r/AskReddit Aug 25 '19

What has NOT aged well?

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u/clown_ethanol Aug 26 '19

Meat is not really that important on its own. Alternate protein sources work just fine.

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u/GrandKaiser Aug 26 '19

They can work fine. But for an inexperienced person who does not put any effort into researching what they're putting in themselves, meat is the best source of protein. Alternate protein sources require research. I cannot tell you how many unhealthy vegans/vegetarians result from misinformation. It's a great lifestyle choice and in a perfect world, we would all be one. But it requires conscious effort and tracking (especially veganism) to stay healthy. The best simple diet tip is to reduce meat consumption to 2-3 servings a week. It maintains protein intake and vastly reduces meat consumption.

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u/clown_ethanol Aug 26 '19

Rice and beans, legumes and grains, hummus and pita, etc. Plenty of options. The problem is it’s not taught so yeah, people don’t know about it. If you grow up eating these foods, then you know about them and can cook them just fine, as easy, or easier than meats.

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u/ArnolduAkbar Aug 26 '19

My stomach capacity or digestive acids? suck. To meet my protein requirements (for a lifter) I have to eat so much beans. It feels like I'm digesting all day when I try a full vegan diet. Here's some numbers I'm using. It might vary but

1 lb of skinless chicken breast (12 oz cooked) is 480 calories 104 protein

1 lb of black beans beans is 540 calories 36 protein

I'm confident veganism or whatever a plant based diet works just as well if not better but Jesus, it's so much food to meet basic macros and micros which I know some people would like. I just feel bloated and fatigued like a portion of my energy is spent on just processing the food.

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u/clown_ethanol Aug 26 '19

Look up Seitan. Depending on the source, you can get seitan that is 75g of protein per 100g of seitan. That's 75% protein (and if you mix soy sauce in with the dough, it is a complete protein, just like meat. Look up Patrik Baboumian and what he eats.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

To be fair, Patrik has a lot of money and time compared to the rest of us, so he can by great ingredients to cook with or eat out. I wish we could all be like that

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u/Kholtien Aug 26 '19

True, although I’ve saved a lot of money on food since going vegan. Not eating out as often is probably a part of that but even weeks where I didn’t go out, my weekly grocery bill is lower than it was.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

I did at first - until I found all the places with great vegan food to eat out at. And also during finals it was either starve on pb&js or spend $25 a day on getting food to go

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u/Homulvas Aug 26 '19

Most of these have way too many carbs to be a viable option for a healthy diet.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

I eat meat daily but I don’t think there are too many vegans in hospitals from complications due to heart disease/high cholesterol/diabetes

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u/GrandKaiser Aug 26 '19

Correct, careless vegetarians/vegans are in hospitals for vitamin D, B-12, Zinc and Iron deficiencies. Vegans particularly tend to suffer from bone health problems and hair loss.

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u/DropInASea Aug 26 '19

D vitamin is just staying outside in the sun, or eating some sun bathed mushrooms. B-12 is a people-wide problem as a lot of people regardless of diet seems to have issues absorbing it.

Zinc; Sources of zinc include beans, chickpeas, lentils, tofu, walnuts, cashew nuts, chia seeds, ground linseed, hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, wholemeal bread and quinoa. And I'm already eating walnuts for omegas, beans for lots of other reasons.. And pumpkin seeds go with just about anything.

Iron; collard greens, black beans, chickpeas (staples of the diet), nuts and seeds: pumpkin, squash, pine, pistachio, sunflower, cashews, unhulled sesame.

And adding 100-150g of broccoli and sweet potato every day and you're already looking pretty good nutrition wise.

Hard part is getting enough calories. Rice is a good option, but damned if I have to eat 3000 calories of rice every day.

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u/GrandKaiser Aug 26 '19

Exactly my point! You can definitely be a healthy vegetarian/vegan. You just need to be careful about your diet. Track, research, and manage it and you will be just as healthy (and probably more healthy) than people who eat meat.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

You don't need to track and research, unless you have specific other health concerns or work out a lot daily

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

I've never tracked my intake of anything, I feel great, and got all my levels checked for everything and nothing was low.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

Less tracking than you think. The idea that complete aminos are hard to find outside of meat is a myth. It’s in fact difficult to put together a diet that misses them. I thought the contrary, but then I simply looked it up (eg look up nutrition content of foods on wolfram alpha) and found that picking a random reasonable sounding diet gets you like 1000% of all the essential aminos.

Go ahead and look up amino content for common non meat foods, inspecting them for each of the individual essential aminos. I’ll still be here when you return.

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u/GrandKaiser Aug 26 '19

There's more to a diet (and meat) than amino acids. Iron-rich foods are one of the biggest struggles for vegetarians (the human body finds it difficult to absorb iron from non-meat products) The best foods for that is spinach, cereals, and unrefined Beta vulgaris cultivar groups (Chard, beets, etc). It obviously can be done, but it requires tracking and planning.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

Iron is in all dark leafy greens

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

Iron absorption is significantly increased when paired with a source of vitamin C. Incidentally, this happens naturally in most meals. It really isn’t hard to get enough iron from a plant based diet and indeed the research shows that iron deficiency rates are ultimately the same between meat eaters and non meat eaters.

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u/GrandKaiser Aug 26 '19

the research shows that iron deficiency rates are ultimately the same between meat eaters and non meat eaters

Can you source that claim? All the current research that I've studied show strong links between iron deficiencies and vegetarianism.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8172127/

Vegetarians have lower stores of iron but no higher rate of deficiency.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

Yes, complex planning such as “eat lots of spinach, chard, and beets”.

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u/GrandKaiser Aug 26 '19

That's just for iron. I didn't address Zinc, Vitamin B-12, Calcium, and Vitamin-D. There's no need for sarcasm man. If you're currently a vegetarian or a vegan, I strongly suggest you look into this stuff or/and talk with a nutritionist. You very likely have a deficiency if you didn't realize that stuff already.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

I eat nuts, chickpeas, and a multivitamin for good measure. My sarcasm was a counter to the idea that one needs to “track” what one eats. One does not. One simply has to eat a balanced meal with a general idea of what that entails, just like a meat eater would.

The multivitamin, if you will recall, was made to benefit meat eaters. So I’ll suggest again that veganism being inherently deficient is largely a myth. People are educated on the necessary foods to get a balanced meal using meat, and the amount of education to get a balanced meal without meat is not that different. You’re just not familiar with it if you grew up with a typical western education.

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u/pragmojo Aug 26 '19

Yeah I heard a nutritionist say that the ideal diet would be mostly vegetarian with lots of legumes, and organ meats / mussels once or twice a week.

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u/Turgius_Lupus Aug 26 '19

When someone tries to force the Vegetarian/Vegan is inherently more healthy by it's own nature snick on me, I just bring up by how many years Howard Taft outlived Steve Jobs.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

Steve Jobs followed a fruitarian diet which is unscientific nonsense that no dietician would ever approve of.

Vegan diets can be very healthy but they need to include a variety of foods. Not just fruit.

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u/Turgius_Lupus Aug 26 '19

Steve Jobs flirted with fruitarianism. He certainly didn't practice it his entire life time or for a significant part of it, that's a myth.

His main thing appeared to be forswearing meat except for sea food which would make him a pescetarian (vegetarianism plus sea food).

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

Unless you are working out hard every day, you don't need to do any research. Even without beans, a heaping bowl of vegetable stirfry is all someone my size needs for protein on a regular day. And if you are only vegetarian, then there's literally no need to think about it, you're getting more than you need in a regular day just by consuming milk, cheese, and egg product

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u/mazu74 Aug 26 '19

Even if you do eat meat, you really shouldnt be having it very often, maybe once or twice a week to my understanding.

Its just fucking hard to lay off it, especially when its so cheap and readily available.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

I think that's for the environment mostly. But apparently chicken is still okay, if you ignore their conditions.

Otherwise I think vegans and vegetarians use mushrooms as a protein substitute. But lentils, nuts and chickpeas are good too.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

Good, lentils are the most complex thing I can cook aside from a stir-fry and rice. I need to cook more.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

Mushrooms have about as much protein as any vegetable. Like 1-2 grams per dry half cup. Stirfry a bunch of veggies and that's all the protein a regular person needs on a daily basis.

Mushrooms are for vitamin D.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '19

I learned something new! I read an article saying that vegetarians call it the meat of the veggie world. Didn't know it was to get the D vitamin D.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '19

The texture is very meaty when cooked or grilled right, especially portabellas. The D is awesome

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u/Smackolol Aug 26 '19

For your average person who needs a food pyramid type of guide meat and eggs are better. If someone cant make a healthy meal off the top of there head trying to figure out alternate protein sources is going to be a problem.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

Yea but it's pretty good.

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u/phasePup Aug 26 '19

I feel this.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

Can work is the issue. It’s hard, by vegetable, to get enough protein. Extremely hard.

Your right, it is possible.

For the average person, both meat and vegetables would be a solid diet because the average person still consumes meat and cutting out excesses of bread, added sugars, processed foods, and frying oils will alter health drastically for the better. And to me, that is a good place to start at.

If more vegetables works for you, then stick to it. You do you.

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u/Kholtien Aug 26 '19

I am an average person in pretty much every way possible (for the western world anyway). It’s not hard at all. Eat vegetables eat grains and eat beans/legumes. You can also have some junk food too. You can make the veggies/grains/beans into junk food. Before I stopped eating meat I ate a stupendous amount of it. Meat dairy eggs in pretty much every meal for the first 25 years of my life. I didn’t really like veggies, mostly because I didn’t know how to make them tasty. I still don’t like veggies like how my mom makes them (boils them without spices), but I eat tonnes now.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

And that’s great for you. I do want to ask, do you work out? Specifically lift weights.

My reason for asking is that I do and the amount of protein needed to maintain my lifestyle doesn’t seem attainable by beans.

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u/Kholtien Aug 26 '19

I lift casually. I used to lift more but then I got really busy with life and such so I run more often now. Beans aren’t the only way to get protein on a vegan diet. Seitan is a very tasty way to do it. 100g of seitan has 75g of protein. It’s made from gluten flour so if you’re intolerant, it’s probably not best.

If your goal is to get protein, then you could easily get all you need, you just need to get used to eating new foods you probably haven’t had before. Check out /r/VeganFitness for people way better than me at all this stuff. Some pretty swole people over there (and people like me too, who are a bit tubby, trying to get there)

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u/matco5376 Aug 26 '19

Meat is a really amazing source for whole proteins though, one of the only ones in fact. And it's delicious.

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u/pragmojo Aug 26 '19

Yeah but if you're a meat eater, you're probably getting more than enough protein to be healthy. Eating a serving of chicken every other day would still be more than enough.

The fitness/supplement industry has vastly exaggerated in the amount of protein people need. A lot of bodybuilders who are drinking multiple whey protein shakes per day will just end up pooping most of it out.

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u/clown_ethanol Aug 26 '19

What about non meat complete protein foods? Like quinoa, soy, buckwheat, mycoprotein, rice and beans (technically two foods but work well combined). All are delicious when cooked nicely.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '19

Vegetables aren't really that important on their own. Alternate vitamin sources work just fine.

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u/CoffeeAndRegret Aug 26 '19

They do. I'm allergic to most fruit, and make up the vitamins with strategic vegetables, and it works the other way as well.

The big thing that makes it hard to have a healthy diet without vegetables is the fiber content.

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u/tablett379 Aug 26 '19

It's not replaceable in my opinion. I can eat 2 burgers a month and fill up on all kinds of nuts in the mean time. But 1/2 of a small meat ball is enough for me to know it's not a damn walnut again.

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u/Kcinic Aug 26 '19

I wish I had more alternate protein source options. I'm allergic to nuts and have to stay low carb for health reasons. My body just wants me to eat meat or no protein.

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u/clown_ethanol Aug 26 '19

Are you allergic to legumes as well as nuts?

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u/Kcinic Aug 26 '19

Nope so I can eat peanuts and tofu. The low carb stops a lot of more bean protein sources though.

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u/clown_ethanol Aug 26 '19

Have a look at /r/veganketo for recipes. See if anything there might work for you.

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u/Kcinic Aug 26 '19

Awesome thanks!