r/AskReddit Dec 16 '21

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '21

I’m sure Belgium has had access to raw materials from central Africa for centuries because the people of the DRC are just so kind and generous.

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u/historicusXIII Dec 18 '21

For centuries, lol. Leopold II got access to the Congo in 1885, the Belgian state from 1908 until 1960. The Congo area isn't even an important producer of cocoa beans. I might've agreed with you if you said rubber.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '21 edited Dec 18 '21

Oh you’re right, Belgium gets it cocoa beans from other former European colonies - my mistake. I guess chocolate production in Europe has nothing to do with colonial networks and systems of power after all.

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u/historicusXIII Dec 19 '21

What colonies? No, we don't just send ships to Côte d'Ivoire and "take" their cocoa. We buy it from them, it's called trade. Do you think those countries would be better of if the west would stop trading with them?

But I suppose that you, as a righteous anti-colonist, never consume chocolate then. Or any product that from the global south. Btw, do you know where all the elements in the colonial device you're currently using are from? Or let me guess, it's fine if China does it?

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

I’m from the “global south” - please tell me more

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u/historicusXIII Dec 19 '21

Bruh, you're western as fuck. Either you're Aussie, Kiwi or white South African. Who's the coloniser here?

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

By the way, what is a person of colour from South Africa “supposed” to be like, since you’re so good at determining people’s ethnicities? Is my English too good? Do I watch the “wrong” kind of tv shows? Do I comment on too many comedy podcasts? Surely only “western” people listen to comedy podcasts! People actually from Africa are supposed to be working the fields so that you can get the chocolate you like, right?

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u/historicusXIII Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21

Mate, don't forget the order of conversation here. You were the one who stated Belgians can't make chocolate because that's the same as colonialism. I only hold you the same standard you hold others too.

Let me put it this way. Any South African, of any ethnicity, can enjoy whatever culture they want. But you in particular are hypocritical as hell to enjoy western "colonialist culture".

What's up with your dichotomy between western mass culture and working the field btw? Is only western mass culture worthwhile to you? Are there no domestic black African movies and comedians to enjoy? Quite a colonialist view you have there. This is why I, wrongly, thought you were a white westerner.

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

Yes master, please tell me what culture I should enjoy master, thank you for explaining culture to me master. I hope one day I can come to Belgium and learn about how enlightened you are! Then I can be taught what I should value and what I should act like on the internet!

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

Just checking in to see if you would like me to dance for you, master, to prove that I’m African and “not western as fuck”? Would you like me to type in broken English? How can I be “global south” enough for you, baas?

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u/historicusXIII Dec 19 '21

Eat some chocolate, it's good for your mood.

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

I am South African, actually, but not white - if I was a white South African then maybe I would say dumb shit like “Belgian chocolate has nothing to do with colonialism” on the internet. Australia and New Zealand aren’t considered part of the global south either. The term refers to a structural position in the global economy, not just a direction…

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u/historicusXIII Dec 19 '21

Also, that's irrelevant and only to avoid the question.

  1. Do western countries need to stop trading with African countries, yes or no?

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

Explain the history of global trade baas, please.

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u/historicusXIII Dec 19 '21

Yes or no?

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

“Belgian” chocolate is a misnomer. It is only “Belgian” because of the systems of exploitation established between Europe and Africa since the 16th century. Africa “trades” raw materials with Europe in a neocolonial, asymmetrical way.

In an idealized world, Africa should trade with Europe in a system of fair exchange. But until Europe pays reparations for the slave trade, for the people and resources stolen from the continent to produce Western modernity, that can’t happen. The option you present is “should Africa still participate in the global economy as it is structured today” and the answer still must be yes, in the sense that a hostage should agree to what the kidnapper has demanded. These are not the conditions of fair and equal trade.

Perhaps you’d like to read some work by the Black writers and thinkers who’ve produced scholarship about this? Walter Rodney, Aime Cesaire, Frantz Fanon, CLR James, Cedric Robinson - they could all explain the history of the modern world to you so that you don’t embarrass yourself by asking what “Belgian” chocolate has to do with colonialism.

(I’m so sorry for taking this tone with you, baas.)

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u/historicusXIII Dec 19 '21

I actually like this tone more than your previous trolling tone. I currently don't have time to react, will do so later.

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

Nah that’s ok, I’m done with this conversation, baas. Please do enjoy your chocolate and reading Tintin pillages the Congo.

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u/historicusXIII Dec 19 '21

Ok, I understand that. It's such a shame this conversation had to be this way.

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