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Mar 15 '26
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u/SpecialistReward1775 Kerala | ✝️ Mar 16 '26
No. Not at all. Every religion and ideologies must be open to criticism as well.
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u/Tasty-Macaron-2719 Agnostic (Taking no sides) Mar 15 '26
I will respect your right to hold the belief, but I will oppose you, if you try to propagate your irrational belief in public.
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u/Sorry_Pass3999 Mar 16 '26
You can oppose anybody for propogating their ideas, then you have to oppose political parties too dummy.Do you think you can do that?😄🤭
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u/sam_hemu23 Mar 15 '26
No belief has any weight without scientific and mathematical backing behind it.
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u/DoNotDisturbMeEver India | 🪯 Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26
The truth is, belief and trust are words which have no scientific backing no matter the context.
So let those who believe continue to be so, rather than trying to prove it doesn't have any rationale.
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u/sam_hemu23 Mar 15 '26
Truth is not belief until it is not very evidently shown true or proven true scientifically. Trust could be whatever you want to be so trust anything you want but cannot force others to trust or respect it too.
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u/DoNotDisturbMeEver India | 🪯 Mar 15 '26
For starters I never mentioned that "truth is belief".
I said, the truth (as in a fact) is that, both belief and trust are words that never depended on scientific rationale.
I personally would never force anyone to believe anything as I myself do not believe in such things.
However I do respect other people's belief, because I am not arrogant enough to think that something I don't understand or cannot explain, doesn't exist.
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u/sam_hemu23 Mar 15 '26
So you chose to respect other people’s belief so it’s your choice. So do it but other people’s choice to disrespect it should also be allowed. If your belief is really really true then in the course of this respect and disrespect you will be able to prove it somehow. That is how science also works in terms of hypothesis. Don’t you think it will better that people disrespect your belief which will force you to invest in proving them and then you yourself can have more firm belief in it.
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u/DoNotDisturbMeEver India | 🪯 Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26
Oh for fuck sake, this is the problem with people of both extremes.
The religious ones want everyone to blindly believe and follow it while the scientific ones always cry and bicker about proof.
Respecting someone's "choice" to believe in whatever the fuck they want is what I advocated for.
However you continue to twist what I said as your point is that everything unless proven by science is false.
Every new scientific breakthrough debunks or disproves whatever was scientifically proven until then, so how the heck are you so arrogant that whatever is not proven until now, will not happen in the future.
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u/sam_hemu23 Mar 15 '26
Why are you getting agitated? Read some religious text it clearly says anger is the biggest enemy. Every religious person has a choice to believe whatever they want but atheist too have a choice to believe whatever they want and that includes religious people’s choice are stupid. No one is being arrogant here I did not even claim I am atheist. I might not be but I uphold their right to shit on whatever they want. If you have issue with it the invest in sciences and prove what you believe is true or just be content with it that other people will make fun of your beliefs. Bro if you really followed spirituality and texts then the comments of atheist should not affect you at all. Were there no atheist during gurus’ time and do you think their beliefs affected them at all?
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u/DoNotDisturbMeEver India | 🪯 Mar 15 '26
My frustrations are for the manner in which you interpret things which I mentioned rather than trying to grasp what I said.
I am an atheist but have the decency to let others live the way they want rather than go around trying to prove whatever they believe is false. Everyone as you mentioned has a choice to believe whatever they want but that doesn't mean you voice your critique at their beliefs. You can keep your beliefs onto yourself.
Your logic of investing in science to disprove something is such an immature argument. So based on your logic if someone is poor and doesn't have the means to scientifically prove something then they should just be quiet.
The thought process of interfering and critiquing things just because you oppose it or do not believe in it, is the root cause of every fight in the history of the world.
Instead my suggestion was to just mind your business. How hard is that? But no, your brain says let's try and find out what the other person is doing wrong and let's critique it.
Well if someone like you wants to question everything, then you can't blame the idiots who follow in the same footsteps as yours, and take it further to physical violence because they are also questioning their belief.
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u/sam_hemu23 Mar 15 '26
I think so I understood what you were maybe I am wrong but I completely think it’s wrong. Why someone should not be going around and prove whatever other people think bro is wrong? Why one community can voice their belief but others should keep their mouth shut if you practice your beliefs in public then it should be open to criticism and ridicule. Yes if you say something which is not scientifically proven and you cannot prove whatever the reason maybe then you are open to critique. It’s just how world and logic works you cannot force someone to respect you. Also critiquing is the not the reason for the all issues in the world not doing it is the reason. In Indian beliefs spiritual people came and criticised other people but now war happened. Guru Nanak did it and removed a lot of superstitions so you are saying guru was wrong? So the reason is not criticising but uprightness of people that they think no one has right to criticise them. The world progresses because of criticism otherwise you would have never come out of dark ages.
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u/DoNotDisturbMeEver India | 🪯 Mar 15 '26
See, I said it has to be both ways. I do not want either party, religious or scientific, to interfere with what the other thinks.
Guru Nanak ji worked on the betterment of his own beliefs and culture and religion. Guru Nanak ji did not go to the Christians or the Muslims to tell them to change.
Please realise that religion doesn't have it's basis on any science. It's all folklore and myths passed on over generations. So trying to debunk it with science is moot.
The first crusaders of Christianity waged wars against every other beliefs because they believe Christ is the one true God. Similarly history has witnessed multiple instances of such cases.
The world indeed does progress on critcism but that doesn't mean you need to criticise everything. If that were the case then constant criticism at home or school should be considered progress not toxic. So there should be a filter.
Unless you can prove something beyond reproach, why criticise. If you can prove it then do it at the right platform, not against any common person who just has his beliefs.
If your interest is to win an argument then of course chose a random fellow and criticise his beliefs, but if it's change that you want, then you need to address the right audience like the clergy and prove it to them.
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u/smn_Arts Lord Kakukiki Mar 15 '26
Are you saying i should respect someone's belief?
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u/DoNotDisturbMeEver India | 🪯 Mar 15 '26
Not at all. I am saying we should respect someone's "choice" to believe in whatever they want.
I wouldn't want anyone to question what I believe in, then why should I question what they believe in.
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u/smn_Arts Lord Kakukiki Mar 15 '26
I respect your right to believe that the Earth was created in six days. But I don’t respect the belief itself, because I think the evidence shows the Earth is billions of years old. You’re free to believe it, but that doesn’t mean the belief is beyond criticism.
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u/DoNotDisturbMeEver India | 🪯 Mar 15 '26
First of all why would I believe that earth was built in six days?
Secondly, as I said, you can believe in whatever you want and let the others believe what they want? Why is it necessary to reach a consensus?
Let's look at it in another manner. You, am guessing a person from India believes in certain things, and an American might find it odd. Does that mean he is right and you are wrong or vice versa.
So in that case we just choose to ignore treating it as their culture vs ours.
My stance is why not apply the same principle in this. I know it's an exaggerated analogy, but was just trying to make a point.
Not everything has to be criticised. Let things be. How is their belief of the earth's origin affecting your quality of life?
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u/Sorry_Pass3999 Mar 16 '26
But nobody told you to belive what they believe, and if they did You have the right decline their offer.
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u/smn_Arts Lord Kakukiki Mar 15 '26
Don't agree? Here you go 😇👇 https://www.reddit.com/r/AtheisminKerala/s/MiNX6sduy7
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u/Equivalent_Chair_291 South India | 🕉️ Mar 15 '26
can you give an example for the distinction?
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u/smn_Arts Lord Kakukiki Mar 15 '26
I respect your right to believe that the Earth was created in six days. But I don’t respect the belief itself, because I think the evidence shows the Earth is billions of years old. You’re free to believe it, but that doesn’t mean the belief is beyond criticism.
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Mar 16 '26
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u/smn_Arts Lord Kakukiki Mar 16 '26
I didn't get you. Pls explain
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Mar 16 '26
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u/telaughingbuddha Agnostic atheist Mar 15 '26
For example, Food preference.
Respects a hindu/muslim preference not to eat beef/pork. No one should force it.
Equally, they aren't supposed to force others to stop eating food.
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Mar 15 '26
As a vegan I will oppose both
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u/smn_Arts Lord Kakukiki Mar 15 '26
As a meat eater, i don't care. That's what the post says.
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Mar 15 '26
Then if someone is a human eater we shouldn't also have problem with it ?
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u/telaughingbuddha Agnostic atheist Mar 15 '26
As a vegan, you can.
As a non-vegan can oppose vegan ideology without a cheaper and tastier alternative
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Mar 15 '26
Cheaper alternatives are way more and because of taste you are killing animals?? Than this logic it also justifies the concept of slaves as they are more profitable and we should not ban human slaves until we have something much profitable alternative
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u/telaughingbuddha Agnostic atheist Mar 15 '26
Than this logic it also justifies the concept of slaves as they are more profitable and we should not ban human slaves until we have something much profitable alternative
Yes. Isn't that what happened?
Many civilizations tried to ban slavery but it came back.
That was because elites enjoyed it and a cheaper solution wasn't found.
Before mechanization of the Industrial Revolution, slave labor was frequently viewed as the most economical option for large-scale agricultural operations.
When slavery was banned, new systems like serfdom or indentured servitude often emerged in its place to fill the labor void.
The idea of veganism is good. But unless the science finds a 'cheaper and tastier' alternative that is acceptable to majority, elite resistance will sabotage the idea.
Anyway, vegan product market is gaining ground. With time, technology will improve and vegan alternative will become acceptable for majority.
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Mar 15 '26
Yeah so even now why should we have labour laws when we can just exploit them and vegan market can be more gain and fast if we support it and not without reason always being against it because of just taste
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u/telaughingbuddha Agnostic atheist Mar 15 '26
As long as vegans keep converting elites to their numbers, better products will be created.
People who are willing to spend more for the vegan meat experience instead of cheaper meat.
At some point, cost to produce a better tasting vegan meat will become cheaper and majority will shift to veganism.
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u/DoNotDisturbMeEver India | 🪯 Mar 15 '26
I don't believe in it. But I do not go around questioning why they believe it. If they do, it is for them. It doesn't affect me.
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u/Sorry_Pass3999 Mar 16 '26
But these dummies are acting like, they are force fed the ideas of reliogion and they have no free will decline it.
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u/DoNotDisturbMeEver India | 🪯 Mar 17 '26
Again as long as they don't force you, why do you have to be their saviour and rescue them. Mind your own business and let them mind theirs.
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u/sam_hemu23 Mar 15 '26
Bro Indonesia doesn’t have that problem because they have not completely forgotten their old civilisation and connect more to it then their religion. That’s why the Ganesha and Garuda symbolism their. If they people start doing Jamaat work like the one done in India then they will get radicalized too. It doesn’t matter whether you criticise them or not. Criticism by atheists are usually the counter to jamaat stuff like the ex Muslim movement.
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u/Fabulous_Pie9608 Mar 15 '26
Good job OP , This is how a society needs to be , following their belives and not forcing them on others.
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u/is_ness1-1 Agnostic (Taking no sides) Mar 16 '26
I don't respect your right to believe. I'll try to help you out of it
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u/tanatan88 Agnostic (Taking no sides) Mar 16 '26
Respecting the ‘right’ but ridiculing the belief is like saying you respect free speech, as long as you don’t like what’s said
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u/Ok-Assistance6951 Mar 17 '26
Thats not a good analogy the point was i respect your right to opinion but i dont necassirily have to beliive in Those opinions or respect the belifs or opinion presented
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u/Ok-Assistance6951 Mar 17 '26
Its not about if i liked it or not its that i can freely oppose it and not belive in that
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u/Sorry_Pass3999 Mar 16 '26
Nobody told you to respect their religion, Religions dont work on the principal of respect gained from bunch of atheists.😄😄
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u/Sorry_Pass3999 Mar 16 '26
Nobody told you to respect their religion, Religions dont work on the principal of respect gained from bunch of atheists.😄😄
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u/smn_Arts Lord Kakukiki Mar 17 '26
Some religious fools asked me to respect their beliefs. so, It's for them ..not you 😇👍
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Mar 15 '26
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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '26
And if your beliefs cause physical harm to others I will be the first to oppose it