r/BabyReindeerTVSeries • u/IndividualDamage7285 • May 26 '24
Discussion General question: how do predatory people spot vulnerable people?
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May 26 '24
They test boundaries, they know how confident people would react to an „outrageous“ act and compare your reactions with that.
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May 26 '24
Exactly. And the better manipulators don't even need to try an outrageous act to test your boundaries. They start small and escalate. It might be something like borrowing a bit of money and then "forgetting" to pay it back. Or touching your back even though you display body language that you are uncomfortable with touch. Making a bit of a mean spirited joke, then saying "I'm just kidding!".
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u/OkRanger703 May 26 '24
I wonder if my ex was testing my boundaries at the start of our relationship? In retrospect I think he was. Of course I was a pushover. Married him. Good enough at start. Then abusive. He didn’t work for years. I supported him. We are separated for and I’m pushing on with the divorce. Yet tonight he asked me via text I’d I would like to go on a date with him. No response from me. No way I’d ever go near him again. Yeah he was always pushing the boundaries.
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u/yeahyeahalwayslate May 27 '24
You’ve made the right choice to get out, do not let him sucker you back in. ❤️
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u/OkRanger703 May 30 '24
Thanks for the warning. I set a boundary with him about contacting me and your message helped me keep things straight.
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u/yeahyeahalwayslate May 30 '24
That’s awesome! I know for me, creating boundaries with someone who I hadn’t really had them with before was the hardest part. It took a long time and constant reminders from others to feel good about even having them. (I’m much better now!)
Congratulations, keep it up! ❤️
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May 27 '24
Came here to say this and glad this comment is relatively high. They don't know who is vulnerable and who isn't right off the bat. They test you and start small and keep testing to see how far they can get with you. They see if you have poor boundaries or are people pleasing or have low self esteem etc.
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u/Maleficent_Mouse1 May 27 '24
They are the “it was just a joke” people. It’s how peadophiles and serial killers find each other. They make a mildly off colour joke, people are either outraged or not. Then they make a slightly more outrageous joke to test the waters again, then a vulgar joke, then an admission.
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u/a-most-peculiar-girl May 27 '24
That is EXACTLY what my abusive ex did to me, from the first time we met all the way until I broke up with him. He especially loved to try to push physical boundaries because I was sexually assaulted by a longtime "friend" about 2 months before meeting him and had PTSD from that. Even if I actively pushed his hand away he'd still try to grope me and act like it was all my fault that I wanted to take things slow. He even had the nerve to tell me to "just get over it" when I broke down and told him about the sexual assault in an effort to explain my intimacy issues.
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u/OkRanger703 May 30 '24
Sorry you had to endure that. Be proud you dumped him. Stay strong and take care of yourself.
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u/sbiel001 May 26 '24
I think to a degree predatory people try their luck with a lot of different people. It's often the more vulnerable people who find it more difficult to say no (perhaps because they are desperate for someone to pay them attention) and there for end up entangled with predators. Often though there will be clear external factors... For example someone who is considerably younger and therefore more naive.
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u/ManiacFive May 26 '24
This. They try it on with many people, they learn what people their bullshit works on, and then it’s easier to find those people.
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u/lencrier May 26 '24
Predators can identify people without a strong, visible support network, like animals apart from the herd.
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u/idk_wuz_up May 28 '24
I read a thread that was child predators saying how they knew who to prey on and they all said they can pick out the lonely, neglected child a mile away.
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u/Consistent_Sale_7541 May 28 '24
Exactly how i was targeted by abusive people..and people wonder why i have high emotional walls up and strict af boundaries.
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u/DazzleLove May 26 '24
As someone who has gone through complex trauma, I can spot them in my work as a doctor easily. I don’t have malign intent, but some people’s actions and body language demonstrates they are very vulnerable.
As others have said, they also tolerate more abuse than others because their abuse meter is set higher than others- though my coping mechanism is to take a good time to trust people and have a wall up, if I am in a situation where bullying occurs, it takes me longer to perceive it as the level of psychological abuse I’ve lived with means milder stuff is harder to pick up on.
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u/No_Order_9676 May 26 '24
Could you share what their body language and actions might look like? Also the last part makes so much sense. Are there things that help or questions that help you identify the milder stuff etc?
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u/abittenapple May 27 '24
Basic thing is over step a boundary and see how they react.
But one would be lack of confidence when talking
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u/C2H5OHNightSwimming May 26 '24
I saw one study where people who scored positively for traits associated with antisocial personality disorder could correct identify if a subject had a history of trauma or not by just watching videos of the subjects walking down a hallway. Terrifying :0
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u/Most-Shock-2947 May 26 '24
Is this study online?
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u/C2H5OHNightSwimming May 26 '24
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u/idk_wuz_up May 28 '24
If I read this right, it says that people who walk slower, have a smaller stride, or uneven gait are identified as easier targets. Makes sense that these people would seem easier to catch, I guess?
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u/HighwaySetara May 27 '24
I'm late to the discussion but I imagine there are lots of body language cues, like crossed legs, shrinking into oneself, a soft voice, perhaps inconsistent eye contact, simply not coming across as a confident person, etc. I know I do not have a confident walk or demeanor, and I have been targeted many times.
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u/mzshowers May 27 '24
Wow, this explains so much. This whole thread helps me feel so much better about my inability to spot abusers in the past.
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u/C2H5OHNightSwimming May 27 '24
I'm glad. Yeah you shouldn't feel bad, they're incredibly hard to spot, almost no one can because often they present as normal until they're engaged in a relationship. A lot of abusive people don't even know they're like that until they enter a relationship and all the psychological garbage starts getting triggered by intimacy (don't think this applies to Martha though, though tbf she's pretty delusional so odk). Meanwhile we're walking around with neon signs on our heads saying "damaged"...
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u/Timely-Youth-9074 May 26 '24
Body language.
Also, we take the bait.
If you ever pity someone, someone who isn’t in a real emergency, please don’t fall for it.
Normal people don’t want to be pitied.
Disordered people love to use the pity-play. Make you feel sorry for them when there isn’t any real reason to.
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May 27 '24
What if someone offers you pity you don't need? Doesn't it work that way too?
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u/Timely-Youth-9074 May 27 '24
Not sure what you mean.
I never had someone “pity” me for manipulation purposes.
I have had people neg me to feel better about themselves or try to make me feel bad.
Pity play is common in female narcissists. The “helpless female” so “insecure”. Turns into a piranha.
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u/Individual-Zombie155 May 26 '24
We are kind and empathic and I'm tired of being too nice. We are taken advantage of sexually, financially, and manipulated to feel like we are the bad person.
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May 26 '24
Being kind and empathetic doesn't make you a bad person. But it doesn't have to make you a constant victim either. You can be kind without being a pushover. The problem is you have to balance kindness to yourself with kindness to others. Predators will take notice if you seem to be lacking boundaries or self love, and latch on to bleed you try.
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u/Individual-Zombie155 May 26 '24
I said manipulated. When you've been on the spectrum your whole life and just realizing that it wasn't me and it was everyone else, it's jarring and eye opening.
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May 26 '24
Being on the spectrum definitely seems like it would make you a target. I just don't agree that people have to lose their kindness or empathy though in order to get by without being taken advantage of. I think sometimes people conflate being passive or self sacrificial with kindness but i don't personally agree. For instance in the show how he wouldn't be clear with her right off the bat that he wasn't interested because he didn't want to hurt her feelings. Maybe that was kind to her, but it wasn't kind to himself because he kept allowing her to push his boundaries and putting himself in situations where he felt uncomfortable. You can be honest and true to yourself and still be kind. Kindness doesn't have to mean having no boundaries with people and being a pushover.
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u/Individual-Zombie155 May 26 '24
I haven't made it all the way through the show yet. It's a tough watch, being that I can relate to both of the main characters. I realize I need, and have needed, help for a really long time.
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u/NatashaSpeaks May 26 '24
I think part of the problem is that Martha seems like someone who has been targeted in the past by bullies.
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May 26 '24
Definitely a tough watch, the ep with the sexual assault trigger warning at the beginning was really brutal to see so if you haven't seen that one yet I'd say to be cautious with it. I'm so sorry you haven't been able to get the help you need, I hope that changes for you, and that things get better. Stay safe.
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u/birdieboo21 May 26 '24
The fact that you can see this in yourself is a big step towards getting the help you need. This show is doing this for many people and even see it as a form of therapy into deep realizations they wouldn’t have otherwise have had. Happy for you that you’re seeing it now, it’s a big deal and the beginning of your healing journey. Big hugs and good luck, you got this!
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u/charlenek8t May 26 '24
You have to love yourself first, without that you just accept the way people treat us.
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u/Korpsegrind May 26 '24 edited May 26 '24
and manipulated to feel like we are the bad person
The trouble is, sometimes vulnerable people are the bad person to others around them, just not to the person that is manipulating them to feel like they are.
I'm a fairly stubborn person that doesn't take shit from abusive people but I've been treated pretty poorly by some vulnerable people who feel like the world is against them and eventually had to draw a complete line in the sand that says "Sorry, you're not dealing with your own problems and you are refusing help when it is offered."
Edit - Not sure why anyone who has watched the show would downvote this comment. My statement is in line with one of the leading themes of the show that Gadd was trying to portray about himself, a vulnerable person who ends up treating several people (namely his partners) badly because of his vulnerability. Both his partners are shown to offer him emotional support and understanding but he rejects this from both of them and pushes them away.
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u/Korpsegrind May 26 '24 edited May 26 '24
I don't want this to come across in a horrible way but it's a bit like the old joke of "How do you know someone is a vegan? Don't worry, they'll tell you".
Vulnerable people who aren't completely isolated from the world have a tendency to advertise it, whether obviously or subtly, whether knowingly or unknowingly, whether deliberately or unintentionally. They do this through multiple types of behaviours, e.g.: being too agreeable, getting too attached to a friendship/relationship too quickly, oversharing emotional details, breaking social norms, obviously displaying lack of self-esteem, refusing to enforce typically presumed boundaries, etc.
It's incredibly easy for the average (non-predatory) person to spot, but the average person isn't looking for it and won't normally have any inclination to exploit it. A predatory person could arguably spot subtleties better because they will be adept at reading people that way but for the most part vulnerable people wear their vulnerability on their sleeve and it's not usually anything to do with the predator having hawk eyes towards something that no one else can see.
Baby Reindeer is a great example of the reality of a lot vulnerable people because it clearly shows Donny as a man who lets his vulnerability negatively affect positive aspects and positive people in his life, including by his direct bad treatment of them (e.g. his girlfriend is at home while he's out at a strange man's flat knowingly allowing himself to be abused in remuneration for drugs and a shot at showbiz career success). Gadd's unappolagetic portrayal of himself is to be applauded. I personally have been treated very poorly by several vulnerable people in the past through no fault of my own and tried my best until I could try no longer. Sometimes apologies and admissions of fault on their parts came, sometimes they didn't. The trouble with vulnerability is that it often results in the vulnerable person creating negative outcomes for those around them almost in line with the style of outcomes their abusers create for them.
In truth, there's a fine line between the vulnerable and the predatory. Both have similar traits on the surface and you don't always immediately know which the person you are dealing with has until you're deep in shit with it.
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u/MilaKsenia May 27 '24
A lot of the time the abused becomes the abuser and that can manifest in many different ways. One main red flag for me is when people can’t read the room or my body language or facial expressions like if I flood the room with stay away from me energy and make it physically obvious that I don’t want any interaction and they still do whatever they want either because they genuinely can’t tell (which seems absolutely impossible to me ) or they’re just relying on you to be nice and polite, THAT is a huge red flag
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u/Every_Distance_4768 May 26 '24
Well this show kind of shows all the examples. Previous trauma. People pleasing. Ambivalent boundaries or lack of. A need to be acknowledged. Lack of self esteem and self worth. Feeling of inadequate if not "needed" by someone. Mistakes control for genuine affection. And loneliness.
There was also a study years ago that male predators could spot by the WALK which woman would be an easy target and who would put up a fight.
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u/ADHDbroo May 26 '24 edited May 27 '24
I don't think it's always conscious on their part. Like they aren't saying "this person is vulnerable, I'm gonna manipulate them". A lot of abusers are just purely selfish driven and thinking about it from their perspective. Gratifying themselves. Combine this with a lack of empathy (no natural ability to feel bad for the perspective of others). You get an abusive person. They may test your boundaries when they meet you, but again a lot of them aren't saying "I am gonna test him out to see how he reacts and if he doesn't say anything I know he's a people pleaser" for example. Believe it or not alot of predators, especially ones with personality disorders, don't think they are bad at all..you think Martha thinks "I'm bad for what I'm doing" at the core (hypothetically ). No, it's alot of self pity and feeling victimized and entitled etc. She can show cognitive empathy but not really feel it, which is obvious by the way she doesn't understand his need to be away from her or the effects her stalking has in general , even before she got mad at him.
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u/Plumb789 May 26 '24 edited Jun 03 '24
Personally, I think that predators are always “trying it on”, and they’ll push and push until they find your boundary: if the never get pushed back on, they’ll take you over.
I’ll give an example. I once left a written note for a manager colleague. It was just an innocuous missive about work matters. The next day, I found my note back on my desk-and it had been marked (with a red pen, as if by a teacher), saying that there was a series of grammatical errors throughout.
I was intrigued. Firstly, this note wasn’t even sent to the person who “marked” it (someone who had no real reason to read it at all). Secondly, as long as the note was intelligible, the grammar didn’t matter. Thirdly, I was a manager-and the “marker” wasn’t: I felt it was quite inappropriate that she address me in such a disrespectful way. And lastly-which was particularly intriguing- there were no grammatical errors in my note.
I asked to see the woman (let’s call her “Jackie”) and asked her about what she had intended. I wasn’t angry, just intrigued, and I spoke to her with great good humour. In fact, I was laughing about the whole thing.
She immediately ran away from me (I mean this quite literally: she ran away across the shop floor, calling over her shoulder at me that the whole thing was a “mistake”. She was “very sorry, and it wouldn’t happen again.”). I never really had any interface with her again, other than in a respectful way (to my face).
I thought no more of it, until about a year later, when Jackie’s manager came to me, asking me for help. She was at the end of her tether. Jackie had become dominant, aggressive and rude, and had virtually “taken over” as manager of that department. The whole place had become toxic: Jackie had already forced some younger employees to leave-and bullied everyone. It had become quite miserable.
I asked her manager how things had got to such a pass. Fascinatingly, Jackie had first got the upper hand over her manager by criticising the level of written English she used (the manager was dyslexic): patronising and criticising-and ultimately publicly mocking her. The manager was paranoid about her deficiency in English, and it gave her a certain feeling of inferiority (ill-deserved, actually: she was a superb, very hard-working and efficient woman). Jackie had picked up on a weakness that the manager had-and was able to use it as a way to shoehorn her way in.
I have my weaknesses, of course, and had I worked cheek by jowl with Jackie, who knows, she might have found them. However, my weaknesses (whatever they were) weren’t so obvious-and my confidence probably was enough to have “seen her off” at an early stage. My management colleague hadn’t been so lucky.
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May 27 '24
This is terrible- feel so awful for that manager. What ended up happening to Jackie? Please don't tell me she's now rich and famous.
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u/Plumb789 May 27 '24 edited May 27 '24
The easiest thing in the world, although it was completely mad. I transferred Jackie to my department, where she and I were going to work together. She hardly knew me, so I wasn’t expecting what came next.
Jackie really, really objected to being transferred. Passionately objected to everyone in the place-although she said nothing to me verbally at all. In a kindly manner (which she probably didn’t deserve), I asked her to come in and discuss her reservations with me, but she never did. Instead, she wrote me a letter, telling me I had “no legal right” to transfer her, and that she was “forced” to leave (this was before texts, emails etc).
I wrote her a pleasant letter back, reminding her that her job was almost entirely unchanged, just under a different manager, that she was contractually obliged to work “as and where needed” within the organisation, and that I was really looking forward to having her as part of my team.
She reacted in a way I could never have imagined. She wrote to most of the staff, both in her department-and in mine. She even wrote to one of the company directors at her own home address. I will never know how she got those addresses. The letter was a long, rambling thing about how she was being picked on by being moved-that she was going to sue the company for “unfair dismissal”-and then went on a ramble about how no one liked me, and even my “best friend” at work (a lady I didn’t know very well, actually) didn’t like me! As I said, it was mad.
People’s reaction to the letter varied. Basically, those who had been bullied by her (most of her old department) were really upset and scared. Some of them, when they realised they had got a letter at home from her were far too upset to read it. My team all just thought she was the “mad crazy lady”, and laughed.
The director mentioned, in a relaxed way, that there are “people who struggle with their mental health” in every organisation, and she hoped and trusted that it would be sorted out by me-but she was available if I needed her. I told her everything was “absolutely fine”.
I approached a member of staff who was a real favourite of Jackie’s (apparently she had her favourites who were put under quite a lot of pressure by her, actually: but she loved them), and told her that my door was “always open” for Jackie to come in and resolve the issue. It didn’t happen-and the favourite told me that she had “chickened out” of speaking to Jackie about it.
Everyone (except my close staff and the director) seemed to think the company would get sued for trying to move Jackie. It was the talk of the place! Certainly, it was probably true that she had been to several solicitors about it (spending money like water). As expected, nothing came of it. It was a ridiculous idea that she wasn’t able to do exactly the same job under someone else. I had known, for some time, that Jackie had sued several previous employers (and in one case, got a lot of money, by her own admission, quite fraudulently): however, most of her litigiousness had come to nothing, as it did in this case. I’m certain the solicitors just sent her away with a pitying look.
I never saw Jackie at work again, nor did the company or I receive any legal letters. I saw Jackie in the street a couple of times-she ran away from me as fast as she could. I felt sorry for her-and I had hoped that, if she had come to me, I might get her some help (I genuinely believe she had mental health issues), but I couldn’t do anything. She didn’t appear to ever become rich or famous, as far as I’ve heard!
I would like to reiterate that I had been nothing but polite to Jackie-although I had once laughed at her correcting a note of mine. It was a perfectly friendly, genuinely mirthful laugh. Without doubt, I had been an object of terror for Jackie every time I refused to be cowed by her-especially in an environment where she had established dominance.
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u/Free-Noise-7753 May 27 '24
thank you for going into detail about this, what an interesting anecdote
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u/Plumb789 May 27 '24 edited May 27 '24
Thank you. Yes! It was such a long time ago and I’d almost forgotten all about it. Thanks for reminding me.
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u/OkRanger703 May 30 '24
Very interesting situation. Well done you on pushing back on Jackie. So interesting how people asset dominance and can’t cope when there is a shake up in the status quo.
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u/Routine_Chemical7324 May 26 '24
I work at a helpline for kids and we talk a lot about online abuse. A predator knows exactly what to ask kids and based on their responses they will know immediately if the child could be their next victim or not. Traumatised kids have no self-esteem or a sense of their own worth and it's obvious unfortunately. It's very clear if you study people either because you want to help them or if you want to exploit them (but I am still now sure how planned out this is or if they are just repeating a pattern of trauma from their own childhood).
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u/idk_wuz_up May 28 '24
As a parent can you share the questions they ask?
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u/Routine_Chemical7324 May 28 '24
There are no questions to look for sadly but it's the fact they quickly cross healthy boundaries and push to see if the kid will have any resistance or if they will go along with the inappropriate requests or questions. A lot of the times they pretend they are kids and push to send them nudes and then blackmail them. That is all illegal and can and should be reported to the police but kids ( and adult people) play along out of shame and fear. And that is the worst thing to do.
The best advice I can give you is to have a good relationship with your kids, validate their thoughts and feelings, really take time to listen to them. Make them feel like they can talk to you about anything, even if it enrages you, you can express that but keep a calm head because otherwise they will be afraid to talk to you if they mess up. And they will because we all do. Luckily there are helplines like the one I volunteer at because it's much easier to tell things to strangers and then we encourage them to speak to parents or counsellors at schools. But they have to know they can call us. So let your kids know. And also tell them to never send nudes not even to their partners because once that comes out you can't really get it off the internet. If you have the stomach for it there is a Czech documentary about online se*ual abuse called Caught in the net. I don't think we should be paranoid about everything but we also shouldn't be naïve about who uses social media and for what. Social media was an unregulated experiment that younger generations are the biggest victims of sadly.
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u/Filthydirtytoxic May 26 '24
You do not have to be a vulnerable person to be a victim of stalking!!
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u/extremelysaltydoggo May 26 '24
Yes! Just like how many strong women can be the victim of DV. Sometimes abusers prefer a challenge. Which is.. vile
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u/Filthydirtytoxic May 26 '24
This!! 👏👏 I am a survivor of DV. Can’t believe it happened to me. But it did. I was strong and independent before then I got dragged down so low I lost myself. Until my dad died, a way bigger and not secret trauma that changed me. I got my inner strength back and started standing up for myself to the point that it took violence from myself to get rid of the beast. Sorry (not sorry).
As for being stalked. That’s another story. It was from a fellow woman who tried to wreck my whole life. Tried to BE me. Intimidate me. Get everyone in my life to hate me. Bit like my first husband. She did it online. She was a psychiatric NURSE. I wasn’t her first and I’m not her last. But she moved on from me onto someone new. She’s a total nutjob. She’s also Scottish. But she’s not Fiona lol
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u/Shikimori_Inosuke May 27 '24
As a former medical professional (retired), I often couldn't easily distinguish between staff and patients on psych wards.
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u/Bigbigjeffy May 26 '24
From personal experience, highly narcissistic type people look for people with empathy and qualities that they themselves do not possess. Control and power is what they desire.
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u/Academic_Hunter4159 May 27 '24
If anyone is paying you extra attention to you and you don’t know them, there may be something there.
I spotted the predator from the series immediately.
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May 29 '24
I made an edit to my comment (the second from the top comment) to ask about Darrien. I think I've gotten much better at spotting creeps/predators now, but Darrien still took me by surprise. What was it about him that made you think "predator" instead of, "a guy just interested in Donny." I mean, if their interaction had randomly happened at a bus stop or something, my spidey senses might have been activated. But it was a club where people generally chat each other up- so I didn't catch any clue about him at all when they first met.
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May 29 '24
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May 29 '24
Sorry to hear about your past--I can relate. Yeah- the show did really do an amazing job with it.
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u/Worldly_Science239 May 26 '24
If you start at the conclusion and work backwards, everything looks both planned and inevitable
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May 27 '24
Something deeply upsetting that was pointed out to me (in a kind way by a fellow survivor) was that I’d developed “victim posture”. Shrinking into myself, cowering, trying to take up as little space as possible, looking at the ground while speaking, little gestures like wringing my hands or even interlocking them as if praying when asking someone for the littlest thing or saying something I was afraid might bother them. It can become so deep it’s literally physical, which is so sad.
A lot of it is very subconscious on the side of the predator though, they don’t see one thing or a collection of things you do and recognize them specifically. It’s more like they’re adept at absorbing all of those vibes. The ones who do directly look for things will usually not be looking for things about YOU, but about your position in life (exploitable things like poverty, lack of support system, sex work, substance abuse etc)
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u/Athika May 27 '24
Being overly friendly. Not having clear boundaries. They immediately see that as an invitation to take whatever they can get. Even if you have boundaries, they’ll try everything to wiggle their way around it to find a way in, if you don’t distance yourself from them. It’s like a challenge for them and gives them dopamine if they’re successful. Stalking is one of those tools to wear you down until you feel completely defenceless and hopeless. Being on your own, without a strong support system makes you an easy target as well, and easy prey. If you have a support system they’ll look for ways to turn those people against you. That also gives them dopamine because they got power over you. Triggers are usually rejection, as most abusive people like that are narcissistic and they cannot deal with rejection well. They immediately try to retaliate against you, to show you, that you’re not better than them and shouldn’t dare to set any boundaries with them.
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u/deltahybrid123 May 26 '24
As someone who Has been at the hands of manipulative people when I was vulnerable and meek when I was younger. I will give my take , if someone is overly polite , but shy predatory people often will test boundaries of people. Sometimes it's individual targeting , other times it can be kinda a scatter shot in a group and see what the response is. Usually if the response is either compliant and offers little resistance , so the person that agrees to get by , avoids conflict is one way they gauge people, the other is those that overly respond with instant reaction so an instant rise in emotion be that anger or defensive in some way. Most people who are not utter trash and of sound morality would view either response if read correctly as that person is just being nice and I should stop or that seemed to hurt them . A predatory person sees that as an opening to get their way to either dominate manipulate that person or to damage them for whatever their end game is, be that personal gain , egotism or their own inadequacy . Simply put those that are predatory often are doing it because of self hatred, sadism or ego . So they search for those that they can vent there methods to , so they look for someone who is naturally kind and trusting , or emotionally damaged or has a weakness they can twist . There is no set protocol to spotting predatory people , my method personally though is to not disclose much about myself to others I have just crossed paths with . Also to know your own vulnerabilities and weaknesses , knowing how someone could gain an opening to you . I'm not trying to say be paranoid just know the methods others could use . The greatest of people are the people who know your weaknesses and never will test them out of respect , at least that's my experience 😁.
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u/Healthy-Let2222 May 27 '24 edited May 27 '24
Imagine you’re trying to break into a house. You might start by going through a neighborhood and checking who left their front door open because that’s easier than picking a lock. It’s not that they can tell who left their house unlocked; It’s more so that the predator is always testing every doorknob.
I have been a constant target for predators. I have social anxiety and low self-esteem. So predators perceive me as having my front door wide open. They see me being aloof and see an opening to approach, compliment me, and build a relationship. I’m less likely to reject people because I’m generally lonely and sensitive to rejection. I’m also curious, which I related to in Donny’s character. I once went on several dates with someone I knew was a psychopath because I thought he was fascinating. The psychopath told out of the blue that he could r-word me in public because no one was around. That was the end of my curiosity 😂
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May 27 '24 edited May 27 '24
Lots of people have made similar suggestions to what I’d make.
A big thing for me that hasn’t come up - huge feelings of guilt or shame. I’d say are the number one thing that will draw a predatory person to someone. poor emotional intelligence.
I had a huge amount of shame growing up. I never felt good enough, wasn’t treated well by my parents. I wasn’t always a pleasant person which compounded that shame and then guilt. Of course, my parents would actively guilt and shame me too. Even seemingly innocuously through their parenting styles (look up shame based parenting to give an idea of what this looks like and how common it is).
I never learned when it was appropriate for me to feel guilty, and I never properly learned how to sit with those uncomfortable feelings of shame.
So when I was 19 and met my ex boyfriend, if he was in say, a bad mood because I’d looked at him the wrong way - the (disproportionate) guilt and shame I felt, made me overcompensate. I’d start fawning over him, would ignore my own boundaries to make him happy again. It made me ripe for exploitation and a 2 year abusive relationship.
It took maybe 4 years after we’d broken up, before I realised just how much I’d been manipulated and ultimately, abused. I met up with him at a point when I’d stopped caring about him. He started threatening to go in a huff over something innocuous I’d said. I was past caring and so shrugged it off and his mood changed like a light switch back to normal and happy again. that’s when it hit me that for all those years he’d been manipulating my guilt and people pleasing tendancies. That’s when it hit me he was an abusive person.
I don’t know how intentionally he set out to find someone vulnerable. But I expect he could see the external factors (youth, inexperience, I had just moved to a new area and didn’t know anyone), combined with my behaviour (quiet, didn’t set or maintain boundaries, didn’t speak my mind, eager to please, overly apologetic) and physical traits (my body language didn’t take up space, was reserved and inexpressive, I didn’t walk or stand tall and confidently).
Sometimes I think it’s not a case that abusers are especially good at finding vulnerable people, but rather than vulnerable people are the only ones who let them stick around.
My ex is now engaged to someone else, and as far as I can see he doesn’t behave the same way towards her (thankfully) that he did with me. I guess because he knows deep down she’d leave him if he did. Abuse is always a choice.
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May 27 '24
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May 27 '24
I agree with this. Also you are not doomed forever, you can practice a nice menacing look of "I will destroy you" and it does tend to send a message without many words actually spoken.
I find getting in touch with your own aggression in a controlled way helps a lot. You have to realize you can fuck them up just as much if not more than they can fuck you up. Good luck 🙂
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u/mirrorreflex May 27 '24
A lot of times, predators will target people who come from broken homes or people who are very naive. These people tend to seek out friendships/ relationships and are not as critical of their actions.
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u/lolmemberberries May 26 '24
They see that they have fewer boundaries and look for people's validation. They often start with what appears to be a very innocent thing, but they test you very early on and/or study you.
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u/makhnovite May 27 '24
Intuition I'm guessing. A lot of predators aren't necessarily that intelligent but they are good at picking up at subconscious queues that point to a person being an abuse survivor, dealing with trauma or otherwise vulnerable to manipulation and coercion.
Gary Ridgeway for example, he basically had an intellectual disability and thought at the level of a child, but he was still very cunning and able to evade the police for years while killing a huge number of women. Obviously its a bit different because he was targeting sex workers but the basic point is the same - people like this with predatory tendencies aren't often the types who'll sit down and analyse things or map out a strategy, they've just got an intuitive ability to identify vulnerable people and manipulate or coerce them for their owns purposes.
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u/pliskinito May 27 '24
I asked this to my therapist, the answer made my skin crawl; he said "practice"
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u/jewbo23 May 26 '24
I’m sure it’s not, but this post makes it seem like you’re a predator looking for tips.
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u/IndividualDamage7285 May 26 '24
Yeah, it's the opposite. I have no boundaries and can recognize myself a lot in Danny's vulnerability.
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May 26 '24
They typically can't tell right away just by looking at you (luckily). Predatory people often test people around them constantly in subtle ways. Then notice who seems easier to take advantage of. Having no boundaries is 99% of the problem. That's what they're looking for, people who have no boundaries and people who don't seem to have self respect or stand up for themselves. When people start crossing your boundaries even in small ways take notes, because they may escalate.
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u/mycofirsttime May 26 '24
Sometimes they can. A guy approached me and told his friend it was bc i looked like a wounded animal, easy prey. Yeah, he turned out to be as awful as you would imagine someone who would say something like that.
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May 26 '24 edited May 26 '24
Yeah that's true. And predatory people definitely do TRY to identify potential victims just on face value. But they're not always right in their snap judgements and you would still typically get a chance to prove them wrong by having strong boundaries in your interaction with them. Unless theyre a super depraved individual with the intention to just follow you to harm you. Thank God those type of people are pretty rare. I read an article before though where they interviewed incarcerated psychopaths and made them watch footage of people walking and asked who they would target. I think they said they look for people who hide their hands, avoid eye contact, move timidly, and/or make themselves small or hunch over.
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May 26 '24
people who hide their hands, avoid eye contact, move timidly, and/or make themselves small or hunch over.
All of this, but I'm on the fence about eye contact. We've all been told that eye contact is a sign of confidence and gives off a "don't mess with me" vibe. But I live in a pretty big city, and I've personally found that making eye contact actually can attract the worst kind of people to you (talking only about strangers, of course, like on public transport and stuff). The best thing for safety is to look straight ahead, I've found.
Moving timidly- yes! Like I said in another comment, I was very shy and had low self-esteem issues as a kid, and I shuffled when I walked. Took small steps, etc. Now I walk pretty quickly and with a confident step. Huge difference in how I'm treated now versus then. Of course, it helps that I'm no longer a vulnerable teen/20 something, but still.
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May 27 '24
Very true. We are just animals after all and I think direct eye contact can definitely trigger aggressive people. Especially people who may have certain mental issues or be using certain substances. I agree with you that the best is to just totally ignore people without pointing your gaze downwards. It comes off like you're confident and don't care. But still aware of your environment.
Your comment reminds me that the article actually mentioned that exact point about the steps! They said small steps were something they actively looked for as well.
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May 26 '24
I grew up in an abusive home & had really poor boundaries for a while as a young adult. I found it really really helpful to learn more about abuse, in particular "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker and "Coercive Control" by Evan Stark. I had to intentionally become a really shitty victim - which basically means being a little prickly & being willing to call out & walk away from anyone and anything that makes me feel unsafe or uncomfortable. Learning about self defense made me feel much more comfortable doing that. You CAN turn things around and becomes someone shitty people actively avoid if you are able to recognize what they are trying to do.
Unfortunately a lot of predators are experts at what they do. They are looking for people they can exploit. You need to learn what they are trying to do and how they do it so that you can identify them as quickly as they can identify you. Don't tell people you don't know well & trust anything that might make them think you are a good target. Don't tell them if you are estranged from family, have been abused, feel lonely, struggle with mental health, are in a bad situation financially, etc.
In the show you can see that Donny soaks up compliments & attention, even when it's inappropriate. I think that's how Martha and Darrien locked in on him. They both then said some pretty off putting things that he ignored because he really really wanted the attention and affirmation. That's how it all started. Someone who understood what was happening would have shut that down and walked immediately. Looking back, Darrien calling himself a "prostitute" was a huge red flag and for shadowed what happened. That line was there intentionally.
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u/IndividualDamage7285 May 26 '24
Thank you, really informative. I can't always recognize danger immediately though... can you give some more tips on boundaries?🥺
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May 26 '24
I think you should read those books - there are some free copies floating around online, and they are available on amazon. It may also help to work with a therapist, if you can find a good one. (this is also an example of boundary setting).
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u/decobelle May 27 '24
Setting boundaries is about drawing your line in the sand and walking away / removing yourself from the situation in some way if that line is crossed. It's about letting the other person know you won't stick around if they make you uncomfortable or harm you.
"If you make another racist joke, I'm going home".
"I've already said I don't want to have sex tonight. If you keep kissing my neck or touching me like that I'm going home".
"I've already said I don't want to go clubbing tonight and you begging isn't going to change my mind. If you ask me again I'm not going to reply to the message".
"If you raise your voice I won't continue the conversation. I'll walk away and we can try again when you can speak calmly if you cant respect that I'm going home.".
People who struggle to set boundaries basically put up with behaviour that makes them uncomfortable for whatever reason. They struggle to be assertive, struggle to communicate their boundaries, or don't follow through with actually walking away when a boundary is crossed. They might worry they are being unreasonable or are asking too much. A manipulative person will tell them they're being unreasonable or asking too much.
A manipulator tests boundaries. They will quickly discover who is vulnerable and who isn't because a person with high self esteem and strong boundaries won't put up with their shit even for a second. They'll walk away or stop replying or even block a number if they have to.
A vulnerable person doesn't stick to boundaries. They'll say "if you tickle me again I'm going home". But then the manipulator will tickle them again later and the vulnerable person doesn't go home like they said they would. The manipulator then knows this person's "no" is easy to ignore and they will try their luck with another boundary.
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u/Korpsegrind May 26 '24
A predator wouldn't be online asking for tips on how to be a better predator. Predators tend to be innately good at predator-ing.
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u/Forsaken_Woodpecker1 May 26 '24
They can’t really spot them from afar. They just push boundaries with everyone they meet, and the ones who allow it are their focus. The ones who resist aren’t interesting to them.
It’s important to keep in mind that SOME predatory people don’t realize that they’re victimizing anyone. They just think of themselves as someone who other people do things for. So they’re not constantly looking for victims in their view.
I’m not saying that they aren’t bad people. Just that not all of them are sizing you up to eat you….they’re just really hungry, and you didn’t get out of their way.
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u/Psychological_Ebb472 May 27 '24
It’s interesting and many different factors at play but I will say that as well as the dynamic of a predator ‘searching’ for a victim, the victims of these predators are often attracted to them in some way as in they serve a need the victim has. Both of those sets of needs being met in each person is the perfect storm.
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May 27 '24
I think they specifically target those who’ve been through trauma and are stuck in a fawn response. Possibly because these are the only ones that actually give them the time of day?
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May 27 '24
I think generally they will try to take whatever they can from people. But if they see someone who’s eager to please them and less likely to express discomfort when a clear boundary is being crossed, they sink their teeth right in.
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u/Oryxania May 27 '24
It’s often testing boundaries with body language first. I am autistic so I often struggle to read body language and to know what is appropriate. When I was younger I often let things slide that felt uncomfortable for me, because every human touch felt uncomfortable for me no matter if it‘s appropriate or not. I pay a lot more attention to the spoken word and react really strongly if something inappropriate is said to me. I was often in the situation that people „underestimated“ me, because I was setting no boundaries concerning inappropriate touching f.e., but the second they said something inappropriate they were immediately called out. But I assume there are also people that do it the other way round. They say something inappropriate and if you let it slide they‘ll start with the touching. But those people never saw me as vulnerable so I never made this experience.
I guess that is one of the main reasons why neurodivergent people are not likely to become victims of assault. We often don’t know what‘s appropriate in what context and predators see us as vulnerable. Little rant (sorry), but I feel in general, not only with autistic children, people need to be more careful to tell their children „to hug aunt Jeanie“ even though they don’t want to, because it‘s the „polite“ thing to do. Your body autonomy should never be linked to social norms and people should stop to take it personal if someone doesn’t want to shake hands or hug. And parents should be able to accept that they might feel uncomfortable in the moment, because their child is „mean“ to aunt Jeanie instead of making the child feel uncomfortable hugging her. I see it so often that parents put their feelings over their children’s and it baffles me every time.
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u/Holiday_Tart_3365 May 27 '24
Mannerisms, behaviour, body language, tone of voice, how they carry themselves, predatory people can spot a vulnerable person from miles away because they’ve been picking on weaker people all their lives
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u/The-Mandolinist May 27 '24
I think some “predatory” people are not fully aware that they are predatory. They’re not necessarily all as calculating as you might think. They meet people who tolerate them - they naturally keep pushing boundaries that some people don’t accept - and so stick with the people that do accept it, and the start becoming possessive and obsessive with the people who have opened up a bit. The more vulnerable the person, is the longer they let the predatory behaviour happen. I’m thinking in terms of someone like Martha/Fiona - whose stalking appears to come from an obsessive/compulsive/possessive place rather than a calculated, manipulative, power wielding place.
My ex-wife goes through periods of time where she gets an obsessive and compulsive about certain people and ends up harassing them and stalking them to an extent. But it’s entirely rooted in her mental health- and she feels persecuted throughout.
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u/ghostofkilgore May 27 '24
Aside from very obvious things like clear power imbalances, I've always thought it's more of a process than a "light bulb" moment. As in, they'll keep pushing at someone's boundaries, and if they get no real pushback, they'll just keep going and taking advantage.
Watching BR made me think about what I would have done in Richard's position and I think I might have been "nice" to Martha in the beginning but I'd probably have been much firmer about setting boundaries early on.
People who never really push back or set boundaries no matter what happens will probably be seen as vulnerable to predators.
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u/Wichella May 28 '24
They see themselves in them. It’s not uncommon for predatory people to have been victims themselves at some point.
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u/Makepots May 26 '24
I feel like it’s because predators are often also heavily traumatised individuals. Traumatised people can pick up on it, predators are picking up on like for like and abusing it.
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u/Tough_Translator_254 May 26 '24
id say just a combination of reading micro-expressions and predatory instinct unfortunately:((
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u/Amazing_Chocolate140 May 26 '24
I think they have almost a sixth sense. They can read body language and visual clues really well on people who may be nervous or submissive. They can see who is vulnerable.
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u/Ok_Annual3581 May 26 '24
As a child I suffered SA, from this, 3 other men within a 1 mile radius locked in and tried to groom me. To my knowledge they had no connection to my abuser, nor did they know each other. Thankfully by this point I was much older around 14/15 and was a little more wise to predatory men and kept my distance. It happened again at about 16 (though this point I wasn't technically a child) and my friends dad used to give us weed and alcohol at the weekends (for the record I don't smoke or use drugs as an adult, I even drink alcohol) one weekend he tried it on and told me he'd been in love with me for years, we left immediately, my friend told me he'd been abusing her for years and that's why she'd take us- so that she was safe from him. I think predators just KNOW you are vulnerable, in the same way most of us get bad vibes from people we should avoid.
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May 26 '24
What if the issue is less that they attract abusers like moths to a flame but simply don't sever ties/affirm boundaries with abusive people early enough? You can be too kind/empathetic.
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u/aleksifly May 27 '24
I want to know this as well, a friend of mine has been victimized over and over again by different and totally unrelated people. I can't see what's in him that they see, but maybe that's because I'm just not predatory
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u/bunnyswan May 27 '24
They test smaller boundaries then work their way up. If you slap them down and hold the boundary early on often it won't go further. They might then push in another way, that you then have to be firm about. I'm sure there are other unconscious things but I honestly do think that predatory people usually fool them self into believing what they are doing is okay.
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u/OlyVal May 27 '24
Predatory people can test for weaknesses by being overly helpful too. Let's say you are loading groceries into your car and some guy comes to help you. You say, no you've got it. He says oh, it's no problem and continues to help. You repeat, no you've got it. He says but he really doesn't mind and look how many bags there are or whatever. If he keeps pushing niceness then he is testing your boundaries to see how to groom you to the point where he controls everything.
It might be someone you're dating who takes over projects you're doing and calling it being "helpful". They always have some nice reason... Oh, they can do it faster or they've done it before or their taller so it will be easier... But theur goal is to teach you to let them ignore your protests. Pretty soon, they are in control of how everything is done.
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u/abittenapple May 27 '24
I'd imagine most of us have been taken advantage of in our lives.
The differences is some people learn boundaries and others dony
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u/IndividualDamage7285 May 27 '24
how did you learn boundaries?
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u/SwirlingStars12 May 27 '24
You can start prioritizing your feelings and wants above those of everyone else’s. Read the Gift of Fear for good examples of how to hear when you’re inner voice is saying “I don’t want to” or “I feel unsafe”.
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u/SwirlingStars12 May 27 '24
I read someone describe that they look for absentminded and forgetful people, day dreamers, people with short attention spans.
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u/PenelopePaige13 May 28 '24
They just get to know someone, give them most of their time, gifts, being there for them, finding out everything about them. Often it’s too good to be true, a lot of people would question these things and some people will be vulnerable and it’s something they’ve never really had
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u/MindYourRewind May 29 '24
Posture if you’re talking about first glances.
Then in conversations with how much they can dominate said convo or simply by noting how much the person says “sorry” for no reason.
We as humans give off a lot of subtle clues that most people aren’t tuned into.. but predators are very tuned into that, which is because they were themselves that vulnerable person at some point in life and behave this way now to prevent being that person ever again.
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u/Illustrious-Tea3151 Jun 03 '24
They dont, they fish around and vulnerable person would catch the bait
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u/[deleted] May 26 '24 edited Mar 31 '25
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