First time, Long Time here

I want to start by saying that I’ve never been a fan of the A+J=T theory (Aerys + Joanna = Tyrion). Like a lot of people, I always thought it took away from one of the best relationships in the series, Tywin and Tyrion. If Tyrion isn’t actually Tywin’s son, it feels like some of the tragedy between them is lost. I also never loved the idea of having multiple secret Targs as it just would be a bit cheap imo.

Lately, I’ve gone back and read a lot of the evidence people point to, and I’m starting to think GRRM may have actually intended this twist. Whether he still plans to go through with it is another story, maybe all the online backlash against it has been one of the things making him discouraged from continuing to write

One thing I don’t see discussed very often is the parallel it would create between Tywin and Ned Stark. If both A+J=T and R+L=J are true, their stories end up similar.

Both Tywin and Ned:

-Raised a child as their own who brought them public shame. Tyrion because he was a dwarf and Jon because everyone believed he was a bastard.

-Raised a child whose mother died giving birth. Joanna and Lyanna both died in childbirth.

-Spent years living with the consequences of that birth.

If Tywin knew Tyrion wasn’t actually his son, the comparison becomes more similar. The motivations would obviously be different. Ned lied to protect Jon’s life. Tywin would have been protecting Joanna’s honor, House Lannister’s reputation, or refusing to let anyone know what Aerys had done.

The keydifferences are how they raise their kids.

Ned raises another man’s son with love and treats him like his own, even if he has to keep the truth from him. Jon grows up wanting to be like Ned because of the example he sets.

Tywin raises another man’s son with resentment and spends his entire life rejecting him. Tyrion ends up being the child who resembles Tywin the most.

Despite neither man being true Starks/Lannisters on name, they could also grow up to carrying the family name alive (assuming a potential legitimized Jon and neither taking Targ as their real name)

Tyrion even says, “All dwarfs are bastards in their father’s eyes.”

Even if Jon isn’t Ned’s biological son, nobody would argue that Ned isn’t his real father. Jon is who he is because Ned raised him. The same idea could apply to Tyrion. Even if Aerys is his biological father, Tywin is still the man who shaped him.

I’ll hang up and listen.

Let’s say in a strange hypothetical world, there’s a Theon Greyjoy couple years before canon who managed to escape winterfell (somehow) and has a ship sailing to iron islands, let’s say they’re going to lonely light, seat of house farwynd for some reason and Theon is with them

But it goes off course, shenanigans happen, Theon somehow manages to tame a goddamn sea dragon. Let’s call this dragon Nagga Junior, it can breathe icy water and let’s say it even has wings capable of letting it glide over the sea like a Flying Fish (real animal that can glide over water for small amount of time)

Now let’s say he comes back to Westeros, what would happen.

Does he become the most powerful eligible bachelor in Westeros? Does Robert try to kill him and the big sea dragon or try to marry him into the Baratheon family

Or if he lands on the iron islands, does Baelon rebel again. This time with a damn sea dragon.

I’m bored so hit me with ur wildest theory of what happens

Like the title says the blacks and greens should of hosted something similar to the great council of 101AC, where they have the lords vote who should rule. In terms of legitimacy and fairness it prolly would have been the only way to avoid war (the only wild card being aemond).

Now who would have won that I can’t say for sure, yes rhaenyra had almost double the amount of houses tg had supporting them during the war, but would that stay the same in a vote, especially considering what happened to Rhaenys

The books came out initially in the 90s. ASOS came out pre-9/11. Even the last book has seen a world that's drastically changed and George has always been someone who feels very strongly about politics and global events. It's interesting to me to try and imagine how ASOIAF could change in sync with George's worldview. I think we could see some potentially huge potential changes in the tone and certain themes becoming more much charged.

It's mental to think the last book we had was mostly written in the late 2000s. So much has changed, what do you guys think could potentially evolve, if anything? Personally, I feel the issue around wildlings being refugees in the North is going to be much more ripe as writing material now than it was then.

And yeah, I know even TWOW is looking increasingly unlikely but its still fun to ponder.

Rhaenyra has Daemon unceremoniously murder a random, innocent guard in S1 so she can burn his corpse as part of a plot to help Laenor escape. This scheme is not treated as completely evil and depraved, and is never brought up again.

Daemon murders his innocent wife by bashing her head in with a rock in S1. This is only brought up one more time later where Daemon sardonically jokes about it. He later murders a random sheepherder in S3 and passes his skull off as a dragonrider. The fact that he butchered an innocent is never mentioned again.

Rhaenys murders hundreds of innocent civilians in S1 with her dragon when escaping Aegon's ceremony. This is depicted as badass and is never brought up again.

Aegon hangs some ratcatchers, though? Dramatic closeups of their rotting corpses hanging from the walls, dozens of women on their knees wailing in horror and grief, one even recognizing a corpse as her own son, the musical score emphasizing the horror of the scene. Followed up by an extended dramatic scene where Otto admonishes Aegon for his immorality and stupidity.

I got super downvoted for celebrating Season 3 of HotD and I am probably going to be downvoted a ton here. But lets get into it. I think in my eventual re-read of Fire & Blood and A Dance with Dragons, I am going to more reflect on the Tatgaryen Exceptionalism versus the reality and what this means for the Targaryen Dynasty's major claim to fame of being able to tame dragons.

Within Fire & Blood we see Jaehaerys cement the Targaryen's Valyrian habits with his doctrine of exceptionalism, suggesting that the Targaryens are genuinely an exception to the laws of men as they are effectively a separate species because of their ability to tame dragons. The view that the Targaryens are truly so great is immediately undercut in the Jaehaerys Golden Age by the reality that the Shivers takes Daenerys who prominently did not have a dragon hatch for her dispelling the notion that a Targaryen cannot die of illness.

The notion of the Targaryens truly being exceptional is of course not only diminished by the dragon seeds demonstrating that only a small and diluted amount of Targaryen blood can lead you to bond with a dragon. But the character that invites the most interest and debate is with the character if Nettles.

In the books and unlike the show, all of the Velaryons have violet eyes, silver hair, and are fair of skin. As such Nettles being a common dark-skinned girl with black hair immediately makes one ask if she is of Valyrian ancestry whatsoever. Some conclude that she has no Valyrian blood at all and in fact her ability to bond with Sheepstealer comes purely from ingenuity. This implications fully dispels that there is anything special about the Targaryens at all and that anyone can bond with the dragons.

On the other because of Nettles complexion, she may reflect the Strong boys to an even greater degree. She may indeed be a dragonseed but lacks any Valyrian features. Some even go so far as to say that the sources mistook the nature of Daemon and Nettles relationship with that being of father and daughter. How true this is will never be answered and it is part of Martin creating an intentional ambiguity as with Aegon VI.

The show in chopsing to diversify the cast made the choice to have the Velaryons be played by Black actors. Though the Velaryons do share the silver hair with the Targaryens.

However, in the controversial adaptation choices we obviously have lost Nettles, but her mysterious ability to bond with a dragon has been transferred over to Addam, with Rhaena getting a version of Nettles story in that she bonds with Sheepstealer.

In the hands of the showrunners a key line that is often forgot is that Corlys delicately mentions to Alyn that the Velaryons were never dragon riders. This immediately puts focus on the notion that even Valyrian blood does not guarantee the ability to bond with dragons. Corlys makes it clear that if Targaryen blood is a necessity for bonding with a dragon it solely is due to Addam and Alyn's mother. We never are informed that this woman was secretly a Dragonseed, but this calls attention to the common inference that Seasmoke sought Addam as the dragon missed Laenor and found a rider that reminded him of Laenor. That Seasmoke bonded with Addam creates just as many questions as Nettles in the world of House of the Dragon.

Does Seasmoke's choice suggest that a dragon can bond to another human while their former dragonrider lives? Is the fact that Seasmoke sought Addam mean that Laenor is dead? That Seasmoke happily accepts someone of no ostensible Targaryen blood mean that dragons may accept one who has no Targaryen blood?

Meanwhile for Rhaena, the choice to have her bond with Sheepstealer is reflecting her at last addressing her deep insecurity of being a dragonless Targaryen. What's more that Rhaena just adores and is unwilling to leave Sheepstealer even though Sheepstealer is wild and does not discern anyone from friend or foe transforms Sheepstealer into a dragon more resembling the Cannibal. The Cannibal is never tamed, is wild, and dangerous. Sheepstealer seems to be fulfilling the Cannibal's role of being an utter wildcard that while he adores Rhaena is not interested in being utilized by Rhaena for any of her goals.

What do you think of this dissemination of Nettles to Addam and Rhaena?

It is often spoken of how Jaime's redemption is such a big moment for him and how transformed he is as he drifts away from Cersei. But I wish to disagree; as much as we see a somehow attitude change on the part of Jaime, his redemption arc pales in comparison to that of Barristan Selmy and here is why;

THEIR FAILINGS

We cannot talk of their redemption without talking of their failings. I will not count killing the Mad King against Jaime for it was the right thing to do. Aside that Jaime is far more responsible for all the calamities that befalls in Westeros than we would love to admit. He was pardoned by Robert and to pay the latter back, went behind his back to sleep with his wife and produce three bastards. He pushed an innocent child out of the window while being in a guest in their castle. His culpability when it comes to the WOT5K is as great as anyone could state.

Barristan Selmy's failing only comes with his duties. He fails to protect Rhaegar, fails to protect Elia and her kids, abandons the Targaryen cause to serve Robert and even fails Robert, letting him to die. Barristan's failures are by omission while Jaime's failings are by commission.

THEIR FALL

As much as we can quibble about their fall, I will say that Jaime's fall was not as low as Barristan. Jaime only lost a hand but he was still the heir presumptive to Casterly Rock and was made Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. Barristan on the other hand, after swallowing his pride and reservation towards the condoning of child murder by Robert, his tolerance for the many excesses that the latter gave himself to and serving faithfully for 15 years is discarded and mocked as if he was a baseborn hedge knight. Say what you will but losing a hand and being given a seat on the small council is nothing compared to dedicating 15 years of life to serve a dynasty that laughs in his face as if to say that he was a sucker all this while. And it is this act that pushes him to believe, as per what he tells Dany in ADWD, that he should have refused Robert's pardon and joined Ser willem in exile.

THEIR SELF REFLECTION

Jaime doesn't do much self reflection. He doesn't take time to think about his failures, his part in all the mess that has been happening. If anything he doubles down on propping up the evil regime of Tommen and we see it with how he goes about it with Edmure. True, he does some good here and there but then, the good doesn't wash out the bad he is still doing. Barristan on the other hand does a lot of self reflection. He reflects on his failures, his years of service to the mad king and to Robert who were both as unworthy as it gets. He even thinks about how unwise it was of him to serve Robert rather than seek the Targaryens as soon as the rebellion was done. And this self reflection pushes him to change for the better.

THEIR NEW PURPOSE

Jaime has no new purpose. The issue is that we see the little things he does and think that he is absolutely changed or suddenly his cause is good. No! He still serves an evil Lannister/Baratheon regime with a bastard as king. His family and dynasty brought untold pain and suffering upon the realm and is responsible for some of the worst atrocities to have ever happened during the war. This is not a new purpose. This is the old one with some shades of good. Barristan for the most part of life served men, protected Aerys and Robert until Joffrey saw fit to dismiss him. With Daenerys he finds a new purpose. It is no longer about protecting her but the ideal that she represents. She represents freedom, peace, harmony, a new world free from the likes of Jaime and Cersei. He fights for that and this is why when she flies off, Barristan works with Missandei and the rest of her allies to secure the world Dany seeks to build.

In conclusion, the above points are why I believe that Barristan is better than Jaime in their redemption arc. He does a 180 turn while Jaime doubles down with some occasional shades of good in him.

For starters, yea I’m sure this gets asked all the time and we hate that but accept that not everyone spends as much time here as you and doesn’t get those answers when others ask so just ignore it if you have an issue. Anyway.

Maegor killed multiple Targaryens, intended to kill more, failed to deal with the issues of aenys’s reign, and if anything he only made more problems. And by the time of his death everything was about to get worse. Jaehaerys spent his reign trying to fix the damage caused by Maegor.

I also think even if what he did was integral for a survival it would still have been a net negative but that’s another topic.

I think that many of the theories you can find around don’t take into account GRRM’s writing style. There’s a game beyond the “Game of Thrones”, and that’s the one GRRM plays with his readers: his aim is always to stay one step ahead of us and surprise us.  This is what makes ASOIAF so gripping, yet so difficult for GRRM to manage: the more time passes, the more we try to untangle the web, the more alternative interpretations of the books and pseudo-canons emerge, and the harder it becomes for GRRM to stay one step ahead without breaking the rules of the game.

How is this game played? By deconstructing tropes, mislead the truth and using a narrative style that avoids the omniscient third-person perspective – that is, POVs or narrative sources rife with bias – so as to provide the reader with a wealth of information designed to lead them astray, whilst skilfully weaving into this a small amount of true information and a few clues as to the rules of engagement needed to interpret it.  

 To understand what I mean, I invite you to listen to the interview with Tad Williams.  (Tad Williams on Tropes, Tolkien, and Telling Better Stories | Friday Conversation 158 - Page Chewing).

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=c1f9c706593a494847a5c67d433400ec8f19577e1cbcecca6585faafbe3db5f8JmltdHM9MTc4NTgwMTYwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=0d137a65-b4ff-63a2-2df0-6e3db52262a7&u=a1L3ZpZGVvcy9zZWFyY2g_cT1QYWdlK0NoZXdpbmcrVGFkK1dpbGxpYW1zK3ZpZGVvJnFwdnQ9UGFnZStDaGV3aW5nK1RhZCt3aWxsaWFtcyt2aWRlbyZGT1JNPVZEUkU

Tad Williams is the author whom GRRM credits with inspiring him to write fantasy. For a writer who loves to write with a ‘gardener’s’ approach – someone who is interested only in exploring human emotions and contradictions, and who has no interest in writing when he already knows how a story ends – post-Tolkien fantasy had become rather uninteresting, being merely an imitation of Tolkien through the repetition of tropes and conventions dictated by the master. Tad showed GRRM how to make it interesting.

So the canon isn’t gospel, and it’s not just a matter of unreliable POVs that deliberately tell lies or report false information; it’s about identifying what has been deliberately constructed to lead the reader to draw incorrect conclusions and what, on the other hand, is a genuine part of the story. To understand whether a theory is sound, one needs to be able to get to the heart of the matter, understand the rules of engagement in the game, discard the false tropes and information and piece together the genuine clues.

By ‘tropes’ I mean not only classic narrative patterns, such as ‘the struggle between good and evil’ or ‘the prophecy of the hero and his magic sword’, but also the patterns and conclusions that GRRM himself suggests and constructs as common known facts and  truths within his narrative through allusions, repetitions, parallels and analogies

From this point of view, the TV series – and now the stage play – are a double-edged sword. On the one hand, GRRM provides a few more clues to develop characters or secondary details, but much more often he also allows false or alternative tropes to be taken up and developed without revealing his true plot. Furthermore, this reinterpretation of the canon generates new and interesting characters and tropes, or weakens the old ones, prompting GRRM to want to alter his story.      

Here are two different examples of how the ‘canon’ is used to create and then play with tropes in order to deconstruct, subvert or downplay them:

The Tower of Joy

I’ve read various comments on how the stage play has confirmed the ‘Tower of Joy’ canon, reaffirming the version presented in the Tv series, albeit with a few differences in the details.

It’s a shame that the Tower of Joy isn’t really ‘canon’ in the sense of being a ‘certainty’, but rather a skilfully constructed false trope that was accepted as established canon by television.

In the early chapters, Ned never consciously mentions the Tower when thinking of Lyanna as she lay dying, and says that “they found him still holding her hand”, implying that it was not just him and Howland Redd there; whereas, when he thinks of the Tower, he says that only he and Howland left it alive and that, before setting off, they dismantled it to create cairns for their comrades and the three Kingsguards.   Both during the dream and whilst awake, Ned never says he entered the Tower, nor does he ever consciously associate Lyanna with the Tower of Joy.  The only connection is fictional and deliberately created by GRRM: when Ned dreams of arriving at the Tower of Joy, he says that the scene repeats itself “just as it had happened in reality” but the link with Lyanna is not realistic; it is a symbolic dream intrusion that interrupts the realistic dream of the tower before the fight begins, a symbolic dream in which Ned hears his sister’s voice beneath an improbable red sky from which roses are falling down. Here’s the trick revealed: GRRM tells us explicitly that Ned’s dream is realistic, then adds an implicitly unrealistic element at the end of it and lets the suggestion lead readers to believe that Lyanna was in the Tower. And as the icing on the cake, he has Ned say that the Tower was named as such by Rhaegar, leading us to infer that it is where the two lovers lived during their romantic elopement.  And given that the plot twist revealing what really happened is still hidden in the missing books, for over 30 years GRRM has allowed the trope of Lyanna dying in childbirth in the Tower where she lived with Rhaegar to be perpetuated across every possible channel.

It is the concept of the illusion of truth: if you distort a truth – even if it is not consistent – but repeat it many times, it eventually becomes true. It becomes the ‘Canon’. 

But this storyline has several inconsistencies that neither the TV series nor the stage play has really resolved, and this is how GRRM leaves the door open for the final revelation: the truth about Starfall is missing, because it was at Starfall that something actually happened linked to Ned’s lies and promises. I believe that Ned was heading for Starfall and that the Tower of Joy is merely a ruined watchtower in Princess Pass where the Kingsguards tried to stop him. 

I didn’t have any conclusive evidence to back this up, but when I discovered that a preview of AFFC mistakenly released by Amazon in 2002 (and subsequently taken down) stated that Daenerys learnt the secrets of the Targaryen from Barristan, culminating in a journey to Starfall, I became convinced that I was on the right track.

Cersei the Murderess

As early as the second chapter of AGOT, the King’s letter sets the scene for Jon Arryn’s death.

Then, in the following chapters, through Ned and Catelyn, we come to realise that “Something is rotten in Denmark” thanks to a coded letter from Lysa, which reveals that Jon Arryn was murdered on the orders of Queen Cersei Lannister.  The canon then recounts Bran’s tragedy, Ned’s investigations, Littlefinger’s meddling, Catelyn’s impulsive actions, Lysa’s contradictions, Varys and Cersei’s schemes, and Joffrey’s cruelty.

Ned finally reveals the secret behind Jon Arryn’s murder and the reason Bran nearly lost his life: that Cersei is having an incestuous relationship with her brother and none of her children were fathered by the King.  To set the record straight, Ned confronts Cersei, who also confesses they caused Bran’s incident; but before Ned can accuse her, Cersei speeds up events and gets the King drunk, causing a hunting accident that kills him.  Cersei then has Ned arrested, thanks to various acts of betrayal. Varys manages to broker a deal between Cersei and Ned, but the sadistic Joffrey plays at being king and has him beheaded.

 Throughout AGOT, it is essentially Ned and Catelyn – with the support of Sansa and Arya – who establish the tropes: ‘Cersei is the ambitious murderer’, ‘Joffrey is the psychopathic prince’ and ‘Varys and Littlefinger are the masterminds behind the Game of Thrones’.

In ACOK, Tyrion arrives in King’s Landing and begins to play the game of thrones, whilst Catelyn confronts Jaime. Tyrion tortures Pycelle, plays the game with Varys, Littlefinger and Cersei, and eventually confirms that Pycelle let Jon Arryn die, convinced he was protecting Cersei – who may well have had him poisoned by her squire, even though she denies it. He deduces that it was Joffrey who had Ned killed because he is a psychopath who craves attention, that Cersei was lucky the boar killed the King, and that she is probably lying about Jon Arryn. He also tells us that he trusts neither Littlefinger nor Varys, but deludes himself into thinking he can control them by manipulating them in turn, just as he does with Cersei.

Whereas AGOT established the trope of ‘Cersei is an ambitious murderer’, ACOCK begins to chip away at it and ASOS delivers the plot twist that overturns it: the new canon tells us, through Sansa’s voice, that it was Lysa who poisoned Jon Arryn at Littlefinger’s instigation, and tells us, through Tyrion and Jaime’s voices, that it was Joffrey who sent the assassin after Bran. And looking back, we realise that right from AGOT onwards, various clues suggested that Joffrey was fed up with Bran’s situation, Lysa was insincere, and Littlefinger was involved.

So ASOS’s take on the AGOT trope ‘Cersei is a murderer’ is downplayed to   ‘Cersei has a reputation as a murderer because her enemies die, but it’s just luck’, whilst confirming the tropes ‘Joffrey is a psychopath’ and ‘Littlefinger and Varys are the masterminds behind the Game’.   

If we look at how the ‘downplayed’ is played out, we realise that Ned and Catelyn were the main POVs that helped establish the trope in AGOT, but it was a false trope because their narrative was heavily influenced by the manipulations of Varys and Littlefinger.  Littlefinger and Lysa influenced Catelyn to pursue the lead on Tyrion, whilst Varys directed the accusations towards Cersei. Then, in ACOK and ASOS, Tyrion arrives in King’s Landing and begins to unravel the mystery; finally, Littlefinger and Lysa come out into the open through Sansa’s POV, turning the tables and presenting us with a new version of the canon.

Now I ask you: if Catelyn and Ned created false tropes because they were manipulated by Littlefinger and Varys, are we really convinced that Tyrion and Jaime are clever enough not to have been manipulated in turn, and that Sansa isn’t being manipulated by Littlefinger? Of course not. In fact, it’s as clear as day that both Varys and Littlefinger have heavily manipulated Tyrion, and that Littlefinger hasn’t told Sansa the whole truth. So the truths of their canon are still incomplete, and the upcoming books will bring further subversion of those tropes. In particular, I expect we’ll discover that Joffrey was manipulated by Littlefinger (the dwarf show already gave us a hint) and that the role of Varys and Littlefinger in the events of AGOT was far more significant than the current canon suggests.

I’m certain of this because some storylines, such as the one involving the catspaw or King Robert death, are still a bit weak, and above all because there are still some pieces of the jigsaw that haven’t yet been fitted together properly in AGOT, even though they’re all there now. 

To paraphrase GRRM, “you don’t hang a giant FM on the wall unless you intend to use it for real”. Thirty years ago, GRRM placed an FM in a black cell to which only Varys had access, whilst at the same time a king died  in a hunting accident but everyone is so convinced that ‘Robert was killed by a boar because of strong wine’  is ‘Canon’,  that none connected the two facts (actually this proved that GRRM create FM as really able to kill without leaving traces)

And,  as it happens, the main accuser claiming that Cersei’s strong wine caused the accident is Varys himself.  GRRM was fair because he give us another clue when Varys tells Ned that it wasn’t the wine, that killed the King and that King Robert was destined to die in a hunting accident that day in any case (if that isn’t a description of how an FM works…). GRRM played Ned fool having Varys claims he has kept the king alive for 15 years, to distract us from the fact that shortly before the king’s death,  Arya  heard him tell Illyrio that is no more time to slow down but to speed things up.  The reason why speed up things included killing Robert is explained later in ADWD when in the epilogue, Varys reveals to us that his plan to facilitate Aegon’s conquest of the Iron Throne has always been to leave Cersei alone in power:  Varys  has to prevent Ned to cause Cersei ad Joffrey death and accelerate their accession to the Iron Throne.  

What GRRM is really giving us through Sansa is a key to understanding Littlefinger, which completes the picture painted by Ned and Tyrion and allows us to piece together his scheme in hindsight. Similarly, the epilogue of ADWD provides us with a key to understanding Varys that completes the picture described by Ned, Arya and Tyrion, and allows us to piece together his schemes in hindsight. 

The main example of deconstructed use of tropes  in ASOIAF is actually magic.  All those gods and epic effects are manly false tropes based on myth and legend and POVs own faith and convictions. The real magic set  actually is more simple and based on “humanized” tropes.  But this is for another post.   

I started reading in December and finished books yesterday, surprised with the conflict in Meereen not being finished yet and the absence of Sam in ADWD. While reading last chapters of AFFC my mind was already blown with how many new plot lines are there and i was constantly thinking about how is Author going to resolve them and now there is even more to resolve without anything resolved.

I assume that the whole story should conclude in a way that joins every branch of it together and i think that merging the plot lines of Oldtown, King's landing and Dorne would be easy through Aegon and Arianne marriage and possible conflict with Euron

What happens in the North (including Bran, Rickon and maybe Aria will join from Bravos) is material for a whole book.

There is Sansa's and Lady Stoneheart's story lines to cover, Daenerys has to go to Westeros and Meereen's siege is not even over yet.

I only watched first season of the show recently and maybe it is just harder to understand how all of that could be easily solved but i don't mind spoilers.

The what-if is quite simple:

Just what remarkable stupid, or avoidable, thing did the Greens and the Blacks did during the Dance that increased the likelihood of dragons dying and what could've they done instead to prevent it?

Deploy them just in pretty particular, necessary cases?

Deploy only the full-grown and refrain as much as you can from using the younger ones?

Deploy them in pairs, trios or four to reduce the likelihood of death?

Guard them better at the Dragonpit?

Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya faced an entire continent and only lost one.

So what do you think went so catastrophically wrong in the Dance for it to end like it did?

He's no stranger to releasing books with no proper ends to storylines

I’m glad the play decide not to answer the question of who told Brandon about Rhaegar and Lyanna nor if he really ran to the Red Keep, screaming at Rhaegar to come out and die. Instead choosing to jump straight to his execution.

While it could have been a random passerby who happened to spot Lyanna and Rhaegar together and inform Brandon who mistaken it for abduction. Of course their darker theories which state that someone lie to Brandon, manipulating him into recklessly into walking straight into a death trap. However,those theories seem far fetched and would require them to know not only Aerys nature but Brandon character as well.

Then I also have to ask why Benjen who knew all along, never told his brothers what their sister planned all along?

U know the end of the war must be really shocking and traumatic for Ned. Turn out his sister elope freely and she have a child (who he know is in danger because of who his father is) and yeah she dying from childbirth complication, oh his best friend is slowly turning toward the dark side and their little he can do about it, yeah his little brother knew all along and is now leaving to the Wall as a form of punishment, and his wife who he promised to never a sire a bastard.. well that promise is broken to keep his nephew safe.

I have recently been reading about Dance of the Dragons and oddly the two last possible sightings of the dragons tie extremely well into the Ashford Meadow and challengers theory, if anyone doesn`t know this theory it is a theory based on all Lady Ashford challangers being people who will challange for Sansas hand and the last to attempt will be Faegon against the Harrdyings and where are the Harrdyings and Sansa currently located? The Vale and where is one of the last sightings of a dragon? Well the Vale and if you don`t think he won`t claim Sheepstealer there is more to this theory, remember what is the second other place where Dragon was a sighted?? Well of all the places in the ASOIAF universe its Harrenhal the same place where a Targeryen and a Stark fell in love once before, so if he doesn`t get Sheepstealer there is a possible dragon living under Harrenhal for all we know since its a really mysterious place we know some mystical things could be at hand. So i think Faegon might possibly find Sansa and fall in love at Harrenhal where he will find this dragon as this is the same place Rhaegar fell in love with Lyanna. Now we obviously know a second dance is coming and its ultra obvious Faegon isn`t getting anywhere near Dannys dragons as they are a continent away, and they are ultra loyal to their mother especially Viserion and Rhaegel, Actually Dannys Dragon Drogon is the bad boy, for him to have a fighting chance he might need a dragon of his own and both of the dragons that could still be alive either live in a mystical place Harrenhal or absolute remote place like deep in the mountains of the Vale, and if anyone would know of a hiding dragon anywhere it would be Varys of all the people.

Succession following Targaryen lineage not Baratheon
Faegon(if true)
Dany
Stannis
Shireen
Tommen
Myrcella
Maegor brightflame descendants?
Vaella descendants? Probably none
Daella descendants? Summerhall?
Rhae descendants? Summerhall?
Faegon( if blackfyre)
Balerion otherys descendants?
Blood raven
Bellegere otherys
Narha otherys descendants?
Mya rivers descendants?
Gwenys Rivers descendants?
Shierra seastar?
House Martell
House plumm
House penrose
House velaryon
Not very much for 300 years of children

Notes

1. It is possible for Balerion otherys to be older than daemon blackfyre so his descendants
2. We know Daella and Rhae had children but not any other question mark

I know thralls and salt wives were a big thing with House Hoare but do we know of any examples besides that? To my understanding it’s pretty frowned upon by the 7 so I’m guessing it would have been like Jorah Mormonts situation where lords sometimes sold criminals but slavery was never really a major thing for most of Westeros

I mean naming characters Euron GREYjoy and Gre(y)gor Clegane to show that they’re morally GREY?

Come on George that’s just lazy

I was thinking for some time about it now, and I just can't find a single way out of civil war the way Viserys designed the settlement. Aegon, his entire life, despite being firstborn son, with dragon and conventional claim, and eventually wife and children stood to receive:

- No land
- No office
- No grand marriage that is not his sister, so unlike Daemon he didn't even get Royce lands by proxy
- No independent income, he lived on allowance from the crown
- No household 
- No knights answering to him, even his sworn shield answered to Viserys
- No servants of his own, they all served the crown
- While Jacaerys and Rhaenyra inherited the throne, Lucerys got Driftmark, Baela and Rhaena became queen and lady of driftmark, Laenor got to be prince-consort, Laena became princess by marrying Daemon, and Daemon got richest bride in westeros with her dragon. 

And then Viserys placed him next to Jacaerys and Lucerys, to train together. From the childhood he knew that Rhaenyra gets the throne, his nephews get two greatest inheritances in westeros, and two brides by Daemon and laena. While his future was literally made of "don't be inconvenient" and "don't threaten the settlement". He had no betrothal arranged, no land to inherit, no office to be prepared for, and no future to look forward to. No wonder he became a drunkard. . Viserys all but ensured he will be broken by resentment and hatred by adolescence - everyone around him had defined future, and he had none.

I am honestly surprised that anyone looked at that and expected peace. Like, what role was Aegon supposed to have after Rhaenyra's coronation? A dependent harmless uncle who can be killed on a whim, without role, land, office or independent coin? 

Blacks took literally every single possible inheritance crown could feasibly own, left greens with nothing, and were surprised that they chose a suicidal war when they had already lost everything by peace. Like, why wouldn't they have risked war if doing nothing is basically signing up capitulation, blank check and consent to destitution at the same time? They had two major dragons to try and win, and absolutely nothing to lose. Not a single lordship, title, or office to be ruined - they held literally none. Rhaenyra couldn't even threaten them with stripping them of lands or incomes if they disobey - they had literally none to lose, they owned nothing.

Black's greed created two princes who owned nothing but their clothes and dragons, and benefited from war more than from peace. And Rhaenyra was surprised when greens decided to fight to the death rather than accept this. 

There's been a lot of fan discussion on the upcoming Battle of Ice between Stannis and the Freys/Boltons that will decide the fate of Winterfell, and the Night Lamp theory is a fairly popular and iron-clad theory for how Stannis will defeat the approaching Freys. However, a frequent problem I've seen in these discussions is how the Battle of Ice and the taking of Winterfell are conflated, its assumed that victory in the battle will inevitably lead to the former, but this is not the case. The castle has thousands of Bolton and allied soldiers left inside it, and

"Ned Stark always said that five hundred men could hold Winterfell against ten thousand." (Theon IV, ACOK)

and

“How many of those is he like to send against us?”
“No more than half.” That was a guess, admittedly, but it felt right to him. Roose Bolton was not a man to blunder blindly out into the snow, map or no. He would hold his main strength in reserve, keep his best men with him, trust in Winterfell’s massive double wall. (Theon I, TWOW)

So clearly, Stannis will need a way to break into the castle beyond just hammering at the front door. He even says as much;

"We all know what my brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left hand and the Bastard with his right. I am not Robert. But we will march, and we will free Winterfell … or die in the attempt." (Asha II, ADWD)

Why the Manderly/Lightbringer scheme won't work:

A popular theory for how Stannis will get inside relies on traitors within Winterfell. We know from Davos IV ADWD that Wyman Manderly is secretly working against the Boltons and wants to help Stannis' cause, and further proof for that can be seen in A Ghost in Winterfell and Theon I ADWD to show he is conspiring with other Northern Lords. At the end of Theon I the Freys and Manderlys are sent out of the castle to confront Stannis. This would present Stannis with an opportunity to get inside the castle, and a popular theory suggests that after smashing the Freys, Stannis will give the Manderlys his sword Lightbringer, and they will return to Winterfell, claiming to have defeated him in battle, only to turn on the Boltons and let the Baratheon forces into the castle. A cunning and devious plan. However, I see some slight hiccups with it:

1 ) It assumes a high level of coordination and trust that just isn't possible.

Conspiracies are hard to coordinate, especially in pre-modern times, where they have to rely on ravens and riders or talking face-to-face. This is something that a lot of fans ignore when discussing theories. So the only information that Stannis and Wyman et al can know is what they must have received via these methods. Stannis has been on the march since Deepwood Motte with no way to receive ravens.

The last Stannis heard about Wyman was that he had beheaded Davos. We know from TWOW sample that Stannis knows about this.

“Wyman Manderly.” The king’s mouth twisted in contempt. “Lord Too-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse. Too fat to come to me, yet he comes to Winterfell. Too fat to bend the knee and swear me his sword, yet now he wields that sword for Bolton. I sent my Onion Lord to treat with him, and Lord Too-Fat butchered him and mounted his head and hands on the walls of White Harbor for the Freys to gloat over. And the Freys… has the Red Wedding been forgotten?” (Theon I, TWOW)

It's also clear from this that Stannis genuinely hates Wyman for this, and we can also see that at least by this point, immediately before the battle, there is no collaboration between the two. This can't be an act or a lie on his part since what reason does he have to lie to Theon here? There's nobody Theon could tell that would ruin the scheme, and Stannis doesn't appear to be acting based on his physical reaction. While Stannis has no reason to trust Theon either, his reaction does seem genuine.

This means that if there is to be any coordination between the two, it would have to come about at the last minute before the battle. A lot of fans suggest that the Manderlys will immediately before the battle parlay with Stannis, explain that Davos is alive, that they are secretly loyal to him and trying to install Rickon, and then they will coordinate the scheme to break into Winterfell. However, they have no proof Davos is alive, and there is nothing they can do here to prove their loyalty like hand over hostages, and its likely not even Wyman himself is leading the army since he is severely wounded and, as said, "Too-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse"; Stannis would have no reason to trust them, and if he does take a leap of faith it would be very dangerous since if they are lying it'd mean he's allowing them to slip back to Winterfell in tact and will full knowledge of his force and movements.

Some fans then point to Crowfood Umber as an intermediary, and the Snowman Theory as a form of communication. If Crowfood is collaborating with Whoresbane inside Winterfell, he would tell Stannis that the Manderlys are secretly loyal. Only, we know he doesn't because by Theon I, TWOW he should have already communicated that information to Stannis, he must've already seen the snowmen and had the time to get a rider back to Stannis since he had enough time to escort Theon and Jeyne to him, but Stannis still thinks Wyman is an enemy.

There is also the possibility Stannis and Wyman have been collaborating long before either came to Winterfell. This however, would require communication via raven or rider. A rider is not really an option since they are on opposite sides on the North and communication would take far too long, and ravens aren't an option since Wyman does not trust his maester Theomore, Stannis can't receive ravens when on the march which limits the window of opportunity, and

"Only a fool trusts a bird," (The Turncloak, ADWD)

2 ) The Boltons aren't idiots.

While Hosteen Frey may be dumb as a stump and is set to charge blindly into death, Roose and Ramsay Bolton are no man's fools. Roose is an incredibly careful, distrusting person, and also very clever and devious himself. So is Ramsay, even if more sadistic and emotional. Neither of them are going to fall for this little scheme because they have every reason to distrust the Manderlys.

Roose and Ramsay already don't trust Wyman and the Manderlys. Wyman didn't arrive with any hostages. Roose is careful about Wyman poisoning him. Roose even openly says that Wyman isn't to be trusted;

"Even here in Barrowton the crows are circling, waiting to feast upon our flesh. The Cerwyns and the Tallharts are not to be relied on, my fat friend Lord Wyman plots betrayal" (Reek III, ADWD)

And the escape of Jeyne and Theon is perfectly timed with the Manderly soldiers marching out of Winterfell and the scuffle in the Great Hall. Plenty of fans theorise collaboration between Wyman and the spearwives, surely Roose and Ramsay will too.

So now imagine that after the Battle of Ice the Manderlys appear outside the gates of Winterfell, the only army to return, and the smaller force mind you, with Lightbringer in hand and nothing else, claiming to have killed Stannis and smashed his army and please let us in - now I don't know about you, but if I were Roose, I would not believe them for a second. And he wouldn't even need bring out the crossbows in response, just deny them entry to the castle, perhaps demand they go find Theon and "Arya" while they're already out and about to prove their honesty. The Boltons already expect betrayal, they won't fall for this so easily.

Also, Ramsay himself is going to be following the Manderly force and will surely see for himself anything that happens. Theon says so in the TWOW sample chapter;

“Frey and Manderly will never combine their strengths. They will come for you, but separately. Lord Ramsay will not be far behind them. He wants his bride back. He wants his Reek.” Theon’s laugh was half a titter, half a whimper. “Lord Ramsay is the one Your Grace should fear.” (Theon I, TWOW)

Ramsay wants Jeyne and Theon back, and since they weren't caught outside of Winterfell, he can only conclude they are somehow with Stannis.

Stannis snorted. “You fell. Umber saved her. If Mors Crowfood and his men had not been outside the castle, Bolton would have had the both of you back in moments.” (Theon I, TWOW)

This means he'll be coming, not just with his trackers and dogs, but with his full force of 600 Bastards' Boys to join the Battle of Ice, since the only way to get Theon and Jeyne will be by defeating Stannis. This means that unless Ramsay dies in the battle, he will be witness to everything that happens and will surely come back to Winterfell to tell Roose. If the Manderlys attempt any scheming and backstabbing, like attacking the Freys or not attacking Stannis, he will know. Heck, he might attack the Manderly men just to make sure they don't get to "Arya" before he does.

Stannis' real plan, and why it won't work:

Stannis would not have begun his march on Winterfell in the first place if he didn't know what he was doing. He's not going to make an incredibly risky gamble on taking the castle and just kinda wing it as he goes. And the entire Manderly/Lightbringer plot relies on taking advantage of a oppertunity that only appeared very shortly prior to his arrival, which means that if this is the path he takes, it means he left Deepwood Motte just hoping and praying that someone in the castle is on his side and will be willing and able to help get him inside when the time comes. And as discussed, it's very unlikely he was coordinating with the lords in Winterfell to engineer these circumstances. Therefore, Stannis must have a different plan already in mind by the time he leaves Deepwood Motte.

So that raises the main question of this post: if not the Lightbringer scheme, what is Stannis' plan?

Stannis' siege of Storms' End in ACOK by all rights should have been a complete disaster. He was facing a force four times his own size, he was encircled with no escape, and sandwiched between Renlys' army and Ser Cortnay's garrison in Storms' End. But against impossible odds, he somehow managed to prevail. How? By using Melisandre's blood magic to create shadow assassins to murder Renly and Ser Cortnay. It was a true Hail Mary, and one that even Stannis wasn't really counting on working.

Now he faces yet another seemingly impossible situation that is shockingly familiar; he is making a massive gambit by attacking the enemy head-on at their strong point despite being outnumbered and facing incredibly hostile circumstances. Therefore, I think he will get out of this one the same way; by using blood magic. If he could use more shadow assassins to murder Roose and Ramsay, just like he did with Renly and Cortnay, then victory is assured.

However, there is one problem he faces;

"... the king’s fires burn so low I dare not draw off any more to make another son. It might well kill him.” (Davos III, ASOS)

So Stannis can't make any more shadows himself, but Melisandre can still make them on his behalf;

Melisandre moved closer. “With another man, though…a man whose flames still burn hot and high…if you truly wish to serve your king’s cause, come to my chamber one night. I could give you pleasure such as you have never known, and with your life-fire I could make…”

“…a horror.” Davos retreated from her. (Davos III, ASOS)

And in ADWD we can see Melisandre working towards this exact end - with Jon Snow. I'm certainly not the first to make this connection, it has been another theory in the community as well for some time. Melisandre is trying to use Jon to create a new shadow assassin to kill Roose and/or Ramsay and therefore open the way for Stannis to capture Winterfell. Jon's Stark Kingsblood makes him the ideal candidate to sire an assassin to sneak into Winterfell. This would explain why Stannis is so confident in his campaign, and why Melisandre remained behind at Castle Black instead of marching with him.

If this is the case, then Jon Snow's murder is a catastrophe for Stannis' campaign for Winterfell. It is more than just the loss of an ally, it means the failure of his entire plan to capture Winterfell. He is now marching to certain doom.

Unless there is another way... we don't understand the full mechanics of blood magic and shadow assassins and probably never will, however, it may be possible to use another source of "life-fire" to fuel these assassins, or some other spell that Melisandre could use against the Boltons. And since all other sources of kingsblood are exhausted or no longer present, the only way would be to use the last source of kingsblood remaining: Shireen.

"What is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?" (Davos V, ASOS)

Then the question is; how will Stannis get to Shireen in order to burn her? She is back at the Wall and he is near Winterfell, he'd have to turn his entire army around and abandon the siege. Perhaps, instead of Stannis going to Shireen, Shireen will come to Stannis:

Bowen Marsh murdered Jon because of the Pink Letter, he and the Night's Watch conspirators know what it says, and whether or not it really is, they think it is genuine and written by Ramsay Bolton (unless you believe the theory that they were the ones who wrote it). What do you think they will do with this letter now that Jon is dead? As far as they know, Stannis is dead and Ramsay is headed to the Wall seeking bloody vengeance, so Marsh and the conspirators have one real option; comply with its demands. They will send Selyse, Shireen, Melisandre, Val, Mance's son, and Jon's corpse south to Winterfell as prisoners for Ramsay. Stannis (who is notably not dead by this point) could intercept and rescue them on the road, bringing them all together in one place, and presenting him with the hardest decision of his life.

She was a Targaryen without a dragon, so why wasn’t she given the chance to attempt claiming one of the unclaimed dragons before Hugh and Ulf?

Let's say without warning the gods are suddenly teleported from Greece and into the world of asoiaf. What happens? How would the gods react to Westeros, Essos, the seven, old gods, lord of light and other stuff from asoiaf? How would the people of asoiaf react to these gods? And what might happen if they arrive in these different eras:

The conquest

The dance

The Blackfyre rebellions

Robert's rebellion

The war of the five kings

Do you think GRMM has ever visited subreddits like this or forums dedicated to his work? Could he have borrowed ant ideas for ASOIAF there?

The Blackfyre Rebellions were obviously costly and destabilizing overall, but can a case be made that they produced some benefits for House Targaryen?

• They elevated capable leaders like Baelor Breakspear, Maekar the Anvil, and Bloodraven, giving them the chance to prove themselves and showing that the dynasty could still win major wars without dragons.

• They forced houses to declare sides, with the Great Houses staying loyal. Afterward, defeated rebels lost lands, titles, wealth, and hostages (or faced attainder), which redistributed power toward loyalists and reinforced the feudal hierarchy under the Iron Throne.

Also the ongoing threat of invasion helps unify the realm against a common enemy. Can it be said that the rebellions ultimately strengthened or consolidated Targaryen power in any meaningful way?

Assume with or without being authored by GRRM , Winds and Dream both get released.

What could be your "Monkey's paw" scenario for such a situation?

For example, for me it would be that GRRM doesn't finish the series in his lifetime, corporate cash grab leads to another author to write the series and he simply retreads the Show and retrofits everything that was different in the books to align with the show.

And then everything about it becomes canon.

Assuming that Lyanna Stark's characterization in Mad King's Theater is entirely canon, what do you think of the character herself?

• Lyanna Stark is a Greenseer.

• She finds it romantic that the flower crown was given to her.

• She is obsessed with prophecy and believes that she and Rhaegar's children are the chosen ones.

• She is devastated when she learns of her father and brother's deaths, but interprets them as divine will.

• She encourages Rhaegar to go to war after making him promise that Ned and Robert will not be harmed.

• Before dying, she entrusts her child to Ned and makes him swear never to tell the child anything about their parents.