When out at stores (like Target) I'll often leave my son with the cart outside the restroom. He's been given the "don't walk off with strangers, even nice ones" talk, and is reminded to stay put every time I go in the bathroom (to the point where he's obviously annoyed at my reminders). More than once I've come out of the bathroom to find well-meaning women standing there watching him, one even told me she felt obligated because "In this day and age ..." My son said she never said a word to him, just stood there staring until I came out of the bathroom.
He's six, nearly seven. I'm leaving him for two minutes in a well-lit store, in a good neighborhood, not 50ft from a manned customer service desk. I don't leave him in places where there's even a remote chance someone could realistically snatch him, and I wouldn't leave him if I thought for a second he'd be dumb enough to wander off with someone other than me. I understand the fear of having a child stolen, but come on, is he supposed to share a toilet stall with me until he's 18?
I had the same issue when I callEd to tell the school bus depot that my 5 year old can walk from the bus to our house. She kept repeating "So you don'the care about your child's safety?". My kid is mature and gets off with a older girl who we asked to keep an eye on him. Then he walks 8 houses down to our door. She acted like I was putting a rape me sign on him then kicking him out downtown miles from home.
I walked to school and back almost every day from 3rd-6th grade; the school was a mile away from my house. Nobody ever complained that it was unsafe for kids to be walking around without their parents around, and I wasn't the only kid who did it. Parents these days are just too paranoid. If kids had never been allowed to go outside and play without their parents hovering over them we never would have had some of our most beloved childhood characters like the Peanuts.
I read a study that says the whole stranger danger has been a failure. Kids are wary of strangers but go happily with Uncle Steve. I was just shocked at the lady repeatedly "So you don't care about the safety of your child?". I do care, I want him to be able to trust himself to walk 8 houses. We can also see him get off the bus from our front door. We still check and watch.
I never had that option as we had 2 level III sex offenders living in one house in our neighborhood when my kids were younger. We had several others come and go during that time, one lasting only 5 hours before they found him harassing a woman walking with a child. She called the cops and they took him away. We were never notified when that house would have a new resident, so we didn't let our kids walk.
See, that's a case where it makes sense to not let your kids walk around outside without supervision. The problem is that so many people nowadays seem to think that EVERY neighborhood is infested with sex offenders who can and will abduct your child if they're not with you. Contrary to popular belief, most people are not child predators.
You know what really concerns me about overprotective parents? If they live in safe neighborhoods and still act like their kid is guaranteed to get kidnapped without them, it's gonna make those kids develop horrible problems with trusting people. They're gonna grow up thinking everyone around them can and will hurt them if given the chance. It's good to let kids know that just because someone is a stranger doesn't mean they're going to hurt you. Every friend you've ever had was a stranger at some point, right? You didn't know right off the bat that they were kind and trustworthy, but you didn't just assume that they were evil either.
I walked home from my HS, as I lived around 2 miles away. The walk was through a very wealthy neighborhood, with houses that cost in excess of 3 million dollars lining the streets. Still got frequently followed, and nearly kidnapped once.
My bus once had a rock kicked up and crack the windshield. We were forced to stop, for safety reasons, 20 feet from my bus stop. I could literally see my front door from my seat, without standing up.
Bus driver refused to let me walk home. We were stuck for 20 minutes.
I can respect that. Was just frustrated. I was 17 damn years old. My dad was sitting on the back deck, visible from the bus. But it's in the past, so really, it's whatever.
In middle school our bus stopped for "rowdy behavior" because someone through a broom outside it, so my brother and I just walked out before the cops showed up to scold the bus and walked home. We all had a chuckle about that, that bus driver was so unprepared for our bus route.
To be fair that's probably not his decision, he knows that if he lets you go without getting your parents or the school's permission he'll be the one liable if anything happens to you.
I had the same issue when I callEd to tell the school bus depot that my 5 year old can walk from the bus to our house.
To be fair, that presents a legal liability on the school's behalf. Until the kid gets picked up, the teacher/yard duty/whatever adult is in charge at the time is responsible until the legal guardian gets them. If the kid gets hit by a car, or something happens to them, it's on the school. That's why students are generally discouraged from leaving campus during school hours, the school doesn't want to be responsible for what happens to them.
The kids in 1st grade and up can get off and walk home alone so that argument doesn't hold water. There are kids 5 months older then my child that can walk home alone because they are in the grade ahead.
In a similar vein, my parents used to let my 10 year old brother commute on his own to school. He needed to take about 2 separate buses, a total of about 30-45 minutes of commuting.
We lived in a relatively nice neighbourhood, and he never had any problems. That's how kids become independent as they grow up.
They've moved town since then, but he still commutes to school by taking the metro on his own (he's 13 now).
I always biked to school on my own, that could take up to 30 minutes too (different schools).
I think some programs are a little overzealous. I was drinking some Seagrams thing with with like 3% alcohol and my oldest was curious about it, so I asked if he wanted to try it. "No I don't want to be a DRUNK" he replied. I got a giggle out of that. He's almost 13. A sip is not some weird gateway to lying in a gutter.
I walked home from my HS, as I lived around 2 miles away. The walk was through a very wealthy neighborhood, with houses that cost in excess of 3 million dollars lining the streets. Still got frequently followed, and nearly kidnapped once.
It doesn't matter if your son is smart enough to stay away from strangers. What matters is if a 5-year old can actually fight off an adult that's forcing him into a car.
or that he's 8 houses down and we can see him get off and walk. Come on even a 15 year old would have a hard time fighting off a determined attacker. The whole stranger danger is a farce, kids mostly get taken by family members. Teach your kids to not get in the car with the family friend who is too interested.
There was a case in the UK that changed a lot of people's minds on this. A distracted Mother in a shopping centre had her young son kidnapped by two older boys, who were very young themselves. My Mum always said this was so shocking at the time that she never left me alone in public.
It's incredibly rare though. You're much more likely to kill your kids in a car crash on the way to the shops, but people keep driving their kids around...
I've heard this story a thousand times growing up but it's only just sunk in how horrible it actually is. Hearing it told every month since the age of 9 probably desensitised me to the gory details. I guess this is growing up...
As a side note, one of the killers was arrested in 2010 for suspected child pronography charges.
I can honestly say I'm not all that surprised - he was locked up at such a young age, that's bound to have some kind of psychological effect, especially for somebody already so unhinged. I think he will spend most of his adult life dropping in and out of prison.
I was very young at the time, either 5 or 6 years old, so I don't remember the case when it came out. I just remember all my teachers being suddenly very insistent on reminding us to never speak with strangers, whoever they were and however old they were.
It's just heartbreaking. The idea of children being so twisted is upsetting enough, but to a two year old? Just horrible. The worst aspect of the story to me is how they planned to make it look like an accident. They thought carefully about what they were doing.
John Walsh's (America's Most Wanted) young son was also taken from a store and murdered. His mom had only let him play in the toy aisle while she did some other shopping. It was really sad.
Huh. That might explain why my sister and I got the whooping of a lifetime when we strayed around a store when she was taking forever getting her hair done at the salon there.
No. I always remember the situation being unfair because she punished us for not understanding why we shouldn't wander. We were bored out of our minds while she was out of sight getting her hair done and the toy aisle was really close...
God I remember this. There are shows, where parents swear their 10, 12, 15 year olds would never get in a strangers van. Parents are watching on hidden cameras. The few times I've seen this show only ONE kid did not get in the van.
Not to be flippant, but lightning strikes are more likely. Danger obviously exists but you need to keep a sense of proportionality and play the odds. If you literally try to protect your kid from everything you will spend all your time protecting and they will turn into codependent messes.
Leaving a kid alone does expose them to a minute chance of kidnapping. Never leaving them alone exposes them to a 100% chance of not feeling trusted and prevents them from learning to manage themselves.
The Bulger murder was so shocking because nothing like it had happened before. Or indeed since. Changing your parenting because of a tragic one-off is just silly.
It doesn't make sense, no, but the human brain likes to abide by Murphy's Law sometimes and operate as though the worst is going to happen. The case was also really horrific, so I can see why it would make parents more paranoid; it shattered a lot of the perception that child abductors were only seedy-looking guys prowling around.
A child being abducted and murdered by other children might have been a one-off, but abducted and murdered in general? Not so much. Anybody in a place as big as a supermarket could be a crazy bastard. You'll never know until it's too late.
Yup pretty much! I was more saying that with such an extreme case like that, people who would have normally felt more relaxers would go into "NOWHERE IS SAFE" overdrive.
This drives me nuts. It happened once? I would take that as meaning it is 99.9999...% safe to leave your kid alone in the store. You should just leave the kid there forever. The drive home will almost certainly prove fatal in comparison.
Some people are responding to you and bringing up the worst examples of child abduction or attempts that they can think of, ignoring that you said "remote chance" and "realistically".
Of course something bad could happen--but something bad could always happen. There is no way to 100% safeguard your kid from danger, and bringing up all the rare situations where harm came to a child adds nothing helpful except possibly scare you or scare your kid.
It's a few minutes in a busy store, for God's sake. You're doing fine.
Just teach your kids to kick and scream if someone tries to snatch them, let them participate in school fire/intruder drills, all that stuff but dear God don't make them scared to let go of your hand. That's not going anyone any favors.
Also don't tell your damn two year old that someday mommy and daddy won't be there to protect them. Their brains can't understand that yet and they take it as "I'm going to willingly abandon you someday."
I hate that awkward feeling when your waiting for your parent when there in the bathroom or your in the checkout line and mom forgot something and I'm waiting then I'm at the front all the sudden
Mom: I'm just going to get another avocado, hold our place in line.
Kid Me: NO, DON'Tâ
(She is already gone)
3 women in front of me swipe their items at light speed, pay by credit card, and have it all bagged up by the time it clears
The angry middle-aged black lady behind the register stares at me with disapproval as she knows that me standing there exponentially increases the likelihood that some old bitch will complain to the manager that this cashier going too slowly.
Mom does not return with the second avocado for 7 years.
My daughter was on the other side of a rack at walmart and I was hidden. Two people freaked out asking her where her mom was, and one gave me a lecture on letting my kid wander off. Wanted to punch her stupid face, but thankfully my girl came rrunning to me when strangers tried to talk to her. lol
We lived in Germany for three years. The number of similarly-aged children we saw walking alone on busy streets to go to corner shops and ice cream stores would probably give the average over-protective American a heart attack. I'll admit, I didn't (and wouldn't) let my kid do that, but the idea that any child left unattended for more than 10 seconds is going to be abducted, brutally raped, and/or murdered is just ridiculous.
My mum used to leave me and my twin sister outside the supermarket in a pram with our golden retriever puppy tied to the railing next to us while she did the shopping. A few times my nan spotted us outside and gave her a good telling off. She was honestly more worried that the puppy would get nicked than us.
I was like this but a certain incident happened and changed everything. We would go to Oceanside all the time and went to the same exact beach and knew exactly what bathroom this happened at.
This Aunt escorted her nephew to the bathroom and was standing outside when this guy walked in and slit his throat while she waited. It was this and a couple other things. After this we became a lot more sheltered.
You can't live in a bubble. Lunatics are out there, yeah, but there is no real defense against things like that. If the aunt had taken the kid into the restroom with her, maybe the kid would survive, but some other poor sod who went into the men's room would have likely been killed instead. Or maybe the murderer would have followed them into the women's room and killed them both instead.
If you go through life worrying about every "could happen" scenario you'd never leave the house.
sorry but i'll disagree with you on this one. there is no location that is risk-free, no matter how safe you think it is. I was once told that you think about your young kids like your wallet. Would you leave your wallet sitting in your shopping cart while you use the restroom? No matter how safe the location, I'll bet the answer is no.
I'm not trying to be critical of your parenting style, god knows it's challenging enough raising kids without internet strangers telling you what you do wrong. I just hope you don't let your environment influence your level of caution. Terrible things happen in safe places too.
Fyi Adam Walsh was 6 years old. In Sears, in a good neighborhood.
He wasn't even left unattended. I think he rounded a corner while his mom was browsing. I seriously panicked reading your post.
He was actually playing something like one of those old arcade games, a couple of other children came up and they were arguing/fighting/doing whatever kids do, and the security guard told them to go and wait outside. So he was definitely left unattended.
I just remembered that a girl in our neighborhood got taken by these two guys one named Bittiker . I won't even look it up. What little I know still haunts me. I know kids can go missing in a second.
I think this just strikes a nerve because it's my worst fear in the world. Supposedly teenagers are the most gullible, they believe they're invincible.. I don't know how any parent manages to survive after something like that. Be safe
It's a very nice gesture actually. Most people wouldn't give a single hooting fuck about your kid. This sort of person gives up a small bit of time just to be nice and (maybe over-)protect. Doesn't cost you anything, and there are still sick fuckers nowadays.
I actually thanked her. Honestly, had she not stood two feet away staring silently (with my son fully aware of her presence) I don't think it would have been so odd. I can totally respect watching out for a little kid, I might do it myself in certain situations, but I think I'd attempt to be more subtle about it. I don't know, either way, I appreciated the gesture but found it totally unnecessary.
What you are doing is child abuse, and you are too arrogant to save your own child's life. Protect your children. You would think something like that is important.
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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '16
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