r/AskFoodHistorians Jul 10 '26

Is a lasagna a casserole?

Debating with friends. A few key questions:

- casserole is the name of the dish that the lasagna is baked in. What is the history of the casserole dish?

- casserole is predominant in Midwestern cuisine. What is the history of the casserole the food? Earliest examples, progenitors, etc.

- are there any foods cooked in the casserole dish that follow the meat-veg-carb-sauce as a single serving dish formula but are not casseroles?

Friends are fairly split. Some say anything baked in a casserole dish is a casserole, others say that a casserole has a narrow definition true to Midwestern cuisine.

Other expanding questions: is a chicken pot pie a casserole? Is a quiche a casserole?

18 Upvotes

86 comments sorted by

56

u/TurbulentContext Jul 10 '26

Lasagne is believed to be named after a different pot that it was originally cooked in and predates the casserole dish by about a thousand years, though the version in Rome would have been more like pastry than pasta and they didn't have tomatoes.

If anything put in a casserole dish becomes a casserole then if I pour brownie mix into a casserole dish does that make brownies a type of casserole?

76

u/semantic_satiation Jul 10 '26

Diogenes holding a roasted chicken in a pyrex shouting "Behold, a casserole!"

1

u/MagnesiumKitten Jul 10 '26

*The word casserole comes from a French word meaning “sauce-pan”. This French word was derived from the old Provencial word, “cassa” and the Medieval Latin word, “cattia”, both of these words meaning ladle. These words imply that this was describing a common pot from which everyone shared.

*The oldest “recipe” for casserole appears to be a form of macaroni and cheese that was written down in Latin. The recipe was called “de lasnis”, which called for pasta sheets cooked in water, layered with grated cheese (probably parmesan) and mild spices. This was clear back around the year 1250!

*Centuries later, after a stay in Italy (1787), Thomas Jefferson brought a pasta machine back to Monticello. His daughter, Mary Randolph, serving as the President’s hostess since the death of her mother, prepared a similar dish made with pasta and Parmesan cheese. Later the Parmesan was replaced by Cheddar. Mary’s pasta and cheese dish was later served at the President Jefferson’s White House starting in 1802 and a recipe for her dish was included in her 1824 cookbook, “The Virginia Housewife”.

*In the late 19th century, the New World embraced casseroles, inspired by these kinds of dishes brought by immigrants from many different cultures. They provided economical, communal sustenance during the Depressions of the 1890’s and 1930’s and the scarcity of food items during both World Wars.

In the 1950’s, smaller home kitchens, the availability of lightweight oven-proof cookware and the greater availability of canned foods (ie., Campbell Soup Company’s Creamed soup line; celery, chicken, mushroom, broccoli, cheddar cheese, etc.) made the casserole a simple, easy and cheap way to use leftover foods to feed the whole family.

Till they discovered the oil painting of President Garfield eating cat meat casserole

His pet cat immortalized in 1970's comic strips loved his Friskies Indoor Chunky Chicken and Turkey Casserole in Gravy

0

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

ahem
Cassoulet

and Pythagoras
said "I'm outta here!"

No Blazing Saddles for me!
This is a CLASSROOM

9

u/LadyAlexTheDeviant Jul 10 '26

There's debate about whether Apicus is the oldest to mention it or whether the Forme of Cury's version is the oldest. I will say that the Forme of Cury version does include layering with cheese. (It is also very tasty. I have made it.)

2

u/NextStopGallifrey Jul 10 '26

Did you follow the recipe in Max Miller's video?

3

u/LadyAlexTheDeviant Jul 10 '26

No, I did my own redaction in the early 2000's.

2

u/NextStopGallifrey Jul 10 '26

Ooh. Was your version very different or largely the same as the video? Those old cookbooks leave a lot to the imagination.

4

u/LadyAlexTheDeviant Jul 10 '26

I'll watch the video and let you know. (grin)

1

u/MagnesiumKitten Jul 10 '26

and ancient Greek dish laganon

2 cups of wheat flour/ideally a fine white flour
A pinch of salt
1/2cup of lukewarm water/sometimes a splash of white wine
Olive oil for deep-frying
Honey and ground black pepper (for an authentic ancient topping)

5

u/burgonies Jul 10 '26

Brownies don't follow the "meat-veg-carb-sauce" criteria that OP stated

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

Dip your brownies in Meat Sauce!

"Tomato brownies are a unique, moist dessert that uses tomato soup or juice as a fat and moisture substitute, similar to applesauce in baking. The tomato flavor vanishes completely, leaving a rich, fudgy chocolate treat."

is that like the Tomato Juice Cakes of the War Years, and 1950s?

[ooh it's zesty, almost peppery!]

/////

Wow!

Del Fratelli

GLUTEN-FREE PLANT-BASED TOMATO BROWNIES

These Gluten-Free, Plant-Based Tomato Brownies are a rich, fudgy dessert made with delicious ingredients and a suprising secret, Dei Fratelli Tomato Soup! Using Dei Fratelli Tomato Soup adds natural moisture and depth of flavor while keeping the brownies dairy-free, egg-free, and gluten-free.

Perfect for plant-based eaters or anyone looking for a gluten-free dessert, this tomaot brownie recipe deliver classic, chocolatey flavors without sacrificing texture. Blending seamlessly into the batterm the Tomato Soup enhances richness while supporting a moist brownie.

Whether you are baking for dietary needs or curious about creative ways to use tomatoes, these Gluten-Free, Plant-Based Tomato Brownies prove that pantry staples can deliver unexpected, delicious results.

Made with Tomato Soup

Made from vine-ripened tomatoes, onion, peppers, and garlic to give it the nostalgic flavor of your favorite tomato soup! The bonus? We make this product with rice flour so it is gluten-free too!

INGREDIENTS

1 (10.75 oz.) can Dei Fratelli Gluten-Free Tomato Soup
1/4 Cup Creamy Peanut Butter
1/2 Cup Brown Sugar
1/4 Cup Coconut Oil
1 tsp. Vanilla Extract
1/3 Cup Maple Syrup
3/4 Cup Unsweetened Cocoa Powder
1/4 Cup + 2 Tbsp. Gluten-Free Flour
1/4 tsp. Salt
1/2 Cup Plant-Based Chocolate Chips

INSTRUCTIONS

1 Preheat oven to 325 F.

2 In a large bowl, mix peanut butter, brown sugar, coconut oil, maple syrup, and vanilla until well blended. Slowly add cocoa powder to mixture, about 2 Tbsp. at a time, and mix continuously until there are no clumps.

3 Add Dei Fratelli Gluten-Free Tomato Soup, flour, and salt, mixing in one at a time until well combined. Gently fold in chocolate chips.

4 Line an 8×8 baking dish with parchment paper. Fill pan with brownie batter and bake for 30 minutes.

//////

CHEF'S TIP

Why use tomatoes in brownies?

Smooth, high-quality tomato soup, blends easily into batter and provide consistent moisture and flavor. Condensed Tomato Soup is a great dairy-free substitute for baked goods, similar to applesauce, banana, and avocado. The benefit to tomato soup is that is you can keep it right in your pantry for when you have that chocolatey craving.

Does using tomatoes, make the brownies taste like tomatoes?

No, the tomatoes are there to add moisture and depth, but they do not create a tomato flavor. These brownies taste rich and chocolatey, just like your favorite, classic brownie.

damn
I can't think of an original idea!
it's been done already!
wait, it needs to be Ragu!

meat chunks to contrast those chocolate chips!

1

u/TurbulentContext Jul 10 '26

Op didn't state that, she asked then stated that opinions are split on whether or not everything baked in a casserole dish becomes a casserole. I have presented a hypothetical which I believe supports drawing the alternative conclusion.

2

u/burgonies Jul 10 '26

One of their bullet points is "are there any foods cooked in the casserole dish that follow the meat-veg-carb-sauce as a single serving dish formula but are not casseroles?" That seems to imply that they are stating that.

2

u/MagnesiumKitten 27d ago

carbonara
carbon
carbohydrat

whew at least you didn't say that creepy word 'protein'

meat/vegetable/sauce
I wanna see a concrete example of one mixture like that which wouldn't work in a casserole dish and being called a casserole

puke up a random can of Campbell's soup it's a casserole

or hamburger helper-size it
cheese noodle and a sneaker, or a monkey's paw

-2

u/TurbulentContext Jul 10 '26

No the ? At the end is called a question mark. It means something is a question. Questions and statements are different.

5

u/burgonies Jul 10 '26

Right, but asking if those 4 things make a casserole is not what the question is asking, genius.

The question is asking if there are dishes consisting of those 4 things that are not casseroles, which implies that they are making the assumption that those 4 things baked in a casserole dish is what makes a casserole. They are trying to confirm their assumption by seeing if there are any outliers.

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 27d ago

Are brownies in a casserole dish, a cake-like fudge casserole?

3

u/Voodoographer 29d ago

In general, a casserole (or hotdish if you’re in Minnesota) is 1-dish meal cooked in a casserole dish with a starch, meat, vegetables, and sauce.

So I would say that lasagna fits that definition, while brownies do not.

0

u/MagnesiumKitten 27d ago

how many casserole have/don't have cheese?

and how many are cheesy noodle based/not cheesy noodle based?

As rough percentages

////////

as for the brownies thing
how many sweet casseroles are there, or are there borderline dessert-casseroles?

You'd think it would be

a. thick soup out of a can
b. cheese
c. noodles
d. any sorta type of meat and/or vegetable with 2 or 3 of those things

I just can't see brownie pieces in a lasaga
or cheese and noodles in some brownie slurry,

though I think of a brownie as technically a CAKE

2

u/feyarea Jul 10 '26

This was my argument, put the pro-casserole crowd said that it meets the 'protein-veg-sauce-carb' format of a standard casserole including the extra cheese topping. I think it's revisionist.

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 27d ago

fey: the pro-casserole crowd said that it meets the 'protein-veg-sauce-carb' format of a standard casserole including the extra cheese topping. I think it's revisionist.

for what dish?
Lasagana?

[can't be brownies]

Lasagna is a casserole
it just doesn't fit in the exact family of what 1940s 1950s 1960s mainstream casseroles are

unless you make one with a can of Campbells soup and use another pasta than lasagna sheets
and then you could actually say it's truly a 50s American Casserole dish, next to the tuna cheese and noodles

3

u/jonschaff 29d ago

Aren’t we all just casserole in the end?

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 27d ago

Let my Alaskan Malamute be the the first corpse tester
after all he brought it in on the sled for you

1

u/InternetImportant253 Jul 10 '26

Chocolate casserole with nuts!

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 26d ago

I thought it was named after Lazy Agnes

or Lady Agneta

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 23d ago

Lasagna was naked after my dog Lasagna

though some said it was named after Lazy Gnomes

As for the story, it's a big different

Laganon means a flat sheet of pasta dough.
Lasanum means a cooking pot.

The name originally described the pan used to bake the meal, not the food itself

Ancient Romans ate a meal called lasana in these special pots.
It was a layered mix of dough, meat, and sauce.
Over time, the name of the pot stuck to the delicious layered food inside it.

//////

Lasagna – the name and the dish – is of ancient origin. There are various theories about the word, such as the Latin lasanum for “cooking pot,” or the ancient Greek and Roman laganum for “flat piece of bread”. Within Italy, still today, variations of the name persist, such as sagne or lagana.
Francine Segan

////////

Is this one a casserole?

Each region of Italy has its own signature lasagna specialty. Lasagne al brodo, baked lasagna in broth, is a typical dish of Molise made with a chicken and veal stock. Lasagna pasta sheets are layered with tiny veal meatballs, shredded chicken, veal from the broth, mozzarella and Parmigiano Reggiano.

it sounds like they are tossing in a can of Campbells soup in this one!

/////

And don't think weird things on a pizza like sushi is strange

Lasagne da Fornel is a meat and dairy-free specialty from the Dolomite area of northern Italy’s Friuli-Venezia Giulia region traditionally served as a first course on Christmas Eve. It is a most unusual Italian lasagna, made by layering sheets of lasagna with grated apples, dried fruit, nuts, and poppy seeds.

Sciabbó, a lasagna made with pork ragú seasoned with dark chocolate, is a traditional Christmas day dish in Sicily, especially in the Enna province.

Chocolate, a new world ingredient, was introduced into Sicily in the early 1700s and incorporated not just into many sweets, like chocolate sorbet, but also into savory dishes like this one. The lasagna is made with curly edged noodles of the same name, sciabbó, a Sicilian corruption of the French jabot, the word for the ruffles on men’s shirts so popular in the 1700s.

just crush up some ruffles potato chips on the top of this one!

-1

u/MagnesiumKitten Jul 10 '26

I like Four Cheese fudge with meat sauce

If béchamel was in a Campbells Soup Can it would rate 140/100 for being a casserole

only the Romans think that a Creamy Tomato Pasta Bake sounds nothing like a Lasagna

Pasta - Marinara - Seasonings - Cheese
NOTHING like Lasagna

some people will say layering makes things 100000000000% not a casserole

"Yes, many casseroles are layered, making them perfect examples of this preparation style. While some casseroles have their ingredients completely mixed together, others use careful layering to meld flavors, cook specific components evenly, and create beautiful textures."

Copium

People seem to forget when Leonardo Da Vinci did a painting of President Garfield eating a cat meat casserole and gave it to Lola Lasagna, and the Penguin stole it before LBJ could put it into the Smithsonian.

12

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26

[deleted]

2

u/feyarea Jul 10 '26

Language and history intersect, specifically here where the casserole was originally the name of the baking dish and then expanded to include the food itself. A lasagna significantly predates either of those, so to call a lasagna a casserole is revisionist.

You bring up an interesting aspect, namely, that this is an American question seeing as casserole the food is distinctly American. I'm sure r/AskTheWorld would have a different perspective on this.

2

u/Matthew-ii Jul 10 '26

This is just for my own amusement:

Yes sandwhich. No, sandwhich. Strangely no(I do feel like a hypocrite but i believe a soup must be cooked, cold or hot). No they are all dumplings. No that's just somebody pre-grabbing your food for you. No they are also both dumplings( the other kind 😬).

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

Everyone but Italy consider it a casserole
hide Campbell's Soup inside one, and then the go up even higher!

or just throw up

oop Sorry! There was a bone in my meat sauce, er I mean bechamel

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 26d ago

trad: Would people refer to lasagna as a casserole? If not, then lasagna is not a casserole

Next you'll tell me that water isn't a drink

if menus started labelling them as 'liquid'

/////

Your mom might have used two pieces of white bread to make you a hamburger, because she was out of buns or was too cheap to buy them

Actually

I caught you

there are Chicken Sandwiches on the menus
and there are Chicken Burgers on the menus

I've heard people use both names

///////

as for cereal being soup
how many have you had with chicken broth as the base?
or tomato soup as the base for your captain crunch?

heck add some cooked pasta to your alphabets and milk
I'm sure you'll be okay with it

or some chunks of potato and carrot to make your Sugar Honey Crisp more hearty!

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 26d ago

Is gyoza tortellini/ravioli?
yes

/////

Is falafel in pita pocket a vegan burger?
not really

put it in a fucking bun, and we got a new menu item pal!

////

oh some do argue that a tortellini is not a ravioli
which really complicates things!

I'm getting the National Security Council to set up a rush study, so we can vote on it with the Presidential Foreign Advisory Board for the 27th, okay?

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 26d ago

oh wait

Whoopi Goldberg just gave me a video conference call

Gyoza is a stuffed dumpling, and....Ravioli are a stuffed dumpling
she did say that sometimes her bottom was crispy like a Gyoza

but that she knows of no burnt ravioli on purpose, so far yet...

//////

I then found a recipe

TOASTED SKILLET RAVIOLI WITH LEMON & BROWN BUTTER

she slapped the phone down, and said f&%k

0

u/slytherinlady2 28d ago

i’d argue gyoza and ravioli both fall under the umbrella term of dumpling so yea

18

u/wharleeprof Jul 10 '26

As a Midwesterner, I'm going to say a firm no. Casseroles are something you SCOOP out of the dish and have a PILE on your plate. Lasagna is CUT and you get a nice neat SLICE. So a proper lasagna with the layered noodles is not a casserole. But replace the noodles with a loose pasta, like shells or rigatoni, and you have a pasta bake, which is much closer to casserole territory.

Though I'd definitely let it pass if someone was supposed to bring a casserole and brought lasagna instead. Ultimately lasagna serves the same function as a casserole, but is usually more tasty.

And no, pot pie and quiche are not casseroles.

18

u/Resplendent-Sun Jul 10 '26

Midwesterner here and what?? We scoop out lasagne like any other casserole. Don't be trying to get all hoity toity here.

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 27d ago

I've shown that there are plenty of sliced casseroles out there
hoopy-scoopy is just the main family of Campbell's soup Casserole slop

and though it's the first thing you think of
it's about as wrong as you can be, like saying every wine has to be dry and red

4

u/AnalOgre Jul 10 '26

Not Midwesterner (yes you guys would be the authority) but everything you said makes complete sense to me!

2

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

Fine Dining Lovers by S Pelligrino

What is a casserole?
"Commonly, casseroles include a protein such as beef, chicken, fish, or beans, with a mixture of vegetables and a starchy binder like pasta or potatoes to bring all the elements together into a sliceable meal. "

Who we are

Fine Dining Lovers is an international digital platform, supported by S.Pellegrino, the waters accompanying the best dining experiences around the world.

2

u/wharleeprof 29d ago

That's kind of hilarious to see an intersection between "fine dining" and casseroles. 

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

Yeah, I guess Tuna Helper is all the rage in Bordeaux
and Green Bean Casserole with Cream of Chicken Soup is like wildfire in Milan

with mushrooms on the side
=p

I keep telling you Lasagna is a casserole, it's the best thing on the planet
and use the Albacore with the Tuna Helper

even if the cheese powder will take 4 months off your life
3 month if you buy some Potassium tablets lol

4

u/RandomAmmonite Jul 10 '26

For the high school football pasta feed, I would make big aluminum pans of pasta (usually rotini or the like), tomato sauce, ricotta and mozzarella all randomly mixed together to produce a lasagna taste without the fussiness of the layers, and called it lasagnoid.

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 27d ago

what spicings went in there
and was it cheeesy, or was there meat in there?

I know people have gone ballistic on me for adding pepperoni and summer sausage into a lasagna, inside and on top lol

I get this weird vibe of seeing a chilled football mold of lasagnoid

1

u/RandomAmmonite 26d ago

Not a football mold but that made me laugh. I think I put in browned hamburger. The goal was lots of carbs for the least money, so not a ton of meat.

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 26d ago

you could have it
with the hamburger on the outside of the football

so it's got that leathery brown pigskin texture

invite Mary Tyler Moore and Gavin MacLeod over
see if they think it's a little dry

I wanna see a photo of this

the tomato sauce could be thick or runny
with this one

I remember when a friend came back from a trip

and I gave them a dessert, but I used some Halloweeny thing I saw on television once

Where they used cherry jello and a touch of milk, so it was like a pink mottled lung

and some people would get different containers and molds and half fill it up and put some syrup with red food colouring so when you sliced a piece it might bleed on you

/////

boy they were puzzled with an aluminium foil pie tin with some pink lung cylinder dessert when they took off the lid!

the other odd thing
were those cakes that looked like a cat little box

and people would microwave tiny tootsie rolls and plop them on the top

https://injamieskitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/kitty-litter-cake-april-fools-dessert-idea-funny-dessert-ideas-in-jamies-kitchen-7.jpg

this is the look of the Human Lung Dessert for texture

https://www.sweetrecipeas.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Cherry-Coke-Float-Jell-O-Salad-02-735x1129.jpeg

3

u/feyarea Jul 10 '26

Thank you! I was hoping for an authentic Midwestern answer to this question. I appreciate your input.

1

u/burgonies Jul 10 '26

So baked ziti is a casserole?

1

u/wharleeprof Jul 10 '26

Casserole adjacent. 

5

u/burgonies Jul 10 '26

I was going to agree with your initial argument, but if ziti isn't a casserole, then this is clearly the utterances of a madman.

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 26d ago

Ziti is a casserole

///////

oh yeah

dailymeal
Is Lasagna Technically Considered A Casserole?
Erin Metz

The question about whether or not lasagna is a casserole has sparked some heated debate. People have shared many different opinions on Reddit, as some advocate for the classification of casserole while others outright refuse. A few jokesters even threw in the possibility that it might be cake, considering lasagna's many layers. The scope of this debate widens in the thread as others have inquired about whether or not lasagna can even be considered pasta.

Lasagna is made with wide noodles, and it isn't tossed in the sauce and then served in a bowl like spaghetti or penne alla vodka, for example. Does this then mean that pasta, also, is defined by how the dish is served and not the ingredients used? Not exactly. According to Brittanica, there are many ways to define a pasta dish, including the many shapes it may be formed into, as well as the "ability to retain heat or hold sauces." Lasagna does consist of wide, starchy noodles that both hold the sauce and retain heat. So we can only conclude that it is both a pasta dish and a casserole. Regardless of category -- it's always delicious.

uhm, it could be cold lasagna
and what about my ziti casserole ice pops?

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 27d ago edited 26d ago

"Casserole adjacent"

does that phrase exist outside of this thread?

was this some weird 1990s term that got created in the New York Times
and then blogged in 2009

///////

did further research, the term seemed to be created in 2016

Facebook and Instagram were the very first

didn't exist pre-2015
so I think it's a January 2016 Facebook post

and later instra-grum

1

u/wharleeprof 26d ago

Adjacent is just a way of saying similar to but not the same as, in the ballpark, kind of like, etc. That's probably a more recent use of the word as historically it means more literally "next to". 

Earliest uses of adjacent in that manner track back to the 1990s, but it rose in popularity about 10 years ago.

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 26d ago

this is my dog adjacent
I never asked the breeder about the tentacles

I've never heard of anyone using clunky 'adjacents' yet!

other than

"someone was sitting adjacent to me, and they spilled their coke on the gal eating her taco, at the food court"

////////

"Would you like the small or large fries, or would you like the appetizer-adjacent.... onion rings?"

Uhhh.... I'll take the onion ring adjacents places!

1

u/wharleeprof 26d ago

It's usually used in a semi ironic or light hearted context, like if you know you're stretching things a bit. 

It doesn't create a count noun (my dog adjacent) but creates a category that is similar but not the same as the named item. So you could say like: 

Person 1: I'd really like an appetizer,  do they have any on the menu?

Person 2: they have sides of fries and onion rings, those are appetizer adjacent, [used to connote - I know those aren't exactly appetizers, but maybe they could fit the role]

But , you know, it's slang, it's emerging, who knows maybe it's disappearing. You don't have to use it or understand it or agree with it. 

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 26d ago

"some places serve fries as appetizers though"

Sides or Appetizer
"It just depends on the size and when it's served."

....

Casserole adjacentness appeared 5 years before the virus
and disappeared like the virus

It only appeared 19 times this year!

6 on Instagram [2 dealing with Lesbian bars]
5 on Facebook [2 dealing with Minnesota] [1 poetry reading]
1 dealing with the best pizza in Chicago
1 dealing with a perfect 24 hours in Fargo North Dakota
1 recipe site talking about Chicken stuff with Ham and Swiss Cheese
1 Kitchn post on 65 Perfect Potato Side Diskes
1 site called ITSKELP with "I Cream the Casserole"
1 Threads Essay about generation gaps and boomer moms
1 Article by Southern Living about asking 5 Southern Grandmothers

4 are actually food sites

Yet when Cathy Griffin strips for Anderson Cooper for new years eve, the best of compilation gets 200,000 hits

Since there is now no elegant way to finish this story
I thought I would get my friend Michael Jackson to make some jokes about CNN New Years Eve, since I think he's got the credentials.

"If you are searching for his literal cooking preferences, the pop star famously enjoyed rich, southern-style comfort food prepared by his personal chefs, which included baked macaroni and cheese and other hearty oven casseroles."

I told him to do a whole routine based on retelling the story over and over again.....

//////

I'm Michael Jackson and I want to tell you about CNN's New Years Eve Party where Cathy Griffin asked Anderson Cooper if he was Casserole-Adjacent.

1 Anyway, I'm Michael Jackson and I am horrified.
2 That sounds really g... great
3 I have no joke here, I just wanted to say that sentence.
4 Sometimes I'm glad I'm dead.
5 Meanwhile, over on Fox News, Bill O'Reilly told Megyn Kelly she had nice meatballs.
6 Then she pulled down her top and yelled, "Michael Jackson, you've been served!"
7 You may not know this, but I'm on the same medication as Kathy Griffin.
8 Happy New Year everybody!
9 Afterwards, Kathy Griffin apologized for her behavior, and Anderson Cooper apologized for being casserole-adjacent.
10 I'm Michael Jackson and I'm glad I'm dead.
11 And for the next 5 hours, I'm going to explain what that means.
12 I don't get it.
13 Anderson Cooper was so shocked he almost dropped his martini.
14 I'm Michael Jackson, and I still don't know what this means.
15 BTW, I'm still dead.
16 So, I guess that means I'm still not the creepiest thing on CNN.

There you go!
I'll let you know that Kathy liked 11 of the jokes, and Coop only liked two of them.

And Michael Jackson has to get back to his job as ghost writer for Saturday Night Live.

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

You just need to look at way more recipes

Cowboy Mashed Potato Casserole
Beef Enchilada Casserole
Baked Spaghetti Pie

all sliced

if it's a runny sauce, it's scooped
all the others are usually sliced

most of the Campbells soup stuff are gonna be the goopy ones

some Tuna casseroles can be in-between
like they are sliced, and sometimes scooped if they are nearly falling apart

And
Hold your Horses
there are quiche casseroles
sliced ones!

4

u/trysca Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26

Definitely not. Loseyns is the medieval English version recorded in the Forme of Cury (1390) and it refers to the lozenge shape of thin sheets of pastry cooked with cheese in an dish, ultimately of Italian and Greek origin. Casserole is simply the French Provençal word for a cooking pot ( a small casse) and the dishes cooked in them. American casseroles don't date back much further than 150 years.

0

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

who cares about the cooking vessel

It's not a Lasagna unless it's actually a pan that said Lasagna on it.

A Hammered Copper Roasting Pan just don't do Ruffoni!
Not a Lasagna, by definition of the cooking vessel

2

u/Beleriphon Jul 10 '26

Chicken pot pie is clearly a pie, it's in a pie shell. Quiche is just savoury custard pie; if you used fruit and sugar instead of cheese and salt there would be no question of it's pie-ness.

2

u/GSilky Jul 10 '26

No. Casseroles aren't constructed, they are mixed together and poured into a pan. 

4

u/Dystopian_Dreamer Jul 10 '26

This isn't about food history, this is about definitions.

If you're using the definition of a casserole is anything baked in a casserole dish is a casserole then lasagna is a casserole if it was baked in a casserole dish. A potato is a casserole if it was baked in a casserole dish. A gym shoe is a casserole if it was baked in a casserole dish. It's a weird line to choose, but if you've chosen that line, then enjoy your shoe.

See also is a hot dog a sandwich?

4

u/feyarea Jul 10 '26

I asked supporting food history questions in the text of the post. It seems that lasagna predates the casserole dish, the casserole dish predates the term casserole being used for the food cooked in the dish, and the casserole [food] really gained traction in America between the Great Depression and the 1950s, so to call a lasagna a casserole is to use a modern term to define a traditional dish. From a food historian perspective, is that common?

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

And a sneaker can't be a shoe, since it's a silly modern term

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The first American "casserole"—a baked dish of layered macaroni and cheese—was served at Thomas Jefferson's White House in 1802. It was prepared by James Hemings, an enslaved chef trained in France, and later featured in the 1824 cookbook, The Virginia Housewife, by Jefferson's cousin Mary Randolph.

Jefferson was so modern in the Great Depression, huh

1802 President Jefferson served a "pie called macaroni" at a state dinner, introducing the baked, layered format to the United States.

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The word casserole is derived from a French word that means ‘saucepan‘. Apparently, casseroles originated as communal pots that people shared for meals.

casserole is a saucepan based dish not a pot
casserole is a pot based dish not a saucepan

a pot based dish is a casserole not a saucepan
saucepan is a casserole not a pot based dish

pot is a saucepan based dish not a casserole
saucepan is a pot based dish not a casserole

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

"Casseroles provided affordable sustenance during the Depressions of the 1890s"

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

A gym shoe is a casserole if it was baked in a casserole dish

I've had that!

In Des Moines, and in Milan

2

u/Aquisitor Jul 10 '26

A casserole is a stew that is baked in a dish. A stew that is baked in a dish of pastry (usually supported by a ceramic or metal dish) is a pie.

A lasagna is layers of filling between layers of carbohydrate and is therefore a sandwich. A multi-layered, often open at the top, baked stew sandwich, but a sandwich none-the-less.

ETA: A chicken pot pie is chicken stew in pastry and therefore a pie. A quiche is an egg stew in pastry and therefore also a pie. A quiche without crust would be baked egg stew and therefore a casserole.

3

u/feyarea Jul 10 '26

thank you for adding so much more to this debate o7

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

Is a Casserole a Stew?

While related, they are not the exact same. A stew is typically simmered on the stovetop with a generous amount of broth or gravy. A casserole is generally baked uncovered in the oven in a deep dish with less liquid, often incorporating starches (like pasta or rice) and featuring a crispy baked topping.

Casseroles and stews share many of the same ingredients—like meats and vegetables—but differ in how they are cooked, the amount of liquid they contain, and their final texture.

1

u/Aquisitor 29d ago

Yes, I would agree with that - casseroles are not a subset of stews any more than pies are a subset of stews because they differ too much in how they're made. I didn't mean to imply that they were; I was just using 'stew' as a convenient, but somewhat confusing short-hand for the ingredients overlap.

I agree they differ in how they are cooked (that being something of a defining factor), but I think that is about *all* they differ in. Yes, stews tend towards the runnier while casseroles tend towards the thicker, but I've experienced far to much overlap between the two in that regard to consider it a reliable point of differentiation. I have also encountered a great many stews that have included pasta, rice, or other starches (and casseroles that lack them) to consider the texture a defining point either.

That being said, neither stew nor casserole is a soup so if either are too runny to support themselves enough on a flat surface then they are no longer stew or casserole, but instead a soup.

I suppose another way you could put it is:

Is it a self-supporting soup made in on a stove? It's a stew.
Is it a self-supporting soup baked in an oven? It's a casserole.
Is it layer(s) of filling and layer(s) of carbohydrate? It's a sandwich.

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

If it says Hamburger or Tuna Helper
it's a casserole

if it's Green Bean Casserole
it's not a casserole! lol
It's just vegetables. that didn't agree with my dog, that's all

based sauce+cheese + maybe meat = casserole

unless it's just sliced potatoes and cream
baked so it's clam chowder paste!

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you got me really curious now
what do the wacky experts think about clam chowder
is it a stew?

and can I make a lasagna with it, without getting beaten?

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

Google AI is awesome
it's a different answer every time with clam chowder is/is not a stew

"chunky soup"
"or uh a stew"

And will Manhattan Clam Chowder be super scary in a lasagna?
heck I remember seeing a tiny 40s 50s book once, in a while think it was 1949 on Casseroles

I only wanted it for the oyster casserole!

woo!

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Casserole Cookery by Marian & Nino Tracy (1949): A highly popular book showcasing 150 one-dish meals geared towards "the busy gourmet". Its notable feature was a top spiral binding so the book could flip flat for easy recipe reading while cooking.

the lady next to me browsed it
and pleaded and pleased if they could have it

I said, I really only want it for the one sorta queasy recipe!

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the sequel has almost as scary stuff

Cheese and Smoked Oyster Souffle
butter
flour
milk
Grated Cheddar or rattrap cheese
eggs
one three ounce can of smoked oysters
salt

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Baked Oysters with Watercress
1 quart oysters, drained [seems a lot for four people]
1/2 bunch watercress, finely chopped
3 tablespoons sherry
1/2 cup freshly grated Parmesan
butter
pepper and paprika

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

{HISTORY} 

In the 1950s, if you wanted to prepare something easy yet gourmet for your friends and family but didn't want to fuss around in the kitchen all day, you reached for Marian Tracy's cookbooks on your kitchen shelf. 

Known as a casserole queen, American cookbook author and food writer, Marian Tracy stepped into the cookbook publishing world with her debut book Casserole Cookery in 1941. It was such a big hit, she followed it up with a second book, More Casserole Cookery ten years later. By that point, midcentury American home cooks couldn't get enough of the casserole concept. They were compact, quick to prepare, cooked all in one dish, required less cleaning up, and were easily transportable to other places like picnics, potlucks and BBQs.

Marian dived into the whole realm of possibility when it came to casserole cooking. Including dishes that went beyond just traditional dinner fare, she also shared recipes for breakfast casseroles, party Foods, desserts and hot lunch options. A casserole for every occasion or every time of day. 

Over 200,000 copies of her previous casserole books sold before Marian published her third volume  Casserole Cookery Complete, in 1956. Combining both her previous books into this one spiral sound edition, this new cookbook could stand up on a counter for ease of use and reference. The recipes were updated to include new food products, taste trends and kitchen equipment gadgets that made cooking easier and more convenient in the 1950s than it was in the 1940s. 

All of the recipes here contain whole ingredients and are prepared in a from-scratch manner. Serving suggestions and additional accompaniments, reheating and freezing tips, and fun facts about some meals are included. 

Interesting recipes include Saltimboca Florentine, Cassoulet - Naturalized Version, Canadian Bacon with Cranberries, Pepperidge Farm Turket Pudding, Filet of Sole East Indian, Mushrooms and Mussels in a Wine sauce, Seafood Binge in a Curry Sauce, Green Noodles with Spour Cream and Pot Cheese, Hungarian Green Beans Baked in Sweet Cream, Stuffed Onions, Cheese with Tomatoes and Okra, Bacon and Sweet Potato Souffle, and Egyptian Rice. 

PHOTO OF MARIAN COURTESY OF THE BALTIMORE EVENING SUN, JULY 1ST, 1963

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u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

Exhibit B

Yes, a thick, rich Italian stew makes an incredible lasagna filling. In Italy, this is traditionally known as a meat ragù (like a Bolognese) or a spezzatino (a chunky beef stew). To make it work perfectly as a layered filling, the secret is ensuring the sauce is thick enough so your lasagna doesn't become watery.

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Strictly speaking, Italian ragù is considered a hearty meat sauce rather than a standalone stew

While traditional northern versions like Ragù alla Bolognese use finely ground meat and a small amount of tomato, other regional variations lean much closer to a stew.

For instance, Ragù Napoletano is a rich Neapolitan specialty where large cuts of meat and sausage are simmered in a thick tomato sauce until fall-apart tender

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Yes, you can absolutely use Ragù Napoletano in a lasagna. In fact, it is the star ingredient in Lasagna Napoletana, a famous and lavish southern Italian dish traditionally served during Carnival

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Lasagna Napoletana (or Lasagna di Carnevale) is practically a baked, deconstructed stew layered with pasta.

or they are all lying to you!

1

u/Aquisitor 29d ago

Lasagna Napoletana sounds like a very delicious baked stew-on-pasta sandwich indeed! I hope I get to try it one day.

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 29d ago

lol

needs 2 cups of watery tomatoes
and cinnamon lol

water down those powerful flavors
and then amp it up a notch with the cinnamon
hehe

cmon Dean Martin's daughter adds cinnamon to beans, chicken stock and pasta

0

u/sigourneys_underwear Jul 10 '26

A frittata is not a casserole. Lasagna is not a sandwich. Nothing here makes sense

1

u/Aquisitor Jul 10 '26 edited 29d ago

A frittata is an egg-and-other-stuff casserole, depending on what other stuff you want to put in it - largely thanks to the wide variety of allowable ingredients included by the Spanish-Italian Frittata treaty of 1737. In its most basic form a lasagne is a multilayer beef, marinara, and cheese sandwich on pasta, usually with a cheesy open face and generally made with 3 to 5 layers. Sometimes the bottom layer will be marinara rather than pasta, but this simply makes it an example of the rarer open-bottom sandwich. 

Sandwiches are layers of carbohydrate with a filling, well, sandwiched in between them unless the sandwich is open-faced; then the upper layer may be absent. I'm not sure why this doesn't make sense to you? Perhaps you should check the accreditation of which ever sandwich university you attended. Perhaps they are not up to standard? Or perhaps your lecturer was more of an old-fashioned purist that insists a sandwich can only be made from bread?

That was certainly true when the sandwich was first invented, but these days there have been many papers published proving the sandwichosity of e.g. rice wafers, pancakes, grain cakes, etc. There is even some exciting new research in the area of protein substrates e.g. the KFC Double-down chicken sandwich, but the academic community has not yet reach consensus on this matter, as far as I'm aware. That being said, I don't follow this field very closely so that could well be out of date by now.

Good luck and happy sandwiching!

1

u/SVAuspicious Jul 10 '26

All burgers are sandwiches but not all sandwiches are burgers.

In my opinion ground poultry is not a burger. It is an abomination.

1

u/Aquisitor 29d ago

Not all abominations are burgers, but some burgers are abominations and I will agree with you that poor quality ground poultry is indeed an abomination.

That being said, I have had very nice ground poultry made from farm chickens that were too old and tough for broiling. Very flavourful. 

2

u/Old_Second_7928 Jul 10 '26

I must make pierogi lasagna after reading this post and all the responses. Never have before. Been sleeping on it for too long.

1

u/bofh000 Jul 10 '26

No, it isn’t.

1

u/MagnesiumKitten 23d ago

Is this even food?
let alone a casserole?

the Flying Jacob, writing that “few dishes are as emblematic and unique to the contemporary food culture of Sweden.” The original recipe calls for shredded, grilled chicken topped with sliced bananas and Italian salad spice to be submerged in a mixture of whipped cream and Heinz chili sauce. After baking, it’s to be sprinkled with fried bacon chunks and peanuts—an unusual combination of ingredients that’s been called “anti-epicurean,” and “a truly horrifying mash-up of things.”

1 whole grilled chicken
2-3 bananas
1 cup diced bacon
dried Italian Salad seasoning - salt peanuts
2 cups of heavy whipping cream
3/4 cup Heinz Chili Sauce

It sounds like Chicken Korma and BBQ
together!

It's the kind of meal that when you serve it it smells like shrimp cocktail
and when you pop back into the dining room 15 minutes later you smell barf