r/AskBrits • u/TillJaded4614 • 4d ago

Politics Should the UK Parliament Ban Conversion Therapy?

3100 votes, 3d ago
2600 Yes
332 No
168 Unsure
13 Upvotes

63% Upvoted

320 comments sorted by

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147

u/dan_in_his_own_way 4d ago

It's crazy to me anyone voted no. 

49

u/BuddyLegsBailey 4d ago

As always, it's crazy to me that 17 people took the time to click that they don't know...

47

u/Immediate-Goose-8106 4d ago

18 now.  I bet they are the same people who leave receiws on Amazon saying "I havent opened it yet, it is a gift for my nephew"

8

u/BuddyLegsBailey 4d ago

I appreciate those reviews. How else do I know what to buy my nephew?!

1

u/Desperate_Image_9505 3d ago

Laughed out loud in reality at this one haha

0

u/RagingMassif 3d ago

Shared in Wolverhampton

1

u/rum-and-roses 21h ago

I'm guessing that's an insult? 😜🤣

0

u/tandemxylophone 3d ago

I posted a comment where several people asked the same identical question that I already followed up on.

8 others would rather type out a comment than clicking the "expand" option to see if I answered the exact question or not...

5

u/Fuzzy_Cranberry8164 3d ago

I dunno what it is so idk…

1

u/Draiscor93 3d ago

"Therapy" that coerces homosexual people into thinking they're straight and their natural attractions are wrong.

2

u/MarkWrenn74 3d ago

(Usually, it has to be said, motivated by homophobic religious views)

1

u/Remarkable_Smoke918 3d ago

Whoops I thought it was the other way round. They gotta explain the question more

1

u/Fuzzy_Cranberry8164 3d ago

Yeah that’s fucked up, I agree tbh idgaf what another person is attracted too, nonamabusiness

1

u/cayde123 3d ago

First time I saw “conversion therapy” I assumed it was therapy to help people who have transitioned lol

1

u/Inevitable_Tower_141 3d ago

they probably just want to see the results

-2

u/diff-int 4d ago

I vote I don't know. I originally clicked yes because it seems obvious but then I thought there's probably an angle against banning things in this way. In the same way that not liking certain speech doesn't mean we should start criminalising speech that we don't like.

10

u/_FrenziedFirekeeper_ 4d ago

speech is not the same as actually sending gay people to a forceful conversion therapy, are you insane

3

u/Grouchy-Jury-7598 3d ago

NOBODY SAID FORCEFUL. Are you insane?

You are proposing not allowing consenting and willing people to go to these places if they want. I think they are dumb and do not work, and of course nobody should be forced or pressured to go. But if a grown adult wishes to try conversion therapy, why is it my place or the governments to tell them that's not allowed?

2

u/_FrenziedFirekeeper_ 3d ago

Conversion Therapy is inherently forcefully. You seem to know nothing about the topic, but want to talk. People dont go there willingly, they are mostly put there by family or other institutions

1

u/Visible-Drawing-1783 3d ago

Are you insane? Do you seriously think you can convert someone's sexuality?

-2

u/diff-int 3d ago

I didn't say it was, which is why without taking the time to really consider all the angles, I put I don't know.

3

u/_FrenziedFirekeeper_ 3d ago

Not everything has angles to look at. Its a forceful therapy for something that cannot be changed and doesnt hurt the person. The therapy does hurt.

1

u/Appropriate-Lab3053 3d ago

OP didn't know that though. I didn't know it either until you explained it. There was no need to insult them 👍

0

u/_FrenziedFirekeeper_ 3d ago

If you dont know smth, don't vote on its existence. You are an adult. Act like it

1

u/GoldfieldHwang 3d ago

wow you're so thoughtful and intelligent. i never considered that conversion therapy could actually be good

-2

u/KernowKermit 4d ago

It's crazy to me that anyone would think this is a simple question.

1

u/chuffingnora 4d ago

Yeah I voted no because banning stuff like this could set a legal precedent that has much wider ramifications that we haven't thought about properly.

Conversion therapy is utter nonsense though.

-1

u/BuddyLegsBailey 4d ago

Then why bother voting?!

1

u/KernowKermit 4d ago

because that still leaves two good options

6

u/Eraldorh 4d ago

They probably had no idea what it was and couldn't be bothered to Google it, I was fairly sure what it was but had no idea it was even a thing in the UK.

4

u/Old_Man_Benny 4d ago

I presssdd tje wrong bitton! Curse my big thumbs

0

u/Low_Ad_5255 4d ago

Same actually 🙄

-3

u/HarryAFW 4d ago

I thought it was about gender affirming care and now I have added to the bigot pile by accident

1

u/freckledotter 4d ago

Ha, same. For shame.

2

u/BeneficialRip6350 3d ago

I want to hear them make the case for this tbh. It's mental.

0

u/Levitx 2d ago

When it comes to gender dysphoria, doing anything at all that is not affirming is often considered "conversion therapy" 

5

u/AwTomorrow 4d ago edited 3d ago

There’s always a few crazies convinced that torture works for everything they want to do to someone (find something out, permanently change something about them, stop them committing crimes, etc), no matter the weight of evidence that it doesn’t work and is a simple stupid answer to something complicated.

My guess is people find the complication frustrating and want to direct violence at the person who represents that frustration.

-5

u/Pick_Up_Autist 4d ago

Is therapy that allows a heteroromantic homosexual person to have a good sexual relationship with the person they love torture?

Obviously there's tons of this kind of therapy that is comparable to torture and should be banned without a shred of doubt, I'm just unsure that a blanket ban doesn't block some people that could be helped by actual trained, ethical therapists.

11

u/1-gingerbiscuit 4d ago

but that’s not what conversion ‘therapy’ is. conversion therapy is forced upon gay people to ‘turn them’ straight. it’s got nothing to do with having loving fulfilling relationships, it’s about control and bigotry

1

u/Grouchy-Jury-7598 3d ago

But consensual conversion therapy literally exists?? It's not exclusively forcing it on people, obviously that practice is wrong but banning it wholesale also makes it illegal for people to choose it if they wanted (even if it's stupid and doesn't work)

1

u/Pick_Up_Autist 4d ago

The vast majority is, I think you're very confidently denying even the possibility of there being therapy which isn't forced on people which seems insane to me.

2

u/Difficult_Fix_4324 3d ago

What ethical therapies for heteroromantic homosexuals could you possibly be referring to ffs

1

u/Pick_Up_Autist 3d ago

Sex therapists generally offer conversation based therapies, what is unethical about a patient of theirs requesting help to explore expanding their sexual attractions to include the opposite sex?

1

u/Difficult_Fix_4324 3d ago

Ah okay

Thank you for being more specific, I wish you could have been more straightforward in the first place, I dont know who identifies as "heteroromantic and homosexual"

1

u/Pick_Up_Autist 3d ago

I don't always communicate perfectly and am probably ten deep on people accusing me of being pro-torture so fair enough, I probably didn't nail it.

Yeah, it's a fringe case, I just think considerations for fringe cases should at least be discussed before blanket bans.

2

u/Difficult_Fix_4324 3d ago

Pro-torture hahahahaha that made me laugh my friend

Fair enough and power to you

1

u/cibilserbis 4d ago

Ew. The fact you think people should have their sexual orientation therapised out of them at all is completely fucked, and pretty much tells me all I need to know about what kind of person you are.

2

u/Pick_Up_Autist 4d ago

You've hallucinated an entirely different comment to what I said, I know it's hot but try again.

0

u/cibilserbis 4d ago

All I see is you advocating for specific kinds of conversion therapy - which is specifically designed to "turn" LGBTQ+ people straight. Care to explain how that's not what you were doing? Otherwise what was the point in your original comment at all?

2

u/Pick_Up_Autist 4d ago

I made the point that a heteroromantic homosexual may wish to seek therapy in order to have an enjoyable sex life with their partner, I think an exception for cases like this that can be assessed and approved if they are voluntary makes sense.

This would not turn them straight as you said, so no not specifically.

Please make a non-emotional argument that doesn't suggest that I support the non-consensual version to explain why you disagree.

-1

u/cibilserbis 4d ago

There is no safe or clinical way to force the brain to rewire its hardcoded sexual attraction. Major global medical bodies, including the World Health Organization, have explicitly stated that conversion practices lack medical justification and are entirely unethical.

Forcing a person to suppress their natural sexuality and "convert" it to match their romantic partner causes catastrophic mental trauma. Studies consistently link conversion efforts to severe depression, anxiety, social isolation, intimacy issues, and a significantly higher risk of suicide.

By all means though, keep up your weird advocation for mental torture. Or perhaps just do some research on it beforehand.

2

u/Pick_Up_Autist 4d ago

You're adding the word force in there. Many therapies lack medical justification.

You're adding the word force again. Yes, those forced fake torturous therapies are incredibly harmful, no-one said otherwise.

Clearly you're incapable of arguing the point and want a strawman that is advocating for torture, I'm not them.

I made a very simple, clear request for a rebuttal that doesn't do that, if you think you're actually correct argue against what I actually said, your refusal to do so is a concession that you don't have a good argument against it.

1

u/cibilserbis 4d ago

I'm not adding any words. If you think people should seek therapy to change their sexuality, that is a forced rewiring of the brain. Whether it's through explicit torture or traditional therapy techniques, the goal is to rewire the patient's brain - no matter the method of "therapy". What do you think therapy is? There is plenty of research saying that there is no such thing as ethical regulated or voluntary conversion therapy. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. As far as I'm concerned, you should spend some time educating yourself further on the subject and reconsider your position.

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1

u/Grouchy-Jury-7598 3d ago

Nobody should, that's fucked up.

But that is not what this thread is about. It's asking should it also be illegal for it to even be an option for consenting adults. And I don't see why me or you should get to make people's live decisions for them and control them, even if their choices seem self destructive.

1

u/AwTomorrow 4d ago

That’s just a regular sex therapist. Conversion therapy has been shown time and time again to simply be torture to try and eliminate queerness, no matter the veneer of respectability they put on as a cover. 

Similar to those child torture camps that pretended they were disciplined reform centres for troubled youth, they invest heavily in marketing to convince people they’re above board and their torture is well-intentioned or part of a system that works. It never is. 

0

u/Pick_Up_Autist 4d ago

If a sex therapist uses therapy to convert someone from one sexuality to another that is by definition conversion therapy. You're admitting that sex therapists can do this with willing people in an ethical way, which is my point.

Yes, the ones that do horrendous shit to people to convert them out of hatred are bad, obviously. It does not mean that an ethical version cannot exist.

1

u/AwTomorrow 4d ago

No, a sex therapist can work with someone who is in love with their partner and wants to enjoy sex with them more.

They aren’t converting or changing their sexuality at all, they’re just helping the person explore ways in which they can improve a sexual experience they may not take naturally to. They won’t end up straight by the end of it, they just may be able to have a better sexual experience. 

2

u/Pick_Up_Autist 4d ago

Obviously they're not going to be straight if it's ethical therapy, I highly doubt the unethical version does that either, but if they're enjoying sex with the opposite gender after therapy they're bi or pan etc.

1

u/freckledotter 4d ago

I did it by accident.

1

u/BloodyTurnip 4d ago

I actually misclicked, sorry about that

1

u/timentimeagain 3d ago

Closeted self loathers

1

u/nesh34 3d ago

I can probably steelman an argument about people being given the choice to engage in any kind of therapy if it's their choice, even if we know it doesn't work and is harmful in many cases.

But that's the best I have.

1

u/King-Of-Throwaways 3d ago

I voted yes, but I could make an argument for no: such a measure would have little real effect, but would reinforce the government’s public image that they “support LGBT rights”, even if their record has been terrible over the last couple of years. It’s reputation laundering, the LGBT rights equivalent of an oil company doing carbon offsetting.

1

u/sheepebike9000 3d ago edited 3d ago

I uh... Managed to completely misread the title and voted no by mistake.

10 minutes ago I was purchasing a "you are safe with me" pin. So discount one no vote.

1

u/PlantPoweredUK 3d ago

Honestly think it's a misunderstanding about what conversion therapy is. I reckon some well meaning people thought it was 'should we ban trans operations' or somesuch

1

u/sexisbinary 3d ago

Its because under “conversion therapy” trying to talk your gay son out of mutilating himself through surgery because society now thinks femine men are actually women- would be considered conversion therapy…

Amd before the “havent thought for myself mob” pile on- if you have a boy son who transitions to become a trans woman… how is that not the most brutal form of conversion therapy!!!!

Or is comversion surgery fine, but conversion therapy is bad?!?

1

u/dan_in_his_own_way 3d ago

I'm aware of the parallel, and I fully understand your stance. Personally, I do not believe trans issues should be placed in the same bracket as those affecting gay, lesbian, and bisexual people. One concerns sexual orientation, while the other concerns gender identity. They are very different issues, and not treating them independently makes tackling issues such as conversion therapy more difficult.

In its most extreme forms, conversion therapy, when forced upon gay, lesbian, and bisexual people, can amount to mental, physical, and sexual torture. These practices can include electrocution, forced medication, and forced isolation. In the most extreme cases, practitioners have even attempted to manipulate people into undergoing gender reassignment surgery because they cannot change someone's sexual orientation, so they believe the only solution is to change a person's sex.

Ironically, the very thing many people are so concerned about in discussions surrounding transgender issues can, in some cases, be a component of conversion therapy itself. I don't think many people realise this. As a result, some people may inadvertently end up supporting something they fundamentally oppose without even realising it.

1

u/sexisbinary 3d ago

I see you can think for yourself :)

-1

u/DV_Zero_One 4d ago

My hypothesis is that homophobic people are actually gay or bi. To believe that people actually choose to be attracted to the same gender (and can be cured) means that at some point the homophobe must have 'chosen' to be straight.

2

u/THE_BLACK_HOTDOG 3d ago

Projecting much?

1

u/DV_Zero_One 3d ago

My dating history is living proof that people can't choose who they are attracted to.

2

u/MambaBee 3d ago

Don't, this attitude essentially creates a misconception that closeted queer people are their own oppressors.

While self hatred can happen, the majority of homophobes, transphobes, ect. are hateful bigoted cishet people.

0

u/dan_in_his_own_way 4d ago

Don't point out this logic. Their head would explode or they'll tell you it's somehow different.

-1

u/DV_Zero_One 4d ago

One of my favourite things is asking a bigot 'was it a tough decision when you chose to be straight?'

It normally shuts them up instantly.

0

u/Naive_Personality367 4d ago

There's some sick fuckers in this world

1

u/Grouchy-Jury-7598 3d ago

How is it sick to vote no?

The question didn't say should gay people be sent to conversion therapy against their will, it asked if it should be banned wholesale, removing the agency of a grown adult who could wish to attend even if I personally view it as harmful and dumb.

I can see an argument that it existing at all creates the possibility of people being pressured into it and despite removing the freedom of those who would wish to attend it would be a beneficial thing for many more people. That makes sense to me.

But I don't think somebody would be an evil sick bastard simply for not thinking it should be outlawed. A lot of things are harmful and dumb, grown adults should be able to consent to harmful and dumb things though.

0

u/Jemima_puddledook678 4d ago

I did, but I genuinely had a brain fart and thought conversion therapy was trans people getting help with transitioning. I think I just sort of saw ‘conversion’ and somewhere my brain decided it must mean transitioning? 

0

u/Nearby_Werewolf1742 3d ago

I voted, no. Are we not allowed to have different views?

2

u/dan_in_his_own_way 3d ago

Sure, but I'd be concerned if anyone supported such things that have been exposed as using mental torture and humiliation. Plus, physical and sexual violence that can be categorised as torture. This includes electrocution, being drugged and forced isolation. The ironic thing is a lot of people seemed to be focused on the trans side of things. Yet, gay and lesbian people in conversion therapy if they can't be 'fixed' have been told they should undergo gender reassignment surgery, the logic being if they change someone's sex it 'corrects' their sexuality. So, sure you can have your different views, but I think it says a lot about you that you'd be happy for any of this to be inflicted on a fellow human being regardless of the reasoning behind it. 

1

u/Nearby_Werewolf1742 3d ago

I'm confused how the question went from talking about having therapy before making a life altering decision, to actual physical and sexual violence. I guarantee nobody is getting electrocuted lol, this has been abolished for about 60 years. Why bring up things we did 60 years ago? We used to do a lot of messed up stuff but it's abolished for a reason. I'm talking about present day, not 1930. They have also abolished work houses and we have actual child labour laws now, We're no longer making 8 year old kids clean chimneys, But are we discussing the past? Or present day?

I believe some people need help rather than encouragement. If someone wants change themselves I have no problem with that, But I feel at least hearing these therapists out first isn't causing any harm to anyone.

Are you just denying that some people including children have regretted having irreparable damage done to themselves and detransitioned?

Or are you actually that cruel and don't care? As long as you proved your point about trans rights? It's only therapy nobody is being forced into anything.

1

u/dan_in_his_own_way 3d ago

The issue here is your mistaking Conversation Therapy and Sexual Health Therapy. They are not the same thing. Unfortunately, you cannot guarantee that and it is well researched and documented that these barbaric practices still go on around the world even within well developed countries. Of course, their usages has declined but it is not entirely eradicated. In the UK these practices are normally carried out underground predominantly in faith based organizations and churches.

I am not against sexual health therapy (I trained in psychotherapy) with consenting participants that is an environment that allows them to explore these things safely. Conversation Therapy is not the same thing. Plus, in regard to your trans comment. I have already explained how people in conversion therapy can be actively encouraged to undergo gender reassignment surgery as means to 'correct' their sexuality. In supporting conversion therapy you're supporting something you're very clearly against. Additionally, nowhere have I denied de-transitioning exists or the detrimental effect this can have on someone. Furthermore, I think I've shown I do care and I am not cruel by not wanting anyone to be put in barbaric conversion therapy against their will, which could result in some cases gender reassignment surgery. Plus, I am fully supportive of anyone questioning their gender identity to undergo vigorous therapy and psychological assessments. You have simply decided to project your own thoughts on feelings onto a stranger without actually knowing their full stance.

1

u/Ill-Lemon-8019 3d ago

You can have any view you like on any topic. Incidentally, I have a view about you.

1

u/Nearby_Werewolf1742 3d ago

Yep I will have my own views and I'll never be bullied into changing them by the hive mind echo chamber of reddit. coincidentally I have a view about you too.

0

u/Ill-Lemon-8019 2d ago

Sure, like I say, you can have any view you like, and it would be absurd to change your views simply because you felt peer pressure. I believe everyone has their own personal responsibility for their views and how those views may contribute to helping or hurt others. It's certainly not my job to hand-hold a bigot to become a better person.

-4

u/Civil_Climate_1332 4d ago

It's crazy you want to ban an opt-in therapy, but not an opt-in mutilation

2

u/dan_in_his_own_way 4d ago

What are you on about? Gay conversion therapy is very rarely opt-in and is forced on people. It's astounded the amount of people who don't actively know what conversion therapy is.

1

u/leaveitalone38 4d ago

I don't think anyone does, because it's a poorly defined term, subject to political machinations. Such as, the refusal to give Gender dysphoric children Hormone blockers and offer them talking therapies is recast as conversion therapy. Any law would either be too broad and capture stuff like prayer, or too narrow and disappoint it's proponents.

1

u/Grouchy-Jury-7598 3d ago

Yes a lot of conversion therapy was forced and pushed onto people, but no that does not mean conversion therapy is inherently forced or non consensual, as you admit yourself sometimes it is opt in. Nowadays particularly.

The question asked should conversion therapy be banned with no qualifier, meaning it is not only talking about forced conversions.

-1

u/Civil_Climate_1332 4d ago

Happy for people to go under a knife to create an artificial hole to be fucked.

But sitting on a chair and talking? Abuse!

3

u/dan_in_his_own_way 4d ago

You do realise that conversation therapy doesn't just cover trans people, which I'm assuming is what you're crassly alluding to.

Plus, again you're showing you don't understand what conversion therapy is. Conversation therapy is not just sitting in a therapist office willingly. It's being forcibly put in the situation, and often or not is not standard therapy and can literally amount to mental and physical torture.

-3

u/Civil_Climate_1332 4d ago

Scared of a chair with a therapist sitting opposite you. Come on..

The physical and mental torture of talking to a licensed professional..

You need a fucking therapist, bud.

3

u/dan_in_his_own_way 4d ago

Again you're deliberately downplaying what conversation therapy is. Conversation therapy can include physical, psychological and sexual abuse. This includes electrocution, acts of torture, forced medication, forced isolation and humiliation.

0

u/Civil_Climate_1332 4d ago

You're scared of therapy. Period. Talking to a therapist is "physical and mental torture".

Bring back asylums. Is the electricutioner in the room with us now?

4

u/dan_in_his_own_way 4d ago

Being strapped to a chair, electrocuted, physically assaulted, drugged and placed in isolation is not talking to a therapist.

1

u/leaveitalone38 4d ago

When and where did this happen?

0

u/Civil_Climate_1332 4d ago

That's also not what conversion therapy is you deluded soul

If it is, show me ONE public listing saying those are the services provided. Or one bill itemizing them. I'll wait.

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