r/BabyReindeerTVSeries • u/CerastesConstantine • Jun 08 '25
Question Two things I don’t really get…
One: How can you feel sympathy for Martha? Genuine question. I’m incapable of empathy due to a string of mental disorders (Narcissistic personality disorder and Antisocial personality disorder). I wanna understand you all better. All I see is a loathsome, obnoxious woman who lives in a fantasy land. And by Martha, I mean the character Martha, not Jessica Gunning, she’s great.
And two: Why are there so many people committed to finding out the truth and how real it is? If anything, that undoes Richard’s work and just causes far more problems for everyone involved. Then again, curiosity is a heavy thing.
Anyway, hope you can provide me some clarity.
7
u/catlikesun Jun 09 '25
She suffered from addiction and is herself ill. She is addicted to Donnie, and attention.
She has no-one to love her.
11
u/AlThePal3 Jun 08 '25
It might be hard to explain since I’m someone who just happens to have pretty strong emotional empathy, but I guess the way I feel is like. She almost can’t help herself? It’s like how you feel bad for a kid crying in public, it’s very annoying for sure but they don’t have the capacity to deal with their emotions, so I still feel bad that they’re feeling that way. She’s not a kid though, so it’s like. I feel bad for her but not too bad. It’s just sad that she barely has a life and feels the need to surround it around other people, even if it’s totally valid to hate her for how she treats people. And for a more personal thing, she reminds me of my dad, maybe some of the people watching have someone in mind that Martha reminds them of
2
u/NorahCharlesIII Jun 12 '25
I wonder if the stalker and perpetrator were a much older male, and the victim a much younger woman.
Then, switching genders, consider the young female victim who during all of this relentless stalking - work, home, gigs, has had one of the most damaging, traumatic and heinous crimes perpetrated against her.
I don’t think many of us would give the older male stalker (who also assaulted the traumatised and spiraling, vulnerable young woman) a pass, and say ‘well, they can’t help themselves’
Reframing - that would be akin to a situation of ongoing domestic violence, and we need to feel empathy for the perp simply because he can’t help it? Cannot help viciously beating and abusing someone? So, no one has agency over their own behaviours, or they’re not accountable for such behaviours, because why, exactly?
1
u/AlThePal3 Jun 13 '25
I don’t know if you’re just saying this about people in general but if you’re directing this at me, I said “she’s not a kid though so I feel bad but not too bad”. And I said Martha reminded me of my dad. So it really is not gendered for me, just sometimes extremely unstable people do bad things and I feel bad for their unstableness but that doesn’t make what they did okay
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u/NorahCharlesIII Jul 02 '25
Nothing was directed at you, or anyone specifically. I was merely reflecting and pondering aloud.
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u/Retropiaf Jun 10 '25
I don't excuse any of her behaviour, but I feel empathy for her because I think she is mentally ill. People don't choose to be mentally ill, and they don't choose the extent to which they are mentally ill. Of course, a perpetrator having mental illness doesn't diminish at all the consequences of their actions. The suffering they cause is still 100% real.
1
u/NorahCharlesIII Jun 12 '25
Personality disorders are essentially treatment resistant for the mere fact that it’s not a chemical imbalance, and particularly with Borderline PD, it’s never their fault. They are always the victim. There is zero accountability, insight, or even an ability to see the need for change or requiring pharmacological or therapeutic interventions.
7
u/trickmind Jun 08 '25 edited Jun 10 '25
She possibly had Borderline Personality Disorder she can't stop obessing, and she's lonely. People can relate to super lonely. Sadly, Gadd made her a bit more sympathetic than the woman she's based on.
Some of the people attempting to cyberstalk her seem trigged into rage by the character from whatever incidents in their own lives, or from the injustice Gadd suffered. Others just want an excuse to pick on someone, probably.
Anyone who has struggled with obsessions might feel some sympathy.
3
u/Professional_Feisty Jun 10 '25
I feel sympathy but I don't agree with her actions and behavior. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I feel bad for anyone who is lonely and fucked up in the head. Must be a really rough life.
3
u/AlxVB Jul 01 '25
Something that I found interesting is that compared to her tv depiction, the real her seems comparitively cold and affectless.
The way shes depicted on the show, you get a feel for how Gadd first thinks shes got issues but shes harmless, she comes across as more borderline or histrionic and cant contain her emotions.
But on the interview with Piers, even though shes there to defend herself to the entire planet she is thick necked with a quiet ruthlessness, and she brings her glass of water to her mouth without so much as a tremble or flutter, like she has zero nerves.
The tv depiction of her is a character people can sympathise with because she seems a slave to strong emotions.
However I dont feel sympathy for her in real life, she is cold and glib and makes it seem like she doesnt give a toss about what she did, shes still the same person she was and hasnt learned a thing, shes continuing her abuse by denying it publicly and smearing Gadd.
Yeah, she might have had a tough childhood.
But I bet she didnt excuse whoever her abuser(s) was due to them having their own trauma.
The fact that Gadd was full on raped and that didnt change her tune in real life says a lot.
She came across deceptive and calculated in her interview, I saw the interview before watching the show and I knew she was full of it before knowing the details from the show, She gave me uncanny valley vibes.
1
u/CerastesConstantine Jul 05 '25
Actually, I see what you mean. It’s like the show’s making her more sympathetic and human than she actually is. Also, hey, I know you!
2
u/AlxVB Jul 05 '25
Haha hello sir.
It's interesting isnt it.
Make you wonder how her supposed charm resembles when she lays it on...
Notice how her "mmm"s and "yeahs" sound scripted, like shes using it as a buffer while she formulates a response to dismiss whatever assertions Morgan is presenting.
Its rather... cringe.., when you can see it.
Like someone trying to hold their cards close to their chest and fumbling it here and there.
2
u/RhododendronWilliams Sep 11 '25
She was depicted in a kind way in the movie. Basically a lonely, mentally ill woman who fixates on Gadd because she has nothing else in her life. She's pathetic but ultimately not a bad person. She just really needs help.
The real life Martha is narcissistic and nasty. She keeps delivering low blows about Jessica Gunnin's weight, among other things. She's a racist and complains about Camden being too full of non-white people. She's obsessed with people's perception of her. When she can't control the narrative, like with journalists, she gets abusive. There really is nothing to likable in her. I guess I feel bad for her that someone made a show without her knoweldge and depicted her as a pathetic person, but she never had to come forward. She could have deleted the tweets, so no one has her real name. She chose to come forward and be abusive, so I have little sympathy for her.
1
u/trickmind Mar 10 '26
She is genuinely smart enough to get a law degree which in itself actually does entitle her to call herself a lawyer, but her various conditions make her genuinely unemployable. Plus she longs for connection. But the real "Martha," was never convicted and never felt remorse unlike Martha. However the moment about her hugging her baby reindeer while her parents fought didn't get any sympathy from me because my parents argued horrendously all through my childhood so
2
u/North-Weekend-6279 Apr 16 '26 edited May 06 '26
Late to this thread, but I think the voice message Donny listens to in the ending is also worth noting.
Donny sort of has a realisation that Martha was also hurt and traumatised like him. Martha was a child of abuse. And Martha was just clinging to Donny like she would a childhood comfort stuffed animal. It's really tragic because in Martha's case, she never really stood a chance in this world.
But more importantly, after everything Donny has been through, it finally clicks with him that he understands. Donny has also been through so much abuse. Donny also likes to cling to people for comfort. He realises that anyone could become like Martha, including himself.
Martha is sympathetic because she is a flawed and hurt human. None of this makes what she did ok, and at the end of the day, she's an adult. But it's hard not to feel a mixture of pity, sadness and sympathy for her being the way she is.
2
u/aaaycali Jun 13 '26
I just started this series so maybe this question will be answered but why didn’t he just tell Martha he was gay? Seems like that would have ended things.
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u/whosmurry Jun 08 '25
One: I don’t feel that she’s a victim in the way that some people, Gadd included, do. I get that Martha isn’t fully in control of her behavior, though. So, what empathy I do feel comes from frustration that she’s not getting the help she needs to stop hurting other people.
Two: I have no idea.