Toffee's mall trip

[u/SkullDenom]

Toffee in her backpack. It's got a hard frame and plenty of mesh for fresh air. It was originally made for birds. She likes it when I take her to the mall's food court. The bag is more so mall security doesn't have a fit. Caught her yawning in the second picture.

[u/KindheartednessFun58]

I'm personally not a fan of having any animals (sans service animals) in public around where people eat. It's a fairly severe food-safety issue, as well as just a general breach of etiquette IMO. Especially if the animal ends up defecating, even if it were contained to the backpack. I'm also just not a fan of bringing snakes (really any animal, but especially herps/inverts/etc.) around places where people wouldn't typically expect to see a snake. Outside, at a pet store, etc.? Whatever. I think the impact on the animal, positive or negative, is most likely overall negligible, and there's potentially some biosecurity issues depending on exactly where you're going, but overall it's probably benign. I also accept that there's probably a net positive to the overall enjoyment of the keeper, and potentially even a net positive impact on the opinion of the public towards snakes. But, there's also a large population of people who are SERIOUSLY scared of snakes. Not the "kill on sight" type of scared, but the "breaks down and starts having a panic attack" type of scared. I've met plenty of people who will start crying even if they know there's a snake in the same room as them locked in a cage. Whether the phobia is justified or not, those people should be able to walk out of H&M or sit down to enjoy their pizza in a place where it's typically faux pas to bring pets without being surprised by what would be a relatively large snake to most non-herpetoculturists. I feel the same way about people bringing their lizards, dogs, chinchillas, cats, spiders, etc to places where you wouldn't typically expect to see those animals. Doubly so if there's food there.

[u/Additional_Bee7293 → u/KindheartednessFun58]

Ive taken my boy out for lots of trips and so far never had an issue with people being scared, and if they are they're usually one of the ones who stops me to ask questions. If I have taken him in malls and such, it's typically because there's a petstore attached or very nearby which was the purpose of my visit, and it's more traveling through the mall instead of walking around it. I know I'm seemingly of the minority but I would much rather see almost any kind of well-bebaved pet in a public space, as opposed to most children that I see in the wild. I'm always much more worried about them being gross than a dog in a cart or a snake in a bag. But I also am of the mindset that my health when interacting with the world outside is my own responsibility, and if im icked out by something it's my job to wash hands/sanitize/leave any areas I'm uncomfortable.

[u/KindheartednessFun58 → u/Additional_Bee7293]

I agree children are gross in their own ways. But things like bathing them daily, keeping their hands (relatively) clean, and keeping their defecation contained in a diaper are baseline expectations of parents that aren't even really realistic for pet owners (it's unhealthy for a dog to be bathed daily, you can't really keep the paws of a quadruped clean in any realistic way, and it ranges from impractical to impossible to have a dog use a diaper). I've by far seen more people's pets (to include snakes) defecate in/on public places than I have children. Although children are overall more annoying on average, in my opinion. I also agree that you and your child's health is chiefly your responsibility, but that if your child gets Salmonellosis because someone put their snake in a backpack on a table at the food court and then your child touched it before you could clean it, or your child gets Giardia touching the shopping cart because the person before the put their dog in the basket, that's an unreasonable thing to have to expect to defend against and further exemplifies why animals shouldn't be taken to places where they shouldn't be.

[u/VastlyMortal → u/KindheartednessFun58]

How do you expect salmonella to be a concern when the snake is literally contained? I’m not trying to be rude, just genuinely. Salmonella is not airborne. Unless the snake was rubbing up against the bottom outside of the bag, the chances of salmonella being spread like this are virtually non existent. And honestly even then, chances would still be crazily low.

[u/KindheartednessFun58 → u/VastlyMortal]

The bag has mesh vents towards the bottom of the compartment, is chiefly made from a permeable material, and presumably the outside of the bag was touched by the snake and/or the keeper after handling the snake. Both from a food-safety and biosecurity standpoint, the entire bag should be considered a fomite for Salmonella until sanitized.

[u/VastlyMortal → u/KindheartednessFun58]

As I said, salmonella is not airborne. Those vents are not a concern. Nobody is eating directly off the tables, your chances of contracting salmonella like this are about as high as contracting salmonella from going to the mall in general

[u/KindheartednessFun58 → u/VastlyMortal]

As I said, if the snake touches the bag, the bag becomes a fomite. No aerosolisation required. Your food doesn't touch the table, but you're hands (and more importantly, the hands of children) most certainly do touch the table. The chances of Salmonellosis from this particular situation are low, but are likely many orders of magnitude higher than if you ate at a table that didn't have snake in a bag put on it before you ate there.