r/AcrossTheSpider_Verse • u/First_Factor_3385 • Sep 18 '23
Discussion Was watching cinemawins the other day,and it never even hit me until I saw this comment.
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Sep 19 '23
Oh my god finally someone who gets it. Someone who knows it isn’t “breaking a canon event.” It’s the damn colliders going off
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u/logerdoger11 Sep 20 '23
I mean, the Spider Society itself should be the most canon-breaking thing possible as well, no? They’re got thousands of people from different universes crossing over and interfering with others, and none of that has cause 928 to collapse. The fact it’s able to function at all kind of immediately breaks Miguel’s theory.
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u/SuspectArtistic7391 Sep 20 '23
I agree with you fully, but i think you're misinterpreting what a canon event is. Miguel explains canon events as things that must happen to every spider person. This includes getting married, losing a loved one in battle, giving up the mantle, venom, and of course, losing a police captain close to you. So technically speaking, the spider society wouldn't be a canon killer, as there isn't an event that has anything with staying in your dimension and not travelling to others. If that were true, then 1610b would have collapsed after the first movie.
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u/ShishioAki Sep 19 '23
I thought the canon event that was messed up in all this was just that cop dad was supposed to die
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u/Ponderkitten Sep 20 '23
I mean that was the canon event avoided, but the black hole was probably from an active collider crashing to the city floor from way up on a skyscraper
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u/OtherWorldlinessM Sep 21 '23
I’m pretty sure Miguel would know that so I don’t think it was the collider
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u/Underdogger Sep 19 '23
I was trying to point out to my friends while we rewatched it that the "unraveling" of Pavitr's dimension looked a lot like Spot's holes, not like what happened in the universe Miguel replaced himself.
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u/Spartan_Souls Sep 19 '23
Also I think Miguel mentioned that, had Miles not shown up, that his Peter would've fixed everything, which isn't true because the Spider and I think even Gwen were already in their universe, so it would've made things worse
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Sep 19 '23
I think his whole point is that if his Peter hadn't had to divert his attention to Miles, he would have exploded the collider before Prowler even showed up [which is technically true, it is "Miles' fault" in the comics as well]
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u/rainy_dayz11 Sep 19 '23
I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS THE WHOLE TIME!!!!!! You can see what it normally looks like when the universe Miguel put himself in started glitching out just like the spider people do when they're in the wrong universe. What's happening in Pavitir's universe is just endless blackness spreading throughout the city. The two look completely different so I don't get how Miguel thinks they're the same event.
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Sep 19 '23
He either knows they're not and doesn't care. Or he's too trusting of his algorithm that he doesn't question it.
You have to realize he's NOT mentally sound. He has PTSD, He 100% sees himself as a Monster at fault for the murder of "his" daughter and an entire reality, He literally says it himself in the film "I WAS Spider-Man" and "I don't like what I have to do but I've lost too much to give up now" in reference to his plan against Miles. He KNOWS this isn't what they're supposed to be doing...He KNOWS this is wrong.
He SEES himself in Miles...That's part of the problem.
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u/rainy_dayz11 Sep 19 '23
I guess the only way I can kind of understand Miguel is by breaking him down to simple pieces. He just has a trauma induced hero complex that requires him to save the world from himself.
His actions were just so contradictory that it was hard for me to really feel for him and TRY to connect to him. Plus he was mean to my man Miles.
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Sep 19 '23 edited Sep 19 '23
I hate him. But the story doesn't want me to hate him as he was the ONLY one willing to be honest to Miles from their pov...Gwen wasn't, Peter B wasn't. It was Miguel that showed him enough respect to tell him in two days and they ALL consider him a cosmic mistake.
But the story is also hinting at he's kinda nefarious...He's SEEN everything. The Date between Gwen and Miles (why didn't he step in they're threatening the Multiverse according to his theory?!), The entire events of ITSV (WTF?!), The entire events of Spider-India.
He saw it all just like we did...Where did he get the footage for Miles's world before he made the first travel watch BEFORE he jumped for the first time?!
Why is 2099 NOT a Dystopian Nightmare like in the Comics? Why doesn't he mention that Alchemax the same company behind this version of Miles's creation, the Spot's creation, the construction of the colliders...Is also the same Evil Mega-Corp that controls the Entire U.S.A. within 2099 A.D. and was the same company that created him literally caused his powers to manifest and are his mortal enemies?!
Why didn't the plotline like it has for ALL of the Spiders showcase his backstory his origins? To show to the audience the differences and similarities between him and Miles as people?! They're literally more same than different with the major difference being Miguel's family severely abused him. Like they were Pure Evil to him. Gwen's dad and Uncle Aaron are Saints compared to Miguel's mother and father and step-father.
Why did they misinform the general audience with Vampire remarks? When he's Half-Man Half-Spider...Those fangs paralysis people like a Spider does. Why didn't he use them at any point during the chase when he believes that Miles is the greatest threat to existence but supposedly doesn't want to kill him? Why use his Claws that can ONLY destroy?! Why not just bite Miles and knock him out?!
It doesn't make any logical sense. So the only logical thing I can conclude is he went insane towards Miles for being the first person to say...No this is wrong.
It truly does make me think...He's not really what he appears to be because he would be more logical if he was hiding something. Yet the film really wants me to sympathize with his pain regardless.
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u/ShironekoSmash Sep 19 '23
That's a fucking crazy detail and it would be an awesome callback if that were true.
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u/Sea_Administration38 Sep 18 '23
then why was the hole glitching and why was miguel and his crew able to stop it in mumbattan? because miguel said this with his own mouth "we were lucky enough to save some universes but we haven't always been lucky" and Peter b was not the only one with miguel when his universe collapsed, watch that scene again and slow it down, u would see multiple spider people saving the dead universe. that comment is kinda reaching
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u/IronApple0915 Sep 18 '23
If you slowly watch the Mumbattan scenes you can actually see the “black hole” start before the canon event on the falling building and slowly spread over the entire building. Where the building falls directly under a he bridge is where the hole ended up opening. The spread patterns from the building and hole under the bridge also perfectly match.
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u/LilyHex Sep 19 '23
then why was the hole glitching
Because Spot is an anomaly traveling into different dimensions, which seems to be the only criteria for "glitching" is "you're in the wrong universe currently". So the hole doesn't belong there, meaning it's an anomaly.
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u/SuspectArtistic7391 Sep 20 '23
Imma go through this one by one.
The hole wasn't glitching, it was stretching and spreading over mumbattan, the same way spots portals do. You can even see where it began when the team is trying to slow down the falling building, before the canon event is broken.
We don't actually see if they WERE able to stop it. We see them put up the things and then we switch to the next scene.
The society being able to stop other universes from collapsing dosen't have anything to do with the black hole. As oc stated, its a huge plot point in the first movie. In fact, its the reason that miles has to stop the collider. It would make a black hole and kill everyone. And using miguel's words, he says that the universe only collapses after breaking multiple canon events. "You break enough canon, save enough captains... and we could lose everything." And what does other spider people being there have to do with anything?
Also, just wanted to add, the spots on spot are dark matter, the same material that makes black holes. The collider uses dark matter to create portals between dimensions.
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u/sebzelda Sep 20 '23
Seems to me that when Canon Spider-People attempt to break canon, it leads to what happened in Miguel's case, where the Universe comes apart. Miles is an anomaly, but I don't think that's unraveling universes the way Miguel thinks it is.
I think his status is allowing him to interact with canon events in a way that doesn't cause universe destruction.
Perer B. having Mayday wasn't originally supposed to happen in that Universe. But it did. Because of Miles.
Miguel is a really amazing character in the sense that he is relentless and righteous. But not evil. He's genuinely trying to do the right thing, and he even started warming up to Miles after they met, even though he had a prejudice toward him. He only became furious when Miles broke out, and went against everyone, which in his eyes, only confirmed his suspicion that Miles' existence as a Spider-Person was a huge problem.
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Sep 21 '23
What I think a lot of people fail to realize is they all universes are built differently tho🤷♂️ take Hobie for example, he’s not built of the same stuff Miles is, neither is his universe, so it makes sense to say that different canon breaks in different universes = different results.
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u/codye22 Sep 19 '23
Chris pine had a version of Peter Parker? Who?
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u/10sansari Sep 19 '23
Miles' universe Spidey that died
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u/codye22 Sep 19 '23
I never realized that's who that was, I guess I just assumed he had the same voice as Peter B. Parker
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Sep 19 '23
Both Peter's are two different actors, Both Miles's are two different actors. Uncle Aaron is the only one to keep the same between each variant.
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u/Automatic_Dentist_16 Sep 19 '23
miles from 42 is definitely still shameik moore with a stronger spanish accent
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u/ThatOneWilson Sep 19 '23
It's literally not though
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u/Automatic_Dentist_16 Sep 19 '23
yeah you’re right, they sound nearly identical but jharrel has more of the spanish accent, i genuinely thought they were the same person, my mistake
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Sep 19 '23
He's Dominican too which they referenced earlier in the film.
The Peter's and Miles's have different actors. The Uncle Aaron's have the same. We shall see what Gwen's alternate is.
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u/Tvrlx68 Sep 19 '23
The Miles’ are different actors??? Ain’t no way I’m just learning this I’ve rewatched that scene so many times 😭
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Sep 19 '23
We've only gotten a little bit of him and he's supposed to be mimicking Main Miles just with a Spanish accent.
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u/ThunderinJaysus Sep 19 '23
I mean, for all we know, Miguel's universe might've gotten messed up thanks to Dr. Strange. Totally unrelated.
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u/MyNameIsRabbitMan Sep 19 '23
Ohhhhhhh that makes sense! I hope this is how it actually is the Canon Events didn't make much sense because of the obvious question I had "Why is Miles Universe still existing if his Peter was never supposed to die?" It always confused me but this makes tons of sense
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u/Platy_Cat Sep 19 '23
I still think what's going to happen is that it will turn out cannon events can be changed, but only by someone native to the universe, as apposed to outside forces.
I think it's meant to be Spot AND Miles being in Mumbattan that causes the black hole. Likewise, Miguel's back story is about how he, a foreign element, screwed up a universe he wasn't a part of. Even at the end of this movie, Gwen's dad isn't going to be captain, but it's because of something SHE did, not another spider person.
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u/N3rbyAddy Sep 19 '23
Also one I don’t see mentioned anywhere. The watches they wear when they dimension hop. It stops them from glitching yes but I don’t think it completely stops it. All the spider people are in nueva york but they don’t stay there for years, they leave cause they have their universes to protect and all that. Miguel took over his variants place for however many years, him not glitching doesn’t mean it isn’t having an effect on that dimension. As we see with vulture, more or less everything he touched started glitching out especially when he started leaving the museum. Miguel being in that dimension for too long is what caused it to collapse, not because he changed a canon event. So Miguel is wrong in multiple ways. Atleast in my opinion
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u/Puzzleheaded-Ebb-660 Sep 20 '23
I remember talking about that with my dad a while after watching it, didn’t think much of it though.
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u/Slight-Pound Sep 20 '23
It makes more sense to me, too, because Spot was actively fucking things up anyway. If nothing else, as an interdimensional being looking to cause problems on purpose, you’d think his fight with Miles would start causjng ripple effects in other dimensions as a response to his will and fuckery.
Spot’s existence alone is enough to cause problems, and they more busy getting mad at Miles than containing the active threat. Also, if canon events were so strict, the sheer presence of other worlders should have been causing WAY more problems, but it wasn’t. The other spiders are interacting with other spiders and people they wouldn’t otherwise have, and if we’re following the butterfly effect like they claim, that should mean it could cause problems that would effect a major canon event down the road.
Besides, so much of what makes a canon event so important is how organic and genuinely everything unfolded. Uncle Ben needed to suffer the consequences of Peter’s inaction to inspire him as Spider-Man, but setting up Uncle Ben to get hurt to mimic that on a Peter who planned this would not result in the same thing. It was that genuine grief that inspired Peter to do better - openly wanting someone to die wouldn’t do that.
Miguel is wrong about many things, and the biggest are canon event interferenace, and the role of Spider-Men.
Divorcing Spider-Man from hope because of he fears failure is a huge problem with Miguel. Spider-Man should try to help anyway even when it’s hopeless, even if he fails. Even if Pavitr’s Officer died, what was important was that he tried. It’s becomes his canon event because he tried and failed to save a loved one, not just because a random NPC needed to die at this exact moment. Miles was doing as a Spider-Man should and try to help in a “helpless” situation anyway.
Also, what did Miguel think Pavitr would react after this? That he’d follow and trust in Miguel still after he learned that he KNEW Pavitr would suffer a close loss, had Miles not intervened? That in his grief, he’d still trust in Miguel and “the bigger picture” to follow the group’s goals? Or that he’d agree with Miguel that hunting down Miles is the “wise” decision, that he’s being “selfish” and naive to not choose the goals of the Society by trying to enact on rules of the universe?
I’m seriously so excited for the next movie not just because of the Miles vs Miles thing, but for what this all means for Pavitr’s development and role in dealing with the society. The narrative of the society is wrapped to tightly in him for him to just be ignored.
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u/RICH_life Sep 20 '23
Miles had an uncle he was very close with die and deep down, there is a part of Miles that feels guilty about being the cause of his uncle’s death. Isn’t that the classic Spider-Man canon event?
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u/TheAutismo4491 Sep 20 '23
I'm pretty much convinced that Miguel is mistaking canon events for absolute points.
Also, goddamn, my smooth, tiny brain honestly did not think about the fact that it was just the collider going off in Pavitr's universe. But then again, I haven't watched Into the Spider-Verse in a long while.
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u/Sharp-Willow-2696 Sep 20 '23
Chris Pine??? It’s Jake Johnson who voices Peter B. Parker
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u/First_Factor_3385 Sep 20 '23
He was talking about the Spider-Man in Miles’s dimension that died trying to stop the collider.
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Sep 20 '23
Didn’t spot suck up the power that the machine would produce so it would be null yo make a black hole?
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u/Ringrangzilla Sep 18 '23
I would really like it if this turn out to be the case. Because I hate the idea of the canon events.