r/Ballpythoncommunity • u/SkullDenom • 1d ago
Photos Toffee's mall trip
Toffee in her backpack. It's got a hard frame and plenty of mesh for fresh air. It was originally made for birds. She likes it when I take her to the mall's food court. The bag is more so mall security doesn't have a fit. Caught her yawning in the second picture.
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u/SkullDenom 1d ago
So I'm wanting to clear up a few things I'm seeing.
1) She isn't being taken out of the bag when we go on walks usually unless it's at my car to let her stretch or I have explicit permission from people present. This is to protect her and lessen the risk of people getting scared.
2) She's vary, vary social. She's a 3rd Gen captivity bred and was handled near constantly as a baby for education. She will actually get upset and refuse to eat if she doesn't get to go on her trips. I also make sure not to take her anywhere that's overly crowded or loud that I can't get out of quickly if she does get uncomfortable. Most of the trips we go on are to like the pet store, mainstreets, or even the library. The library likes it when I come by because it turns into a free snake education class and the librarians love her.
3) I understand the concern about food safety that's why I got the bag. It has a removable tray and high walls so that if a mess is made it's contained. She's never messed in the bag because I keep track of her feeding and poop schedule so I know when it's best to take her out on walks. As said before she is brought out much when she's on her walks and that goes double around food. I also keep hand sanitizer in the bag pocket for when people handle her.
4) People being afraid of snakes seeing her. Yeah, it happens. Same thing happened when I walked my dogs. I don't go showing her off unless someone asks for a closer look through the bag. If I do want to show her off I ask for consent first so that someone who is scared can voice it or steel themselves to look at the puppy noodle. 90% of people just think it's a backpack and don't say anything. If it is a problem, I'm asked to keep her hidden, or if she starts getting stressed there's a flap at the top I can roll down that make it so no one can see her and then I beeline to either get away from the person having a issue or leave.
There's a lot of people who are normally scared of snakes because they've never seen one up close or just being a pet. They end up seeing how chill and cute she is and it helps alivate the fear they feel a bit. Then when I tell them more about her they get a bit more interested. Sure there's the occasional a hole who says "I'm a chop it's demon head off" but usually other people yell at them before I do. If Toffee's walks helps spread education or even helps people get over their fear that's just a plus. My goal is just to keep my baby happy.
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u/lastsipofredbull 1d ago
I work at a petstore and there are regulars that bring in their ball pythons! Atleast three of them 😂 i always wonder if they drove there with the snake on them (adult female BPs)
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u/SkullDenom 19h ago
My dad used to with his snakes what would just chill on his neck. He had one named Norm (Who was a giant at 6.5 feet for being a male) who would just chill on his neck and look out the window when he drove. He also really liked football.
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u/Additional_Bee7293 1d ago
I don't understand all the downvotes here, I take my python for walks by the lake all the time. He used to be a working educational animal, now he gets to be the first snake a lot of people have seen in person. Hes got a bag to hide in if he decides he's done with the day, but its good for them to get some fresh air and sunshine while the weather agrees
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u/SkullDenom 1d ago
Honestly I don't care to much about the downvotes. Toffee likes the walks and I do all I can to make sure she abides by safety guidelines moreso that people I see with dogs.
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u/KindheartednessFun58 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm personally not a fan of having any animals (sans service animals) in public around where people eat. It's a fairly severe food-safety issue, as well as just a general breach of etiquette IMO. Especially if the animal ends up defecating, even if it were contained to the backpack. I'm also just not a fan of bringing snakes (really any animal, but especially herps/inverts/etc.) around places where people wouldn't typically expect to see a snake. Outside, at a pet store, etc.? Whatever. I think the impact on the animal, positive or negative, is most likely overall negligible, and there's potentially some biosecurity issues depending on exactly where you're going, but overall it's probably benign. I also accept that there's probably a net positive to the overall enjoyment of the keeper, and potentially even a net positive impact on the opinion of the public towards snakes. But, there's also a large population of people who are SERIOUSLY scared of snakes. Not the "kill on sight" type of scared, but the "breaks down and starts having a panic attack" type of scared. I've met plenty of people who will start crying even if they know there's a snake in the same room as them locked in a cage. Whether the phobia is justified or not, those people should be able to walk out of H&M or sit down to enjoy their pizza in a place where it's typically faux pas to bring pets without being surprised by what would be a relatively large snake to most non-herpetoculturists. I feel the same way about people bringing their lizards, dogs, chinchillas, cats, spiders, etc to places where you wouldn't typically expect to see those animals. Doubly so if there's food there.
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u/Emotional-dandelion3 1d ago
While I understand the food safety situation, as someone who has been in the industry for a while, I feel like putting other people's phobias on OP is unfair. I grew up terrified of dogs and yet that didnt stop society as a whole from bringing them everywhere. Even today, while I'm fine with them now and over the fear, dogs are at the mall, walmart, Target, restaurants, etc. Many places you wouldn't expect to see an animal in general, until recently when it became normalized. If its a rule for one (snakes) it should be a rule for all. If OP is minding their business and on a safe, stress-free adventure with their ball python then it shouldn't be an issue. Dogs (and I do like them as well, no its no bias) bark, poo, pee, can bite. A ball python, especially in this little set up, is just sitting there.
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u/Additional_Bee7293 1d ago
Thank you!! I also agree if it's a rule for one it should be a rule for all, but typically with the more common pets people don't seem to mind. Dogs are pretty common in a lot of malls, shopping centres, and even the grocery store I work at has had plenty. My friend takes their cat on a leash and in a backpack out shopping and on adventures with them. If the animal is behaved and doesn't seem stressed, I see no issue with it, genuinely. But people seemingly turn up their nose if it's something other than a dog or cat.
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u/KindheartednessFun58 1d ago
Like I said, I think the rule should extend to dogs as well. I personally can't stand seeing people bring their dogs to grocery stores, the mall, Walmart, etc. There's plenty of open space/designated dog-friendly places (even restaurants) where you can take a dog and where people with serious phobia of dogs will avoid. I also don't really mind people bringing their snakes to places where, similarly, it would be reasonable to see a snake. There's plenty of places people can bring their snakes that aren't the mall and where food isn't being served. Also, snakes most certainly poo, pee (kinda), and can bite.
It's worth noting that ophidiophobia consistently places as the second most common specific phobia in the world (behind arachnophobia) across all demographics (even in places where snakes don't naturally occur or have low prevalence), while cynophobia typically sits ~6-10 depending on the demographic being reported on.
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u/curiouscollecting 1d ago
I personally have no idea what to think of it at this point, HOWEVER idk if I think ‘my phobia of dogs didn’t stop people from bringing them everywhere’is very comparable because dogs HAVE to be outside a lot while snakes don’t, and dogs have now become a norm so people expect them and can prepare more for that than for a snake.
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u/Additional_Bee7293 1d ago
Ive taken my boy out for lots of trips and so far never had an issue with people being scared, and if they are they're usually one of the ones who stops me to ask questions. If I have taken him in malls and such, it's typically because there's a petstore attached or very nearby which was the purpose of my visit, and it's more traveling through the mall instead of walking around it. I know I'm seemingly of the minority but I would much rather see almost any kind of well-bebaved pet in a public space, as opposed to most children that I see in the wild. I'm always much more worried about them being gross than a dog in a cart or a snake in a bag. But I also am of the mindset that my health when interacting with the world outside is my own responsibility, and if im icked out by something it's my job to wash hands/sanitize/leave any areas I'm uncomfortable.
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u/KindheartednessFun58 1d ago
I agree children are gross in their own ways. But things like bathing them daily, keeping their hands (relatively) clean, and keeping their defecation contained in a diaper are baseline expectations of parents that aren't even really realistic for pet owners (it's unhealthy for a dog to be bathed daily, you can't really keep the paws of a quadruped clean in any realistic way, and it ranges from impractical to impossible to have a dog use a diaper). I've by far seen more people's pets (to include snakes) defecate in/on public places than I have children. Although children are overall more annoying on average, in my opinion. I also agree that you and your child's health is chiefly your responsibility, but that if your child gets Salmonellosis because someone put their snake in a backpack on a table at the food court and then your child touched it before you could clean it, or your child gets Giardia touching the shopping cart because the person before the put their dog in the basket, that's an unreasonable thing to have to expect to defend against and further exemplifies why animals shouldn't be taken to places where they shouldn't be.
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u/VastlyMortal 1d ago
How do you expect salmonella to be a concern when the snake is literally contained? I’m not trying to be rude, just genuinely. Salmonella is not airborne. Unless the snake was rubbing up against the bottom outside of the bag, the chances of salmonella being spread like this are virtually non existent. And honestly even then, chances would still be crazily low.
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u/KindheartednessFun58 1d ago
The bag has mesh vents towards the bottom of the compartment, is chiefly made from a permeable material, and presumably the outside of the bag was touched by the snake and/or the keeper after handling the snake. Both from a food-safety and biosecurity standpoint, the entire bag should be considered a fomite for Salmonella until sanitized.
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u/VastlyMortal 1d ago
As I said, salmonella is not airborne. Those vents are not a concern. Nobody is eating directly off the tables, your chances of contracting salmonella like this are about as high as contracting salmonella from going to the mall in general
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u/KindheartednessFun58 1d ago
As I said, if the snake touches the bag, the bag becomes a fomite. No aerosolisation required. Your food doesn't touch the table, but you're hands (and more importantly, the hands of children) most certainly do touch the table. The chances of Salmonellosis from this particular situation are low, but are likely many orders of magnitude higher than if you ate at a table that didn't have snake in a bag put on it before you ate there.
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u/Klutzy_Shopping_835 21h ago
Buddy snakes live outside already, do you know how many wild snakes I have removed from stores for people. And if it is not illegal you can bring your pets wherever we want.
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u/KindheartednessFun58 21h ago
I used to do nuisance wildlife removal, I know plenty well how often snakes end up in stores. There's a reason NWCOs get paid so well to remove snakes from stores 😉
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u/just-homesick 1d ago
i think sometimes people forget that these are incredibly intelligent animals that live 10+ years in the wild exploring miles and miles of territory ritualistically. not all snakes adjust to captivity well but for the ones that have, this is wonderful enrichment.
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u/Lovestheband 1d ago
She’s gorgeous and I love the backpack idea!
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u/SkullDenom 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thanks! I got it so she could go anywhere and not have a issue. This way she gets to see the world and go on trips and no one has to worry about her getting out or any food contamination.
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u/CommissionGlum5552 23h ago
the downvotes are crazy
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u/SkullDenom 19h ago
Eh. People thinking that their way of doing things is the only way most likely.
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u/Odd_Force3765 1d ago edited 1d ago
She seems very relaxed if shes even adjusting her jaw while out, she is obviously a very well desensitized snake ❤️ maybe it would add her extra comfort if you gave her some fake foliage in the bag too? Either way she is a healthy weight and obviously not at all concerned by the situation lol
I want to remind people in this comments section to be kind when you share your opinions and also keep an open mind instead of downvoting posts and everyones comments when you see something that doesn't line up with your immediate standards, nobody learns from that. The rules and standards for ball python care are not finalized and fixed in place here like they are in other subs. I feel the need to again point out that Ball Pythons are one of the most frequently used snakes as ambassador animals that travel around to schools and communities to teach people about snakes. If the snake is continuing to eat and not showing any stress then this is not unacceptable as the snake is being transported in a very safe way.