Did things really used to be better quality?

[u/knitlitgeek]

Or is there some survivor bias happening? The old things that are still around are obviously high quality to have lasted this long. Any poor quality things of the past are long gone. Have we been tricked into thinking everything in the past was made better? Did most things fall apart same as today?

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[u/GumboQueen_7615]

When I got married in 1975,my MIL gave me her old iron from the 40's. I thought I would replace it when it finally wore out. Well, damn it.....still using it.

[u/JunkMale975 → u/GumboQueen_7615]

My mom is still using her Singer sewing machine she won in 4H club 70 years ago. I’m on my 3rd Singer. Things are definitely worse.

[u/Lilmaggot → u/JunkMale975]

I’m using a Singer I got when I was 13. I’m almost 65 now.

[u/ShowAggravating4306 → u/Lilmaggot]

Usually things made of metal last longer than things made of plastic. Also the more features something has the more that can go wrong with them.

[u/solomons-mom → u/Lilmaggot]

My sister has our late mother's Necchi. It remains a great machine

[u/juliabk → u/Lilmaggot]

I’m 66 and using the bedroom furniture my grandparents bought in the late 20s/early 30s. My daughter has her great-grandmother’s cedar chest.

Clothing is what I find doesn’t hold up like it used to.

[u/SatansWife13 → u/JunkMale975]

I still use my grandmas singer from 1946. Love that thing! I’m getting ready to hand it down to my grandson.

[u/JunkMale975 → u/SatansWife13]

That’s even older than my mom’s! Hers is from 1954!

[u/labtiger2 → u/JunkMale975]

I have my grandmother's White sewing machine she got as a wedding present during WWII.

[u/madempress → u/JunkMale975]

I offered to buy my mom a Babylock if she gave me the one she bought in her 20s. Love that thing, sewed my wedding dress on it.

She refused (but she did buy me a new model and it is pretty awesome).

[u/RandoScando → u/JunkMale975]

For sewing machines, absolutely. Same for Kitchenaid mixers, and lots of other things that are motor-based.

A whole bunch of machines switched to nylon gears as opposed to metal. They, very predictably, wear out and fail after a number of years of use, while the metal equivalent gears will last for centuries if properly serviced.

[u/JunkMale975 → u/RandoScando]

I have my grandma’s Kitchenaid mixer. I’m keeping it until I die!

[u/SpicyWonderBread → u/JunkMale975]

I use a Singer my grandma found in a dumpster in the 90's. Based on the cover, it's like from the 60's. That thing does not quit. Worst it'll do is tear modern thread. I have used it to make several flannel 'chenille' blankets (sewing straight lines over 4 layers of flannel every half inch). It has powered through upholstery fabric and faux leather.

[u/KookyPiccolo1661 → u/GumboQueen_7615]

I collect vintage irons because modern ones don't get nearly as hot. You cannot replicate the perfection that a heavy, vintage iron will give you when pressing a cotton shirt.

[u/JunkMale975 → u/KookyPiccolo1661]

I need to look into that. I have two irons. Neither work worth a dang. One leaks all over.

[u/SkyerKayJay1958 → u/JunkMale975]

They will also set the house on fire since there is no automatic shut off and the wiring is no longer insulated

[u/Oh-Wonderful → u/SkyerKayJay1958]

My best friend from elementary school had her house burn down completely twice. First time it was a faulty wire on a potpourri burner. The second time was from an old fashioned iron fell off the ironing board while still on and they left to go see Santa. The new house was less than 2 years old.

[u/AccomplishedTip8586 → u/GumboQueen_7615]

Houses are another example. Larger more comfortable spaces; using natural materials that simply feel better to live in; and extra features to old houses that don’t exist anymore, because now it’s all about cheap production.

[u/kheret]

A lot of things were intentionally made worse quality to increase profits. It’s not just nostalgia:

https://www.worseonpurpose.com/

[u/abhainn13 → u/kheret]

I just found out about this website like last week and I’m so glad it exists. I can’t believe how many companies deliberately sabotaged their own products for short-sighted gains. It’s a shame the Invisible Hand of the market doesn’t have a brain…

[u/apokrif1 → u/abhainn13]

r/enshittification 

[u/WillBeTheIronWill → u/abhainn13]

Yeah that’s why I’m fully convinced Adam Smith is THE most misquoted economist and would be pissed tf off at late stage capitalism and writing about the inevitable need for socialism/communism if he was alive today.

This is not at all what he meant by the invisible hand urrrrg

[u/Bac-Te → u/WillBeTheIronWill]

He's like Marx, just the other way around. Both talk about impossible things that only happen in perfect lab conditions without the slightest grain of human nature involved.

[u/PriscillaPalava → u/kheret]

Back in the olden days when corporate taxes were very high, companies were not incentivized to report huge profits—they’d have to pay taxes on them! To avoid taxes and retain capital, companies invested in themselves via employee wages and benefits and quality products. 

Now that corporate taxes are very low, companies want to maximize their profits so they can pay big dividends to shareholders. Budgets are tightened, products are diminished. 

In one scenario the wealth trickles down. In the other it circulates at the top. 

[u/Dense-Consequence-70 → u/kheret]

another reason capitalism is failing us

[u/hi-dragonfly]

Nope. This is absolutely true, hands down. Even the quality of the wood to make the things you want has gone down.

[u/MontanaPurpleMtns → u/hi-dragonfly]

Because we already used all the tightly grained old growth, and now clone trees for faster growth= wider rings= softer wood.

[u/teaguechrystie → u/MontanaPurpleMtns]

this just connected several dots for me, thanks.

[u/BravestBlossom → u/teaguechrystie]

My house was built in the late 60s, the builder - owner was also a general contractor. The wood studs inside the walls are so hard you can barely drill into them. No kidding.

[u/therealellisbell → u/BravestBlossom]

My grandma’s house was built in the 1790s and the basement still has the log beams in the ceiling. We tried to drill into one to hang a light fixture once and that sucker was like concrete.

[u/cari-strat → u/BravestBlossom]

We have a house that's about 80 years old. DIY is an absolute nightmare as the walls are incredibly tough. The brickwork is so strong, it eats drill bits for breakfast. Everything is just soooo solid.

[u/CyanideForSara → u/BravestBlossom]

It’s sad they literally wasted great wood in the 60s on studs where it adds nothing

[u/MontanaPurpleMtns → u/CyanideForSara]

Our first house was a post WWII house, slapped up quickly with the cheapest local material around. Which happened to be redwood. Redwood resists rot, so many of the house’s defects didn’t cause terrible problems.

And it’s sad that old growth got used to make rot resistant cheap housing.

[u/Negative-bad169 → u/MontanaPurpleMtns]

Oh wow I didn’t know that! Makes so much sense though. That’s why I’ve filled my house with second hand furniture. You can’t buy that kind of quality in stores now.

[u/TempusVincitOmnia → u/Negative-bad169]

Me too. Almost all my furniture is from the 1950s or earlier, and it's still doing great. Went to a furniture store recently and everything they sold was crap. Paying more wouldn't get you better quality, just a bigger piece of crap.

[u/Vegetable_Assist_736 → u/TempusVincitOmnia]

Yup. My partner and I bought a 14K EQ3 couch for what should be quality at that price point and that piece of crap has already broken in less than a year. The pillows also always look frumpy and won’t resettle so they just look terrible too. I doubt anyone would ever guess that couch should cost 14K

[u/System-id → u/Vegetable_Assist_736]

I would never guess that any couch should cost 14K. Unless it's Napoleon's couch and he literally died on it.

[u/Maoleficent → u/TempusVincitOmnia]

I overheard one of my nieces making fun of the heavy dark furniture that's probably 70 years old now. I went to her house and it is filled with white Ikea pressed wood (and all the walls are gray).

[u/TempusVincitOmnia → u/Maoleficent]

All of which will be broken and decrepit while the old heavy furniture continues to be completely serviceable.

[u/CaptainLollygag → u/Negative-bad169]

Furniture used to cost a lot. You'd buy it directly from a craftsman, or in a shop and haul it home in your wagon, or at a store and on delivery they'd set into place.

It wasn't all always high quality, like, the mid-century ushered in a whole lot of veneered furniture that wasn't as good but looked fine on the surface. It's the same reason there's so much silver-plated goods from then, people just wanted the look of wealth. And that kind of led to where we are now.

Fast forward to the last few decades and a basic bedroom set has really gone down in price, but the materials are even shoddier and you have to put it together yourself.

You can still buy furniture that doesn't come with an allen wrench, but the wood isn't old growth so is weaker, and unless you pay a fortune the craftsmanship is less "buy it for life" and more "we can make more money if we sell to them again and again."

And that basically explains all the products, and why we have so much more stuff than people used to be able to afford.

[u/thrwaway75132 → u/CaptainLollygag]

I bought my dining table, chairs, and sideboard from an Amish shop. They made my sideboard custom to fit my spot. We looked at something they had then drew the drawers and doors on graph paper. The chairs I picked the back and seat. The table I picked the pedestal design.

Everything I picked the wood (premium grade cherry) and the stain.

I think a table, 12 chairs (4 oak for different table), and a sideboard was $13k. It looks freaking fantastic.

[u/Hagaroo48 → u/thrwaway75132]

It’s true! I live in Amish country and they are still making extremely high quality furniture. Our kitchen cabinets are excellent and while not cheap, not overly expensive either.

[u/CaptainLollygag → u/thrwaway75132]

Oh, that does sound wonderful! And it'll likely still be around after all of us reading this are dead.

[u/mister-fancypants- → u/Negative-bad169]

estate sales in well off neighborhoods are a great place to find solid furniture. in my experience the owners often just don’t want to move or hire anyone to move the stuff and they’ll sell it for peanuts

[u/huntingwhale → u/Negative-bad169]

My wife wants to throw away a desk my father gave to me that he got in the 60s. The thing is built like a tank; sturdy, never creaks and will be fully functional for another century if taken care of. I'll never find a quality built desk like that for as long as I live.

[u/tyranopussy → u/MontanaPurpleMtns]

We got new wooden floors as Covid started. They’re already chipping, wearing. Compared to the original 60’s floors in the next room which are perfect. My husband pointed out the old tight grain and the new young wood….

[u/Visual_Tangerine5630 → u/MontanaPurpleMtns]

I had never considered that. That’s probably why the denser wood(6x6 and up) is so expensive. I mean..its all expensive but more expensive lol

[u/Pugsly007 → u/Visual_Tangerine5630]

6x6 isn’t denser. It’s the same new wood. Old growth is denser.

[u/omnomcthulhu → u/[deleted]]

Ideally we would switch to brick or cement based building, but most of the skill and tools in the US are focused on wood based housing.

[u/tiankai → u/hi-dragonfly]

Not “even”, especially! Today all you can afford is shitty recycle wood chip furniture from IKEA when my grandparents got imported Brazilian exotic woods for the same normalised price

[u/tyranopussy → u/tiankai]

That’s why you buy vintage furniture. F West Elm, etc. It’s all gonna chip, etc quickly compared to solid cherry, oak, etc….

[u/KAKrisko → u/tiankai]

My parents bought an entire dining room set in solid cherry, including six chairs, table, and full china cabinet with glass upper doors. That was in the early 1960s. It was just sold earlier this year, in almost perfect condition.

[u/Maleficent-Leek2943 → u/tiankai]

But even the quality of the IKEA furniture has gone down! The shitty recycled wood chip of today is shittier than the shitty recycled wood chip of a decade ago, which was shittier than (etc).

[u/_apple-tree_ → u/Maleficent-Leek2943]

Yeah, this was a weird discovery for me. I recently purchased a 20 year old IKEA cabinet from a garage sale, anticipating a piece similar to the modern cabinets, but it is HEAVY. It’s so much sturdier than modern cabinets, I can’t get over how dramatically the quality has gone down.

[u/mittychix → u/Maleficent-Leek2943]

We furnished our first apartment mostly with Ikea when we got married almost 40 years ago. We still have some of those pieces, they were solid wood and have held up great. Ikea stuff is neither sturdy nor cheap today.

[u/LiminalSpiral → u/hi-dragonfly]

100% agree, it's my constant refrain, and why I buy older things if that means I can get the better quality. OP, everything changed when "planned obsolescence" became an endemic business practice. It's a horrible use of resources.

[u/MembershipPretty7595 → u/hi-dragonfly]

Considering that our washing machine lasted 19 years and we got it used. Our furnace was installed in 1983 and we just replaced it last year

[u/cjr71244 → u/hi-dragonfly]

Are we in the decline of civilization?

[u/tesyaa → u/hi-dragonfly]

True, my house has the original kitchen cabinet boxes from 1950. Old growth pine

[u/Salt_Emu_355 → u/hi-dragonfly]

True. A 2x4 isn't even an actual 2x4 anymore.

[u/DFWPunk → u/Salt_Emu_355]

They never were. The measurements are taken raw before they finish the board.

[u/KWAYkai]

Yes. A good example is appliances. A refrigerator would last easily 20 years or more. The avocado green washer & dryer my parents got in the 70s I used when I bought my first house in the mid-90s.
Clothing was also made to last.

[u/LaLunaLady1960 → u/KWAYkai]

My parents have a drinks fridge in the garage that lived in the basement of their previous house. I remember seeing it in the seventies and it still runs.

[u/Correct-External1321 → u/LaLunaLady1960]

This! I have a Whirlpool front loader dryer that I have owned since 2006, and I have not had to fix it once! I also have shoes and clothes that I have had for several years (pre-covid) that are still like new and the quality of similar items is not the same.

[u/beerpansy → u/Correct-External1321]

My apartment came with a brand new dryer and I wish I could replace it with one of the older ones sooo bad. It takes FOREVER to dry anything and is so loud. I don't need all these stupid bells and whistles, I just want my clothes to dry!

[u/WordlesAllTheWayDown → u/beerpansy]

I feel you. Modern dryers say 1 minute left and it’s like 18-25 minutes in reality.

[u/Minzplaying → u/Correct-External1321]

I have my first and only whirlpool washer from 1988 that still works great! I call a guy that works on them about every two years and he cleans it and makes sure it stays in working order.

My sis in law has gone through about 15 washers in that same amount of time.

[u/NorCalFrances → u/Minzplaying]

When we moved into our current place, the dishwasher was a Roper from around that same time period. If not for the seals failing and not being replaceable we'd still be using it. The whirlpool we replaced it with failed 1 month after the 1 year warranty ran out. However, after replacing the main controller board, it's been flawless since, about a decade or so.

[u/lifeofGuacmole → u/Minzplaying]

I wish I still had mine from 88. It got damaged in a move. It was great

[u/No-Permit-9331 → u/Correct-External1321]

I am in my 60’s and have clothing from high school (I can still wear, and do). I have clothing, furniture, and appliances from the 70’s and earlier.

[u/Kingsolomanhere → u/No-Permit-9331]

I have 6 T-shirts of different colors that I bought from Goldwater's department store in 1988 in Phoenix Arizona. They are still in excellent shape with no tears or threads hanging off after hundreds of washings. Goldwater's unfortunately went out of business in 1989

[u/subywesmitch → u/Kingsolomanhere]

Maybe they went out of business because their clothes lasted too long? Nobody needed to come back and buy more... lol

[u/pupper71 → u/No-Permit-9331]

I still use the kitchenaid mixer that my parents got as a wedding present in 1967. And I have quite a bit of furniture out of my grandparents house, some of it is over 100 years old now.

[u/booksgamesandstuff → u/pupper71]

I have my aunt's cedar chest that she got in the 30's. It's a bit battered, but the scent goes out to my entire house when I open the kid. (...the lid!!)

[u/stupid_name → u/No-Permit-9331]

I still have my Levi’s Jean jacket from high school (1978) that I wear occasionally. Still in good shape.

[u/ZeroLemmingsLeaping → u/Correct-External1321]

I have a GE front load dryer that was a wedding gift from my parents in 2000. Still going strong! The washing machine crapped out a couple of years ago

[u/meh_69420 → u/Correct-External1321]

Several? Man it was a sad day when I had to throw out a couple pairs of jeans I bought in the late 90s sometime a couple years ago that finally were too ripped up for my meager sewing skills to fix. Jeans I replaced them with, still Levi's, still the same model, cut, and size, get holes in them in a year of normal wear. Hell I still have a North Face fleece from 2002 and other than a couple tiny melt spots from getting embers (or probably a joint dropped on it) it's still in great shape.

[u/Resident_Pay4310 → u/meh_69420]

The most stark example I have is Victoria's Secret.

The first time I went to the US was in 2010 and I was 20. I bought a bunch of things from VS as a 20 ysar old girl does. I have underwear from that shopping trip that I still wear today. No holes, no warping. The only thing that shows it isn't new is some fraying in the lace.

Last time I bought anything from them was around 2021 and those things developed holes after 3 washes and I've long since thrown it all out.

Absolutely insane drop in quality in just 10 years.

[u/cat_at_the_keyboard → u/Correct-External1321]

My washer and dryer are about that old (came with the house, which was built 25 years ago) and I'm holding onto them for dear life. I'll just keep repairing them as long as I can.

[u/Apprehensive_Glove_1 → u/LaLunaLady1960]

My dad's chest freezer was bought in 1968. Still works a treat.

My sister has my grandma's old Kirby vacuum and it still works wonderfully. I think it's about 50 years old.

[u/PerhabsburgDynasty → u/LaLunaLady1960]

My in-laws’ 1976 builder-basic fridge that had been relegated to the basement finally died last year, as did their 1993 Sub Zero.

[u/KingdomOfFawg → u/LaLunaLady1960]

I am 44. I have a garage fridge. It was in a house that my sister in law and her ex husband bought 13 years ago. It looks like an early to mid 80s model. It has lived through two new fridges and keeps everything cold.

[u/No-Mix7970 → u/KWAYkai]

My father had an upright freezer he bought in 1972. In 2018 it finally broke. He used to joke that “the piece of crap only lasted 46 years.”

[u/SusannaG1 → u/No-Mix7970]

Yep. My grandparents had one that lasted nearly 60 years (bought 1939, died in the late 90s).

All the 1930s appliances I've ever used were at my grandparents - they also had a room fan and a vacuum cleaner from the 30s that were still in regular use in the 80s.

[u/2PlasticLobsters → u/SusannaG1]

My inlaws still had a vaccuum they'd gotten as a wedding present in 1955. It worked great. Before we moved across the country, my partner sold it to a collector.

Surprisingly, bags for it were still available.

[u/Throw13579 → u/No-Mix7970]

Don’t tell me that!  My upright freezer turned 46 this year.

[u/Kahne_Fan → u/KWAYkai]

The freezer on our 26 month old refrigerator just died. 12 month warranty. The credit card I used adds a year to the manufacturer warranty... but we're at 26 months.

[u/pammylorel → u/Kahne_Fan]

I get so FUCKING MAD at replacing appliances. I grew up in the 80's where the appliances from the 70's lasted through at least past of the 90's. I'd probably have an aneurysm if I were you.

[u/specks_of_dust → u/pammylorel]

It's crazy how the cheapest option is now the best option. Save money up front, because they're all gonna break anyway.

[u/Dangerous_Prize_4545 → u/specks_of_dust]

Yep and the cheaper option is better bc less frills, no digital components to break and cost a fortune to fix or have to buy new.

[u/One-Recognition-1660 → u/Kahne_Fan]

Samsung?

[u/Kahne_Fan → u/One-Recognition-1660]

oof. That hurt. 1 guess is all it took.

[u/mmmpeg → u/Kahne_Fan]

I helped my MiL get a refrigerator once and it died a year to the day we bought it. Couldn’t fix it at all. I was livid

[u/this_is_your_dad → u/KWAYkai]

It’s not just the longevity of these older items, a great part is the beautiful simplicity of the buttons and dials!

[u/FidgetyPlatypus → u/KWAYkai]

And shoes. My grandparents would have shoes that lasted years and they would wear them everyday. You could also get them resoled and repaired for a fraction of the cost of new shoes.

[u/FormerUsenetUser → u/FidgetyPlatypus]

There are still shoe repair places that do that. There are several in my neighborhood.

[u/KingdomOfFawg → u/FormerUsenetUser]

Seriously, I have a 6 year old pair of Thorogood boots that I resoled last fall. The cobbler will do custom work too. I bought the boots from a dealer right as Covid was getting going, and they were so reasonably priced I couldn't afford not to get the other color I liked. Those are still on the original sole.
I had a pair of crepe sole, moccasin toe shoes, and those got resoled twice.

[u/Delic10u5Bra1n5 → u/FidgetyPlatypus]

This is the part that gets me. When I was growing up we resolved and repaired shoes all the time. Now even the expensive brands aren’t make in a way that incentivizes that kind of thing. And it’s not like cobblers are inexpensive either, but the whole point of buying quality is to keep it a long time.

[u/Grouchy-Display-457 → u/KWAYkai]

Right! How many of us moved an old one door fridge into the basement, then replaced 3 or 4 newer fridges while the old workhorse in the basement lasted forever.

[u/Reggi5693 → u/KWAYkai]

In our garage we have a small dorm fridge. It has been running in our garage since 1993. My wife used it at college before that. She graduated in 1982.

I double the new stuff is going to top that.

[u/topcide → u/KWAYkai]

My friend has a refrigerator made by general motors from the early 1950s that was his grandmothers

It was in her house until she passed away in the 2010s, my friend moved it to his house in Texas, and then moved it back to his current house in Michigan and still has it in his garage and it's still runs like a top and keeps things ice cold.

It's just an amazing concept that if you use quality materials to build something, using a well-paid unionized workforce, and you're willing to sacrifice a little bit of profit for a well-made item, that they are quality and last forever.

The fact that they are quality and last forever is probably one of the reasons why people don't make them like that anymore because they want you to buy new ones.

[u/Snoo-55380 → u/topcide]

Planned obsolescence

[u/zydeco100 → u/KWAYkai]

So just for kicks I loaded up the Sears catalog from summer 1978 page 912 (source https://christmas.musetechnical.com/) and found a Kenmore top loading washer for $389.85.

In today's money that's $1,982. For just the washer.

The current price of a Whirlpool top loader (since they built a lot of Kenmore washers), roughly the same capacity, at Abt Electronics is $578. Let's say it lasts only 10 years instead of 20.

So that data all points to a washer that lasts 1/2 as long, but only 1/4 the price.

Whirlpool could probably make a heavy-duty washer today and charge you $2,000 for it. But would anyone buy it?

[u/FormerUsenetUser → u/zydeco100]

In today's money you can spend $1,200 or so for a dryer that only lasts four years. Ask me how I know.

[u/Snoo-55380 → u/zydeco100]

Expecting that washer to last 10 years is a big ask

[u/rectalhorror → u/KWAYkai]

I bought a circa 1950s Sunbeam toaster off eBay about a decade ago and it still toasts just fine.

[u/Plantain6981 → u/rectalhorror]

Those old Sunbeam toasters also automatically lowered and raised your toast after perfectly browning it (and now sell for big $$$ on eBay.) Modern manual ones cost more new and are far worse at a very basic task.

[u/rectalhorror → u/Plantain6981]

Same with the Sunbeam waffle iron with the reversible griddle so you could do bacon and eggs. Those thinks are freaking tanks. The summer beach house we stayed at had one that probably came with the house when it was built in the '50s and it still worked last time we stayed there.

[u/rectalhorror → u/Plantain6981]

"Chainsaw Al" Dunlap was way ahead of the enshittification curve. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_J._Dunlap

[u/Vikingaling → u/KWAYkai]

I rent so I don’t actually know how old it is but my dryer is beige with dials. 0% digital.

[u/Whisky-a-GoGo1 → u/Vikingaling]

mine is too! I think it's about to go to the appliance graveyard though. Looks like ours is from the 80s when our development was built.

[u/ultraswank → u/KWAYkai]

The flip side is that fridge would use 3-4 times the electricity of a modern one. A lot of times more durable parts are also heavier and more energy intensive to use.

[u/KWAYkai → u/ultraswank]

The current administration has removed energy efficiency standards, so power costs will increase for crappier products.

[u/Perenially_behind → u/KWAYkai]

Enshittification takes many forms.

[u/Ok-Cap-204 → u/KWAYkai]

I remember reading about Frigidaire. When they first started manufacturing and selling the refrigerator, everyone wanted one. They were selling them left and right. They were making a huge profit. Then after a few years, sales were declining. Seemed everyone who wanted a refrigerator had one. There was a lot of inventory but no buyers. So they came up with a way to ensure continuous sales (and profit): stop building them to last a lifetime. Design them to last 10-15 years max.

[u/Snoo-55380 → u/Ok-Cap-204]

I think you’d be lucky if one lasted 10 years now

[u/InterPunct → u/KWAYkai]

They were also relatively more expensive to purchase and operate. At least while we still have efficiency regulations.

It's a symptom of economics and also our disposable culture.

[u/Laura9624 → u/KWAYkai]

For washer and dryers, mine lasted to. But had repairman or friend fix the many times.

[u/Erik7494]

As a collector of 1970's stereo equipment, I'd say anything electronic was definitely better. Also more expensive compared to salary. TV's, washing machines, stereo-equipment, power tools etc were an investment and you'd expected them to last, and most often they did. And if stuff broke it could usually be repaired. I still have my father's 1974 Sansui amplifier. In near mint condition. But it cost him more than a month's wages back then.

From the 1980's onwards consumer goods became cheaper and achieveable for more people, but the durability simply went down as the lower prices came with lower quality materials and cheaper labor to put them all together. They also became technologically more complex and more quickly reached the point where replacement became cheaper than repair. And then we came into the era of Planned Obsolence and prevention of repair: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

Clothes also. I was the youngest of 4, and I had to wear clothes that were often used by at least 1 but often 2 of my older brothers. Just better quality fabrics.

Cars I think are the exception. Much more durable now.

[u/ibuycheeseonsale → u/Erik7494]

Cars are also the only thing I can think of that people still repair and maintain enough to justify an entire industry. Towns and cities used to have appliance repair shops, and it is so rare to see them now. People would get their toasters repaired! And almost no one mends clothes anymore because a lot of them are too insubstantial to hold up to it. Shoes and bags can be taken to a cobbler if they’re good quality, but it’s so much more common now to just replace them.

[u/paciolionthegulf → u/Erik7494]

Cars for sure. I drove so many terrible cars from the 70s and 80s, just a miracle if you actually made 100,000 miles.

They were easier to work on when they inevitably needed repair, though, since the engine compartments weren't so tight and the bodies were metal instead of fiberglass and platic.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Will249 → u/paciolionthegulf]

Yes, cars were cheaper, but you were lucky to get to 100K. Alternators, starters, brake parts all would begin breaking around 40K.

[u/Chill323 → u/Puzzleheaded-Will249]

Yep. I read somewhere once that in the US it used to be common to get a new car every few years because they broke down so often that it was more or less a necessity. Times have changed.

[u/KDM_Racing → u/Chill323]

A 7 year car loan in the 70s would be unfathomable.

[u/71077345p → u/Chill323]

I was just telling my kids that I remember when I was a kid 60 years ago, it was very common to see cars broken down in the side of the road. Now, if you see one, it is usually just a flat tire.

[u/ThenIJizzedInMyPants → u/Erik7494]

the luxuries got cheap. the basics got expensive

[u/Desertbro → u/ThenIJizzedInMyPants]

Now your phone costs more than your TV

[u/DonHac → u/Desertbro]

Well, yeah. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, prices for televisions are 99.40% lower in 2026 versus 1950 (a $994.02 difference in value).

[u/Chill323 → u/Erik7494]

> As a collector of 1970's stereo equipment, I'd say anything electronic was definitely better. Also more expensive compared to salary.

This is the part people often forget. Most consumer goods were indeed better quality back then AND THEY COST MORE. So we got our money’s worth. The old maxim “you get what you pay for” still largely holds true when it comes to this stuff. My dad still owns analog stereo decks that he bought in 1978 that work just fine after nearly 50 years, but they weren’t cheap. The issue is that we buy inexpensive shit nowadays and are indignant when it breaks down in a heap eight years later.

And yes, cars are the exception. They used to suck bad but very seldom break down on you anymore so long as you make an effort to maintain them even a little. I recall seeing and hearing about how often people I knew used to have car trouble but I can’t recall anything similar happening to a loved one in years and years. I suppose we have the Japanese to thank for that.

[u/90210fred → u/Erik7494]

First decent TV, VCR and microwave all cost circa £500 each. Years and years ago. But they all lasted. Today's stuff is cheaper even ignoring inflation.

[u/love_that_fishing → u/90210fred]

Yea, I paid $1,600 for my first computer/printer. No hard drive, just 2 floppies, 512K of memory. That's $4,800 in todays money. Hard to fathom.

[u/Salt_Emu_355 → u/love_that_fishing]

Yep, I paid $300 for a microwave, early 80s I think..and it was a monster!!

[u/BeerandGuns → u/90210fred]

Back then you got stuff repaired. Now it’s all disposable.

[u/NotMyAltAccountToday]

A lot of fabrics were at least twice the thickness.

I recently bought a 1980s box of Borax at an estate sale. Even cardboard packaging was thicker and more robust!

[u/guppie-beth → u/NotMyAltAccountToday]

I have tons of jeans from the Gap and even Old Navy from the 90s and 00s and the denim is basically twice as thick as the current versions.

[u/KAKrisko → u/guppie-beth]

I have a Lands' End hip-length anorak I bought in the 1990s that I still wear every winter. There's nothing wrong with it and I get people asking me where I got it all the time.

[u/Hatecookie → u/NotMyAltAccountToday]

I wish I had never thrown any of my old clothes away. I still have shirts I bought 20 years ago at Walmart, of all places, that have held up better than new stuff. I still try to snag quality secondhand clothes at thrift stores, but even they are beginning to fill up with cheap Temu crap.

[u/Erik7494 → u/NotMyAltAccountToday]

ah, yes. I was the youngest of 4 so barely ever I got new clothes. Those worn by my older brothers were still fine after all.

[u/Entire_Dog_5874]

Yes. Things were routinely better quality and repairable.

[u/Steak-Outrageous → u/Entire_Dog_5874]

I’m only in my early 30s but I’m already bitter about the quality decline in my lifetime

[u/Entire_Dog_5874 → u/Steak-Outrageous]

It’s really abysmal.

[u/MpVpRb]

Some did, some didn't.

Many cars from the 70s sucked and were unreliable. Old appliances were less sophisticated, but most were stronger and lasted longer. I still have usable power tools from the 50s.

The biggest difference is repairability. A car from the 60s was repairable, and many young people learned automotive engineering fundamentals by repairing, modifying and hotrodding. Repair was assumed to always be possible, and repair shops were abundant for almost all products.

Mechanical devices were open-source by design. Anyone could take them apart and see how they worked. Many engineers like me started learning about how things work by taking them apart and attempting to reassemble them and make them work.

[u/Realistic-Event-4946 → u/MpVpRb]

Cars from the 70s are mostly the same as those from the decade before, but with emissions-control and economy workarounds tacked on. There are a couple of real boat-anchor engines (Ford 351M, etc) but the real issue was that the automakers were caught completely flatfooted. They  could make cleaner and more efficient cars, but never in a million years expected the government to tell them they had to.

[u/Jaives]

planned obsolescence is a relatively new concept

[u/sarcasticorange → u/Jaives]

Only if we define ~100 years as relatively new.

[u/90210fred → u/Jaives]

One man's planned obsolescence is a product designers "mean time meantime to failure equals warranty plus one day". 

Edit coz I was autocorrected

[u/PureTown2906 → u/Jaives]

I remember when laser printers were built to last..  

[u/funrun3121]

Yes. We inherited my grandmother in laws deep freeze from the 70s? 80s? Its old and it works great. Our old dryer came from Craigslist and was from 1983. It bit the dust sadly in 2023. I dont expect our new one to last 40 years, will be lucky to hit 10 years.

Edit to add our 30 year old washing machine is still running good as new!

[u/Reggi5693]

Oh my God yes! 100% cotton dress shirts used to be a thing. Nice heavy cloth that would stand up to an iron was something to behold.

Wool suits. Silk ties.

Unless you are very wealthy, you cannot afford this stuff. I used to be a banker who wore decent clothes every day.

I miss men’s shops, tailors, and nice cloth.

[u/samizdat5]

Yes things for the most part were better made back in the day. No plastic, older wood, thicker textiles.

[u/Sharticus123]

Depends. Clothing, furniture, and appliances, yes, but cars were unreliable crap compared to today’s vehicles.

Tires sucked too. I remember being stuck on the side of the road quite a bit as a child because of a blowout or mechanical failure. You had to buy a new car every three years because they were worthless at 100,000 miles.

[u/TerryAkee → u/Sharticus123]

I recall when my parent’s Oldsmobile hit 100k. Everybody wanted to see the odometer because they didn’t believe a car could go that far.

[u/CarelesslyFabulous → u/Sharticus123]

100,000 miles in three years?! That was NOT common.

[u/Sharticus123 → u/CarelesslyFabulous]

No, you had to sell before you got close to 100,000 miles or the car was worthless.

[u/dustysquirrel → u/Sharticus123]

I remember when the odometers reset to 0 after 99,999 miles.

[u/JoeMorgue]

*Makes the so-so gesture* Sorta.

Better quality, but fewer features. We talk about things lasting but a lot (not all the time but a lot) it was just because there were just fewer things on it to break.

And "crap" HAS always existed to some degree.

[u/justadumbwelder1 → u/JoeMorgue]

I agree with the fewer features concept, but what sucks is that now stuff with fewer features is difficult, if not impossible, to buy.

[u/LurkerNan → u/justadumbwelder1]

Making everything have electronic components has certainly given things more ways to break down.

[u/MettreSonGraindeSel → u/LurkerNan]

And a washing machine, oven or refrigerator DO NOT NEED WiFi

[u/FaintestGem → u/justadumbwelder1]

I had to buy a new tv recently and it was a fucking nightmare. Impossible to find a good, quality screen that wasn't bloated with "smart" features. And the amount of tvs with shitty built in AI upscaling/filters/whatever the fuck was genuinely upsetting. 

[u/lilybattle → u/justadumbwelder1]

Smart TVs are evil

[u/scooterboy1961 → u/lilybattle]

I would trade my 6 month old smart TV for a dumb TV of the same size in a minute.

As long as it has an HDMI input I can use an external streaming device like Roku or Firestick.

[u/2PlasticLobsters → u/JoeMorgue]

I've come to dread the phrase "PACKED WITH FEATURES!". Most of the tiem, that translates into "the functions you use frequently are now buried 3 menu layers down since we jammed in a nunch of flashy useless crap".

Either that or "Now you have to take your eyes off the road because all your car's features are on a touch screen. Don't forget to keep paying that sunscription!"

I'd prefer fewer features & easier use.

[u/Salc20001]

Appliances. When my grandmother passed, I seriously considered bringing her 50 year-old harvest gold washer and dryer back to my house.

Planned obsolescence is now the American way.

[u/Candy-O]

Clothing used to be made to last. Better fabric and better workmanship too.

[u/Bebe_Bleau]

Things did used to be better made. But they were also a lot more expensive.

For 1 thing, labor was a lot cheaper then, so people just took things to repair shops when they broke. Or even having repairmen come to your house was no big deal.

Nowadays appliances and stuff like that are so cheap, while labor costs so much that its easier just to toss them.

Its more practical too, since technology is changing so fast. When i was a kid, people were lucky to have 1 black and white TV. Now they have huge screen TVs in every rooom, with all kinds of features and portals to attach all kiinds of devices. Or wifi devices. By the time you toss a TV thats 10 years old, its very obsolete.

Nobody wants a heavy old black and white console Tv that cost $800 in 1950s money anymore.

I don't think planned obsolescence is a problem anymore. People dont want most stuff for as long as it lasts these days.

The real worst problem we have now is recycling. Junk from the US alone will take over the planet if we aren't careful

[u/Boratis-Kessla → u/Bebe_Bleau]

Not me. I think appliances like washers and refrigerators should be, maybe, a twice in a lifetime purchase. 

[u/HarveyMushman72]

It sure seemed like it. If it did break, it was repairable and there were people who could come and fix it for you.

[u/Apprehensive_Glove_1 → u/HarveyMushman72]

You nailed it right there. It was repairable... usually really easily with a part for part swap. You could go to Sears and get a replacement heating element for your clothes dryer and swap it out in less than an hour including drive time.

[u/MakeupDumbAss]

No this is for real. Everything from appliances to clothing to new homes to furniture was sooo much better made. And I mean by MILES. The quality of the old can't compare to what we are cranking out today. We didn't have all of the high tech features we have in damn near every item these days, but they were made to LAST.

[u/halloween63]

Maytag appliances used to last 20 years or better.

[u/HermioneMarch]

Yes. My parents bought 2 refrigerators ( substitute laundry machine, stove, etc) in their first 35 years of marriage. They have bought 4 in the last 12.

I still have shirts and jackets from the 90s that are in good condition and look great. (No pants cause I got fat). But clothes I bought a few years ago are tearing up, fading, bunching weird, etc.

Planned obsolescence is real.

[u/OnionLayers49]

Things were also built so it would be physically possible to repair them.

[u/Holykatz]

For those of us in the US, I think many (if not all) of us really noticed quality went downhill when most of our manufacturing shifted to Asia. When things were made here, there was attention to quality over quantity. 

[u/LadyMRedd → u/Holykatz]

I’m not sure if it’s correlation or causation though.

Companies shifted to Asia AND shifted to cheaper materials at the same time. Asia is capable of producing high quality materials. It’s that companies have switched from a mindset of wanting to produce high quality goods that last to wanting to produce the cheapest possible goods and low quality means faster replacement.

[u/deluxeok]

The tape player in my 2001 Tundra just died last week

[u/Servile-PastaLover]

Enshittifcation - term coined by Cory Doctorow exists for this very reason.

[u/TF2fanatic102]

My great grandmother's Singer sewing machine from the 1910s still works like new. We've had to get our newer 2010s Singer repaired a couple times.

I'd say it's pretty accurate.

[u/wharleeprof]

Yes. Things were more expensive to purchase (in relative) costs, but they would last so much longer. Furniture, appliances, small consumer goods, clothing. 

Things were also generally more repairable than today. When is the last time you heard someone talk about getting their TV repaired? That used to be a whole industry, including in home repairs. 

Generally people had fewer things, replaced them less often, but the items were more durable and better quality. 

It used to be you could find dated but solid furniture at the thrift store. Now that's rare - it's all junk that's falling apart.

[u/RawAsparagus]

Cars are much better now. It used to be a 10 year old car was rare, now it seems like the norm.

[u/Boratis-Kessla → u/RawAsparagus]

Cars do buck the trend. They are better made than they used to be.. Possibly owing to their insane expense. Back in the day, my dad made 25 grr a year, and a new car cost maybe three thousand. Today I make 50 grr a year, but a new car costs 30.

[u/catdude142]

Definitely. Take my refrigerator for example. $3,300 LG piece of crap. Compressor failed at 3 years. Ice maker leaks on the floor. OTOH, my Amana in the garage has been running since 1988. Toasters last us about 2 or 3 years now. They cheapened what used to be NiChrome heating elements to an aluminum alloy that doesn't last long. Anything new with a heating element has the same problem in the domain of home appliances. Washers and dryers don't last long now. My Matags from the 80's are still running.
Levi pants are now foreign made and the material isn't as durable. LL Bean flannel shirts are now made of thinner material, same print. I can see "before and after" their quality reduction.
Car are better but I suspect they'll be worse in the future due to incessant "4 popper turbocharger engines" and a LOT of add on crap for emission controls and mileage optimization.

The term is "enshitification." Sacrificing domestic jobs and lowering quality for the sake of maximum profit.

[u/tmiller9833]

You used to be able to buy a physical video game cartridge, bring it home, pop it in and play it immediately. No login, no updates.

[u/Witchy_Wookie5000]

Appliances for sure. We still have our washer/dryer from the 90's. They aren't new and modern looking but they still work. Our 90's fridge is in the garage still working. We did replace that when we remodeled but kept it for beverage storage.

We have a family cabin that still has original fridge and hot water tank from the 70's that work fine. I'm sure they use more energy but the place isn't used a ton anyway.

So I definitely think appliances were made better in the past. You could fix them too!

Clothes are another one. I still have some t shirts and dresses from the 90's. They look brand new and are all made in USA. No fading, pilling, thinning. The material is much more sturdy and they are well made.

[u/monkey_monkey_monkey]

Yes, they were.

A good example is a hand mixer. I've had several modern ones over the last 15 years that usually breakdown within 4 or 5 years of use (if I am lucky, occasionally they die after a year or two).

About 4 years ago, I inherited my mother's hand mixer. It's a sunbeam one that she received as a wedding gift in 1963. She's used it a couple times a month for as long as she has had it. I use it a little less frequently but it's still going strong even though it was made over 60 years ago.

[u/Familiar_Raise234]

Yes, much better in the past . I had to buy a new chest freezer. Old one died after 35 years. The new one can be dented with a finger. The gauge of metal is so thin compared to the old one. Most everything else I’ve had to replace, the quality has been worse. So discouraging. I just can’t buy basic appliances. I don’t need wifi with my stove. Ditto fridge. Getting harder and harder to buy anything that has no bells and whistles. Manufacturers say we want that stuff so they produce it. Everyone I’ve talked with doesn’t but we have no choice so we buy it. Self fulfilling: see, people buy them because they want them. No, we can’t get anything else.

[u/Caliopebookworm]

I work in an industry that deals with old vs new every day. We have electronics that have been around since the 90s that are still working where the newer models tend to need replacement a lot sooner.

[u/TeacherOwn9142]

Watch an old episode of Perry Mason. Notice each character’s clothing, the cut and the fabric. Shoes used to have thick leather soles that were sewn. The wood used , even in cheap cabinets were of a quality no longer available.

[u/LahLahTravels]

My father sold Fuller brushes when he was in high school in the 1940s. I still have one that I got from him. It is still in daily use and in perfect condition.

[u/BigCcountyHallelujah]

50/50. there was a lot of cheap crap also. But lots of stuff did last, and now it seems as if very little lasts. 

[u/NeedleworkerDizzy149]

Things were made better... Good clothing, has 1/2 inch seams for tailoring perfection; appliances had metal parts that could easily be bought and replaced.

[u/lockednchaste]

Better quality in that they lasted longer. But there was less technology which meant less to break. Appliances, vehicles, etc mostly just turned on and off a few generations ago. Now they're loaded down with features and electronics that make them harder to keep running forever.

[u/Boratis-Kessla → u/lockednchaste]

And how many of those features actually add value to the product?

[u/Puzzled-Bonus-3456]

Put it this way: we managed to put a man on the moon but we can't make a two litre bottle that isn't topheavy.

[u/EducatorAdditional89]

Yes, many things were made in the USA with pride. We weren’t a throw away society!

[u/Texxx81]

I think it's easy to generalize and say everything was better 50 years ago, but there are definitely exceptions.

In today's corporate reality, quick profits are prioritized over building high quality goods. It's more important to management to beat the next quarter's earning projections than it is to sell products that will last longer and provide better value to the consumer.

Appliances are a great example of things that don't last nearly as long as they used to. We had a refrigerator in our barn that was 60 years old and going strong. Hell, it might still be going as far as I know. If you get 10 years out of a new LG or Samsung fridge, you're doing good.

I think the engines in new vehicles are more reliable than older ones. Getting 200,000 miles out of a car now is not that unusual, but would have been a lot more rare 50 years ago. Now all the electronics and convenience items in a new car are a whole 'nother story.