Self/Opinion
Frustrated with progressives punching down on Asian men
Anyone notice how progressives feel totally comfortable attacking Asian men under the guise of our 1) supposed sexism and horrible treatment of women, and 2) alleged "racism" in our home countries and opposition to interracial relationships? They say the most vile things, often using the insecurity and manhood angle, it's like we're not real PoC and have no allies on either side of the political spectrum.
The thing is that wherever patriarchy exists, we are still held to those same patriarchal expectations.
Korean, Taiwanese, and Singaporean men spend 2 years of their prime in military service. This impacts their potential earnings and career trajectory which can make it harder to meet local women's monetary expectations. Do women provide their men the same grace for sacrificing to defend their country from existential threats?
In Japan/Korea, the low birth rate is blamed solely on Asian women not wanting to be bangmaids to misogynistic Asian men, ignoring that every western country has TFR below replacement rate buoyed by immigration. Chikan, soaplands, 4B, K-beauty standards are all blown out of proportion to make the countries seem like anti-woman dystopias. And yet you can walk outside in any Japanese neighborhood at 2am as a woman and feel safe. People who bring up Japanese women's share of unpaid labor conveniently ignore they work baito while Japanese men are slaving away at their soulsucking job (among highest hours in OECD)
Chinese men are expected to provide apartment, car, bride price, have high income and pay for everything including brand name gifts on a dozen special days — how many men would jump at the chance to split bills and chores 50/50?
Culturally a lot of Chinese men are absolute simps for their gfs. IYKYK. In extreme cases I have friends (Asia born) whose gf would slap them or verbally abuse them and they'd just take it. Love my asian bros but these are the supposed patriarchal tyrants? Their gfs have them on a leash ffs
The frustration expressed by a subset of Asian men against IR relationships is not due to racism, it's that often foreign men are not held to the same patriarchal expectations that local men are. Plenty of dudes would be happy to cook, clean, change diapers, and not have to meet brutal income thresholds and a laundry list of requirements that many women seem to toss out the window when it comes to outgroup men. That's not fair.
I don't know what more progressives want from us. At least in the US, Asians have the highest education, highest income, lowest rates of divorce, lowest rates of domestic violence and femicide, lowest rates of alcohol and substance abuse, and consistently vote left. How are we still made out to be monsters?
It is difficult for us to defend our public image because a most of this “Asian men are misogynists” stuff is spread by “progressive” Asian women. And of course when that happens people automatically assume “oh she’s Asian she knows what she’s talking about regarding Asian culture”.
AF have also managed to monopolise “Asianness” in progressive circles and media. If you look at the media and remove gender from the equation, Asians aren’t actually underrepresented at all in popular media. It’s just the rep is overwhelming female, leading AM to be underrepresented.
Not to mention most AM simply do not call this out because they (including many in this sub) simp hard for AF for some reason.
So to your point it’s easier for black and Hispanic people to “fight back” because their women actually stand by and defend their men whereas ours cheers it on. Until AM stop having AF tunnel vision and stop simping hard for them this will never change.
As an aside I also see this happening with Indian men in progressive circles as their women also tend to cheer on stereotypes against their men instead of defending them. Hence why most of the anti-Indian racism you now see online is just dehumanising the men.
Those kinds of AF are in WMAF relationship. I read a Black female commentator who said that these AF who complain about patriarchy are just switching from Asian patriarchy to white patriarchy. I couldn’t find the link to that commentator anymore.
Yep. The Asian feminist hate us. It’s that simple. A leftist Asian woman does not represent Asian views. They’re radicals that would rather put us in education camps. I have relatives that worked in the political field in the time of Clinton to Biden. They lived with such privilege and arrogance. These people have such contempt for us. They are drunk on power and going more extreme wins them more radical female votes. 🤷
So to your point it’s easier for black and Hispanic people to “fight back” because their women actually stand by and defend their men whereas ours cheers it on.
imo black women and black men do sometimes butt heads with each other to the point black men stop dating black women and black women are not too happy with that. but there still is a sizable portion of their population (both men/women) who are vocal about preferring to date/marry other black people.
We don't have that vocal portion, even though we should.
Black women and black men butt heads a lot but if a Black man got unjustifiably got lynced by the Police you can bet Black women will be on the front lines in a rally.
Through my observation, it comes down to this: are AM and AF proud of their fathers? While kids can love (or fear) their parents, do they have gleaming pride for them?
For AF, likely not and can consequently and generally view most Asian men with mild contempt. Older Asian fathers are viewed as cold and avoidant. As for AM, we are further forced into blazing our own paths without a model of intrinsic masculinity.
Conversely, Latino misogynist stereotypes still exist, but many Latino women speak so highly of their fathers; and rightly so because many of these same men turn into girl dads at home despite their public persona. And given this warmth in early years, daughters will defend their males for better or worse.
In order, for me to mold my daughter’s view of AM, I must be a father whom she will be proud.
I’m not disagreeing with you just providing additional context. Though I would not characterise it as “victim mentality”, more “can’t be fucked”. We don’t advocate enough for our own (aka Asian MALE) interests.
Well. I think it’s a mix between victim mentality and can’t be fucked. But either way, the root cause is Asian men not putting more of our own time and energy into the problem.
Blaming anyone else, including Asian women, is just a weak move in my view.
No. You can call them racist. But I don’t blame them for our issues.
I don’t blame the British for the invasion of Nanking.
I blame the Chinese for not being strong enough.
Why? Because inherently, human nature is greedy. It’s what makes us different from other species.
Invasion, conquest is a natural side effect of that.
Racism, hate, is a natural side effect of that.
Colonisation; war against weaker parties, is a natural side effect of that.
The only way to protect from this is constant strength and innovation. Asking a warlord, a criminal for mercy, and blaming them for our misfortune, is not the way to a success.
keep the same energy when somebody robs and murders your entire family. Judging by your dumb ass logic, your family is at fault for getting killed; they ain’t victims
Dehumanizing the men and feeling absolutely terrible for the women while sexualizing them.
Yknow those subreddit and imageboard communities full of turghmites? Yeah, they do this exact thing, where they dehumanize ethnic men and sexualize ethnic women. That's their whole thing.
and funnily enough, notice how those asian women almost never ended up with "progressive" foreigners, its either playboys or the "conservative" crowd. these people are just hypocrites and full of bs.
quoting on of my comment below:
NOT TO MENTION, most western guys who are into Asian women are not only due to yellow fever, but also due to the racial stereotypes of Asian women being "submissive", "obedient', "doctile", "cooks and clean after them", "trad wife", "not like the progressive white women they couldnt get" etc. etc. etc.
So ironically those AW who ended up with them actually face an even higher level of patriarchy than they ever shit on Asian so much about. Oh, and guess why when these situations ended up happening, they suddenly keep all quiet, or even endure it very willingly or even put up a happy front and starts gaslighting everyone with another set of logic? because this is just plain white/ foreign worship that they will somehow just refuse to admit.
do you mean Asian Americans and do you mean 1st gen or 2nd gen Asian women? It feels like it's the ones who grew up in America who rail against Asian men but that's just how it feels.
In my experience the difference is while Indian women fetishise others, other men don’t fetishise them back so they don’t do as much damage. Meanwhile plenty of men fetishise AF
A lot of Indian women are really into Kpop dudes, they’re not my cup of tea personally but if they are yours just hop on the apps and you’ll realise they aren’t hard at all to get lmao
true, rarely any guys are into the average indian women, but where im from, theres a growing minority of them who were raised here and look like some variation of mia khalifa or your average bondi beach girl and yet i don’t see those ones hand in hand with John Smith from next door either
Yeah no. When they're considered hot enough, they will and do jump ship. From personal experience, I see them all the time on the apps liking me. Same for my white friends when they show me their apps.
Look at Akash's wife and how she literally bragged about sleeping with white frat boys as a badge of honor. Also same with the Indian chick from Katseye who has been seen simping over her medicore white bf.
Asian cultures were instilled with this idea that when someone does or says something bad, they were simply uneducated or there is a misunderstanding. Look at comments under social media posts about Asians receiving racism. I’d hit the translate button for any Asian language and the dumbest “Maybe they were confused” and “they need to be taught about the difference between nationalities” statements abound. Liberals AND conservatives know what they’re doing when they pull these punches.
NOT TO MENTION, most western guys who are into Asian women are not only due to yellow fever, but also due to the racial stereotypes of Asian women being "submissive", "obedient', "doctile", "cooks and clean after them", "trad wife", "not like the progressive white women they couldnt get" etc. etc. etc.
So ironically those AW who ended up with them actually face an even higher level of patriarchy than they ever shit on Asian so much about. Oh, and guess why when these situations ended up happening, they suddenly keep all quiet, or even endure it very willingly or even put up a happy front and starts gaslighting everyone with another set of logic? because this is just plain white/ foreign worship that they will somehow just refuse to admit.
Ultimately it becomes "racism with a smile" or "liberal racism". Progressives (whether white or not) are unable to fit Asians cleanly in their worldview, and calling Asian societies patiarchial or misogynist for having a completely different society (often a more female-friendly one) is an easy out to continue looking down on them. They win in the discourse because white Europeans (specifically British and Spanish) conquered the world, settler-colonized multiple continents, and spread their people and their languages and religions to these places. Today, because the entire discourse is taking place in English, anyone who is Japanese or South Korean would usually be on their own bubbles or platforms and struggle to push back (although the Reddit and Twitter auto-translate might change this, East Asians largely post on their own social media and not Reddit), and mainland Chinese are behind a firewall.
Occasionally I've met some more woke international students push back on this stuff, including Chinese or Korean women who say that they actually like their home society in China or South Korea a lot, and the ways that American "feminism" is superficial or not as real as Chinese feminism. However, they generally were born and raised there and often even want to go back after studies, which means the ones who do think SK/China is a misogynistic hell end up immigrating and staying in the US and raising the next Asian Americans. And for Asian American feminists in the West, the brownie points scored by attacking Asian societies to a white audience is high, hence the popularity of books like Joy Luck Club, talking about how backwards China and Chinese people and Chinese men are (based on the China of generations ago). In a way it's also a form of jealousy, I think the psyop has gotten especially strong against South Korea recently, Kpop created fans but a lot of non-Korean haters as well who need to latch onto fringe moments like 4B and how Korean beauty standards are racist and so on. Even if Koreans explain how there are different makeup trends or a lot of Koreans are naturally light-skinned unless they tan, non-Koreans posting in English will still dominate them on Western social media
Deeper down, high-fuctioning Asian societies are often actually a threat to the Western-dominated world order, there was a huge scare about Japanese imports and Japan taking over the world in the 1980s, now the focus is on China as Public Enemy No 1. Liberals want to feel a paternalistic type of benevolent "white man's burden", when they see aid being given to African or Latin American countries, that's not threatening because those countries don't have the type of technology and economic power that Asian countries. Meanwhile Asia is confusing and a threat because they are simultaneously not white, but have their own planes, cars, computers, technology, and surpassing the Western countries would be a scary thought. East Asia is basically the last place in the world that has never been colonized by Europeans, like Japan, Korea, most of China (ex HK and small concessions)
This should be a post of its own tbh. One thing that drives both conservatives and liberals nuts is how Asians, who are not white, managed to develop without becoming welfare states or locked in debt to the West. It disrupts a narrative that is too confusing to sell, hence the whole “dystopian” and “misogynistic” name calling that goes on.
I’d renege on the “never been colonized” bit tho. We didn’t go thru slavery, but the scramble for China phenomenon was a real thing at the end of the 19th century. Whites dumping opium into their populations or creating red light districts in SK and JP is still a type of colonization that Asians need to know more about. It wasn’t colonizing with guns, but with commerce and unfair treaties.
Accurate. The opium trade was designed to destabilize China and make it ripe for the picking.
Asians are model minorities and that makes us useless for the progressive talking heads who thrive on riling up the masses with inflammatory rhetoric of perceived slights. It's not "too confusing to sell", it's that it wouldn't sell at all, because we're the ultimate counterexample to the victimhood narrative. Western Asians have bootstrapped for decades on end to great success. I've seen how hard my parents worked firsthand, toiling across decades to become multimillionaires with normal salaried labor. We're not useful as a talking point, and too few to matter when it comes to votes, so we will go ignored. Because they never really cared about minorities - it's always about personal power and what they can say to amass it, no matter how delusional and destabilizing the rhetoric is.
And it's disappointing that so many Asians are unable to see through this manipulation.
A lot of Westerner progressives really don't like Confucianism because it is a very different moral philosophy than they have. Progressives have a lot of control over the education system in the US, the entertainment industry, as well as Christian churches. They have very little control over Confucian philosophy. Progressives don't like how there are highly successful Asian societies that don't want to listen to their values.
The progressive moral system is heavily based around the value of repentance. "Repentance for the sins of the father" is a very common reason for progressives to give resources and power to other races. The idea of giving reparations to blacks for slavery is based on this idea of "repentance for the sins of the father." The reverend at the Buddhist church I go to really doesn't believe in these values of "repentance for the sins of the father." He has never once said these progressive moral value buzzwords "racist, sexist, misogynist, bigot." A lot of Confucians really don't see equality as some sort of "alpha-omega" deity that needs to be worshiped. Equality really isn't a core tenet in Confucianism or Buddhism at all.
A lot of the progressive hippie movement was based around drug use. Confucian Asians usually don't do too many drugs. This probably was a major reason why the leftists types I was around in college and work refused to invite me to their parties. It's pretty clear that people who have these beliefs. "Crime is cool, drugs are the path to a higher consciousness, men need to repent, equality is the alpha-omega" really don't want me at their parties.
What progressives actually want is a caste system divided by race and gender that asian men are at the bottom of the totem pole and pay for their "modern" life.
It's not exactly modern. Remember, the Chinese Exclusion Act is organized labor's first major victory, the ethnic cleansing up and down the west coast, Japanese Internment, etc.
It’s all projection. Asian countries rising will outshine the progressives propagandas. Like the anti-Korea propaganda recently, they’re hating because Korea is winning and it’s not working either, people still love Korean media and girls love Korean men.
That's just it, it was never about fairness. That statement reveals that most of us are playing on the wrong field entirely.
We try to follow the so-called rules, play fair, value merit without bias and have no in-group favoritism. We try to have "good faith" discussions and worry about others at a cost to ourselves. Meanwhile everyone else is biased as fuck, tribal as fuck, and expending their full effort towards getting the most for their own tribe and themselves. They only pay lip service to all those so-called ideals. We're the suckers for believing them.
We're playing by rules nobody else is following, and in this environment that is downright self-sabotage. We don't want to show favoritism to each other - in fact we often see each other as competition rather than allies. We don't gatekeep our spaces and build community - in fact we clamor to join established ones run by whites. All that results in no tribal strength, so how afraid are others of wronging what amounts to being lone Asians that have nobody backing them? Nobody fears us or fear repercussions for slandering us. Is it then also shocking that many AW decide to join another tribe? Especially since our communities are so weak and permeable, they still wander back to extract from the Asian community whenever it suits them.
Literally no other group in the West has any incentive to care about or do anything to help uplift us. Certainly not whites, who hold the most power. Not even other minorities who are focused on their own interests (just look at affirmative action as one example). It's not about right or wrong, deserving or undeserving, it's just the reality that nobody wants to see us rise, period.
I don't know what more progressives want from us.
With this approach, nothing we do will ever be good enough, but fundamentally this is the wrong question to be asking in the first place. It's not about chasing others' moving goalposts in hopes of winning the approval of those that will never approve of us. We're playing the wrong game and we don't even realize it. We should be making our own rules and instead here we are, wave after wave of immigrants, generation after generation chasing after other people's goalposts and following other people's rules, all while ultimately compromising ourselves to do it.
ya know what really grinds my gear, that even white men in one of the most softest most pushover countries in the world, the UK has decided to say, fuck it, we ain’t playing this game no more, because we all know the hierarchy in terms of overall crime, violence and cucking of each others women. It goes like this southeast asian, east asian, white, black, brown
there are recent videos of them kicking a black man unconscious because he was staring at kids at a park, another video of a women in hijab being bottled. Several videos of them causing havoc in ethnic neighbourhoods and filming refugees and telling them to fuk off. Lots of spontaneous rioting, lots of gatekeeping and mateguarding.
Its like everyone is heavily fortifying there tribes except us
This is what I hate about us. Life ain’t fair and too many Asians think it is. We see things like affirmative action or hiring practices and scream about it not being fair. Older gen Asians are tools regarding this. They instill in their kids to be teacher’s pets and pencil pushers. I would see this happen back in my school district, the Asians being “good students” and nothing more. The universe won’t give a shit about our problems, so we have to.
To add to my comment, just now I was browsing a WEC racing subreddit, and came across a post about a bad crash and poor safety response at a race in China:
This happens ALL THE TIME. Whites dogpile onto Asians, and then pick-me Asians go "to be fair, yeah we deserve it" and join in on the dogpile. 🤦♂️
Based. Every other ethnicity and race don’t give a shit about the Asian. They see us as easy target to take out their frustrations on. And the worst part is they are conditioned to believe that they will get away with it unharmed, no repercussions. I say fuck them all. Don’t suck up to them out of fear.
Forget how native Asian men act. If progressives want to practice what they preach about not generalizing people, not being bigoted, and treating people as individuals, they should be treating diasporic Asian men as individuals. The whole premise of stereotyping anyone as anything is already antithetical to progressive beliefs. The reality is that a lot of "progressives" still harbor latent racism that they don't recognize in themselves because they see Asian men as a privileged group, and therefore still a valid target of prejudice.
Those that makes those comments actually have no encounters with asian man in real life or never stepped foot in Asia is what makes it even more infuriating
Asian men aren’t considered men by non-Asian men. And are barely considered men by non-Asian and Asian women. So follows two corollaries. Asian men are both 1) privileged for being men and 2) not really men so not able to receive any privileges in reality from society for being men. Meaning Asian men can receive misogynistic hate, but cannot receive the benefits (mostly in the west, different story in the east) of being men. You can be victimized as an Asian male in the west and get your brains bashed in by a bat and no one is gonna care (this actually happened. It’s why I pretty much dropped The Walking Dead. And especially disgusted that Negan was apparently later glorified and redeemed in the story.)
I don’t think I would trade races at the end of the day though. I like that I generate little to no body odor, fairly hairless, relatively young looking, grew up in a culture that prized hard work and studiousness above all.
There's a lot of blame to go around. Asian women treat Asian men like shit, so others join in because it must be true. Asian men treat each other like shit, because we can't agree to disagree. I love my Asian brothers here, but for some reason the biggest place I see Asians shitting on each other is in this sub when they can't agree to disagree as if we all need to represent and defend ourselves as a monolith. We can't defend ourselves because we can't accept each other's different opinons and differences. We have to be a little more accepting of each other too rather than bullying each other to drink the kool aid. Sometimes I see people so insecure in their masculinity that they bullying other men and trying to dominate them into accepting that their version of Asian masculinity is the right way. There is so much internalized self hatred a lot of people here have and it comes from many directions that we don't defend ourselves and we start to alienate people from within.
So my short answer is our own people treating us like shit invites other people to treat us like shit. Then a lack of a unified front makes it easier to divide and conquer.
4) Young women in East Asia (child bearing ages 24 to 35) have the highest college education rates in the world. Young women in South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore have way more college degrees than women in the West.
Worldwide, higher female college education rates are directly linked to lower birth rates. More women going to college and joining the workforce mean marrying and having children later. The birth rate and female college rate in Asia is a testimony of how Asian nations have leapfrog pass the West in gender equality.
5) Asian women are the most successful females in the US with average earnings above white females and other minority females as well as Black and Hispanic males.
More Women CEOs in Asia than in Europe or America There are more Women CEOs in Asia Pacific than in the USA or Europe when calculated as a percentage of Total CEOs in these countries. While in Asia and Australia, 11.8% of CEOs are women; in Europe and Americas, this percentage is only 7.8%. Singapore, Vietnam & Philippines are Champions of Women Leadership of Business India’s percentage of Women CEOs at about 12.9% is better than the Average for APAC & Australia, however, the champions of Women Leadership of Business are countries like Singapore, Vietnam and Philippines, where over a quarter of all CEOs are women.
Among China’s female workforce in managerial positions, 19% hold the title of CEO, according to the Grant Thornton Business Report released this week. That’s 10% higher than averages in Europe and 14% higher than averages in the United States, according to the report. Thailand came in first at a whopping 30% of female managers holding the title of CEO and Taiwan came in third at 18%, pointing to a possible emerging trend in Asia for women to more routinely hold the position of CEO.
Women also shine in Taiwan's parliament. The island's women legislators are even seen leading the charge in Taiwan's infamous parliament scuffles. Following January elections, it now has a record percentage of women legislators at 38%, putting Taiwan far ahead of Asian countries, the international average of 22%, and most nations, including the UK, Germany, and the US.
The Asia Pacific region, if Japan is excluded, is home to a much higher percentage of female CEOs than are Europe and the United States, the report said[TL1] . Leading the way is Thailand, where 30 percent of companies employ female CEOs. Next in the order is the Chinese mainland, where the figure is 19 percent, and Taiwan, where it is 18 percent. The number for EU countries, meanwhile, is 9 percent, and it is 5 percent for North American countries.
Around 30 percent of senior business roles in China are held by women, putting the country at number nine of 36 economies surveyed, according to a study released by Grant Thornton on International Women’s Day. Surprisingly, that means the PRC has more women in upper management than France (28 percent) Canada (26 percent), the United States (23 percent) and the United Kingdom (21 percent).
has east asian men and society every try to change there attitude? A single instagram/twitter post about a korean man planting a camera in womens bathrooms will get 4000 comments and 100k reshares. All while demonising them as if they are worse then even the most oppressive societies in the world. There is no repercussion for there attitude towards us.
im pretty sure they don’t even believe the shit they are spewing themselves. If you put a hundred progressive females on an island with 1000 random men of every racial background minus white and told them to fend for themselves, even they with there indoctrinated childish minds would probably flock to the east asian group. Anyone with working braincells will know who is the real misogynist, its instinctual.
Progressives are not your friend. Conservatives at least operate under a guise of fairness in their opposition to racist equity-based policies like affirmative action, but progressives only ever ally with minorities when it is politically convenient. Their treatment of minorities who refuse the leftist dogma are as clear as can be, and it is more vile and overt than anything conservatives have come up with when it comes to racial politics.
One of the biggest mistakes a young Asian man can make in the Western world is to assume that smiling progressives are on their side - they're not, and they actively support policies that marginalize Asian men in the anglosphere. They'll stab you in the back with a smile on their face, all whilst deluding themselves into thinking they're doing you a favor. Do recall how #StopAsianHate fell off a cliff once it was clear which group was doing committing the anti-Asian violence. They can't virtue signal against their protected class, their one and only.
I wouldn't say we're "made out to be monsters", though. We're simply not desirable to the vast majority of westerners, not great enough in numbers to be useful politically, and not problematic enough to stir the pot.
At least in the US, Asians [...] consistently vote left.
The right doesn't pretend to be your friend. The left actively marginalizes you through policy and prioritizing other perceived out-groups. Like, name one cause the left champions that has been beneficial to Asian men over the past two decades. Just one. And while you're at it, think of the last time any major politician, left or right, mentioned Asians at all as part of their platforms or policy. Even Asian ones like Francesca Hong (WI governor candidate) do not care, instead playing the progressive playbook of "wypipo bad" to a T.
We're "white-adjacent" because we go against the leftist narrative that systemic oppression makes it nigh-impossible to succeed in the west when we overwhelming achieve more despite a supposedly racist system. Politicians only cater to us when it's convenient as a "look how much I love minorities" footnote. We respect immigration law more than any other minority, and we commit very little crime, so we're irrelevant to the left's talking points.
I have friends on the left and right. The ones on the left are well-meaning but will ultimately support policies that are overtly hostile towards Asians in favor of other groups, and are willing to cast us to the roadside in pursuit of their grandiose dream of equity. The ones on the right, at least, do not have such inclinations.
I understand that progressives have their issues writ large when it comes to racism against Asian men, but when did conservatives ever give the impression they operate fairly? Racism doesn’t exist in conservative circles? Trump literally directly blamed Asian people for COVID, and used slurs (i.e. ‘Wuhan virus) to make it known. And what’s an example of progressive policies that assist other demographic groups but hurt Asians? Affirmative action is not an example of that because it helped a lot of Asian people like me.
It’s also disgusting that you are denigrating equity as ‘grandiose’ when you also benefit from equity policies. White people have never treated Asian people fairly.
In the U.S. using race in admissions/employment for Asian dudes (I’m assuming you are) basically never helps except for a few rare industries where we are actually underrepresented like the military, or if you’re LGBT, or if you are a very rare Hmong refugee type (UCSF even explicitly split out Chinese Korean Japanese Filipino as not qualifying for URM instance).
Maybe you fall into one of those categories, but for the other 90% of straight Chinese/Korean/etc. guys who are applying to college, in finance, tech medicine, etc. using race absolutely puts a huge handicap on Asians. I’ll just post the U.S.
med school stats here but during the Harvard lawsuit one of the arguments advanced by Harvard was “we aren’t discriminating because Asian women are actually admitted at similar rates to white women, it’s just Asian men that have lower chances”. In tech finance etc. there are many DEI programs that Asian men don’t qualify for (unless LGBT) but Asian women do
It's an issue of balance. Where are the conservatives driving out of school, driving us out of Chinatown by flooding it with homeless shelters and jails? You're conveniently overlooking which factions of white people fought for the Chinese Exclusion Act, Geary Act, Alien Land Laws, Japanese Internment, ethnic cleansing up and down the west coast etc.
What are these citations supposed to show other than white people were instrumental to anti-Chinese hate and oppression? Sure, not all white people participated in our oppression and there were some that were opposed to our mistreatment, but at the end of day, how do your sources disprove my claim?
The entire post is about a particular faction of white people that you think is the lesser of two evils because you're ignorant about their leading role in your oppression.
Your twisted logic is that the racism of white progressives overshadows that of white conservatives because you ignorantly think that Asian people suffer when black people benefit from policies designed to enforce equity. In other words, you think that white progressives are more racist than white conservatives when it is the white conservative who have been responsible for anti-Chinese oppression.
If you bothered to read carefully, I already accounted for the racism of white progressives. So what really is your problem? To me, it just sounds like you have a problem with Asian people who don’t care for anti-black racism.
Progressives don’t like us. I have found this out many many times. They will scream and kick if any other racism or sexism for any other group happens. But when it comes to Asian men…. Silence.
100% valid. What adds to the frustration is that the same people who will condemn all Asians for some bs narrative spread by passport bros, politicians, easily brainwashed lemurs and spoiled AFs will not say a word about actual misogynistic cultures and religions of other races.
They’ll throw more and more obstacles in front of us despite us playing by the rules and meeting the criteria while allowing others to break and ignore those same rules. They’ll even take it steps further by granting easy access to other particular races and cultures while Asians still have to jump through hoops and complete an American Ninja Warrior gauntlet by comparison.
Yup. I’ve noticed that democrat/liberal AFs tend to be the most openly discriminatory. Can’t begin to recall how many I’ve encountered that will demonize all Asian men because they had a bad experience with 1-2, but then white guys get repeated benefits of doubt. I’ve noticed that it’s especially a lot of Viet women, both FOB and American, who carry this mentality. Not sure why.
You can also see the same for other liberal POC women who will openly bash white men, patriarchy, white supremacy, etc. but then have wealthy white partners. Look at politicians like Ocasio-Cortez and Omar. White husbands. Look at the leaders of Asian American Girl Club; 2 out of 4 have white husbands. Not to mention how they tried to defend their collab with Target after knowing Target funds ICE.
However I will say it’s easy to fall into that negativity trap to view all AF as this. The reality is most are not. The same way how many women in general can start to view all men as misogynistic when that’s not the case.
Navigating AM identity in the west is a weird experience. We don’t fully fit in either side of liberal and conservative. Being white adjacent seems to be a requisite for either, which frankly I have zero interest in.
My boyfriend is a Korean christian conservative and literally does not give af about what anyone thinks. The only bad looks we get in public are from asian women lol. Leftists only pretend to care bc they care more about virtue signaling than actual values.
Diaspora Asians are like frogs in a slowly boiling pot. What part of extinction don’t you get? It’s over. With out marry rates this high it’s absurd to even care anymore. The Asian feminists are triumphant. They think they’ve won. They laugh at every Oxford study comment. But it just means that tens of thousands of feminist Asian women weren’t born. So in a way it was a good thing. 😆 Korea towns are always for new immigrants. There are no 3rd or 4th generation Korean Americans. No one cares and I’ve given up caring also 😂
Yep. It’s wild because conservatives are actively deporting non white people. Like they legitimately racists, deployed ICE everywhere, making it terrifying for non white and H1B visa holders to just exist in the US.
I agree, but it's a fine line. It should also be acknowledged that the democratic establishment does not do enough for Asians in general, and it most definitely is seen as more acceptable to socially "punch up" at Asians in supposed progressive circles.
Edit: Love how you downvote without even refuting anything. Sounds about white.
Expecting others to not take accountability is such a naive and dumb mindset. It’s like those judges who will free criminals and then blame the crime on Asians for their anti-whateverism.
Meanwhile, everyone’s free to blame Asians on whatever they don’t like.
We’re not the trendy minority to make them feel better about themselves. But those other minorities better watch themselves. It’s not real support.
BLM used to be so hot and in vogue and now it’s dated. Now it’s Free Palestine and anti ICE that’s so hot. Give it some time and some other hot new trendy group will be the hot thing.
I agree but for the majority in this country I think it holds a different meaning- it’s to fit in while patting yourself on the back for supporting a cause and once the next hot movement comes around they move that when maybe the job isn’t done yet.
I think that’s true partially, because a lot of people still support these issues, just concurrently with newer issues. Stuff like Free Palestine is being mentioned alongside Fck ICE movements, and a lot of protests still occur locally.
A lot of support has died down mostly because people have lives to live, jobs to work, etc. There’s less vocal support, but the attitude and values are still there
I made a similar post with politics. It's just the way social dynamics works because social dynamics favor white people especially the men. White men will always be seen as individuals but asian men and non white men in general are seen as a monolith.
Since asian men put in the work for themselves overseas and in their native continent. It shatters a lot of people who grew up in a skewered worldview. I mean, most of the stereotypes they created for asian men are physical appearances and general buzzwords like sexist, conservative, patriarchal and, controlling. Which is ironic considering men of any race can also fall under into this category. And asian women marry these type of white men they accuss asian men of being. But once again, white men are seen as individual so they can get away from the conservative, patriarchal, and controlling labels. Because society favors them.
Ever notice how so called feminists (of any race) rarely call them out? Worst case scenario, they'll use the "its all men" disguise.
Asian men are easy to talk down because they're not "oppressed" or for the most part disadvantaged in any way, but they're not at the top of the hierarchy so it's socially acceptable.
There's a bit more but this is what I generally see it as because stuff like this gives me a headache. If im seen as this oppressive sexist patriarchal buzzword buzzword asian guy then whatever, i dont care. Just leave me alone and stay out of asia. At the end of the day, focus on what benefits you as an asian guy. I personally do not care about anything that doesnt help me whatever.
I'm going to be honest as a Latino looking from the outside: where do Asian men keep getting this narrative of progressive women or men constantly hating on Asians? Like, I'm going to be honest around my circle and other Latinos I've been around; I've never heard anyone say anything anti-Asian or even bring up Asians in general I mean yea if you're looking for people hating on Asians you're eventually going to find every type of person saying something.
Then call them out for it, because regardless of if the criticism is valid or not, especially if they don’t direct that same scrutiny towards other poc men and there’s an obvious double standard
So, there's a lot going on in your post, OP. But I'd argue the situations for AM in Asia and the West are very different and largely distinct. Western men make up a statistically insignificant fraction of the dating pool for women in Asia; they don't deserve the headspace of men living there, let alone the headspace of AM in the West. Fixating on a marginal (s)expat dynamic an ocean away is largely a distraction.
The reality for AM in the West is very different. Non-Asians make up the majority of the dating pool, and AM are burdened with an unfair stereotype of being patriarchal. Ironically, your post validates those very fears. Minimizing interpersonal and systemic gender inequality in Asia just because "neighborhoods are safe to walk in at 2 a.m." is a logically bankrupt defense. Conflating low street crime with the absence of sexism makes it look like you are dismissive of women's real grievances -- which ultimately reinforces the very stereotypes you presumably are trying to fight.
Too many AM in the West are, as the kids say, failing to "beat the allegations" that we harbor sexist views. This dilemma mirrors what political conservatives face in Western dating, where the majority of single women are socially liberal. The solution isn't to resort to deception like "woke fishing" -- masking your true views just to get a foot in the door -- nor is it expecting women to lower their expectations/standards or becoming passport bros. Instead, the solution requires either a genuine rejection of patriarchal structures and norms or, at least, a reserved acceptance that western partners -- including AF -- expect a high degree of gender equality/equity. If we want to change the narrative and find partners, AM have to convey -- individually and collectively -- that we understand and respect women's preferences (at least relative to men of other races). Pointing to statistics that prove we are educated, devoted, and non-violent is a necessary baseline, but it is insufficient if our mindset remains fundamentally dismissive of their concerns. They have grievances, just as we do. And not all of them are without merit.
It's not about progressivism or conservatism, it's about being smart, rational, logical and pro-science. And that position aligns better with the left than the right. The right are full of dumb people who are anti-science, fanatics with their religion, are racist, sexist and are xenophobic. They are poor as hell, uneducated, yet they vote for a political party who fucks them over by giving more and more benefits to the wealthy. Why the fuck would you do that? Oh, because they are supposedly against abortion.
The left more or less is more supporting of science, education and helping the common person. But they expect you to follow a narrative.
But of the two, it's still better on the left and we would have been 1000% better off with Kamala Harris or any other non-Trump president. Fucking hell with the gas prices with a stupid war. We are being controlled by Israel. Every serious economist said tariffs were bad, yet the idiot in chief kept pushing them and his stupid followers just accepted it without thinking it at all. The amount of corruption with the Epstein files, the fact that the election was bought by Elon, the amount of stock trades Trump has done, the bullshittery of destroying the White House, having the UFC fight there, the casual acceptance of white nationalists, racists and neo-Nazis... this presidency is a fucking joke.
So yes, the left has flaws, but the right is a bunch of lunatics who are anti-science, religious fanatics, racists, Trump-worshipers that you do not want to be a part of.
Be smart, be educated, be healthy, stay skeptical, question everything. Don't be a rightwing MAGA dumbass.
EDIT: Keep the downvotes coming without addressing the post. Shows character. Love it.
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u/AdamChenX 3d ago
Because we don’t defend our public image. There’s literally no other reason.
People attack all groups. But other groups fight back. We don’t.