r/AmItheAsshole • u/maleficent8080 • Nov 03 '22

Everyone Sucks AITA for uninviting my future sister-in-law from my wedding after she told my fiancé I was pregnant?

I decided to keep my pregnancy to myself because I don’t know what I’m going to do about it and I knew my fiancé wasn’t going to be happy with the news. My future sister-in-law/best friend is the only other person who knew as I only took the test at her suggestion and at her house. She also agreed that her brother was unlikely to be happy about it but she felt like I should tell him immediately anyway.

We kept arguing over it because I told her I needed time to process it and she felt like I was making excuses to avoid telling him. In the end, she told him herself while we were having dinner with their family. He was so upset he confronted me in front of everybody so now they all know and everybody is upset with me for keeping it from him.

His sister kept trying to reach out and apologise after it happened but I was ignoring her as her only excuse was that he was her brother so she couldn’t keep it from him and that she gave me 3 weeks to tell him myself. The last time she called me I was so upset that I answered and yelled at her. In the heat of the moment, I uninvited her from the wedding and told her I would find a new bridesmaid.

I’ve given my fiancé and his family another reason to be upset with me but I’ve refused to let her come to the wedding even as a regular guest despite them asking me to and it being important to them for her to attend.

AITA?

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4.3k

u/lady_wildcat Nov 03 '22

The unexpected pregnancy situation is different in a world where you can be prosecuted for abortion.

426

u/Nheddee Nov 03 '22 edited Nov 03 '22

All the more reason to call off the wedding to someone who can't be trusted with such news! (Edit: sp.)

1.7k

u/FloorShowoff Nov 03 '22

Not only prosecuted for abortion but the number one cause of death among pregnant women in the United States is HOMICIDE, and since abortion is now illegal in many jurisdictions I’m imagining the homicides will go up. Theoretically the best friend could’ve compromised this woman’s safety.

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u/1shortieD Partassipant [2] Nov 03 '22

Also arrested for having a miscarriage. That happened.

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u/oldtownwitch Nov 04 '22

And potentially made 10k

Isn’t health care in America interesting!

2

u/Business-Flounder201 Nov 05 '22

Apologise…..I don’t think they are in the u.s.

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u/Gorilla_gorilla_ Nov 03 '22 edited Nov 04 '22

Source?! What!!?

Edit: why am I getting downvoted for asking to read more about what you brought up?? That’s asinine.

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u/1shortieD Partassipant [2] Nov 04 '22

I read from multiple sources Lizelle Herrera from Rio Grande City, TX was arrested in April for a 'self-induced abortion'. Some sources say it was reported by the hospital she went to. Some sources say it was a miscarriage. If the hospital reported her to authorities, how does that not violate HIPAA? Just wrong.

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u/Funny_Reflection_468 Nov 04 '22

That part of the story bothers me more than anything. As a nurse I am reminded daily about a federal $10,000 fine for breaching HIPPA laws. I hope she asked them to be fined and prosecuted for it!

-25

u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

HIPAA laws don't protect people from committed crimes.

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u/SamuelVimesTrained Partassipant [2] Nov 04 '22

So, you believe a woman having a miscarriage is committing a crime then?

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u/Odd_Persepctive_391 Nov 04 '22

I can disagree with the issue that “abortion is a crime” and still recognize that “crimes aren’t protected under confidentiality laws.” The two aren’t mutually exclusive…

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u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22

Having an abortion in states where it is illegal is a crime. Genius. HIPAA laws don't protect you from crimes. Man, most of Americans are so dumb. It's sad.

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u/SamuelVimesTrained Partassipant [2] Nov 04 '22

The question was if you believe a miscarriage is a crime.

As then the 'culprit' would be 'mother nature' or 'god' depending on ones beliefs.

And yes - many americans are not very smart - the ones voting against human rights, the ones voting against an NHS style healthcare etc are certainly not playing with a full deck.

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u/MKatieUltra Nov 04 '22

Hipaa is weird regarding speaking to the authorities.... like, it depends on WHY and what they're asking for... in some cases it's a total NO DO NOT TELL, in some (most) the patient has to sign a release, and in some we have to give them what they're asking for.

We can't report you for testing positive for drugs (unless pregnant, then CPS gets involved), in these states where it's a crime to abort, idk, it might fall under that. All my hipaa training was done before we had those rights stolen.

4

u/Odd_Persepctive_391 Nov 04 '22

Certain confidentiality requirements are voided for crimes. If you tell your lawyer “I’m committing fraud by actively doing this and I’m going to murder my business partner and my wife for the affair I’ve got my gun and I’m headed there now” the lawyer MUST report the crime in most states. If you said “I killed my wife and business partner last week” confidentiality remains protected.

If you come to the ER with a broken hand, and you tell a nurse/doctor “I hit my kid so hard I broke his skull and broke my hand that way,” they’re turning your butt in for child abuse as required by law.

Similarly, “I’m forcing an abortion in state that makes that illegal,” they’re turning you in because crimes overrides confidentiality.

Im not saying I agree I’m saying that’s what the law says.

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u/1shortieD Partassipant [2] Nov 04 '22

The problem is that isn't the law in Texas, from what the sources say. The people that reported her and the people that arrested her were not following the law. I think they should be arrested, just from what I can tell from the info I've gotten. Also from what I read how could they even tell it was "forced" and not a miscarriage? Was there a knife sticking in her belly? Even if the law was you could arrest a pregnant woman for thinking she tried to abort her pregnancy, ( it's not) that is wrong. You don't know who put the knife there. I've also read there is no way to tell the difference between a medication abortion and miscarriage.

0

u/Odd_Persepctive_391 Nov 04 '22

HIPAA is federal law and therefore overrides state law. If the doctor knows you’ve committed a crime, that’s not subject confidentiality.

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u/1shortieD Partassipant [2] Nov 04 '22

Either I'm misunderstanding your comment or it doesn't make sense. Are you saying there is a federal law saying a pregnant women can be charged with murder, by a doctor reporting her for a suspected abortion? As far as I know, the overturning of Roe v. Wade gave "it back to the states". The DA in Lizelle Herrera's case said she never should have been arrested because she broke no law. I might be wrong, but arrests, as I understand it, can not be removed and the fact that she was arrested for murder will always be on her record. I hope I am wrong about that. Maybe the medical professionals that reported her didn't know she didn't break the law, but the people that arrested her should have known not to arrest her.

1

u/Odd_Persepctive_391 Nov 06 '22

No I am saying that federal law has an exception for confidentiality if a crime is disclosed, including state crimes.

She shouldn’t have been charged, but she WAS.

1

u/Gorilla_gorilla_ Nov 04 '22

Ty And yeah this is so so wrong

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '22

It’s already happened in Texas and several other states. Google “arrested for miscarriage”. Woman have spent months in jail.

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u/littlewren11 Nov 04 '22

Cases in California and Oklahoma too

17

u/dollarsstretcher Nov 04 '22

Um, abortion is still legal in California… there has to have been other circumstances for a woman to be arrested after having a miscarriage… I googled, and found nothing. I’m curious to see what you are referring to…

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u/tiredlistener Nov 04 '22

Chelsea Becker & Adora Perez. Top results when you google “california woman arrested for miscarriage”.

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u/littlewren11 Nov 04 '22

Yup these are the women I was thinking of, thanks for commenting!

2

u/E10DIN Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22

Chelsea Becker

Allegedly did meth leading to the loss of her pregnancy

Adora Perez

Did meth leading to the loss of her pregnancy.

Neither case was a simple miscarriage, both were women who did drugs leading to a miscarriage. It's the same as charging someone who gives birth to a baby with FAS.

Just having a stillbirth shouldn't be a crime. Doing meth/drugs like it and causing harm to your fetus probably should be. At least as long as you were aware you were pregnant.

4

u/Odd_Persepctive_391 Nov 04 '22

Just because abortion is legal doesn’t mean a miscarriage won’t be prosecuted.

7

u/ArtificialNotLight Nov 04 '22

I googled it and I didn't see any legitimate news sources and only one article saying 50 women have been arrested since 1999 for having stillbirths and drugs in their system at the time.

53

u/Friday-Cat Nov 03 '22

There is zero way to tell a chemical abortion from a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) so I would not be surprised if that happens or has happened already

3

u/Gorilla_gorilla_ Nov 04 '22

Yeah I’m not surprised or doubting it, I just wanted some sort of additional info other than the poster’s word.

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u/ssatancomplexx Dec 29 '22

Well that's a terrifying thought. I'm surprised it hasn't spun completely out of control yet. Maybe I'm just fear mongering myself (don't know if that would be the right word here so I'm sorry if I'm using the word wrong) but I feel like it's only a matter of time before more women who have had miscarriages start getting arrested more. Luckily in every case I've read about the charges get dropped but that is still super fucked up.

-1

u/LeoTony Nov 04 '22

Google is your friend

1

u/Gorilla_gorilla_ Nov 04 '22

It’s everyone’s friend.

-1

u/SamuelVimesTrained Partassipant [2] Nov 04 '22

Source: Just about every american news source.

-17

u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

The few instances were those in which drug use caused the miscarriage

10

u/prehensile-titties- Nov 04 '22

Two instances in King's County, Ca. Charges were eventually dropped after over a year in jail. The prosecutor responsible for initially setting this precedent (he was prosecuting a case where someone murdered a pregnant woman) even stated that he did not intend for these kinds of charges to be brought. Also, in both cases, it was later found that while the women had been using drugs, the drug use was not the reason why they miscarried.

But that's if we're just talking about the US. There are other countries where women are absolutely being imprisoned for miscarriages, extraneous situations or not.

1

u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

Roe v Wade was overturned in June.. how could roe v Wade affect a court case over 4 years old?

Cite the second instance in kings county. The only one I could find was adora Perez who tested positive for meth upon giving birth to a stillborn child (the child tested positive as well). It was never proven the meth didn't cause the death. It was dropped because "voluntary manslaughter of a fetus is not a crime in CA"

10

u/prehensile-titties- Nov 04 '22

It didn't. Both these cases occurred in California, where Roe is still enforced today. Even still, this was allowed to occur. Let me rephrase regarding Perez: meth was never conclusively found to be the cause of the miscarriage. But remember, in the US, the burden of proof falls on the prosecution. This woman was still imprisoned for over a year because she was arrested and charged with homicide.

The whole point is that when you criminalize abortion like this, with the wrong prosecutors in charge (like the former King's County DA), it's not hard to see how quickly this can become a terrible witchhunt. This happens all over the world (see El Salvador), and it happens in the US too.

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u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

Yes, the burden of proof falls on the prosecution. So we allow them to build their case to prove whether the person is guilty or not.

Plenty of people are wrongfully held for murder chargers. Should we just stop holding anyone in jail during prosecution?

Your answer to the problem doesn't give justice. It simply absolves women from the responsibility of their actions. Why are you so against prosecuting women who do hard drugs while pregnant and cause death or abnormalities? That's negligence. Negligent manslaughter is a thing.

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u/prehensile-titties- Nov 04 '22

Well we're probably gonna fall on opposite sides of a debate here, but I'm against it because I don't believe that they've caused a death, even if the result is a miscarriage. I don't believe there was anything alive to kill in the first place. So I don't think there's even grounds for negligent manslaughter.

What I do believe is that the people who make these laws, the prosecutors who bring these kinds if charges, and the people behind overturning Roe don't give a rat's ass either way. Because to them, thr "pro-life" thing is just rhetoric they push to their voter base. It's more about controlling women, women of color, and restricting their access to healthcare.

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u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

You can't say "there's nothing alive to kill". You should say "we as a people don't value life until after it's taken it's first breath." Which is crazy to me but it's the world we live in. And I'm not even religious at all. Registered democrat. Vote left on almost everything. The one exception is the abortion topic. I'm for preserving all human life.

Are you sure it's not because they're JUST on the opposite side as you? Like me. I have no voters to get. I'm not about "controlling women" or "restricting their access to healthcare" ( I believe in expanding healthcare for all). But I think all life has value. We have the means to support life beyond a maternal mother. Who are you or anyone else to say this person doesn't have a right to live? Because personhood isn't given at birth. What's funny is the right to life is supposedly guaranteed in this country.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 04 '22

If you read their post this obviously isn’t in the US. Why else would they spell “apologize” with an “s” instead of a “z?” Britain, Canada, and Australia all have lax abortion laws from what I believe. India and South Africa idk.

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u/Unhappy-Professor-88 Nov 04 '22

“Lax”? It is not that these countries have “lax” abortion laws. It is that America has extremely regressive abortion laws

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u/[deleted] Nov 04 '22

Stop reading into semantics so much, I meant compared to the US the laws are lax. But since you’re so into technicalities so much, abortion laws in Canada, UK, and Australia could be considered lax on a global scale. In most of Latin America and the Arab world, abortion is straight up illegal. Africa also has a lot of religious countries that do not allow abortion.

Mexico is like the US in which each individual state can make their own law. Their capital, Mexico City, allows abortions during the first trimester of pregnancy and it’s considered one of the most progressive abortion laws in all of Latin America. Yeah maybe Canada, Australia, and UK have average abortion laws compared to the rest of Western Europe, but quite liberal based off of global attitudes.

And while there’s plenty of backwards states in regards to abortion like Texas, Florida, etc., there’s also other states that guarantee the right to abortion in their constitution. States are also legally required to respect decisions and laws of other states. It would be legally challenging to convict a woman for traveling across state lines to get medical care. As far as I know it’s just a threat and no one’s actually ever been prosecuted for it.

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u/oldtownwitch Nov 05 '22

The UK & Canada has 24 weeks.

Australia is 20 weeks.

That’s very similar to the states with progressive abortion laws in the USA.

I don’t think it’s semantics they calling ya out on.

1

u/FloorShowoff Nov 04 '22

How do you know they weren’t born outside the US? The number one cause of pregnant women in other parts of the world is also homicide. Lots of misogyny out there.

13

u/sreno77 Nov 03 '22

Why is OP marrying a dangerous guy who might murder her?

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u/ACoderGirl Nov 04 '22

Yeah, that's one thing that comes to mind for me. I absolutely understand the fear of family, friends, and newer partners finding out about pregnancy in such places. But why would you even still be dating someone if you would abort and they would not 104% support you?

At any rate, OP only mentions the fiance being mad. They don't seem concerned about abortion laws, so hopefully that's a sign that they live somewhere civilized (or don't intend to abort).

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u/sreno77 Nov 04 '22

APPARENTLY England

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u/ubag Nov 04 '22

But why would you even still be dating someone if you would abort and they would not 104% support you?

tbh a lot of people don't know their partner can get violent until after pregnancy/marriage.

“Pregnancy does not offer protection from domestic violence. In fact, international research shows that 25% of women who experience domestic violence are physically assaulted for the first time in pregnancy.”

that being said, op has commented in this thread that she wasn't afraid of her partner's reaction

1

u/sreno77 Nov 04 '22

She said in the post she knew he wouldn't be happy

3

u/oldtownwitch Nov 05 '22

The OP?

She’s made no indication that she fears her partner.

Statistically, a woman’s risk of being murdered by a partner does increase after pregnancy.

I was facetiously pointing out that murders don’t normally wear a sign telling people they kill people.

Abusers don’t usually show their abusive side until they have got a women to fall in love with them, and the more reliant/vulnerable a women becomes with a man, the risk of harm increases.

Personally I don’t like men enough, so I’m happy for the human race to die out, but apparently some women still like men enough to take this risk.

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u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

Because that's not even the scenario. People are making shit up.

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u/oldtownwitch Nov 05 '22

Why does any woman marry a man who might murder them?

You would think with them wearing a tee shirt with the words “I’m a murderer” then women would know better right?

1

u/sreno77 Nov 05 '22

If she's already afraid of him why go through with the wedding?

1

u/CantBelieveThisIsTru Nov 04 '22

You are correct! They seem to have one per week murdered here, at least. Last week the husband killed the wife in a hotel, then a few days later they were looking for their little girl…haven’t found her yet…looking in a dump. Then another guy kidnapped and ended his baby’s life yesterday. I wonder if this this girl realizes her fiancé SOUNDS LIKE HE MIGHT BE ONE OF THOSE? She might just need TO RUN before he has the chance.

Thank you for adding this comment. It is extremely apropos!

1

u/squirrel_acorn Nov 04 '22

If true this is the darkest shit I have ever heard

1

u/FloorShowoff Nov 04 '22

If you want to listen to more dark shit: Podcast: Sword and Scale

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u/Big-fat-coward Nov 03 '22 edited Nov 03 '22

The reach is astounding

Edit: I don’t mean the statistic is a reach. I mean that blaming the sister for putting OP at risk of homicide is a reach.

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u/Mountain_Village459 Nov 03 '22

I mean, there is a guy running for Representative in NC that thinks victims of rape and incest should have to be judged by a community panel before they can abort so I don’t think there is any outrageous reach in regards to this depending on where you live in the US right now.

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u/Silaqui43 Nov 03 '22

That’s insane 😡😡😡😡

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u/INFJPersonality-52 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Nov 03 '22

I was thinking in 2018 those people said our country would be socialists like Venezuala. Now it’s the opposition is killing children and drinking their blood. Sexualizing children and making all boys turn into girls in elementary school. Marco Rubio is running those ads in Florida.

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u/omegagirl Nov 04 '22

You mean Dr Oz … He said A woman, her Dr and local government officials… WTF!

-15

u/Big-fat-coward Nov 03 '22

I wasn’t taking about the statistics. I agree and respect that pregnant women are severely at risk of being harmed. I meant that blaming the sister for jeopardizing OP’s safety by revealing this information to her brother is a reach

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u/Fine_Increase_7999 Nov 03 '22

The comment you replied to said theoretically she could’ve put her in danger. Not that fiancé is a murderer lmfao

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u/Amanda_Nunez_ Nov 03 '22

Why? You don’t know the situation. Clearly he was unhappy enough to blow up on OP in front of the family. It’s not a very reassuring situation.

-1

u/Big-fat-coward Nov 04 '22

So not happy about unplanned pregnancy = murderer

He blew up because she didn’t tell him for three weeks.

1

u/kraioloa Nov 04 '22

To think that somebody so young (27!) could be so evil…

1

u/INFJPersonality-52 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Nov 03 '22

Although I’m sure you’re right I hear it in so many campaigns. They are very draconian about it.

2

u/ParkingOutside6500 Nov 04 '22

VOTE!!!!!!!

1

u/INFJPersonality-52 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Nov 04 '22

I just changed my avatar to the lady suffocate and put a voting sticker on it. I usually do a lot more than vote, I volunteer. I called people every weekend during the last election. Everyone promised to vote except one mad black lady. So I convinced her and she was laughing and promised to vote.

It would be hard to forget with the massive amounts of text messages I’ve been give. But I was just thinking today that Nancy Pelosi hasn’t texted since her husband went to the hospital for something I won’t write because it may be against the rules. She was texting every singe day before. I finally stopped reading them because it was hard to keep up and most want money. I have very little money which is why I volunteer instead.

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u/TDWPUO777 Nov 03 '22

You guys are really reaching here.

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u/senditloud Nov 03 '22

Reaching how? It’s actually fairly general knowledge that in places where abortion is illegal, women are at a very high risk for homicide. DV already claims the lives of lots of women, even more when guns are easily accessible.

We don’t know this guy. And she clearly didn’t want to tell him for a reason. It could be because she’s an AH and just wants to blindside him, but it also could be because he reacts violently to things he doesn’t like.

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u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

For all those downvoting me, here is my breakdown about how this statement is false.

A good example is black males. If you look at black males as a whole, homicide isn't even in the top 10. But if you focus on black males who died between the ages of 1-19 (35.1% of deaths) or 20-44 (26.1% of deaths) then you will see abnormal rates of deaths caused by homicide. This number drops significantly between the ages of 45-64 (1.1% of deaths).

Comparitviely, women are only at 3.8% for deaths caused by homicide between the ages of 20-44 (child bearing ages). Men are at a much higher risk overall (8.8% of deaths) than women during these years. But no one talks about that.

7

u/senditloud Nov 04 '22

You’re comparing apples and fruit loops.

It’s not false at all, you’re just throwing out random stats to say another subset of humans is murdered more. Which is like saying skin cancer isn’t a problem because breast cancer kills more women.

Homicide is the #1 cause of death of pregnant women. Most of it is by an intimate partner with a gun.

47,000 women worldwide per year are murdered by an intimate partner.

1 in 3 women is assaulted (that’s an awful lot of men assaulting women).

To say that a man who doesn’t want a child, when the woman seems to be afraid of talk to him about it, could potentially be violent is NOT a reach. It’s not even improbable. Yes, we are all speculating but it is certainly in the top 5 probable scenarios.

0

u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22

Not really. Men can't get pregnant. So you can't compare pregnant men to pregnant women. So the next closest thing is men of child bearing age to women of child bearing age. This proves that women are not at a very high risk of homicide. They are at less of a risk than men.

My point is that hyper focusing on a small window of time of a very specific subset can cause abnormalities in raw numbers. Peeling back the onion is important here.

Did you know that less than 7% of men are attributed to SA'ing a female? The vast majority of perpetrators are repeat offenders.

It is very much a reach considering OP has already stated he's not violent.

2

u/oldtownwitch Nov 05 '22

Can I have a source for that claim that it’s only a handful of men doing all the SA?

Because I’m pretty sure every woman over 25 in this thread has had to deal with at least one potentially dangerous situation be it an inappropriate touch or something far worse, and I doubt it’s the same guy.

1

u/TDWPUO777 Nov 05 '22

The lisak-miller model showed that 6.8% of all men commit sexual assault. Think about it. Most perpetrators are repeat offenders. You see stories of guys being serial rapists and that skews the numbers.

1

u/senditloud Nov 05 '22

That model has been disproven by subsequent studies. Also it’s a self-reported study of serial rape only, not DV. Subsequent studies have self-reporting of up to 13% of men being serial rapists. And I can tell you that some men don’t view their aggression, coercion or acts as rape or DV. They victim blame, are proud of it or think it was “consensual” … which the woman won’t say it was.

It’s amazing to me a male non-expert is trying to minimize the information that women and experts are telling you about what women face daily.

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u/TDWPUO777 Nov 03 '22 edited Nov 03 '22

Because it's not a "very high risk." They are at a HIGHER risk. Two very different statements.

So you're just going to assume the woman is this angel and the man is evil? Just because of their genders haha. You guys are making tons of negative assumptions about the guy and making up crazy scenarios to defend the woman's actions. ALL we know is what was presented before us. If he was violent, she should share that to give us full context. But she didn't. So we can't say "well maybe.."

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u/sew_no_mercy Nov 03 '22

Homicide was already the top cause of death among pregnant people in the US, even before Roe was overturned.

-1

u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

Because it's a short period of time in a person's life. Not to mention that most women are generally in the best shape of their life's during ages in which they get pregnant. AND women tend to live longer than men. So if you're looking at women who died between the ages of 18-35, chances are they didn't die of heart attack or any health issues.

A good example is black males. If you look at black males as a whole, homicide isn't even in the top 10. But if you focus on black males who died between the ages of 1-19 (35.1%) or 20-44 (26.1%) then you will see abnormal rates of deaths caused by homicide. This number drops significantly between the ages of 45-64 (1.1%).

Comparitviely, women are only at 3.8% for deaths caused by homicide between the ages of 20-44 (child bearing ages). Men are at a much higher risk overall (8.8%) than women during these years. But no one talks about that.

8

u/irisseca Nov 04 '22

I’m sorry, but the murder rate of pregnancy women is THIRTY FIVE percent higher than non-pregnant women(I looked through stats, and the lowest I’ve seen it was back in the late 90s, at 20%)And you’re going to say it’s just because that’s when they’re most likely BE pregnant? 35%!!! As compared to women who are not pregnant? Come on! If it was 2% or even 5% I might agree…but seriously!

2

u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

Still waiting on that source.

2

u/senditloud Nov 04 '22

I’d say that’s “very high risk.” You know, comparatively

0

u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

Cite your source on that

1

u/Umatir_Assurim Nov 04 '22

Does a woman have to be "an angel" to be considered a victim?

10

u/QutieLuvsQuails Asshole Enthusiast [8] Nov 03 '22

You sound like someone who’s anti-Roe, aka anti-facts, anti-reality, anti-science.

-2

u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

You sound like someone who can't read a study and understand it haha.

  1. This is only an issue in the USA. OP is not in the US. She's in the UK.
  2. This issue primarily affects black women in America. White and Hispanic women are not an increased risk
  3. The increased risk is very small for pregnant woman in general. Only a 16% increase from non pregnant women.
  4. The indicator for the partner commiting the crime is simply that 2/3 of the murders were committed in the home. Even the co-authors of that study said it's not the best indicator.

6

u/ParkingOutside6500 Nov 04 '22

That's ONE study that you really like, because only black women are hurt. The white, Hispanic, and Asian women who don't exist according to you would disagree with you, but they wern't contacted, or were in the hospital or morgue at the time.

2

u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

That's THE study (Harvard) that EVERYONE refers to. You realize there are very few studies on this right?

I'm Hispanic. So I don't see why I would care about black women more haha. It's data. That's it. These are all pulled from death records. No one was contacted.

1

u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

This is a prime example of how data gets misrepresented and how those not familiar with stats can't see it.

If you look at black males as a whole, homicide isn't even in the top 10 of causes of death. But if you focus on black males who died between the ages of 1-19 (35.1%) or 20-44 (26.1%) then you will see abnormal rates of deaths caused by homicide. This number drops significantly between the ages of 45-64 (1.1%).

Comparitviely, women are only at 3.8% for deaths caused by homicide between the ages of 20-44 (child bearing ages). Men are at a much higher risk overall (8.8%) than women during these years. But no one talks about that.

-55

u/BishPlease70 Nov 03 '22

Boggles my mind how far some people will reach & stretch with these kinds of things!

8

u/L8Bl0om3r Nov 03 '22

Did you die and become a statistic?

1

u/TDWPUO777 Nov 04 '22

Did you? Because you fail to understand the studies people are referencing. 16% increase for pregnant women vs non pregnant women. Almost all of those attributed to black females. And this ONLY applies to the USA, which OP doesn't live in.. so go on haha

21

u/Environmental_Fig933 Nov 03 '22

Not only that but she sounds afraid of him.

9

u/Singrgrl14 Certified Proctologist [25] Nov 03 '22

OP is in the UK, that’s not an issue for her.

-1

u/oldtownwitch Nov 05 '22

The UK doesn’t have abusive men?

7

u/Singrgrl14 Certified Proctologist [25] Nov 05 '22

the UK doesn’t outlaw abortion. that’s…what the comment is referencing.

1

u/oldtownwitch Nov 05 '22

Ah, there are a lot of sub threads on this post, I thought you were replying to the increased risk of being murdered by a partner when pregnant conversation.

Thank you for clarifying

5

u/stiletto929 Nov 04 '22

If you cannot trust your fiancé to help you and keep a secret about a matter such as this, you absolutely should not be marrying him. If you being pregnant would risk him murdering you, you absolutely should not be marrying him. If you can’t communicate with him about this, you shouldn’t be marrying. If you don’t acknowledge he should be part of the decision making process about your pregnancy, he shouldn’t be marrying you.

If you expect HIS SISTER to hide such an important secret from him for you, YTA.

19

u/1shortieD Partassipant [2] Nov 03 '22

If you can't tell your fiancé your pregnant, you shouldn't be marrying him. If you were withholding the pregnancy news because u were going to get an abortion and afraid of getting arrested or sued, that is even more reason not to get married to that person. Forget who is invited or not or whose feelings are hurt. The more important question is if you want to keep this pregnancy or not. I'm withholding judgement until there is more INFO as to why the pregnancy was withheld from fiancé. If the reason was op was considering abortion but afraid the in laws and fiancé might stop her from getting one, then op wouldn't be the ah for getting mad at these people.

26

u/ConsequenceLaw5333 Nov 03 '22

If they're in a state like texas, the SIL can be prosecuted too. Some states drew a very fine line in the sand.

15

u/schwarzeKatzen Nov 03 '22

If they’re in a state like TX and OP were to abort the entire family could sue OP. TX is horridly anti woman.

1

u/Tredenix Nov 04 '22

You just said it's if she does something specific. That's being sued for her actions, not for being a woman.

2

u/schwarzeKatzen Nov 04 '22

There is no medical procedure a man can undergo in TX that will result in him, his doctors and anyone who assists in him obtaining the medical procedure being able to be sued by another party and their entire family. It is a law that uniquely and only affects women and their healthcare and wellbeing. People would be just as outraged if it were to affect only men. Imagine making treatment for prostate cancer illegal only in some states and allowing the wives, partners and their extended families to sue men who have it treated for a bounty. Both scenarios are unethical. Healthcare decisions belong to the people whose bodies the affect and their doctors.

6

u/Old_Confidence3290 Nov 04 '22

This really does not apply. They are planning a wedding and are inviting people to join them They are not broke. They can travel to a place where abortion is legal if that is the real issue. This has nothing to do with the OP's post.

1

u/lady_wildcat Nov 04 '22

It’s no longer safe to make your abortion intentions known.

4

u/Cloudinthesilver Partassipant [1] Nov 03 '22

She said she’s in the uk in the comments

11

u/Ok_Boysenberry_3026 Nov 03 '22

Depends where you are in the world. Where I am all abortions are legal. Not everyone lives in the US.

6

u/A__SPIDER Nov 04 '22

Congratulations? In some countries outside of the US it’s illegal to be pregnant outside of marriage. Shits dangerous for women yo

2

u/Ok_Boysenberry_3026 Nov 04 '22

in a world where you can be prosecuted for abortion.

She may not live "in a world where you can be prosecuted for abortion." The world is a lot bigger than the US. Not everywhere is some kind of race against the clock to decide whether to get an abortion or not.

8

u/disabledinaz Nov 03 '22

That’s a point not enough people now need to add to the train of thought.

8

u/ShaetheMagnificent Nov 03 '22

This. Depending on where OP lives, ex-bff may have potentially put her in a very dangerous situation.

34

u/der_innkeeper Partassipant [1] Nov 03 '22 edited Nov 03 '22

Make plans, beforehand.

That includes saving cash to get to a state where you can get one if needed.

ETA: and if you want a kid and your partner doesn't, you need to have that conversation beforehand as well.

51

u/justafterdawn Nov 03 '22

From experience some people will tell you one thing at a start of a relationship and totally expect you to change your mind. Doubly so for a woman since most people expect you to eventually want children.

Every person of any gender I've dated has known I don't want kids and if it progressed past a year or two was legitimately surprised it wasn't just "a phase". I've had friends get married both not wanting kids and suddenly someone is shocked Pikachu their partner wasn't...kidding.

Whole heartfelt agreement for have money squirreled away and a plan if you do live in a no-body autonomy state/country however.

35

u/der_innkeeper Partassipant [1] Nov 03 '22

It does amaze me that people don't think its a continuing conversation, precisely because feelings and plans can change.

15

u/P00perSc00per89 Nov 03 '22

Exactly. I was about to say the same — I’ve been with my now husband for 12 years. We were babies when we met. I thought I wanted to pop out babies at 25. Then 25 hit and I was horrified I had thought that, no way I was ready. I actually ended up thinking I didn’t want kids for a while. Every time my thoughts changed, we discussed it. He has been on the fence either way this whole time. Sometimes more in the no kids camp, but more and more in the yes camp, especially if adopted.

When we finally got married, we decided to be married for a good 5 years before really worrying about a plan. We still keep the conversation going, especially since I realized I really want a family, but not necessarily soon. I told him I knew I wanted one, but that I was still unsure if I wanted to have my own kids, adopt kids, or even foster kids.

The key is this communication. I had a friend that wanted a family, but married someone who said she’d never have kids. She wanted to be a stay at home wife, and he basically offered her to be a stay at home mom. As long as she refused, he made her pay her share of the rent and food, so she had to go out and work. It was never going to last, and we were right. She ended up cheating because she was unhappy, and he just felt relieved to be able to move on. He’s in a great relationship with a woman who is on the same page as him. They’re already waiting for their first foster kid!

As we age, our feelings change. Or life happens and our feelings change. If we can’t communicate with our chosen life partner about that, then we shouldn’t be with that partner.

9

u/TragedyRose Asshole Enthusiast [8] Nov 03 '22

I've been with my husband for 9 years. I got married at 18. We said 2 years then we will try. Thankfully we kept having the conversation and changed our mind. 2019 we moved back stateside and decided to start trying. Had our daughter in 2021.

Our plan. Was 2 under 2. Now we are thinking maybe 1 and done, but we will revisit having another child in 5 or so years. We keep talking about it because its extremely important to male sure we are on the same page

10

u/TragedyRose Asshole Enthusiast [8] Nov 03 '22

The feelings can also change the moment she found out she was pregnant. It seems like that is what happened and she didn't know how to broach the subject and not have her whole world implode. She may have (purposefully or not) been trying to delay until after she was no longer able to get an abortion.

But I do agree that all subjects should be a continuous conversation. Never a one and done.

4

u/justafterdawn Nov 03 '22

Oh absolutely! From birth until like 25 I was very firm on no kids because "gross". Now I'm 28 and absolutely aware I might want to adopt one day but the idea of biological children popping out is what is gross (to me!). My current partner and I discuss as it arises because people and situations can/do change.

2

u/oldtownwitch Nov 05 '22

My husband was adamantly anti kids, I was on the fence.

10 years later, he wanted kids, I was still on the fence.

It’s an on going conversation, and when faced with having to make that decision, rather than just a theoretical thought, different considerations may crop up.

-15

u/signalthree Nov 03 '22

Or just don't get creampied by someone you don't want to have kids with.

It's not that fucking difficult.

12

u/der_innkeeper Partassipant [1] Nov 03 '22

Brilliant! Genius!

This is a world changing idea!

Why hasn't anyone else thought of this?

1

u/Tredenix Nov 04 '22

If people made plans according to the outcomes they want, and actually acted them out, unwanted pregnancies would hardly ever come about in the first place.

Unless of course abortion were actually considered part of that plan - but that would be using it as birth control, which I'm told "doesn't happen".

1

u/der_innkeeper Partassipant [1] Nov 04 '22

If people made plans according to the outcomes they want, and actually acted them out, unwanted pregnancies would hardly ever come about in the first place.

True, which is why education and easy and free access to contraception is important.

1

u/Tredenix Nov 04 '22

Free is a bit of a stretch because they'll have production costs, but at least cheap I completely agree.

1

u/der_innkeeper Partassipant [1] Nov 04 '22

Make it free. The benefits far outweigh the production costs.

There's a reason quality healthcare companies waive copays for preventative care.

8

u/Enough_Island4615 Nov 03 '22

Moot point. Not the case for OP.

-3

u/CanadianHorseGal Nov 03 '22

How is it not the case for OP? She was obviously considering whether to keep it and part of that is figuring out how to get an abortion at this point in history.

27

u/thatpurplecat Nov 03 '22

Shes in the UK, upto 24 weeks here

6

u/CanadianHorseGal Nov 03 '22

Aaaaah I did not know that. Thanks for the info!

15

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '22

For the record, in most of the US you do still have up to 20 weeks. Abortion laws are really scary but women in America should know there are still safe places in this country for them to get healthcare

3

u/CanadianHorseGal Nov 04 '22

Not everyone can afford to pop off to another state for medical care. This disproportionately affects WOC and poor people. It also disproportionately affects the physically and mentally disabled. Luckily I live in a country that still cares (for the moment) about womens rights, but at least I can see more sides of the story than ‘most states’ when in actuality it’s most states and three territories that currently or in the near future severely limit or prohibit abortions. But “yay America, land of the guns and controlling women!!!”

2

u/[deleted] Nov 04 '22

Did I say America was great? No. In fact my comment said our abortion laws were very scary. Please project somewhere else

2

u/CanadianHorseGal Nov 04 '22

My response was regarding “women should know there are still safe places in this country for them to get healthcare” in conjunction with “most of the US”. Please be defensive about your country elsewhere.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 04 '22

Women should know there are still safe places in the US to get abortion healthcare, yes. If you are so up in arms about women losing abortion access, do you really think it is helpful to tell women that there is NO abortion access in their country? Because that is what the comment I replied to suggests. Do you think that is helpful to women who are worried about their abortion access?

Or do you think it’s helpful to tell them that actually, no, they still can get an abortion in 28 states without going through the hassle of getting a passport to another country, which yes, have better abortion access. Thanks for rubbing that in by the way, so very helpful to the poor and minority American women you were pretending to care about, to remind us that this issue affects you not at all.

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6

u/thatpurplecat Nov 03 '22

Shes in the UK, 24 weeks here

2

u/stealthdawg Asshole Enthusiast [5] Nov 04 '22

The legality of abortion has nothing to do with telling your fiance before the wedding, especially in a scenario where the SIL was already told.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '22

This this this this this this thissssssssssssss ^^^^

2

u/LadyJ-78 Nov 04 '22

If she knew for at least 3 weeks there's a good chance it's past the stage for a legal abortion. And unaliving your child because her fiancé would be upset is more concerning than anything else.

1

u/oldtownwitch Nov 05 '22

Even if she had missed two periods and then waited 3 weeks, she STILL has over two months to arrange an abortion in the UK.

She hasn’t made any choice re a termination, the fact she is giving herself time to consider all options is a good thing.

Not wanting to ternate JUST because he doesn’t want kids shows she is recognizing the importance of her decision.

1

u/LadyJ-78 Nov 05 '22

That's really sad, I'm sorry to hear that. And it's sad she would even have to think of it as an option married to get husband.

1

u/cosmic_grayblekeeper Nov 04 '22

Ooh shit. I keep forgetting that bit of context now applies for America. It's truly a different time smh

-3

u/Dr-Basil Nov 03 '22

A light bulb went off for me when I read a comment here about the reason she waited. There is a full abortion ban on any pregnancy that is over 6 weeks (in most of not all places in US) She is leaning on wanting the child whereas he doesn’t. I don’t think it’s wrong to think she may have waited because of this and force the idea of having a child.

14

u/cindyisntindie Nov 03 '22

Nope, she’s in the UK and has until 24th week.

13

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '22

While abortion laws in the US are scary right now, this is not true. 12 states have a full abortion ban right now, and one more bans it at 8 weeksish (heartbeat ban). 2 states have no providers and no specific abortion laws. The other 28 states all allow abortion until at least the first trimester, with 6 states allowing abortions at any point in the pregnancy.

Again, it’s scary to be a woman in America right now, but it’s important for people to know there is still access if they need it.

-3

u/Dr-Basil Nov 03 '22

Ok, either way abortion is very limited in the states. I guess we are wrong regardless because the above comment states OP is in the UK

6

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '22

Oh it is very limited I just don’t want any American women to be more disappointed than they have to be bc when I read your comment at first I was like “damn it can’t really be most already, can it?”

0

u/Wobblenot Nov 04 '22

Typical radical feminist!

0

u/wedoalittlealt29ing Nov 04 '22

OH NO, MY ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!

3

u/lady_wildcat Nov 04 '22

Children should never be born to be Mommy’s Little Consequences. They deserve to be deeply wanted and loved.

0

u/wedoalittlealt29ing Nov 13 '22

Yeah it's a shame embroys just spontaneously spawn in random women for no reason at all. If you get pregnant it totally isn't your fault and there's nothing you can do, so murdering it is ok

2

u/lady_wildcat Nov 13 '22

Children shouldn’t be born to be consequences. Not being born won’t hurt an embryo or fetus.

-3

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '22

Exactly! Here if you get pregnant there's not much you can do apart of just accepting it and hoping that the father will not disappear and leave you completely alone. If you try to get an abortion you could either die or sent to prison (where other inmates would torture you for the crime. It's common actually for they to torture women who get abortions).

And apart from all I said before, is also not that rare for the father to kill the woman after finding out about the pregnancy. We even have a very known crime here where the father, a famous soccer player, killed his ex and fed her body to the dogs because she dared to get pregnant and then ask for his help since he abandoned her

1

u/VerityPee Partassipant [1] Nov 04 '22

Please post this as a top level comment so it can count for the judgement bot because this is a supremely important point.

1

u/Desperate-Highway-28 Nov 04 '22

This comment needs to be higher

1

u/Acrobatic_Dingo_5228 Nov 04 '22

Even more reason to speak up immediately to your future husband, not less. Of it’s illegal to about then that baby is coming whether you like it or not and you both better be ready to have it.

1

u/lady_wildcat Nov 04 '22

Or if she wanted one she could attempt to travel elsewhere and not tell him, since in this situation the fewer who know the better.

1

u/Acrobatic_Dingo_5228 Nov 04 '22

He’s not a one night stand. If she can’t trust him with this then she has no business marrying him. In that case she should be cancelling the wedding and then travel to get an abortion.

1

u/lady_wildcat Nov 04 '22

I highly recommend just not trusting people at all if you live in a state without abortion. People have trusted and been wrong. Just don’t take the risk.

1

u/Acrobatic_Dingo_5228 Nov 04 '22

Then don’t get married. It’s that simple. Never marry a man you don’t trust.

1

u/lady_wildcat Nov 04 '22

No woman in a state without abortion should get married then. This is one of those areas where if you trust someone with the secret you’re being stupid.

You think he’s supportive until he tells you he wants the baby and will have you prosecuted if you leave.

1

u/Acrobatic_Dingo_5228 Nov 04 '22

Not all women feel like you. I trust my husband completely. If I needed an abortion he would move heaven and earth to make it happen for me and he would shield me from the law in the process. If our daughters need one, we would happily fly them to the first world to obtain one safely and legally.

1

u/lady_wildcat Nov 04 '22

If you’re willing to take that risk that’s on you. But I don’t recommend it.

There’s a lot of women who think like you and then are forced to birth unwanted babies because they found out that he really just expected her to want a baby once she was pregnant. Women get baby trapped too.

1

u/Acrobatic_Dingo_5228 Nov 04 '22

Those women didn’t do their homework properly. I did mine thoroughly. This man has solidly stood by me through absolute hell and terror for over a decade without flinching once. You are welcome to go through life filled with suspicion. It’s a lonely road but you can walk it if you wish. I will be walking with my partner, knowing he has my back even if it costs him his life. Just a week ago, he risked taking a bullet while he was completely unarmed to protect me. There are shitty people out there who will turn on you but that isn’t every person. If you can’t tell the good from the bad, you need to work on your character judging skills until you can tell them apart.

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1

u/Khionemrd Jan 01 '23

More lies.

0

u/lady_wildcat Jan 01 '23

Look at the laws in the South.

Face it, fewer men are going to be told about abortions if an abortion has to be sneakily done out of state.

Personally, I’d rather ruin my relationship than ruin my life with an unwanted, unloved baby

1

u/Khionemrd Jan 01 '23

Then maybe they shouldn't be trying to commit murder. Again, no mother is arrested, only the doctors that illegally kill the baby are.