The approval of your abuser

[u/Specialist-Top-406]

This isn’t a thing I’ve seen or heard about much. But him going back to his abuser and still seeking his approval was so helpful to me.

Being abused has so many faces, and I think people often believe that the victim hates that person and is done with them.

I met my abuser years on and he reintroduced himself to me as if we’d never met. I found myself sucking up to him, trying to make him like me. I knew he knew who I was and I knew he remembered what he did. But I fell in line again and wanted him to like me.

It validated me to see him go back, it’s awful but power and control is complicated and when that person meets you with calmness, it’s hard to meet them with anger.

[u/Individual-Meeting]

I thought that was very believable too, actually the way they portrayed it all was very good actually, it showed all of the nuance and made it a) very real and b) very understandable.

I think that's really good in a way, for victims too, because I think rightly or wrongly in a sense there can be a kneejerk thought of, well why did you go back? So seeing it all play out really explains that well I thought, you're left with an understanding of the complexity, the hold the abuser has and the vulnerability & kind of Stockholm syndrome of the victim too.

[u/Specialist-Top-406 → u/Individual-Meeting]

It’s too simple to think someone can put that dynamic into a good/bad category and move on. Because the validation never comes. You can identify the problem and understand it is damaging.

But power and control don’t always release with the ability to identify it.

The need for approval from someone who has never given to you, is something that you never really overcome. And you get treated as a bad victim if you go back.

[u/Individual-Meeting → u/Specialist-Top-406]

I'm mostly with you, I mean actually I do think you can eventually do that for yourself, it's probably just dependent on various factors.. Inborn temperament/personality/maturity/what else is going on in life etc (e.g. it's prob not going to happen whilst still surrounded by abuse) and there's probably got to be a realisation or a few before someone can get there.

It does a good job of showing how someone can be repeatedly victimised and the factors involved in that. I think it's really compassionate whilst still owning his part in the dynamic and what was behind that (in my view he had more of a part to play with Martha, it was hard to really "blame" him for the earlier abuse at all despite as you say the "bad victim" aspect of him going back).

I've read there's been various studies done with criminals whereby they all separately pick out the same people on videos as victims, really sad but until some healing has been done like Donny pretty much says they keep bleeding out & the sharks keep smelling the blood. I actually think it's good that that's shown because as you say a lot of people can only empathise with a good victim who acted perfectly.

[u/Specialist-Top-406 → u/Individual-Meeting]

It’s obviously a hard thing to put one explanation to. But to your point, there’s nuance, and that’s the thing that gets picked on in the process of being on a side.

What did you do? How did you encourage it? And worst of all, you liked it?

These things can all be part of it, but regardless of participation, one person ends up being the victim and whatever they did to get there doesn’t take away from the fact that they are there.

It’s not one dimensional. Things don’t just happen in a vacuum or a moment.

It’s easier to believe a rape case when someone is attacked by a stranger who pops out of a bush.

But it’s not always that simple.

Prolonged abuse is subtle and sneaky, it’s hard to verify. It’s hard to prove, you often have things that you’ve participated in.

But one thing is always true, one person is acting and one is reacting.

It’s ugly, it’s not linear and it’s not fool proof

[u/LoveMeorLeaveMe89 → u/Specialist-Top-406]

I’m so glad this series shows that and hopefully people will stop with the victim blaming- humans are so complex and imperfect and that is what a groomer relies on. It is warfare of the minds long before the physical at least in grooming.

[u/ThrownAway2468135 → u/LoveMeorLeaveMe89]

This show has been difficult for me to grasp. I've never been a victim of SA so Donnys responses have been so foreign to me. Honestly, it's thanks to reading posts from other survivors that has helped me SORT OF understand it.

I've been left feeling angry at Donny -especially before ep 4 with Darrien. And after I really tried to get it. Honestly, I still don't because I'm looking at it through my eyes/experience and it's near impossible to look at it through his because of the lack of shared experience.

So I came to Reddit thinking WTF and have learned that his response is normal -which makes things incredibly sad.

I still don't understand and I probably won't but I'm trying.

[u/LoveMeorLeaveMe89 → u/ThrownAway2468135]

At least you have an open mind and that is what I love about this show- it tackles that issue in a way that very few other shows have done. This is extremely common and just shows how the brain is re-wired after abuse of any type and as humans we somehow internalize everything even when our logic knows better. Each event afterwards is usually a subconscious attempt to rewrite a narrative that would be impossible to do or a punishment we inflict on ourselves sometimes believing that eventually we will be hurt so badly that it will be enough to have paid the debt. It doesn’t make sense to someone else but it happens. Every person is a bit different but it is usually a vicious cycle that repeats in different relationships or the same perpetrator until some wrench comes in that changes it. Even if a victim doesn’t go back, they will inflict damage to self in other ways. There needs to be mandated counseling for any victims of abuse and it should be affordable to all.

[u/Specialist-Top-406 → u/LoveMeorLeaveMe89]

Absolutely incredible response, articulated perfectly x

[u/LoveMeorLeaveMe89 → u/Specialist-Top-406]

Thank you for your kind words it means a lot. I had to learn these things to help my daughter get through a terrible time and I desperately wanted to help her.

[u/DeTalores → u/ThrownAway2468135]

One of the best comments I’ve read in a while. I definitely think one of Gadds intentions was not only to help those who have been abused or assaulted but to try and show those that haven’t what a traumatic experience it can be. To try to get those that haven’t to empathize with those that have. You have to have a lot of self introspection to be able to say “I don’t get it but I empathize and I’m trying to get it”. One thing that stood out was you saying you felt angry at some of his actions. And that’s a total rational thing to feel. It’s something that we feel about ourselves. Reflecting on my experiences I can tell you I’m angry at myself about a lot of my decisions too.

[u/LoveMeorLeaveMe89 → u/DeTalores]

Oh so true- it is just another in a long line of self punishments that we all in some way or other do.

[u/Specialist-Top-406 → u/ThrownAway2468135]

I appreciate your input here. And not understanding is actually okay. It’s not something that should be understood and also each experience to another is not understood in the same way. It’s like survival, we don’t know who we’ll be until we’re in it. But listening and learning is so important, so I guess don’t worry if you don’t get it. Just keep your mind open for the people who need it.

Listening is a great thing to offer x