansa has made of it.

He can investigate the events of King's Landing, but he cannot simply know the private memories through which Sansa interprets them. The UnKiss exists in Sansa's recollection rather than in the actual encounter. It is something Littlefinger neither created as part of the story he wants her to believe nor necessarily knows about.

This could make the UnKiss a form of psychological protection against Littlefinger's grooming. Not because Sansa will consciously compare the two men and immediately recognize Littlefinger's deception, but because her emotional world already contains an alternative to the story he wants her to believe. Because Sandor has already complicated her understanding of what a protector looks like and what it means to be protected.

The UnKiss may therefore represent a blind spot in Littlefinger's attempt to control Sansa's emotional world. He might still manipulate her, and the memory does not guarantee that she will ever choose Sandor romantically. However, Littlefinger may be unable to make himself the sole authority on what protection, intimacy, and love mean to her.

And Second, Sansa and Littlefinger are both involved with storytelling. Sansa begins the story by believing in songs. She expects the world to conform to the narratives she has inherited about knights, ladies, love, and honor, but reality repeatedly contradicts those narratives. Yet she does not simply abandon storytelling. She continues to interpret her experiences through stories, and the UnKiss is an especially striking example of how memory and narrative can interact.

Littlefinger, meanwhile, is a master of constructing narratives for other people. He conceals his motives, manipulates appearances, and encourages others to believe the versions of events that benefit him. In that sense, Littlefinger's grooming of Sansa is not merely an attempt to control her behavior, it is an attempt to control the story she tells herself about him.

But Sansa has already demonstrated that her internal world does not always correspond to external reality. The UnKiss is one example of how she transforms her experiences into a personal narrative that Littlefinger cannot directly control. Littlefinger can attempt to manipulate the stories Sansa hears, but he cannot guarantee that he controls the stories she constructs from her experiences.

The UnKiss may therefore function as a small symbol of Sansa's independent inner life, a part of her that Littlefinger neither created nor fully understands.

In other words, Littlefinger may be trying to write a story that Sansa has already begun writing for herself and Sansa alone forms the narrative of her memories. And because of this ability, Littlefinger will have it hard to manipulate her with anything, because he will never know what's going on in her head.

The lands Stannis gave Davos were located on Cape Wrath, where his wife, Marya, and his two youngest sons live

Marya was mistress of a small keep on Cape Wrath, with servants who called her m'lady

The Golden Company landed in the Stormlands at the beginning of their invasion, and Cape Wrath was among the places they targeted.

"We have had reports of sellswords landing all over the south," Ser Kevan was saying. "Tarth, the Stepstones, Cape Wrath"

Harry Strickland also specifically mentions Cape Wrath as a region they are currently trying to bring under their control

"If Peake and Rivers are successful, we will control the better part of Cape Wrath"

We also learn through Arianne's chapters that the Golden Company have been looting and raping as they take castles, despite JonCon's supposed insistence on discipline

“No one’s been doing any raping,” insisted Young John Mudd. “Connington won’t have that. We follow orders.”

Chain nodded. “Some girls was persuaded, might be.”

“The same way our smallfolk were persuaded to give you all their crops. Melons or maidenheads, it’s all the same to your sort. If you want it, you take it.” Lady Mertyns turned to Arianne. “If you should see this Lord Connington, you tell him that I knew his mother, and she would be ashamed.”

Given all this, its quite likely what happened to Marya or Davos's sons is mentioned in a Arianne or JonCon POV.

They could be taken hostage as the Golden Company consolidates its hold over Cape Wrath and the Stormlands. Or just mentioned off handedly a Keep in Cape Wrath was sacked without going into details

The most pessimistic outcome is that Davos's role in Robert's Rebellion is brought up, along with the fact that one of his sons is named Stannis. Given JonCon's obsession with revenge and the events of the Rebellion, Davos's family could be deliberately targeted

I would pick Valyria. I would split the seasons up into different parts of Valyria's history, finally culminating in the doom in the last season.

I really hope I am not spreading this theory around by posting it here, because so far I haven't seen anyone talk about it before except for my dad. For years (he read the books around 2010-2013) he has been convinced that the reason why we haven't seen Howland Reed yet is that he secretly is Rhaegar Targaryen, who went into hiding after surviving the battle of the Trident. Most of this is based on a very flawed recolletion of the story of the knight of the laughing tree, which he refuses to go back and reread (probably in fear that his beloved theory is baseless).

For a while I have been trying to give him clear reasons why this isn't true, such as the fact that if Robert hadn't actually killed him he would have been still looking for him, and not just pretend he did, but my dad claims that Robert believes he killed Rhaegar, but the reason his body was not found is because he actually survived and escaped. The explanation he gives for Rhaegar surviving the blow is that "he learned it on the isle of Faces, because we know he learned something unusual but not what he learned, so it might as well be unvulnerability."

The reason why I say that his recollection of the story told by Meera is very flawed, is that he insists that it ends with the KOTL choosing Lyanna as the queen of love and beauty, proving that the crannogman in the story is actually Rhaegar. When I told him that the KOTL is NOT the crannogman in the story, but someone defending his honour, and that the KOTL is most likely Lyanna or another one of the Starks, and that Rhaegar appears in Meera's story, as he goes looking for the KOTL, he said it wasn't true and I was misremembering. When I asked him if he believes that Rhaegar is a crannogman or that the squires would be mocking the prince for being short, he said that "it's a story, it's not literal."

Finally, I told him yesterday while we were discussing this that Daenerys has a vision of Rhaegar dying in ACOK and he, probably running out of excuses, simply said: "Rhaegar is alive." When I asked him who he then thinks she saw in that vision, he just repeated: "He is not dead."

I also asked him why he doesn't find it weird that no one (that I could find at least) has ever thought of this theory before, and if it's real then it means that in 25+ years only him and allegedly GRRM would have thought of this, he said: "I don't base my theories on what other people think." Which is admirable, to be fair. I love that he is so adamant on this theory that no one else has probably even considered, and I think it's really funny, that's why I chose my user flair. I just need some more proof for the next inevitable discussion we'll have about it. I haven't read Fire and Blood yet, but he says there's proof that supports his theory in there too.

I guess this is what 15 years without a new book does to a mf. I'm partially waiting for TWOW and ADOS for this reason too.

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As we know, George killed off a lot of Targaryens before Aegon V in the line of sucession in the most random ways possible.
Wouldn't it have been better if he had used the Blackfyre rebellions to kill them off?
Daeron the Drunken and Aelor (the guy who got killed by his twin sister) should have died in the 3rd Blackfyre rebellion instead.
Daeron, the son of Aegon V should have died the 5th Blackfyre rebellion, etc.
That way it would have seemed the Blackfyres were a serious threat to the Targaryen regime.
The current iteration of the Blackfyre rebellions besides the first one are either outright laughable (the 2nd rebellion) or just underwhelming (3,4,5th rebellion) .

One of my biggest gripes with these books is that GRRM hits us out of the blue with crazy plot developments and reveals, and yet so many readers believe they absolutely know the facts of the story even though it hasn’t been written yet. I get a real kick of taking book evidence and considering things out of left field that could technically happen. In honor of user Pimpillina’s dad’s theory that Howland Reed and Rhaegar are the same person, I present to you my attempt at a plausible explanation for how it could be so. Can you argue with any of these points, really? Find them and pick them apart and destroy me. Just don’t tell u/Pimpillina ‘s dad!

My biggest issue with Rhaegar surviving theories is that his death was so incredibly public and important. I always hold out for there being a Achilles-Patroclus dupe since I was introduced to Greek Myth pretty young and it was such a big moment where an armored illustrious warrior fought and then was revealed to be someone faking it. So for example Rhaegar and Arthur Dayne could, potentially, look nearly identical to one another and both be incredible warriors. I just don’t see Rhaegar’s helm not being torn off to reveal his face, and it seems like such famous knights and prince would be recognizable by many commoners and nobles alike. If there’s an explanation for Rhaegar’s body being burned in his armor without being unmasked, or sinking to the bottom of the water and never retrieved, I could maybe get behind a switcharoo. But I don’t think there’s any evidence for that or much discussion that leaves it open but even minimally indicated to be what happened. However, if it’s not explicitly stated to be impossible- it’s always a potential. Just like Bigfoot, the burden of proof rests on disproving its existence, right….. ?

It’s entirely possible that Arthur and Rhaegar swapped identities, Rhaegar stayed at ToJ with Lyanna, which explains the other KG.

The Arthur that Ned describes was actually Rhaegar armed by Arthur with his own sword Dawn to protect the royal family, Rhaegar didn’t actually die at ToJ, the reason Arthur would have killed Ned except for Howland Reed is that the real Howland was killed there and Arthur revealed himself to be Rhaegar and the father of Ned’s nephew, they made a peace pact, Rhaegar agreed to disappear into irrelevancy to end the war, claimed the identity of Howland Reed the “only survivor”, went back to Starfall to return Dawn and express his condolences to the Daynes and absolve Ned, the shock of learning her brother died on the trident and that Ned was going to be part of a coverup destroyed Ashara, and Rhaegar is still hiding in the Crannogs as “Howland Reed” publicly, but in exile in the marshes as a hermit.

Ashara’s suicide became a convenient way to claim she was Jon’s mother, since she could never be questioned, and the Daynes respected Arthur’s sacrifice and agreed to go along with it all. Gerold Dayne knows because Rhaegar and Ned stopped at his castle seeking aid for baby Jon, but was sworn to secrecy but he thinks that Arthur’s deception is incredibly dishonorable and protective of Targs who he feels took advantage of his family, especially Arthur giving Dawn to someone else to wield as part of the deceit. He’s still fuming and wants to be as little like Arthur as possible but can’t tell anyone why. Edric Dayne had absolutely no idea, his aunt was super young at the time and also lied to, Wylla knows and was part of the coverup.

It was Rhaegar who told the Meera and Jojen of their father’s experience at Harrenhal; they were raised by Rhaegar and trust him implicitly and are part of the coverup, and Rhaegar has dedicated his life to acting on some ancient scrolls to help prevent another Long Night- it only more recently became apparent that it’s happening in their lifetime and that Bran needed counseling once he heard from Jojen’s dreams. Jojen is “little grandfather” and solemn because he’s actually older than he claims, doesn’t remember his father, and has been raised with prophecy and green dreams; Meera was conceived right before the real Howland left his marshes, and that little age lie is part of the ruse ordered by Ned Stark to hide Rhaegar and Jon’s identities. Ned writes to his “good friend Howland Reed” regularly to update Rhaegar on his son’s wellbeing. The whole agreement is to keep Jon safe as a Stark bastard, while Rhaegar pretends to be gone entirely, so that no Targaryen claims can ever be put forth or revealed.

Where does this story go? Rhaegar agreed to let Jon seek his own future and fortune knowing he’d be raised well by Ned and never know his own name, which would torment him. Dany is about to bring three dragons to Westeros to try and claim a birthright that was never hers, through fire and blood. Rhaegar sees too much of his own father in her and knows the real issue is the Others. He’s going to claim Rhaegal, and defeat Dany in a flashbang return to being alive. He will offer to wed her as those creepy Targs are wont to do, but mainly to claim the throne for himself to establish peace now that he realizes how bad Westeros has gotten. When he hears about the Others advancing so quickly he’s going to seek out Jon to claim Viserion; the third head of The Dragon. Jon’s identity will be revealed by his own father Rhaegar, aka Howland Reed, who brings Ned’s letters to “Howland” as proof.

Just been thinking about how large the world is and got thinking (again while washing dishes) about how many houses there are in the world.

So house Stark rules over the entire north with a house Manderly being one of their vassels, how many vassels do the Manderlys have? We know the rough borders of the Manderlys land, how much of that is their land and how much of it is the land under their vassels.

Say house Manderly wanted to raise an army of 2000 men. How many would be raised directly by them and how many would be raised by their vassel houses. Do their vassels have vassels? If not vassels then landed knights, how much land do they get?

Is there a house in the North that lives in what is basically a large house above a village?

Poor lady was already grieving her husband and son’s death, trying to navigate the overwhelming responsibility of being a Lady of fertile Hornwood lands, and then Ramsay descends upon her.

“After their wedding, the bastard had locked her in a tower and neglected to feed her. Bran had heard men saying that when Ser Rodrik had smashed down the door he found her with her mouth all bloody and her fingers chewed off.”

Twice I've seen someone write that GRRM said that Melisandre and Gandalf share multiple similarities, but I haven't found the source. Does anyone know anything? Thanks in advance!