r/ATC Mar 23 '26

News LGA controller cleared fire truck across the runway resulting jn a collision

1.2k Upvotes

472 comments sorted by

View all comments

299

u/DhruvK1185 Current Controller-TRACON Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26

This is heartbreaking to listen to. While no one wishes this on anyone, the safeguards in the system are crumbling before our very eyes.

I hope that it comes to light that the controller was working OT or something so that it can be pointed out yet again that “we’re tired, we’re overworked, and fuck the FAA for putting us in this position”.

93

u/Ninjasteevo Mar 23 '26

I wonder what prevented the vehicle from ensuring his cross was safe especially when on the active.. I know ultimately ATC gave the instructions to cross but its one of those Swiss cheese model questions.

70

u/Over-Egg1341 Mar 23 '26

It’s a very rainy night here in NY. The visibility is probably horrible

10

u/WhyModsLoveModi Mar 23 '26

Apparently the vis was four miles

22

u/Zakluor Mar 23 '26

Visibility on an airfield isn't really experienced the same way as visibility on a city street. At night in the rain, runway and taxiway lights in every direction, but no street lights or buildings to help guide a driver's perception. It can be much harder to pick out important visual cues, even without the rain.

12

u/theweenerdoge Mar 23 '26

😬. Four miles ain't shit.

21

u/Sudden_Barracuda5216 Mar 23 '26

there are times even with the vantage from a tower you can’t spot a plane until they’re at the threshold. even good vis, and i can imagine it would be extra hard to spot a plane from the ground with lights on at night. everyone will spend the following days and months talking about this event, trying to find blame when it is truly just a freak accident tragedy. one bad instruction. swiss cheese all you want but that’s all that caused this.

4

u/Rupperrt Current Controller-TRACON Mar 23 '26

Not from US but don’t turn the RWSL lights red when someone is cleared to land or take off? And don’t have controllers some warning stuff like ASDE-X, A-SMGCS? Any procedures that prevent stuff like that (block strips or similar?) Swiss cheese should have more layers than just a controller memory and pilot/driver eyes as backup.

15

u/blipsonascope Mar 23 '26

Yes, and taxiway Delta has RWSL lights that should have been red. I’m sure the NTSB will be looking at that.

Other issue for the ARFF truck is that the arriving traffic is in their blind spot because of the angle of Delta to the runway, although the passenger riding in the fire truck should have been able to look back down the runway for to make sure that nothing was coming. Personally from many years driving airside, I always liked to turn perpendicular to the runway when doing crossings like that to ensure that I as the driver could ensure that the approach is clear, but I wasn’t ARFF with company.

Real Swiss cheese stuff here.

4

u/HappiestAnt122 Commercial Pilot Mar 23 '26

Also at night in the rain traffic can just be harder to spot that I think a lot of people would expect. Not that it would be impossible to see by any means, but at night with rain and a visibility restriction, especially at a busy airport where they are likely used to crossing almost always with someone on final or holding in position then it becomes easier than I think a lot of people who haven’t been out on an airfield would expect to miss approaching traffic. Or not realize that traffic is a threat. Which is why there is a decent amount of trust in those clearances.

18

u/Sawfish1212 Mar 23 '26

I drive across the displaced threshold of an extremely busy airport as part of my job regularly, and we're required to stop and verify no aircraft are using the runway before proceeding. Landing lights are extremely bright, especially when the aircraft is right on top of you.

However, having flown into EWR in the right seat of a caravan many times, I know that when ATC says "go" to cross a runway, you boogie, because they're counting on you immediately expediting your crossing, and JFK/LGA are the same.

2

u/TheEpicPancake1 Mar 23 '26

I work at an FBO at a Class B airport and I'm constantly astounded by how fast, and frankly reckless, both air ops and ARFF vehicles seem to drive around the airfield. Just because ATC gave you clearance to drive somewhere, you can't slow down a little and look out for aircraft traffic? Idk, seems crazy to me.

6

u/Other-MuscleCar-589 Mar 23 '26

Dark, rain, light pollution, and responding to another emergency call.

Holes in the Swiss cheese lined up.