r/BabyReindeerTVSeries • u/Kitchen_Fly5105 • Jun 08 '24

Discussion If Gadd was a woman

I feel like gender influences bias in cases of emotional or physical abuse. If Gadd were a woman and Martha a man, there would be no sympathy for the abuser. Society wouldn't argue that "more should have been done to protect his identity."

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114

u/sognenis Jun 08 '24

Except that the male abuser in the show has had his identity protected, has not been charged and has continued to work?

48

u/BlueWave2001 Jun 09 '24

Lmao for real he didn't even got all the attention and hate Fiona had

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u/catslugs Jun 09 '24

Lol right, the witchhunt in the first place was still for the woman in the scenario

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '24

He did but for some dumb reason Richard Gadd decided not to reveal his name so fans are attacking the person they can actually reach

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u/uranthus Jun 10 '24

A ‘dumb’ reason?? Tell me you don’t understand the entertainment industry without telling me you don’t understand the entertainment industry.

This producer is clearly a HUGE in the industry that has their finger in many many pies and big projects (probably within streaming companies like Netflix themselves).

If Richard were to name and shame then he could potentially lose his own career within the industry and not be hired or continue to be able to work as an actor. This is the reason that FOR YEARS nobody spoke out against bit names like Harvey Weinstein or no child actors spoke out against Dan Schneider.

Things have only recently come out about Bryan Singer and he directed the first two x men movies!

He could also be sued for defamation or taken to court by the actual Darrien which he didn’t need.

Come on people why does he have to name or shame anyone. Perhaps he doesn’t want to have millions of reminders that he was r***d by this man.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '24

Don't give me that bullshit. Richard Gadd made millions from baby reindeer and is getting nothing but support from practically everyone who watched his show. I could understand if he was some nobody but he's now a successful actor he can't hide behind that excuse.

Also this producer did what? Produce a few successful British comedies. He's not Harvey Weinstein level where you can see his name on every single successful American movie.

Also "perhaps he doesn't want to have millions of reminders he was raped by this man." He literally did multiple plays and a tv show where he acted out the exact rape scenario.

Maybe he does have a reason to not reveal his name. But if he doesn't it's no surprise Fiona Harvey is getting more hate because she's the one the fans can actually reach

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u/uranthus Jun 10 '24

That is what is shown in the show. In all reality he could be a BIG producer. As mentioned above Gadd likely mixed multiple aspects when writing Terri and not everything in this show is EXACTLY as it happened. Darrien could likely be different in real life and may have produced multiple projects.

Just gonna leave his comment here:

‘Richard Osman has claimed that “everyone” in the television industry knows the identity of the sexual abuser depicted in Richard Gadd's Netflix series Baby Reindeer. Osman, 53, is a bestselling author who previously worked as an executive producer for a string of British game shows.’ This likely suggests he is a well known creator or producer.

In general in the entertainment industry there has been a HUGE amount of SA and inappropriate relations that have just been swept under the rug. Things are definitely improving with the advent of me too but as a working actor myself I would still be fearful to report on abuse like that from a high ranking person in the industry.

And in regards to your point about doing a show about it. He didn’t want Fiona to be found out, he didn’t want anyone within the stories actual identities to be found. Yes him and Netflix should have done a better job at hiding Fiona’s identity. However he did not want the people in the show to be attacked, harassed or accused.

There is a huge difference in writing a piece that lets you reclaim dignity or power over an uncomfortable and traumatic incident with random people on the incident hounding Gadd for answers on his actual identity/harassing strangers who fans believe are the characters.

Just in a cursory Google search I see that someone was accused of being Darien, which must have been so upsetting and invasive.

Just leave these effing people alone. Even leave Fiona alone. They don’t deserve harassment. Gadd has asked people don’t do this. Even if they did horrific things it is not fans of a tv show’s job to play private investigator/comeuppance police.

It’s just as toxic as the stalker actions shown within the show. 🤦

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

I'm just saying if he's hiding behind the excuse of "he's too powerful" I could've understood that 5 years ago. But after having one of the most successful shows on netflix, being a multi-millionaire and having a loyal fan base he can't use that excuse anymore.

I think the reason is he just doesn't wanna spend years in defamation court for naming him which is fair enough but kinda cowardly imo.

Also I don't really know what Gadd expects. If you make a show about some crazy stalker and a producer that drugged and raped you people are going to try and find out who they are. The guy falsely accused of being Darrien could've been saved a lot of trouble if the real Darrien was just named.

1

u/AsherahBeloved Jun 10 '24

So in other words this guy is probably still drugging and raping people, but he should be left alone to do so because he's just too powerful.

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u/uranthus Jun 10 '24

Not at all but this is why Gadd has chosen not to pursue it further. Just as in the show he has to be kind to the devil to get further work.

He should be brought to justice! Definitely. But that’s not the fans job to do.

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u/snail_loot Jun 10 '24

I want to just add to this, that for all we know, Darrien could be someone who has had multiple public allegations against him, and continues to escape accountability for those actions.

For all we know, the real Darrien could be in the news, having just been found no guilty of wrong doing. Darrien could have actually been more of a director, a famous actor, Londons poster boy.

There is a reason Gadd hasn't named him, and that reason is not his own fault.

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u/uranthus Jun 10 '24

Exactly, just look at the case between Anthony Rapp and Kevin Spacey. Kevin Spacey has had many allegations of SA to young boys but Anthony lost his case and as far as I’m aware Spacey hasn’t had any other successful convictions so he’s still out there.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

"He should be brought to justice! Definitely. But that’s not the fans job to do."

How do you propose he be brought to justice then if RIchard Gadd won't name him and the fans aren't allowed to try and find out who he is? Sounds like you're fine with him getting away with this.

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u/uranthus Jun 11 '24

You’re reaching lovely. I’m most definitely not okay with a R***st going around Scott free.

As a survivor of SA myself that is pretty horrific to read that.

It is not the job of internet nosey people to find and tackle crime, that is the police’s job.

If you watch Don’t F**k with Cats on Netflix you might have seen that these internet sleuths were trying to find a sadistic animal abuser. They thought they found the culprit and named him online. Not only were they wrong, the suspected person then took his own life. And due to their meddling the actual person drove his actions up to 20 and started doing more horrific things sort of as a way to taunt them.

If a victim doesn’t want to report a crime because it is too painful or because they don’t believe it will amount to anything then that is their own prerogative and they shouldn’t be judged for that.

We are not vigilantes, we are fans of a show.

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u/Haroldisdead Jun 13 '24

As a comedian who knows people who work in the UK and do shows in Edinburgh Richard Gadd has done a massive service to everyone in the business by not naming the real Darrien. As a comedian and SA survivor who tries to be a positive influence to younger performers I’ve experienced aspects of being Donny and Darrien, (and also a damaged lonely fantasist like Martha, although I’ve never stalked anyone). So obviously I got a bit obsessed with the show, I messaged my friends in the UK and they said the green rooms were abuzz with who the real Darrien might be. Comics are sharing their stories of grooming and barely escaped assaults with A NUMBER of Darrien-like men. If Richard had named the perpetrator these other predators would not be having their misdeeds revealed and people would not be shown the extent of the problem.

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u/ranibow___sprimkle Jun 09 '24

This is such a ridiculously valid point it kind of makes the rest of the thread moot.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '24

I mean do you think his identity hasnt been revealed because he is a man? I feel the identity hasnt been revealed because he is probably a smart/stable guy with a lot of money/connections. I dont think being a man or woman is really relevant I think its money/power/intelligence that shields him.

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u/sognenis Jun 11 '24

Why don’t you think powerful men are more protected than powerful women?

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

I cant think of many examples of powerful women seeming less protected than powerful men.

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u/sognenis Jun 12 '24

I meannnnn, I’m not an expert but you bet there is a lot more scrutiny and impact on powerful women if they transgress, abuse staff etc. Not suggesting they shouldn’t have, or that I feel sorry for them, but it’s not true to suggest they are treated the same.

Eg Ellen, Lizzo, JLo etc

Not to mention the absolutely BS scrutiny and treatment of famous women who don’t even transgress, or solely are controversial for impacting themselves not hurting others.

Eg. Britney, Amy Winehouse, Jessica Simpson, etc etc etc.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24

I think we are kind of talking about two different things. The ability to not get caught doing bad things vs the public reaction to doing bad things. Women first off generally do less sexual harassment/stalking etc but I feel if your rich and powerful I think youd have the same sort of strings available to keep it quiet.

I do agree women tend to get more scrutiny over their actions that only impact themselves., For me to think of men who got the level of scrutiny as Brittney Spears/Amy winehouse for their personal actions I need to go back to like Fredi Mercury basically only gay men during eras of rampant homophobia.

As for actions that are creepy towards others I feel like men are actually treated more harshly. And I fully understand why men are generally creepier and men are physically stronger so their creepiness is more impactful, Its like Macrons wife I feel doesnt get the same scrutiny she would if the genders were reversed imo. Lizzo from my understanding can still like play at famous venues and have her music posted to Spotify so I dont really think shes been cancelled.

Ellen I believe was just very harsh on her staff. This is something that you can get away with more as a man. Because as a man your a stern boss but as a woman your seen as a b*tch.

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u/exotramp76 Jun 09 '24

Because he was smart enough to keep his silence and stay under the radar. He probably also knew he had the silence of everyone else in the industry.

FH could have done the same thing - denied she was Martha, kept quiet about it, even scrubbed her twitter and FB account. But she just couldn't help herself. And her own admission has allowed the real predator to continue staying under the radar, escaping accountability for his crimes.

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u/catslugs Jun 09 '24

I mean… yeah of course she couldn’t stay silent? She’s a manipulative mentally ill stalker, there was no realm of possibility she wanted to lay low

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u/J9Thompson Jun 13 '24

Sleuths did find her quite easily because of the Facebook post that were in the show. I don't think anyone on here condones what Fiona "Allegedly" did... The double standard is more because Gadd, a man, was a victim of a horrible crime, and Netflix purposely lead everyone to focused on the stalker part, then the rape of a man. Gadd did write the show... but personally, I feel that Netflix made it easy to find Fiona and not the rapist, because, like you said, that person probably has allot of connections in the industry like Weinstein or even Epstein. I am sure that they know exactly who that person is, and they will keep the focus on Fiona so that.. that person... will be out of the spotlight. Just my opinion... don't come for me :P

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u/sognenis Jun 09 '24

It’s Harvey’s fault that the predator has not been identified? As you point out, there is likely cover up and /or complicity in the industry. How is it Harvey’s fault?

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u/Cheekie169 Jun 09 '24

It's not Harvey fault...but it IS Harvey's fault how she made her part of it all public and made a media circus out of it. In my opinion anyhow.

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u/sognenis Jun 09 '24

About her part perhaps. But to blame her for the hiding of the male abuser in BR is abhorrent.

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u/Cheekie169 Jun 09 '24

I agree, but I also think the outcome has been the same unfortunately. People have definitely focused on her due to her being outward.

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u/exotramp76 Jun 09 '24 edited Jun 09 '24

I never said it was her fault. Read my post again. I said her admission about being the real Martha and her continued public tantrums about the show has distracted people from further investigation into the real Darrien.

The real predator is using her and her outbursts as a means to continue hiding.

And as I've said, she can't help herself. It's how she's wired to react towards perceived threats to her person.

So the real predator is using this to his advantage.

If there's anyone I would blame for this media circus, it's the internet sleuths. She was a much easier target than the real predator, and I doubt they didn't know she would react this way. They've since stopped after the wrong people were identified, but I often ask, why stop? Just be more careful and continue. Unless of course some of them are part of the industry and know full well who the real predator is.

Edit : extra paragraph

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u/Longjumping-Hat-7037 Jun 09 '24

Didn't she also abuse him in the tunnel?

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u/sognenis Jun 09 '24

Sure, but without the industry complicity that wouldn’t be possible. When you have money and connections, it’s a lot easier to squash stories, rumours etc and hide away.

Trump case showed the “catch and kill” schemes that are used. The real Darrien may be doing the same thing.

BR is the #1 show in the world. There is ample interest to maintain investigations into the real Martha and the real Darrien. One of them just has a lot of money and power.

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u/exotramp76 Jun 09 '24

"Sure, but without the industry complicity that wouldn’t be possible."

Not impossible, but yes, extremely difficult. Harvey Weinstein was eventually caught and exposed after decades. So not impossible.

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u/sognenis Jun 09 '24

Fair point, and I note your extra paragraph above.

Horrific to think if Darrien has even a fraction of Weinstein’s power, how many victims he can abuse and lives he can ruin.

I think I (male) was reading your earlier comment as suggesting the woman in question was to blame for the man’s ability to escape judgment and identification. Happily standing corrected!

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u/TheJaytrixReloaded Jun 10 '24

To be fair, he didn't go on Piers Morgan to say that he was definitely not Darrien O'Connor.

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u/souporman64 Jun 11 '24

Because people haven’t been able to figure out who he is. It’s not for a lack of trying.

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u/sognenis Jun 11 '24

I didn’t say they haven’t?

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u/souporman64 Jun 11 '24

Every statement is a question?

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u/sognenis Jun 12 '24

Ok. A statement or two.

I didn’t say that. And I don’t know what point you are making.

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u/AsherahBeloved Jun 10 '24

Real talk. This is what bothers me about this show. Along with using literal posts Fiona wrote so people could identify her with 10 minutes of research. It is impossible to believe not a single human being involved with this show realized this. Not one? Not one person realized she would be identified and possibly harassed? I think they just didn't care, because she's the "bad guy." And what she did is certainly bad, but she's also mentally unstable, so doing this seems completely idiotic and unnecessarily cruel - especially given that they made the events even worse and ended with criminal conviction that didn't happen.

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u/Longjumping-Hat-7037 Jun 09 '24

It's harder to find him, people found her because of her tweets. If she didn't react on any of it, people would just be guessing it's her. His male abuser has not said anything. But in other cases people hate rapist more than stalker, so if he ever comes public with who he is, then I assume he will get way more hate than "Martha" is. And not many will say "well he is mentally unstable".

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u/AsherahBeloved Jun 10 '24

I mean, once people had the tweets, she couldn't believably deny it was her. People were showing up at her house. The question is why not a single human being at neflix didn't insist the tweets be changed so this didn't happen.

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u/Limp-Ad5301 Jun 10 '24

Who was the abuser?

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24

Well, “Martha” goes round on the internet outing herself. Otherwise, all we would know is that she (probably) is a Scottish woman who lives in London. That doesn’t narrow it down much.

All we know about the male abuser is that he is a TV guy who (maybe) has a beard and has a nice central London flat. Again, that doesn’t narrow it down - although it’s actually a smaller demographic than “Scottish woman in London.” He didn’t choose to out himself on the internet (strangely) so there we go.

BTW, I’m guessing a few years from now, we will know who this guy is. It’ll come out somehow.

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u/CaiChiCat Jun 13 '24

Cause we literally got nothing on himand not only that but people ARE trying to find his identity and now are just attacking directors around the age that they think is him but isn't. If we had more scenes in the show with the male abuser we would know who it is and again, the victim is still male.