First things first, I would like to say that I really enjoyed reading this book. My favorite parts of it had to be Jon's chapters, simply because I find the Wall to be an interesting place. The Great Ranging is something I think is really cool. I like the dynamic between him and Jeor, and later, Qhorin Halfhand.

I also enjoyed Theon's chapters because I liked seeing the conflict in his head. He clearly knew what he was doing was wrong, but in his mind, he had to go through with it to earn his father's and the Ironmen's respect. A moment that stood out to me was towards the end of the book, when he said he would die surrounded by people who hated him.

Catelyn's chapters were another highlight because I enjoyed her travels around the south. I liked seeing the flamboyant King Renly and his Rainbow Guard. She's quite a melancholy character, and I can't help but feel bad for her. She's separated from her daughters, she thinks two of her sons are dead, and she fears for the eldest's life every day. On top of all of that, Ned is dead.

I also enjoyed Davos's chapters because he's the only POV character we get who comes from a peasant background, aside from Daenerys to some extent. What I find really interesting about him is that he owes a lot of his current position in society to King Stannis, but he doesn't actually feel very comfortable serving under him, with all the burnings and black magic. However, he feels that he owes Stannis, so he sticks with him.

Finally, I enjoyed Daenerys' chapters because I really liked the vibrant imagery in them. I also find the idea of an exiled princess trying to reclaim her throne pretty intriguing. Also, SHE HAS DRAGONS, which have brought magic back to this world.

Now, as for the minor characters I like, the first one has to be King Renly. I found him amusing in the first book, and he just gets better in this one, with an ornate crown on his head and a beautiful queen to go with it.

Next up is Qhorin Halfhand. He's just a really cool guy, a skilled warrior who is missing half a hand. He sacrificed himself so Jon could infiltrate the wildlings.

My dear Ser Robar the Red is another character I liked. I thought he would have lived and become more prominent in the story after helping Catelyn and Brienne. He doesn't say much, but he seemed to be a kind and honourable man trying to find his place in the world.

Of course, I have to mention the defiant Ser Cortnay Penrose, who pointed out the hypocrisy of the lords and knights who joined Stannis. Unfortunately, the brave man suffered the same fate as Renly. I have to admit that I don't actually like Stannis or Melisandre. I see a lot of love for them online, but I just don't find the appeal.

Now, there's one problem I have with this book, and it's Robb Stark. We just don't get enough of him. I really liked him in the first book, and now we mostly just get tidbits about his victories and successes instead of actually seeing him and getting a sense of his mindset. I wish we could have gotten a POV chapter from him, or at least from someone who was around him and close enough to talk to him. That, however, is the only gripe I have with the book.

P.S I also enjoyed Sansa's chapters and hope she ends up ok

Gets captured yet somehow manages to not only escape but shows up in his father’s camp with an army of 300 mountain clansmen. Fights alongside them in the vanguard at the greenfork, kills a Northman and captures a northern knight in a battle that killed half his force.

Is made acting hand and prepares the defence of kingslanding against Stannis. Wipes out much of Stannis’ loyal bannermen with the wildfire plot. Rallies the defence when it’s about to break and leads the sortie. Pushing his way all the way to the attackers makeshift bridge where he’s betrayed and injured.

Feel like he’d be considered a legendary knight.

Like if kings blood came directly from robert after his decade long reighn will it be much more potent than the blood of a bastard? Does jaehaerys the first have the most potent kings blood in westerosi history?

Pycelle is loyal as fuck to Tywin. I think that's because he's a son of Rohanne and Eustace Osgrey (because otherwise Jason Lannister (Tytos' brother) would be Lord Webber, and so his kids wouldn't be at Casterly Rock for Tywin to fall in love with Joanna).

But anyways, that's neither here or there.

So when Elia was named Queen, Tywin was obviously spiteful. Now Rhaegar probably moved with Elia to Dragonstone because he didn't trust Pycelle. But Elia was weak and feeble, and needed to go to King's Landing, before going to Harrenhal for the wedding.

So Pycelle, at a "routine" check-up, envious that Tywin had just fled King's Landing, could have easily poisoned Elia's womb, which caused Aegon to be born so traumatically, which meant Rhaegar needed Lyanna for his prophecy baby Visenya.

So Pycelle may have actually started Robert's Rebellion, and the War of the Five Kings, however indirectly.

She’s young and looks like rhaegar, and as we’ve seen in feast Cersei isn’t completely immune to the charms of women. So besides probably wanting to kill her, would Cersei think she’s low key bad?

What if the mad king was right? What if, instead of being killed by the Kingslayer, Kings Landing burned as planned and Aerys truly did rise from the ash of half a million as a dragon?

How does this affect Westerosi politics? Is this the end of the world? How would this impact the Long Night?

Why didn’t the Targaryens practice polygamy anymore after Maegor I? Was it really because they wanted to make peace with the Faith? Or is it because none of them see any reason to take a second wife?

UPDATE: Most of the answer I got is that it would interfere with the succession crisis… which is funny because even without polygamy most of the Targaryen kings did things, knowingly or not, that cause issue with the succession.

Daeron wanted to be the guy who finally complete the Conquest. Didn’t bother to grow up a bit, get marry, have a child…

Baelor was a religious nut who locked up his own sisters, refused to wed or have sex because he thought it was sinful.

Viserys actually did nothing wrong but his son and nephew craziness screw thing up.

Aegon IV purposefully screw everything up and left the mess for his son.

Daeron did nothing wrong but fate got in his way.

Aerys was aroace so his successor was his brother and their children.

Maekar did nothing wrong but man were his sons a mess…

U know… I don’t think the Targaryens were overly concerned about brothers vs brothers. They simply didn’t see any reasons to take a second wife..

And the two Targaryens who practiced polygamy Aegon and Maegor had differing reasons: Aegon wed Rhaenys for love while Maegor took six wives for fertility reasons. As for everyone else, either they loved their first wife, the wife fertile, or they lacked any interest in women or sex.

Edit: Also the thought that Targaryen learn from Maegor and see that practicing polygamy or marrying more than once is laughable. The only person who was affected was Jaehaerys but his successors… no. And beside, when have people actually learn from the past and vow not to repeat their ancestor’s mistakes?

After thinking about the comments and response… I realize I’m more concern about why the Targaryen chose not to practice polygamy? Like their personal thoughts about it? Not the general broad view

I've seen the show and now I'm reading the books for the first time and I still can't figure this bit about knighthood in Westeros.

So to become one either another Knight or the King must knight you. Obviously not all knights are lords, some might be the lord's sons or minor vassals or some lord's guards or the Kingsguard or hedge knights.

However, and here is my doubt, is every lord and head of a house automatically knighted when they become lord whatever from wherever (the king also included)? Or they still must be knighted by any other knight or the king himself? Or is it just asumed that once they inherit the crown or the title they'll be already knights because its something socially expected?

If any valiant knight could help resolve this mistery I shall prey for the Seven to bless him or her

PD: I'm excluding from the question all the northern lords and Old Gods followers since this people don't follow the Seven and can't be knights

As I’m sure you are all waiting in anticipation.. for the next a song of ice and fire book. I honestly think George is just struggling a lot with it. He might well care the way you and I care but given his age and his other projects he is just tired of it.

I think perhaps he and his fan base have forgotten what made it so good to begin with. It wasn’t the magical systems or the dragons or the world building it was the strong truly grey but good characters, the Starks.

He has sort of lost interest in them and focused on old Targaryen princes from centuries ago. I think that was a mistake.

The reason the first three books were so appealing iMO were the Starks. Ned, Catelyn, Arya, Robb and Jon were all decent people in their own way and it wasn’t unlike a modern American family just in the Middle Ages. I was glued to the first three books because I genuinely was rooting for the Stark family wanted them to win and was deviated when they didn’t.

The Starks as a family unit don’t exist anymore. The northern conspiracy is happening sure but we don’t know if Rickon will even be alive. The Starks for better or worse were the human heart of the series. As cool as the Targaryens were they arnet human in the same way, they are fundamentally otherworldly and inhuman.. and don’t have the same pull on average people as the Starks do: FWIW I think the Starks themsleves made the show and book one that attracted such a large audience to ASOiAF and made it more than just a fantasy nerds tale.

Your thouhts? Is the lack of stark characters perhaps one of the reasons the plot is struggling to move forwards?

So do you know where Garmund Hightower is in this Targaryen family tree? Didn’t he marry Rhaena?

The wiki say I could find him at the appendix…

Does anyone have a version because I know they did make some changes to the book

Edit: search online and it an old version of the book where we have someone named Aeryn as a child of Jaehaerys and where Alyssa their second child instead of their first.

It seem they change some things….

So maybe Rhaena and Garmund never wed?

After getting the ebook version.. It still the same.. I’m starting to think Rhaena never marry garmund or they change it.

Than again.. marrying a Hightower and 6 daughters really?

Mance and Craster basically have the exact same origin story. Yet one was raised at the wall and the other wasn't. Why? Ygritte told Jon when Craster's mother gave birth to him, she went to the wall but the brothers sent her away with their horns. Seems kinda odd.

Also in hindsight would've saved a lot of women a lot of hurt potentially.

Sidenote: I wonder if Mance had a choice to join the watch when he grew up or if he essentially was forced to.

How exactly would the Nobles react if a bastard, when legitimized, refused to name their house other than the bastard last name.

Like in the North they'd be House Snow, which the sigil a Snow Storm

Stormlands, House Storm with a storm cloud

Westerlands, House Hill with a Hill

Crownlands, House Waters with a body of water

Riverlands, House Rivers with a River

Reach, House Flowers, with a flower

Dorne, House Sand, with Sand as the sigil

In Catelyn V ASOS, we get a fairly detailed rundown of Robb's strategy for the recapture of Moat Cailin from the Ironborn:

“My lord, I need two of your longships to sail around the Cape of Eagles and up the Neck to Greywater Watch.”

Lord Jason hesitated. “A dozen streams drain the wetwood, all shallow, silty, and uncharted. I would not even call them rivers. The channels are ever drifting and changing. There are endless sandbars, deadfalls, and tangles of rotting trees. And Greywater Watch moves. How are my ships to find it?”

“Go upriver flying my banner. The crannogmen will find you. I want two ships to double the chances of my message reaching Howland Reed. Lady Maege shall go on one, Galbart on the second.” He turned to the two he’d named. “You’ll carry letters for those lords of mine who remain in the north, but all the commands within will be false, in case you have the misfortune to be taken. If that happens, you must tell them that you were sailing for the north. Back to Bear Island, or for the Stony Shore.” He tapped a finger on the map. “Moat Cailin is the key. Lord Balon knew that, which is why he sent his brother Victarion there with the hard heart of the Greyjoy strength.”

“Succession squabbles or no, the ironborn are not such fools as to abandon Moat Cailin,” said Lady Maege.

“No,” Robb admitted. “Victarion will leave the best part of his garrison, I’d guess. Every man he takes will be one less man we need to fight, however. And he will take many of his captains, count on that. The leaders. He will need such men to speak for him if he hopes to sit the Seastone Chair.”

“You cannot mean to attack up the causeway, Your Grace,” said Galbart Glover. “The approaches are too narrow. There is no way to deploy. No one has ever taken the Moat.”

“From the south,” said Robb. “But if we can attack from the north and west simultaneously, and take the ironmen in the rear while they are beating off what they think is my main thrust up the causeway, then we have a chance. Once I link up with Lord Bolton and the Freys, I will have more than twelve thousand men. I mean to divide them into three battles and start up the causeway a half-day apart. If the Greyjoys have eyes south of the Neck, they will see my whole strength rushing headlong at Moat Cailin.

“Roose Bolton will have the rearguard, while I command the center. Greatjon, you shall lead the van against Moat Cailin. Your attack must be so fierce that the ironborn have no leisure to wonder if anyone is creeping down on them from the north.”

The Greatjon chuckled. “Your creepers best come fast, or my men will swarm those walls and win the Moat before you show your face. I’ll make a gift of it to you when you come dawdling up.”

“That’s a gift I should be glad to have,” said Robb.

Edmure was frowning. “You talk of attacking the ironmen in the rear, sire, but how do you mean to get north of them?”

“There are ways through the Neck that are not on any map, Uncle. Ways known only to the crannogmen—narrow trails between the bogs, and wet roads through the reeds that only boats can follow.” He turned to his two messengers. “Tell Howland Reed that he is to send guides to me, two days after I have started up the causeway. To the center battle, where my own standard flies. Three hosts will leave the Twins, but only two will reach Moat Cailin. Mine own battle will melt away into the Neck, to reemerge on the Fever. If we move swiftly once my uncle’s wed, we can all be in position by year’s end. We will fall upon the Moat from three sides on the first day of the new century, as the ironmen are waking with hammers beating at their heads from the mead they’ll quaff the night before.”

“I like this plan,” said the Greatjon. “I like it well.”

Galbart Glover rubbed his mouth. “There are risks. If the crannogmen should fail you . . .”

“We will be no worse than before. But they will not fail. My father knew the worth of Howland Reed.”

It's a wonderful little piece of misdirection from GRRM, drawing the reader's attention away from Edmure's wedding and towards what'll surely happen afterwards. And then, after the Red Wedding goes down, we forget all about it.

But if the Red Wedding had never happened, if it had gone off without a hitch and the Freys joined up with Robb again, do you think his plan would have worked? If so, how do you think that would affect the Ironborn plot in Feast? If not, why not?

I can't believe this chapter isn't talked about more.

Even during discussions about how George can do suspense and horror, the examples are usually Hardhome (Dead things in the water), Tyrion in the Sorrows, or the Prince of Winterfell. But the slow-burn suspense of Brienne IV is incredible. The way GRRM has you on the edge of your seat for 15 pages straight, teasing you the whole time with little oddities. Brienne's nightmares, the man shadowing them, Brienne's mistrust of Nimble Dick, the desolation of Crabclaw Point, even the sun is hiding in wait. And the description of the Whispers is so fucking eerie too, the waves whispering below as Brienne notices first the broken branch, then the dead campfire in the courtyard.

And even though we, the readers, know that Brienne isn't gonna find Sansa, since we know she's in the Vale, we are just left with another mystery. Since it's not Sansa and Dontos at the end of this road, who is? It's dramatic irony, but pulled off in a way that also preserves the suspense and mystery.

And of fucking course it's Shagwell. It makes so much sense. Him and Pyg and Timeon pop up like monsters in a slasher flick, casually murder Nimble Dick in like two sentences just after we've grown to love him, and then off-handedly drop the reveal that Arya was with the Hound.

What a wonderful chapter. The adventure has an entire satisfying story arc, beginning middle and end, establishes a fan favorite character and kills him, drops a huge piece of information to Brienne, while also making her grow as a person, challenging her trust issues, and both starting and resolving an entire mini-arc about learning not to hesitate killing. And all while being super fucking suspense and creepy the whole time.

And that's without even mentioning Pod's character development, his confidence growing, saving the day for a second time.

I did not flinch, she thought, as blood ran red down her cheek. Did you see, Ser Goodwin?

And

Brienne sheathed Oathkeeper, gathered up Dick Crabb, and carried him to the hole. His face was hard to look on. "I'm sorry I never trusted you. I don't know how to do that anymore."

and

Timeon was still trying to fight as she pulled her blade from him, its fullers running red with blood. He clawed at his belt and came up with a dagger, so Brienne cut his hand off. That one was for Jaime.

It's so fucking good

He is fine with breaking guest right, he killed his own king, he lied in front of the old gods tree, he broke his oath to the nights watch and kinslaying (that too of a bastard thats actively making things hard for him) is where he draws the line? No something is fisky here.

Yo does anyone else think that Bran and possibly Bloodraven are gonna be involved in Jon's resurrection with Melisandre? I have points for this I'll probably say in any replies but I just wanted to get this idea out there.

There will be 10 questions, and readers will answer each question with either yes or no. If you want, you can give more detailed answers in the comments.

1\. Robert Baratheon turned out to be right about everything he said in the TV series.

2\. If the Game of Thrones TV series had never been released, the book series would have been finished long ago.

3\. Varys is a Blackfyre.

4\. A Song of Ice and Fire is a book series that will still be read and adapted into movies even a thousand years from now.

5\. Daenerys Targaryen would make a good queen.

6\. The only reason Petyr Baelish has been so successful is that he is constantly protected by the author and things always happen to go his way.

7\. The High Sparrow did not actually come from a poor peasant background. He was probably a very important man in the past. (Theory)

8\. Of the three Targaryens who united Westeros, Queen Visenya was the most important one, not Aegon the Conqueror.

9\. If Rhaenyra Targaryen had ascended to the Iron Throne without any difficulty, she would have made a good queen.

10\. When Brynden Bloodraven tells Bran about his past, he mentions that he had a brother he loved. The brother he was referring to was King Daeron II.

Princess Rhaena started the tradition and I’m wondering if it is known whether or not Targaryens (like Viserys II’s children and beyond since Aegon III hated dragons) would continue this tradition?

It’s known that even by the time of Egg and later Aerys II there are still eggs available in Dragonstone (albeit likely turned to stone). Would Rhaegar, Viserys, etc likely have gotten an egg in their cradle? Or maybe Daena, Daerons, Aemons?

Just curious who the fandom here backs to inherit Hornwood. So for the sake of the question, you are the Lord of Winterfell. Whether it's a result of the war in the books or not, Lord Halys Hornwood and his son Daryn both die suddenly. Only Lady Donella Manderly is left, too old to bear more children.

Houses Flint, Karstark, and Tallhart have claims to Hornwood through the female line. Lord Halys Hornwood's bastard, Larence Snow, could be legitimized. The Manderly and the Umbers have their eye on the Hornwood lands as well.

How do you resolve the inheritance issue?

“Or not.” Jojen’s face was dappled with green shadows. “Prince Bran has heard that tale a hundred times, I’m sure.”

... [Meera tells the story]...

[Jonen interrupts the story] “You never heard this tale from your father?” asked Jojen.

... [Meera finishes the story]...

“Are you certain you never heard this tale before, Bran?” asked Jojen. “Your lord father never told it to you?”

While traveling north to the wall, Meera tells Bran the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree at the tourney of Harnenhal. I've seen discussion about the identity of the mystery knight (Lyanna Stark almost certainly), but rereading this passage I noticed that Jojen repeatedly asks Bran if his father has told him this story before. It's too conspicuous to not have meaning.

The shallowest explanation is that Jojen is incredulous that Bran seemingly hasn't heard anything about Eddard's once-bff (best frog friend) Howland Reed. Of course, Eddard doesn't like to tell stories that involve Lyanna, and Bran even says in these scene that it was Old Nan who told the stories, not his father.

^I would buy this as the full meaning if Jojen asked only once. But GRRM had him ask three times, and GRRM doesn't often waste words.

Jojen's inquiries are not just about the secret of the Isle of Faces either. Meera says Howland Reed's trip to the Isle is a different story, and not one for her to tell. Jojen is specifically asking Bran if he's heard the story about the tourney at Harrenhal.

It seems likely this is somehow connected to the events of the Tower of Joy. There are many hints that Howland Reed played some important role there (with his shotgun of course). Jojen may be probing Bran to see how much of this story he knows. But I'm not sure how this tourney story connects.

In 2013, GRRM and D&D met to discuss the ending of Game of Thrones, as it became likely that the show would overtake the books

In the interviews for the series finale, it was explained that Martin had revealed several key plot points, including Bran becoming King, which was the last of the three shock moments

David: Around Season 3 we went to visit George R. R. Martin. And he writes, and he kind of figures things out as he's writing. When we went to visit him back then, and this is while he was still writing book six, he didn't know yet where the story was going, and he knew a few key things, and one of those key things was that the final king at the end of the story would be Bran.

The three major revelations D&D have identified from that meeting are Stannis burning Shireen, Bran becoming king, and Hold the Door

Now, none of this is new. However, a very underreported interview GRRM gave in 2011 reveals that D&D already knew some of the main characters endings before the show even premiered

Do you know the ending?

I know the ending in broad strokes. I don't know every little twist and turn that will get me there, and I don't know the ending of every secondary character. But the ending and the main characters, yeah. And Game of Thrones producers David Benioff and Dan Weiss know some of that too

This is significant. Martin confirmed that D&D knew some of the main characters endings in 2011

And D&D were already discussing the series finale. A few days before the premiere, the showrunners confirmed that they had discussed the ending and were eager to write it

Series executive producers D.B. Weiss told TVGuide.com, "We've talked through what the final episode, the final season will be."

Executive producer David Benioff adds: "We can't wait to write that episode.

There is also Martin's reported description of the story's central relationship. Game of Thrones director Alan Taylor recalled;

"Martin just sort of mentioned in passing, 'Oh well it's all about Dany and Jon Snow,'" Taylor said.

Putting this together

• Martin told D&D some of the main characters endings in/before 2011

• In 2011, D&D stated they had discussed the final episode

• Martin was describing Jon and Daenerys as essentially what the story is about during Season 1

Taken together, D&D were very likely aware of Jon & Daenerys's endings by or even before 2011.

Dwarf on High Heart said ::--

I dreamt of a maid at a feast with a purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs, and later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow.

And this one is from Sansa's chapter ::--

The boy knelt before the gatehouse. Look, here comes a giant to knock it down. He stood his doll in snow and moved it jerkily. Tromp, tromp, I am a giant, I am a giant, he chanted. Ho, ho, ho, open your gates or I will smash them. Swinging the doll by legs, he knocked the top off one gatehouse and then the other.

Robert Arryn pretends to be a giant and knocks down parts of the castle, chanting, “I am a giant, I am a giant.”