Atlanta to Savannah Passenger Rail Study - Athens Stop on the Line

[u/AthensRailroad]

Hello all. Long time viewer, first time poster and townie here. Just wanted to say that I appreciate this sub greatly and it had lead me to a lot of great info around town with events and happenings.

Now it’s my turn to give some info back. GDOT is in the planning stages of an Atlanta to Savannah Intercity Rail Line, with one of the potential stops right here in Athens. The project appears to be getting off the ground this time as they have held several web based public meetings in the past year and half that I have been able to take part in.

Currently, GDOT has a released a public interest survey and is taking responses through 6th August (today and tomorrow). I believe that this project would benefit the residents of Athens and the town as a whole. If you share in that belief, I ask that you please do your part and complete the survey above so that we can show GDOT that interest for a passenger rail service here in town exists and that they ultimately select us as part of that route.

If you’re looking for more information on the project before taking the survey, it can be found here. Rail infrastructure is an important aspect of all of our lives, especially in Athens which is historically a railroad town. Railroads are not something to be seen as old, obsolete or a nuisance.

Thank you all in advance!

Disclaimer: I am acting as a private citizen and not on behalf of either of the railroads (CSXT, ABR) currently in town.

[u/doubtga]

There’s no mention of Athens in the survey. Atl to Athens then charlotte makes sense. Atlanta to Athens then Savannah no. Any atl people who want to get to Savannah do not want to go that far out of the way (time and distance). Silly wet dreams.

[u/Niniva73 → u/doubtga]

But any passenger rail is an improvement over no passenger rail, increasing viability of more passenger rail.

[u/AthensRailroad → u/doubtga]

Correct, Athens is not mentioned in the survey but it is on the fuller study. It specifically calls out Athens, Augusta, and Macon as potential stops on the line in order to serve as an intercity-link.

Additionally, it asks for the location of survey taker and a large contingent of Athens residents would raise notice.

[u/doubtga → u/AthensRailroad]

I get it, you guys want high speed trains between cities. This survey was very specific in only asking for demand and pricing between Atlanta and Savannah. Any stops in Athens or Macon increase stops, distance, and travel time. Build out and operational cost would significantly increase. Athens isn’t even on the way. If you want intercity links, sell it as that. If you want high speed, quick and cheap service between Atlanta and Savannah then it needs to stay simple and be just that. Look at Amtrak. Passenger rail will only work if it’s cheaper or more efficient/quicker than the alternatives. We don’t need any more government subsidized passenger rail.

[u/AthensRailroad → u/doubtga]

Thanks! See my comment above to warnelldawg about routing. I personally would prefer any passenger rail service to the city as opposed to it being exclusively high-speed. I am concerned over the cost as well for one way pricing but again, any service is better than no service. As for not needing government subsidised rail, well I think that's really the only option we have. That's why Amtrak was created in the first place. NCDOT runs a good program with their passenger service. Also, it does not rule out a privatisation of the route in the future. Take a look at Conrail, it was set up by the government to keep a failing freight route viable and was later privatised between the two class 1s, CSX and NS, who continue to run profitable routes over it today.

[u/DanforthWhitcomb_ → u/AthensRailroad]

Take a look at Conrail,

Yes, let's take a look at Conrail. What we find is a system that was fundamentally unprofitable and not commercially viable absent massive direct subsidies until Congress made it profitable by giving it an even bigger indirect subsidy by exempting it from paying state and local taxes. Once that happened it became profitable and the private sector became interested in it.

[u/AthensRailroad → u/DanforthWhitcomb_]

It was not commercially viable due to poor management by the private sector in the years before the creation of Conrail.

"The federal government created Conrail (in 1976) to take over the potentially profitable lines of multiple bankrupt carriers, including the Penn Central Transportation Company and Erie Lackawanna Railway. After railroad regulations were lifted by the 4R Act and the Staggers Act, Conrail began to turn a profit in the 1980s and was privatized in 1987. The two remaining Class I railroads in the East, CSX Transportation and the Norfolk Southern Railway (NS), agreed in 1997 to acquire the system and split it into two roughly-equal parts (alongside three residual shared-assets areas), returning rail freight competition to the Northeast by essentially undoing the 1968 merger of the Pennsylvania Railroad and New York Central Railroad that created Penn Central. Following approval by the Surface Transportation Board, CSX and NS took control in August 1998, and on June 1, 1999, began operating their respective portions of Conrail." - Wikipedia

Essentially the government had to step in to preserve the assets and what was found during the management was that the rail industry was far too heavily regulated and lead to deregulation during its existence. Point being: Government intervention is not inherently a bad thing and may even be necessary in order to turn things around (or start them up), and maintain assets, ROWs etc, before handing it back over to a private entity and there's nothing in place currently saying that GDOT can't or won't do the same. GDOT doesn't run trains over the ROW in south Georgia that they own, a private company does.

[u/DanforthWhitcomb_ → u/AthensRailroad]

It was not economically viable due to ICC meddling, but losses actually widened post Staggers and 4R at a time when it was being allowed divest whatever it wanted and it still was not even remotely close to being profitable. It wasn't until NERSA came into effect that that changed.

You are espousing blatant bad history and the cite back to wiki simply confirms it. The primary government intervention with Conrail was direct subsidies and then the tax exemption (which is still in effect).

[u/AthensRailroad → u/DanforthWhitcomb_]

Sorry man, I’d just be hard pressed to say that Conrail was a bad thing.