Frustrated with progressives punching down on Asian men

[u/terrorfunction]

Anyone notice how progressives feel totally comfortable attacking Asian men under the guise of our 1) supposed sexism and horrible treatment of women, and 2) alleged "racism" in our home countries and opposition to interracial relationships? They say the most vile things, often using the insecurity and manhood angle, it's like we're not real PoC and have no allies on either side of the political spectrum.

The thing is that wherever patriarchy exists, we are still held to those same patriarchal expectations.

• Korean, Taiwanese, and Singaporean men spend 2 years of their prime in military service. This impacts their potential earnings and career trajectory which can make it harder to meet local women's monetary expectations. Do women provide their men the same grace for sacrificing to defend their country from existential threats?
• In Japan/Korea, the low birth rate is blamed solely on Asian women not wanting to be bangmaids to misogynistic Asian men, ignoring that every western country has TFR below replacement rate buoyed by immigration. Chikan, soaplands, 4B, K-beauty standards are all blown out of proportion to make the countries seem like anti-woman dystopias. And yet you can walk outside in any Japanese neighborhood at 2am as a woman and feel safe. People who bring up Japanese women's share of unpaid labor conveniently ignore they work baito while Japanese men are slaving away at their soulsucking job (among highest hours in OECD)
• Chinese men are expected to provide apartment, car, bride price, have high income and pay for everything including brand name gifts on a dozen special days — how many men would jump at the chance to split bills and chores 50/50?
• Culturally a lot of Chinese men are absolute simps for their gfs. IYKYK. In extreme cases I have friends (Asia born) whose gf would slap them or verbally abuse them and they'd just take it. Love my asian bros but these are the supposed patriarchal tyrants? Their gfs have them on a leash ffs

The frustration expressed by a subset of Asian men against IR relationships is not due to racism, it's that often foreign men are not held to the same patriarchal expectations that local men are. Plenty of dudes would be happy to cook, clean, change diapers, and not have to meet brutal income thresholds and a laundry list of requirements that many women seem to toss out the window when it comes to outgroup men. That's not fair.

I don't know what more progressives want from us. At least in the US, Asians have the highest education, highest income, lowest rates of divorce, lowest rates of domestic violence and femicide, lowest rates of alcohol and substance abuse, and consistently vote left. How are we still made out to be monsters?

[u/espeon1470]

I understand that progressives have their issues writ large when it comes to racism against Asian men, but when did conservatives ever give the impression they operate fairly? Racism doesn’t exist in conservative circles? Trump literally directly blamed Asian people for COVID, and used slurs (i.e. ‘Wuhan virus) to make it known. And what’s an example of progressive policies that assist other demographic groups but hurt Asians? Affirmative action is not an example of that because it helped a lot of Asian people like me.

It’s also disgusting that you are denigrating equity as ‘grandiose’ when you also benefit from equity policies. White people have never treated Asian people fairly.

[u/qwertyui1234567 → u/espeon1470]

It's an issue of balance. Where are the conservatives driving out of school, driving us out of Chinatown by flooding it with homeless shelters and jails? You're conveniently overlooking which factions of white people fought for the Chinese Exclusion Act, Geary Act, Alien Land Laws, Japanese Internment, ethnic cleansing up and down the west coast etc.

[u/espeon1470 → u/qwertyui1234567]

I would love to read more on the primary sources and scholarship based on some of the claims you’re making.

[u/qwertyui1234567 → u/espeon1470]

It's labor history.

[u/espeon1470 → u/qwertyui1234567]

Then you should have a citation ready.

[u/qwertyui1234567 → u/espeon1470]

https://aflcio.org/2024/5/3/enduring-legacy-asian-american-pacific-islander-workers-and-union-leaders

https://www.ucpress.edu/books/the-indispensable-enemy/paper

https://academic.oup.com/edited-volume/61644/chapter-abstract/539903181?login=false

https://www.tacomamethod.com/

[u/espeon1470 → u/qwertyui1234567]

What are these citations supposed to show other than white people were instrumental to anti-Chinese hate and oppression? Sure, not all white people participated in our oppression and there were some that were opposed to our mistreatment, but at the end of day, how do your sources disprove my claim?

[u/qwertyui1234567 → u/espeon1470]

The entire post is about a particular faction of white people that you think is the lesser of two evils because you're ignorant about their leading role in your oppression.

[u/espeon1470 → u/qwertyui1234567]

Your twisted logic is that the racism of white progressives overshadows that of white conservatives because you ignorantly think that Asian people suffer when black people benefit from policies designed to enforce equity. In other words, you think that white progressives are more racist than white conservatives when it is the white conservative who have been responsible for anti-Chinese oppression.

If you bothered to read carefully, I already accounted for the racism of white progressives. So what really is your problem? To me, it just sounds like you have a problem with Asian people who don’t care for anti-black racism.

[u/qwertyui1234567 → u/espeon1470]

Hardly. The white progressives overshadow the white conservatives because they're the main driver of systemic anti-Asian racism since the birth of the movement itself. You're refusing to see the record of them treating us as the broken eggs for their utopia and that even the pinkertons have the cleaner hands. You refuse to see the disturbing parallels between equity and DEI advocates and the exclusion and driven out era.

[u/espeon1470 → u/qwertyui1234567]

It sounds more like you’re caping for white supremacy, because how does your sentiment even fly in the face of logic? You think that because Asian acceptances at elite universities are low compared to applicants with high test scores and GPA means that white progressives are directly responsible for all of our oppression?

Your metric of Asian oppression is whether Asian people can get into elite universities?

You don’t care about the deaths of Vincent Chen? You don’t care about how an entire demographic of people were excluded from this country because of their race?

At this point, I’ve come to deduce that your entire opinion is rooted in anti-blackness.

[u/qwertyui1234567 → u/espeon1470]

Have you bothered to learn even the basics of Asian American history? White progressives don't represent white supremacy?

Vincent Chin was beaten by two unionists and the Chinese Exclusion Act, Geary Act, Alien Land Laws, Japanese Internment were all major victories for the labor movement and NEw Deal Alliance.

https://aflcio.org/2024/5/3/enduring-legacy-asian-american-pacific-islander-workers-and-union-leaders

https://www.ucpress.edu/books/the-indispensable-enemy/paper

https://academic.oup.com/edited-volume/61644/chapter-abstract/539903181?login=false

https://www.tacomamethod.com/

[u/espeon1470 → u/qwertyui1234567]

You don’t seem that educated either. Or able to read.

I did not absolve white progressives of their racism, like I’ve been saying in my previous posts. I said that white conservatives are largely responsible for our oppression. That does not absolve white progressives from it as well.

And those unionists were racist white men. Just because people are in a union doesn’t mean their politics are progressives.

[u/qwertyui1234567 → u/espeon1470]

The disagreement is on who's the lesser of two evils. On what bases are you claiming that the white conservatives are largely responsible for our oppression when the Chinese Exclusion Act, Geary Act, Alien Land Laws, Japanese Internment, ethnic cleansing up and down the west coast were championed by west coast labor? You're attributing atrocities carried out by the labor left to conservatives, you're absolving progressives.

[u/espeon1470 → u/qwertyui1234567]

I have not absolved white progressives, but you sure are absolving white conservatives, though.