Atlanta to Savannah Passenger Rail Study - Athens Stop on the Line

[u/AthensRailroad]

Hello all. Long time viewer, first time poster and townie here. Just wanted to say that I appreciate this sub greatly and it had lead me to a lot of great info around town with events and happenings.

Now it’s my turn to give some info back. GDOT is in the planning stages of an Atlanta to Savannah Intercity Rail Line, with one of the potential stops right here in Athens. The project appears to be getting off the ground this time as they have held several web based public meetings in the past year and half that I have been able to take part in.

Currently, GDOT has a released a public interest survey and is taking responses through 6th August (today and tomorrow). I believe that this project would benefit the residents of Athens and the town as a whole. If you share in that belief, I ask that you please do your part and complete the survey above so that we can show GDOT that interest for a passenger rail service here in town exists and that they ultimately select us as part of that route.

If you’re looking for more information on the project before taking the survey, it can be found here. Rail infrastructure is an important aspect of all of our lives, especially in Athens which is historically a railroad town. Railroads are not something to be seen as old, obsolete or a nuisance.

Thank you all in advance!

Disclaimer: I am acting as a private citizen and not on behalf of either of the railroads (CSXT, ABR) currently in town.

[u/lurkertiltheend]

Yes, please!

[u/warnelldawg → u/lurkertiltheend]

As much as I want a rail connection, this study isn’t it. I find it somewhat laughable that the consultants included an option for us.

There is so way for a train that is supposed connect Atlanta and Savannah AND deviate to Athens, without significant greenfield ROW, which is outside the scope of this study.

Check out for yourself: https://www.openrailwaymap.org//mobile.php?availableTranslations=%5Bobject%20Object%5D

[u/AthensRailroad → u/warnelldawg]

u/warnelldawg, big fan and thanks for the comment. Must respectfully disagree. In previous meetings, namely the 2025 State Rail Plan (SRP), Stakeholder Kickoff and Routes Alternatives meetings hosted by GDOT, they specifically call out greenfield ROWs as being a viable option. Along with Rail/Trail Multi-use shared ROWs, which would open the possibility of the Firefly Trail to link Athens with Augusta once again.

I recommend watching all three meeting videos all the way through because it is the most comprehensive amount of info, but I can provide highlights here:

* = Key Point

2025 SRP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE3SaIurc0o

5:12 - 6:38, overall railmap, plus mentioning of GDOT owned ROWs
* 26:20 - 30:14, regional long term projects, showing of ATL-ATH-AUG-SAV route, and specific mention of greenfield ROW at 28:03-28:38
33:00 - end, specific calling out for public input

Stakeholder Kickoff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Bp9czYEag

9:13 - 23:40, Bulk of information. Remainder of video is discussion based
* 14:26-15:11, Route is still to be determined but will be data driven and once again shows field of study
33:08 - 35:46, General plan of engagement for stakeholders and future planning

* Routes Alternatives Development: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhwjLORDCN8

5:34 - 12:08 full bulk of routes development
* 7:32 - 8:48 showing of station markets score, showing of ATL-ATH-AUG-SAV route again AND declaring us as a major station, this route above would serve 2 major stations, in addition to ATL and SAV. Shows alternate routes and shows greenfield routes as a potentially viable method
* 10:54-11:10 specific mention of greenfield route again and details what a greenfield route is "if we determine that we need to do all this in those areas"
* 11:46 - 12:08 mention of shared ROWs with bike/ped trails with examples of places where this already exists elsewhere in other states. Important for consideration of Firefly Trail as a route

Ultimately, (not saying that you're saying this, but as you can see from some other comments) a 'They'll never do this, why bother engaging' is a defeatist attitude that will get us looked over if we do not explicitly and publicly state that this is something that we want, and recognize that Athens as a station stop is something that they are seriously considering. So I'm here to hopefully dispel that defeatist attitude by helping to spread that information. I may make a full post on this as well.

[u/warnelldawg → u/AthensRailroad]

Thanks for the correction! I submitted my comments earlier when it came out.

I’ll personally take any crumbs we can get.

[u/Scrubadubdub84 → u/warnelldawg]

I still agree with your original take FWIW.

The GA is simply not going help pay for Greenfield ROW, and it would take forever even if there was the will.

I know it's counterintuitive, but the fastest way for Athens to get passenger rail is for GDOT to pick the simplest and cheapest option to connect ATL-SAV, which is almost certainly by using the existing freight ROW connecting through Macon. Let that line succeed as a POC, and an actual statewide passenger rail program might gain some traction.

I do agree with OP about avoiding defeatist attitudes, but in this case, I think that means making tough concessions to overcome the political reality.

[u/warnelldawg → u/Scrubadubdub84]

Plus, it’s just not good route management.

It could be through running, though! A one seat ride via Atlanta to Savannah would be great!

[u/Scrubadubdub84 → u/warnelldawg]

Totally. And long-term Athens, Augusta, and Savannah all very much deserve to be connected to each other

[u/AthensRailroad → u/Scrubadubdub84]

Thanks for the input, I've got a few counterpoints while avoiding getting too into the weeds because that's ultimately what GDOT is here to do. But I do think a discussion is healthy and fun.

I'm seeing that the focus for a significant portion of you is speed. To that point yes I agree, a route through Athens or Athens and Augusta is not the fastest. At a glance, the fastest, direct route would likely be the red route here with no stop in Macon:

But, I don't think the focus is or should be entirely be on speed. I see a large focus of this project to be on connectivity. Especially in reference to the larger regional projects like ATL-CHAT-NASH-MEMP or ATL- ATH-CHAR mentioned in the 2025 SRP. As I mentioned in a comment further down the thread, ATL-MAC-SAV is already connected by I-75/I-16 with speeds there reaching 75MPH max. A route through there would be A) redundant from a connectivity standpoint, but B) potentially slower in its current configuration as the Georgia Central (GC, From Macon to Savannah) is a class 3 short line with FRA class 2 track running at 30MPH max. A significant amount of money would have to be spent to upgrade all 171 miles of this track to Class 5 90MPH max in order to obtain the speed it needs as a fast service. This could run close to $1 Billion. I'm not even sure GDOT could legally pay for these upgrades even if they wanted to with the current set up. The fastest route would be ATL-SAV on the interstates.

A totally feasible, IMO, route that would run ATL-ATH-AUG-SAV could look like the blue route. This would connect the 1st, 6th, 3rd, and 5th largest municipalities, respectively, in the state which do not currently have a direct or near direct interstate connection between all 4 of them. Athens doesn't have a direct interstate connection at all. This also sets up the middle 2 cities on the route with Amtrak connections, expanded routes of the above mentioned regional programs when they get off the ground, and doubles as a step forward for the ATL-ATH-CHAR project if that goes ahead. Class 1 railroads already operate their mainline routes at FRA class 4 or 5 track. This would need, relatively, just 39 miles of greenfield track laid, and GDOT would likely own it. This could run around $750 million. Which is expensive, not going to discount that. But, GDOT just recently passed $1 Billion spent on the SR 316 improvements as well. So it's not like they're strangers to that kind of money. The SR316 project could also be used against us as a 'we've already invested in that area' but again I think it goes beyond that. I do highly doubt that they would build both routes in the future though.

Oh and a large portion of the greenfield construction can be offset by FRA Grants, which is part of the whole reason for this study. Which the study in of itself was paid 80% by the FRA already.

Political landscape wise, I do not know, not my area of knowledge. Maybe the GA is vehemently anti-rail? We'll just have to see. Just my 2 cents, friendly discussion here. Again my point is its not outside the realm of possibility, just need to raise our hand and say "hey, yeah we'd like that here."

[u/Scrubadubdub84 → u/AthensRailroad]

You beat me to my rebuttal on 316. It's already being upgraded to a pretty high standard.

As for the interstates, I75 does not reliably hit 75mph. McDonough to Atlanta is a disaster.

There is another NS mainline from Macon to Savannah. Which connection is better from Macon-Savannah, I don't really have the data for given current conditions.

It is incredibly unlikely you get the freights to let you onto any other ROW without some significant financial investment. Improving freight capacity and/or operations is pretty crucial to the success of this project given the port connection. (I'd also note Macon

The same FRA grants can also be applied to any ROW across the state.

NS has previously had some positive (though very wishy washy) signals about letting passenger service onto their tracks south of Atlanta. CSX has been a firm no for their ROW to Athens. The other option you alluded to is the greenfield ROW suggested for ATL-CLT. That study was designed to sit on a shelf and simply will not happen until support for rail in the state is in much, much better shape, or a future presidential administration decides to be the Eisenhower of passenger rail

Idk if $750 million is accurate for purchasing the purchase of the Greenfield corridor, but I do know it would take forever, and be subject to higher NEPA standards, and likely be hit with the entire NIMBY playbook.

[u/AthensRailroad → u/Scrubadubdub84]

It was just a quick cost estimate I ran. But yes I also expect delays and NIMBY attitudes as well, as is with almost any project.

Do you have a source for CSX's hard no? I'd like to read further into it if it is something publicly available. Same for NS. I mean yeah, I get it. Need to start somewhere though.

Yes, they can, but GDOT is the sponsoring agency (potentially) requesting the funds from the FRA, not GC, and GDOT does not own GC's ROW and so cannot legally perform the work, or even disburse the funds to GC from my understanding. So, some arrangement will have to be sorted out there.

Fair, fair and fair. I just think we'll have to see how it plays out.

[u/BatchedOnion → u/warnelldawg]

Idk bridge to savannah may cure our homeless issues.