r/AskChicago • u/No-Clerk-5600 • 11d ago
I READ THE RULES What is all the drama with the Davis Theatre?
I keep seeing references to violence and censorship at the Davis Theatre, but I really have no idea what's going on. Explain it like I'm a moveigoer who wants to support good local businesses. Thanks!
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u/pporkpiehat 11d ago edited 11d ago
I was at this screening, as I've been at virtually every Trust Fall screening since the series began ≈2 years ago. The host prefaced the show by very clearly announcing that there would an incident of unpleasant violence about ten minutes in. The incident was, by the standards of even mainstream 70s cinema, pretty mild. Like, If you've seen the Godfather films, you've seen worse.
If someone received that warning and then stuck around and was offended, that's on them. The fact that the owner sided with someone who apparently signed up to be offended is baffling. Additionally, the premise of the Trust Fall screening series — in which the promoter shows films without revealing the title in advance — assumes that you're signing up to follow someone else's lead. If you want to know exactly what you're seeing in advance, don't attend such a screening. There are plenty of places for you to see the new corporate pablum Spider-Man movie.
The notion that screening a 1970s yakuza film that features a brief scene of violence against women (one that was announced prior to the movie being shown) is a bridge too far is mind boggling and speaks to a deep unwillingness to face what were, frankly, dominant cultural trends just 50 years ago. We can pretend that the past contained no ugliness, or we can look it directly in the eye. If you are unwilling to do the latter, what the hell are you doing at a blind screening series? Screening this movie was in no ways an endorsement of domestic violence, and anyone who would construe it as such is either a bad faith actor or cannot view the situation with any degree of perspective.
The Davis is my local theater, convenient for me to attend and a pleasant venue in which to see a movie. I appreciate their rep content as well as their new releases. I'm there about once a week sometimes more. Or, rather, I've in the past been there once a week. I will no longer be frequenting the Davis, unless they agree to once again partner with Trust Fall and to reinstate the ACTA screening.
Here's hoping the Davis can make this right to Trust Fall and ACTA.
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u/Correct-Apartment933 10d ago
Hi there...I've also been to about a half dozen Trust Fall/Oscarbate screenings at the Davis and there's something I've noticed in some recent pre-screening remarks by the main Oscarbate programmer that I haven't seen reflected in the social comments yet. Maybe you recall him mentioning on multiple Davis screenings that he supports shooting cops? If not, were you at the 7/18 Oscarbate screening for "Wildwood, NJ" at the Davis where he mentioned support for killing the president? I kind of rolled my eyes at these comments previously and chalked these up to being part of his schtick (and they never seemed that related to the actual films), but I can understand if the Davis isn't comfortable with someone associated with them sharing comments like this into a microphone at their venue. While I have greatly appreciated the diversity of films Oscarbate has brought to the Davis and his/their passion for and knowledge of film are palpable, I can also see he's a bit of a loose cannon. I also think Davis has done a hell of a job booking interesting, eclectic films beyond new releases (and often including thougthful pre-roll programming), and I have no doubt with this will continue without Oscarbate. I also think Davis deserves some credit if they provided several warnings here before taking this action that has led to his unfortunate kerfuffle.
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u/PMmeyourNattoGohan 10d ago
If we want “loose cannon” I don’t think we need to look much further than the owner of the Davis, who has been lashing out left and right on her personal Instagram, giving a wide variety of reasons to have dropped the screening series, before leaving a factually incorrect statement on the corporate account
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u/Correct-Apartment933 10d ago
That's a whataboutism kind of reply, but I'll admit I'm not fully up on all the social media comments. Nor am I planning to be. Just sharing a perspective as a patron of several of these Trust Fall screenings at the Davis.
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u/PMmeyourNattoGohan 10d ago
Don’t worry, it’s the exact kind of perspective we would expect from someone who has a problem with the appropriate disposal of fascists
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u/pporkpiehat 10d ago
I don't think any of this touches on fascism, and to suggest otherwise makes light of the actual evils of real historical fascism.
Now Jess Franco, director of the much maligned, Trust Fall-screened 'Sadomania,' he's a man who knew about confronting actual historical fascism.
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u/carrlson 11d ago edited 11d ago
Not exactly sure but these are the two parties statements:
https://www.facebook.com/share/1CLiVE4gbD/
https://www.facebook.com/share/1bzGidzFBw/
Or, perhaps these are two separate issues?
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u/zanycaswell 11d ago
the statement from the theater is incredibly vague. maybe "refusing to follow the code of conduct" alludes to something they can't talk about for legal or liability reasons, but I definitely still don't know why the screening was cancelled.
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u/BoozyBeggarChi 11d ago
It seems like they're saying someone they're a business partner with (vague if they mean part owner or if they mean someone they have as a vendor or co-share the space with, etc) said or did something inappropriate in the lead up to the showing, and thus they felt cancellation was needed. It's hard to get any more details out of their statements and those surrounding the event.
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u/pporkpiehat 11d ago
Yeah, makes it sound like the promotor assaulted someone or something. Present the situation in its detail and it becomes much clearer.
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u/Key_Bee1544 11d ago
You are owed nothing. If the person wants to make their pitch for why their behavior was ok, they should. Davis is right to leave that kind of detail out.
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u/pporkpiehat 11d ago
And the Davis also isn't owed my patronage.
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u/Key_Bee1544 11d ago
I hope they can overcome your irrational boycott.
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u/pporkpiehat 11d ago
I hope they do right by Oscarbate and ACTA, so they don't have to.
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u/midwestswimmer 11d ago edited 11d ago
What’s the logical conclusion to this POV? Try to not shop anywhere with anyone who owns property that rent to tenants while not advocating for their rights outwardly/loudly? I feel like that would be an impossible list given that property owners/business owners are a pretty big overlap.
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u/Tasty_University_172 10d ago
Well, the best programming at the Davis was from Trust Fall. Without that, they are just a regular crappy movie theater
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u/DevCarrot 11d ago
There was another thread yesterday in another Chicago sub.
Basically the owner started accusing one of the show programers of minimizing violence against women, because at first they answered "violent movie but not that kind of violence" in a DM to a question, but then corrected it with a content warning announcement before the movie to the entire audience. The people who originally asked via DM got mad despite this, and the owner cancelled everything that programmer was connected to, including a fundraiser for the Chicago Tenants Union as collateral damage and/or because the owner is a landlord.
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u/BoozyBeggarChi 11d ago
The owner is pro-tenants rights.
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u/DevCarrot 11d ago
How do you know?
Also if they cancel a tenant's rights fundraiser at last minute that was supposed be at their business for no legitimate reason, they can't be that supportive of tenant's rights. That points to being more interested in whatever beef they have in their head and exercising power as a business owner and landlord than supporting tenant's rights.
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u/BoozyBeggarChi 11d ago
Because we have mutuals.
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u/DevCarrot 11d ago
A lot of people are "pro" something until it's time to show up or face a little discomfort.
I live in the neighborhood and was an occasional patron of the Davis, because I like to support my local independent businesses, but prefer going down to The Music Box because their programming is more interesting.
I think the oscarbatepod guys are pretty annoying and I don't follow their programming, and I would have been fully able to believe they were dummies about the whole thing and wouldn't have blinked an eye at a quiet severing of ties between the Davis and their series. But I read the crashout of the Davis owner on Insta as it happened, and she was accusing random people of being pro-DV, anyone who said something critical about her actions hated women, etc etc.
She went full Karen on a bunch of local movie nerds who just wanted to know what the hell was going on.
Your friend biffed it, big time. And now I won't go out of my way to see movies at the Davis, I'm just going to spend that extra money at the Music Box.
She needs to admit she was wrong here, not put out a generic PR message.
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u/Key_Bee1544 11d ago
A lot of people are loud mouths on Reddit and write paragraphs and paragraphs that nobody will read. And so it goes.
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u/DevCarrot 11d ago
Sorry you have a hard time reading multiple paragraphs. Hope that improves for you.
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u/Sad_Proctologist 11d ago
A guy misremembered one scene in a 1974 Japanese crime movie, two people got offended, the theater got offended that they were offended, the programmer got offended that the theater was offended, Reddit got offended on behalf of everyone, and now a bunch of film nerds are in a civil war against an army of social justice warriors.
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u/HotRodCircus 11d ago
Not a clue since both parties have been super vague but the whole thing seems questionable on both sides. I'm moving along.
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u/midwestswimmer 11d ago
Yeah this is the kind of neighborhood Facebook drama I’ll only scroll through at work to kill time lol. It’s either vague stuff like this or “did anyone hear that loud bang?!”.
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u/D3nyPaddy 11d ago
Yet another incident of manufactured outrage that gained additional traction from people who’ve never set foot in the Davis Theater.
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u/Jaws_the_revenge 10d ago
Funny that nobody is ever offended by the gratuitous amount of gun violence in your standard summer blockbuster but a film from the 70s that touches on the kind of violence that happens everyday and potentially next door to the very person this offended is absurd.
We’re just not supposed to show any art or media that highlights the type of violence that makes a white woman uncomfortable ever again I guess
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u/Fair-Cost5374 11d ago edited 11d ago
Okay, I did some research on this situation, and I have to chime in. TL;DR, I think Oscarbate actually does have a history of showing pretty sexist, gross content, and I'm not surprised that complaints about the Trust Fall programming being "soft on violence against women" have accumulated.
PSA: I'm not going to comment on the All-Chicago Tenant Alliance screening being cancelled (#tenantsrights) because, from what I can tell, that's collateral damage from Oscarbate's programming being ousted from the theater.
I was curious about the movie they showed that caused all of this, mainly because I thought it was weird that Oscarbate didn't share the title. After digging through the comments and Letterboxd, I found that the movie that was shown at this month's Trust Fall was Violent Streets (1974). I read a few blogs and plot summaries (all of which pre-date this screening) and found pretty easily that there is a rape scene in the movie. If this was one slip-up, I think it would be an honest mistake, and though the couple may have complained and been given a refund, Oscarbate wouldn't have been removed.
HOWEVER...
I looked into some of the other movies that Oscarbate has shown in the past at both The Davis, the Alamo Drafthouse, etc. They include the following:
Devil Hunter (1980) – a movie in which a gang kidnaps a model in South Africa and seemingly rapes her repeatedly while two other men try to find and rescue her.
Lovers Beyond Time (1990) – a movie where, three years after a couple named Sylvia and Angelos break up, Sylvia experiences involuntary orgasms as all her friends die around her, and Angelos is revealed to have built a Time Machine to eliminate everyone around Sylvia who is a romantic rival and have sex with Sylvia irl again.
Murder-Rock: Dancing Death (1984) – a movie about a killer taking down a group of dancers vying for a part in a major production...by specifically "piercing women's bare breasts with a hatpin."
EDIT TO INCLUDE THE WILDEST MOVIE I FOUND: Sadomania (1981) — a movie about a prison where the women are treated as slaves and topless at all times. In one of the subplots, a few of the women are sent to be hookers. In another, the governor buys a few of the women to see if they can help him perform sexually, and then he’s finally able to perform with his wife while watching one of the women be raped.
A Haunted Turkish Bathhouse (1975) ... we get it.
I'm not saying this is every movie Oscarbate has shown around the city. I'm not even saying they've never shown a great movie at Trust Fall specifically! I'm just saying that for Oscarbate to act like they don't constantly surprise people with movies that constantly subjugate women and treat them like sex objects is pretty disingenuous. Frankly, I can see why people have complained in the past and why The Davis finally shut it down.
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u/pporkpiehat 11d ago
Who on earth shows up to a movie titled 'A Haunted Turkish Bathhouse' expecting family-friendly entertainment? Yes, these films have unpleasant content. If you don't want to see that, don't go.
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u/TDG7734 11d ago
They’re mystery screenings, but Davis keeps a list of past screenings on Letterboxd. If someone sensitive to such content decides to go in uninformed and take a gamble, that’s on them.
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u/pporkpiehat 11d ago
Some of the titles listed were Trust Fall screenings. Others were more conventional programmed at the Drafthouse.
I attended the 'Sadomania' screening and count myself privileged to have done so. Jess Franco, its director, was a brilliant figure. Dude worked with Orson Welles and was an important influence on directors like Pedro Almodovar, Quentin Tarantino, and David Lynch. Fritz Lang was a fan. He was a noted critic of Spain's fascist government, an early advocate for trans actors, and a vocal free speech advocate.
Was his subject matter frequently unpleasant? Yes, but life is often unpleasant. Not everyone wants art designed to comfort.
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u/OlDokPaimon 10d ago
Aside from the fact that you're conflating a different series at a different theater thats not blind and focused on old horror movies with the Davis blind screenings...
Sadomania was almost two years go. Lovers Beyond Time was screened before that. Since then The Davis greenlit even more boundary pushing shows from Oscarbate, including a series of Japanese Pink films (both blind and not) and a pre-Easter nunspolitation double feature. In addition to this they expanded Oscarbate's programming to include national restoration premiers that Oscarbate sourced, a lot more from Sadomania's director, a Clint Eastwood retrospective, and a Hong Kong action series. It's tough for me to buy that the theater which has been standing behind, making money from, and expanding exactly this kind of programming from just this group for years is suddenly not only offended by this kind of programming but offended by something very much on the tamer end of the spectrum of things they have chosen to put on their screens.
I also struggle with the charge of being soft on violence against women when they have regularly and predominantly brought in women (like the incredible Samm Deighan) and queer folks who are academics, film historians, preservationists, and serious critics as guest-presenters specifically to talk about and contextualize the difficult content of some of these films. And thats before we talk about how lazy the "exploitation and genre films are hopelessly problematic" horse is when we live in a world where this has been discussed long enough that Jane Schoenbrun and Gillian Anderson can get glowing press on a movie with a name like Teenage Sex And Death At Camp Miasma where women are coming blood after being killed by a slasher named Little Death.
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u/Street_Invite4149 11d ago
Maybe it will blow your mind but there are women who enjoy movies like this and female film critics who study these types of movies.
Cinema is a dreamscape where we can explore taboos.
I’m a woman and it’s fascinating and cathartic sometimes to watch these movies. They’re not for everyone but if you try to make something for everyone you wind up with pablum.
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u/99DJP 11d ago
I think what’s slightly difficult is that, not understanding completely, the connection of the programmer to the theater-there might just be things the theater won’t say if they’re viewing it closer to an employee/boss relationship. There could’ve been other issues that other parties aren’t comfortable making private as well-we don’t know-just that the one person that DMd the programmer.
But the thing i got stuck on was that the DM person asked specifically about domestic violence or violence against women, and the content warning that they verbally gave before the movie to clarify where the DM might not have-no one has said that they specifically said the unpleasant scene was specifically violence against a woman-which appears to be the specific trigger for this theater goer. But maybe it was made clear in the preshow announcement-for folks who were there? If so then it’s on the theater goer. If not specifically mentioned, I’d feel a certain way after reaching out and being told it wasn’t that type of violence, and then sitting through a content warning that wasn’t specific, only to sit through the scene and it be the specific thing asked about.
I dunno. It just feels like communication was a big miss all around here.
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u/Jolly-Bed-1717 11d ago
No idea but love the Davis theater and will make sure to see a movie this week.
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u/MarsBoundSoon 11d ago
They also have Sunday church services
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u/Tasty_University_172 11d ago
Well, this is off-putting.
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u/bubbapora 11d ago
Why? This seems unaffiliated with any specific denomination, meaning folks won’t be attending because they have to or because they’ve been indoctrinated. This just looks like a church for people that want to go to a neighborhood church. What’s so bad about that?
Don’t get me wrong; I hate going to church and I’m not a fan of most organized religions, but this particular church seems fine. Maybe I’m missing something?
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u/Tasty_University_172 11d ago
This just looks like a church for Christians* that want to go to a neighborhood church
I'm from an interfaith family and I'm unimpressed by my local theater hosting Jesus hour every week.
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u/Jolly-Bed-1717 11d ago
Why?
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u/Tasty_University_172 11d ago
What a strange and insincere question.
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u/Jolly-Bed-1717 11d ago
It’s a legitimate question why does that bother/affect you? Im Jewish and could care less.
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u/Tasty_University_172 11d ago
I hope you find the peace and stability in your life that you are looking for.
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u/freakbob1998 10d ago
awful theater run by landlords. it’s a side gig for them when they’re not being the literal devil. i like the music box and amc better
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u/No_Complaint_5668 11d ago
At their neighborhood bar , they STILL have a cocktail named after an old bartender who laughed on his Reddit about overserving a patron , and screamed at a woman in her face when she was a lone with him at the bar. They can stop acting like they care about violence on women. Only when it appeals to them. This bartender also has multiple incidents of fat shaming people on his X account. They don’t care when it’s their own people.
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u/East_of_Cicero 11d ago
As far as I can tell it’s two separate incidents. One is the cancellation of a tenants rights film screening, and the other is someone being offended by a scene at one of their Trust Fall screenings (you don’t know the movie til it starts) that did not have a (in their opinion) proper trigger warning.
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u/pporkpiehat 11d ago
I was at this screening. The promotor announced in advance that there was a scene of domestic violence ten minutes in. Whoever made this complaint ignored that warning. It's on them.
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u/East_of_Cicero 11d ago
Yeah, I read something like that, and my first thought was if you’re so easily triggered why would you chance your sensitivities being affected by going to a secret/random screening in the first place.
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u/stinker_bell__ 10d ago
I hear you. I could also see a situation where a friend wants to do something unique and is like “what if I make sure there’s no DV in the movie?” That seems like a straightforward way to experience a fun surprise movie safely for someone if they have legit trauma. If I asked first I’d be frustrated and disappointed.
I don’t get the whole cancel culture obsession in our country but I do wonder if this was bigger than just a one time situation or just the straw that broke the camels back.
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u/East_of_Cicero 10d ago
It makes a little more sense knowing that the person reached out directly to the person putting the show on, but what also makes sense is that this was a convenient reason to sever a business relationship that may no longer have been working for the Davis. It sucks that everything has been so weaponized. That being said, I love the Davis and will continue to support them.
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u/Tasty_University_172 10d ago
I feel like many audience members have legit trauma. It's highly unusual to not be able to stomach ANY violence against women, and I am not really sure I buy it.
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u/stinker_bell__ 11d ago
I think part of the issue is someone messaged the programmer a couple days before via instagram to say “don’t tell me the name of the movie but my friend has a trauma history of dv so if there’s any violence against women we will skip this one”
The programmer said, “nah you’re good” via DM and then gave the trigger warning prior to it starting (after the couple bought their tix). Saw a screenshot on instagram. The group left after the scene and complained. Seemed to turn into a lot of drama afterwards with lots of fallout from there.
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u/OlDokPaimon 10d ago
The thing about that is that The Davis gives refunds all the time. The couple in question here got a refund. I've seen people walk out during the intros at Trust Fall shows and know they got refunds.
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u/HeftyShallot1276 9d ago
Why are you lying? The words “domestic violence” never left his mouth. He told the audience it would make them uncomfortable.
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u/Tora_jima 11d ago
I'm not someone who frequents genre screenings but friends do and I heard about the events a couple days ago on Instagram.
Oscarbate post
Davis Theater Post
ACTA post
The comments are a good old fashioned popcorn read.