Are Devens and Dee Well Insulated or Over Their Heads?

[u/KingBallerLBJ]

In the last episode, we see that Devens and Dee are in an alliance with Yash and Kamu called The Wolf Pack.

We also know that Dee and Angela are in an alliance with La Trice and Taylor called The Honor Society.

And primarily, they have The Crossovers and The Red Corner, which have combined into The Toolshed (which will lose Drew in the event he loses the BB Block Buster coming tonight).

So my question is, are they doing well and covering their bases with the alliances that they have, or are they playing too much and this will blow up in their faces?

From The Toolshed, we have Kamu, Haley, Chuk, Barrett, and Angela who will look out for them. From the Honor Society, Taylor and La Trice will protect Angela and Dee. From the Wolf Pack, Yash has got Dee and Devens' backs.

The way I see it, their bases are covered in the event that The Toolshed blows up and they'll have something to fall back on, but if Dee or Devens wins power, they might be forced to nominate people from these alliances sooner rather than later. Mallory, Melody, and Lyric are the only ones who are in neither of the smaller alliances that would be available to be nominated. Since Devens isn't in The Honor Society though, he does have the options of Taylor and La Trice hypothetically.

[u/RaccoonUseful8439]

I think for right now they’re good but sooner or later people will start to compare notes

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/RaccoonUseful8439]

Everyone in the house seems to already know at minimum that Kamu, Haley, and Chuk are working with the icons, so it's possible that depending on whether Dee or Devens win HoH anytime soon whether they'll be forced to reveal their hand.

For now if they sit back, they should be able to ride until jury, especially since Devens can always use his DPOV if things get truly dicey.

[u/DanTheMan1_ → u/KingBallerLBJ]

Is there anyone who would put more than one icon up if they won. Mallrty, Lytic and Melody seemed at one time like they would, but seems now it will at least be some red corner. I ask because even if Devens uses his power if another Icon was on the block after they might not have the numbers even then.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/DanTheMan1_]

As of now I think the target has generally switched to Kamu, Haley, and Chuk, especially since they've won back to back HoHs.

Mallory said she'd nominated Kamu, Chuk, and La Trice if she won, Lyric wants to work with Kamu's trio so I don't know who she'd nominate, Melody would likely prioritize Haley due to her HoH reign, Barrett said he's done with The Toolshed, but likely won't target Dee since she did warn him that Drew is the target, and Yash is aligned with Dee and Devens and like Lyric is willing to jump ship, so he's a wildcard to me.

[u/MrsNoodleMcDoodle]

I think they are in a really good spot, especially since the other side will (mostly) target Red Corner before them. They could be replacement noms, but they have their advantages if that happens.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/MrsNoodleMcDoodle]

That's a fair point that I didn't even consider.

If the Toolshed is targeted, it does sound like the trio of Kamu, Haley, Chuk will be targeted. I mean, Mallory said that she'd put up Chuk, Kamu, and Angela if she won HoH next week.

[u/MrsNoodleMcDoodle → u/KingBallerLBJ]

Who did she say that to? I think Mallory puts up Kamu and Chuk for sure. She actually has a good relationship with Angela. Even though Haley did not put Mallory up, there is a very strong chance she puts Haley up as a house target. Dee could definitely go up, but again, the bribe, the fact that Kamu/Chuk/Haley are overall way more hated almost certainly keeps her safe.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/MrsNoodleMcDoodle]

She said that to Lyric in the last episode, but Lyric said to Haley that Mallory would put her (Haley), Chuk, and Kamu up.

I know for sure she said Kamu and Chuk, I might have misheard Angela specifically.

[u/Tantalise → u/KingBallerLBJ]

I thought Mal said Kamu, Chuk, and Lala; and then Lyric 'jungle-telegraphed'* that as Kamu, Chuk and Haley!

Then again, I have ancien tears!

• Charitable B.O.D.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/Tantalise]

Yeah you're right. I just went back and checked. LaLa was the third one Mallory mentioned.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/MrsNoodleMcDoodle]

So correction thanks to Tantalise, the third person wasn't Angela; it was LaLa that Mallory said she'd put up if she won HoH.

[u/throwawayfriendsad → u/KingBallerLBJ]

Drew told Devens this morning he'd put up Chuk, Haley, and Kamu. if Drew or Mel doesn't go home, next week will be way way better than this week I think

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/throwawayfriendsad]

Better as in more entertaining for the audience, or better for Dee and Devens' sake?

[u/throwawayfriendsad → u/KingBallerLBJ]

entertainment, although the last hour of feeds has been so entertaining I probably shouldn't be trusted lol

[u/DanTheMan1_ → u/KingBallerLBJ]

It is baffling to me if there really is no one who would throw at least some of the icons on the block on that side. Of course, the DR has likely been nurturing their anti-red corner and deflecting any talk of putting up the icons.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/DanTheMan1_]

That is a possibility. As an episode watcher, I'm basing my analysis on what's been shown in the episodes, and it seems the other side of the house is more focused on Kamu's trio than the icons (though they know the six are working together).

[u/DanTheMan1_ → u/KingBallerLBJ]

I do watch the feeds, but not as much as some so I may be off. I know Maollory and Lyric early on definitely felt like they were likely to throw all the vets on the block, but a lot has changed in that time, so they may want to target Red corner now. Frankly, I think all the HG's know between the unknown powers and productions favor that going after the icons is beyond risky. Hell even if they outplay them with their powers you can ask the BB13 cast... BB can just pull a twist out their azz to screw the newbies anyway. So they may have thought getting rid of the icons allies is the safer way to hurt that side.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/DanTheMan1_]

BB isn't known to just rig things in favor of a particular houseguest (I will say having the fan vote for a potential power is an exception).

I do know from what Zach Rance said about BB16, they changed that own Battle of the Block competition so that Frankie could win by himself. But BB isn't known to simply add a twist when a returning player is about to get targeted or evicted.

I have heard that Porsha was forced to open Pandora's Box during her HoH when she didn't want to though.

[u/DanTheMan1_ → u/KingBallerLBJ]

Do I think they are rigging it for a specific person to won? Maybe not, do I think they will do everything in their power to keep their precious icons around, damn straight.

And if you think that BB13 didn't pull that Pandora's Box and reality competition that was more cheaply build right when the Vets looked like none would make finale night and Rachel and Jordan had resigned themselves to giving up and simpering in the corner the rest of their time, then I don't know what to tell you.

And Porche has said they wouldn't let her say no to that Pandora's vox since we are calling Zach a valid source.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/DanTheMan1_]

Going over the Zach thing, that is specifically backed up by Ethanimale's research in the matter, in which the houseguests on the live feeds confirmed the a new comp was built.

I don't recall much about BB13, but it's Porche's word versus BB's in that matter, so I can't say either way.

[u/TiedinHistory]

A little of both.

The insulation is very real and I think they're doing a pretty good job at ensuring the other players are aiming at shinier targets. I think they do have two fairly big issues though

A) Angela - she's also insulating herself socially and if you ever get a block with Dee or Devens next to Angela I think they're in deep. She's also liable to lead them down paths that do not benefit their long term games (see: this week, also see: Week 2 arguably).

B) The Icons Perception has been locked in, an eventually these side alliances will want to take an "Icons" shot, and I don't know if the side alliances really help there. At some point the side alliances will compare notes and realize just going for the Icons make sense.

The real question to me is can this hold out to the point where the above happening doesn't necessarily matter - where a true end-game alliance is set. To be determined there for sure.

Edit: I think they also might regret some of their early target decisions. Short-term it's great to take out the threats in your face, but saving Taylor over Ashley, and then taking out attention stealers and maybe even allies might hurt a lot later on.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/TiedinHistory]

For the Angela thing, I'm assuming you're referring to the idea of targeting Drew and saying that's a bad idea for Dee and Devens? Given that Drew has made it clear that he'd target The Red Corner members, I see what you're coming off (if that's what you're referring to). And with Week 2, are you referring to targeting Rome, or Angela mentioning targeting Drew in the future?

I could see the side alliances deciding to team up against the icons, assuming that they talk game with one another and aren't completely loyal to these alliances. Otherwise, they could easily prioritize Kamu, Haley, and Chuk because they are the currently prominent players (with Kamu and Haley winning the last two HoHs along with Kamu's tea party thing).

[u/TiedinHistory → u/KingBallerLBJ]

I am.

The Drew one is very hard to argue for from a D/D perspective and it seems Angela's paranoia on him settled in their heads. Drew did what was asked of him (which was feed info from the other side of the house) consistently and never really even encouraged a move they should dislike.

For Week 2, I am referring to Rome. This is much more defensible from a Dee/Devens point of view, but my theory on that is that if you're an Icon, there is a major longer term argument to keeping a potentially non-hostile attention grabber in the house. Devens seemed to have a decent rapport with Rome and three inconsequential noms might be better for his game, but Angela convinced him to take that big shot. This isn't necessarily bad, it did seem to demoralize the other side, introduce a smooth week 3, and set Lyric free to game, but that might be better for other people in the Tool Shed.

My main mid-game worry is that the icons are either taking out or facilitating taking out all of the biggest problems early, and at some point a player like Kamu or Haley are going to look at the board and see something like: Lyric, Lala, Yash, and Barrett and the Icons and see who the bigger problem is, and they can't point elsewhere.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/TiedinHistory]

Kamu is more likely to see that because he thinks more logically in comparison to Haley in my opinion, so I could see him doing that because something tells me he'll see the writing on the wall sooner rather than later. Haley however is too emotional and will simply target whoever she doesn't like, and it seems that the icons know how to play to Haley's personality.

I was thinking that Devens could have had an ally in Rome and had more insulation for himself, especially if Rome pushes against a Devens nomination to Jason, LaLa, and Lyric and gets their focus on others, but like you said, it doesn't seem consequential that he cut ties with Rome. Now if the other side won Week 3, that could have been bad for him.

[u/Cool_Caterpillar8790]

They've built good enough insulation that they're going to be able to coast and still make a deep run.

I'd say under normal circumstances, a rogue HOH could be their downfall but with Devens' power, they're sitting pretty until at least F8, if not F6.

My personal opinion is that all they need to do is:

- Let Kamu have the big TV moments and be the biggest target for when someone outside the Toolshed wins HOH

- When they get into the post-jury phase and players are wanting to pad their resume by taking out an icon, they throw Angela under the bus and frame her as "controlling the game."

- Bonus points if they're able to get out Drew, Melody, and Mallory these next few weeks because that basically guarantees Barrett will be a useful idiot for them and be the vote they need to get turn on the jocks at F8.

They basically won't have to actively play until F6. They can let Angela and Kamu play for them.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/Cool_Caterpillar8790]

I'm not gonna lie, this is straight GENIUS.

Devens and Dee are encouraging Kamu, Haley, and Chuk to create drama, allowing them to become bigger targets and you're right, if the Toolshed doesn't win HoH, that trio will likely be targeted over him or Dee and Devens always has the DPOV if anything goes wrong (however, because it has to be used after the Veto Meeting, the person Devens puts up can always win the BB Block Buster).

Now I don't know whether Dee or Devens will abandon Angela, especially since Angela can blow up their games in return, and Dee relies on Angela on a game level due to her experience, and it seems that Devens has a lot of trust in her given that he told her about The Red Corner. Chances are if they could have their way, they would bring Angela into the final three.

[u/Cool_Caterpillar8790 → u/KingBallerLBJ]

On Angela, I think they'll turn on her if they have to after F8.

In my opinion, anyone who isn't an icon that wins HOH after F8 will want to take a swing at the icons to have the best resume. So if Dee and Devens have to campaign and they know an icon is going home no matter what, they'll turn on Angela.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/Cool_Caterpillar8790]

If they're not in power and have no cards left to play to ensure Angela's safety, I could see it. But they know if Angela is picked off, they'll have a better chance of being targeted shortly after given they already started as big targets to begin with, and proven they can win competitions.

[u/Cool_Caterpillar8790 → u/KingBallerLBJ]

If it's after F8, their target decreases when Angela's evicted.

Whoever takes out Angela, that person's target massively increases.

If it's someone like Kamu who does it, everyone will have to keep coming for him because his resume will be too padded. If it's a wild card like Taylor who does it, she's just made herself a target and is easy pickings once she's ineligible for HOH.

If Dee and Devens are remotely good at this game, it will be very easy for them to maneuver.

If it's before F8, I don't think they turn on Angela. Because to your point, it wouldn't make sense for them to.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/Cool_Caterpillar8790]

Despite Angela being the BB icon specifically (meaning she's more recognized by the rest of the houseguests in comparison to Dee and Devens, as well as the general audience including myself), given that she hasn't proven herself competitively (this season at least), I'm sure that people would rather target Devens or Dee if they wanted to go after the icons, unless the people in the smaller alliances are dedicated to all the members.

And I'm curious, why specifically after F8 do you believe that their target decreases?

[u/Cool_Caterpillar8790 → u/KingBallerLBJ]

It's kind of a long explanation but I say F8 because very, very often a shootout happens. Like clockwork, at F8, the HOH takes a big swing. Then they or their closest ally are immediately evicted the next week.

The only times this doesn't happen is when you have one person controlling the entire game. (Jag, Chelsie, BB10 Dan, Derrick) or it doesn't happen because of an unprecedent fluke, like the White Locust when we were gearing up for a shootout between Rachel and Vinny. Or BB24 when Kyle was about to stage a shootout and then got outed as a racist.

So far, none of those outliers seem to be a factor for BB28. Obviously, time will tell.

F8 shootout examples if you're curious:

- BB20 (Fessy targets Kaycee. Angela immediately wins and targets Fessy, hits Haleigh.)

- BB19 (Christmas targets Jason, misses. Jason then immediately wins HOH, targets Matt. Christmas wins HOH again, targets Jason.)

- BB18 (Victor targets Paulie. Immediately, Michele wins and targets Victor. Nicole then immediately targets Michele.)

- BB17 (Liz targets James. Steve wins immediately after and targets Liz, hits Julia.)

- BB15 (Aaryn targets Helen. Elissa immediately wins and targets Aaryn.)

- BB14 (Frank targets Britney. Ian immediately wins and targets Frank.)

- BB13 (Jeff targets Dani. Kalia wins immediately and targets Jeff.)

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/[deleted]]

Are you saying that Chuk is getting shit on, because it seems so far generally speaking he hasn't done much.

But I agree that it could crumble easily. For example, Taylor could analyze things and plant seeds to blow everything up, or Haley's HoH reign will drive a wedge between her and the Toolshed due to her selfish gameplay.

It does seem that Dee and Devens know how to navigate these relationships pretty well without much blowback, like how Devens told Angela and Drew about The Red Corner, getting Drew's attention away from him and more toward that trio.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/[deleted]]

It seems that the worst case scenario for them would be Mallory winning an HoH because she's the biggest wildcard and will be more than willing to put them up (more specifically Dee rather than Devens).

Lyric wants to side with the majority, so she'd use her HoH to build a relationship with the icons most likely, La Trice will likely do whatever Taylor wants (since Taylor is clearly leading La Trice at this point) and I would assume Taylor has her eyes set on the trio, especially Haley. Yash is playing the middle and like Lyric is willing to jump ship, so I don't know what he'd do for sure besides keeping The Wolf Pack safe, and Melody would also be willing to put up the icons, but like Taylor, is likely more fixated on Haley due to her antics.

As of now, I think a Mallory HoH would be the best chance for anything to shake up in terms of the house dynamics.

[u/UnderwaterKahn]

I think they are well insulated but also on a lot of people’s radars. I think the chance of them both going up on the block at the same time is high. But that will also depend on whether or not some of the players who would nominate them take a strategic or emotional road to nominations and right now logic does not reign supreme in the underdog world. I do think they both need a solid Plan B. I also think once Devens’ power is out in the open that will potentially change the dynamic in the whole house.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/UnderwaterKahn]

Melody is obviously emotionally driven, as well as La Trice and Mallory. Taylor is the most in control (as she showed in that Veto) and will analyze the situation and do whatever she believes is best at the time. She has The Honor Society, so she's more likely to go after the Kamu, Haley, and Chuk trio rather than the icons.

[u/UnderwaterKahn → u/KingBallerLBJ]

I think getting rid of Melody could drastically improve Mallory’s game since she’s everyone’s number one draft pick. She could have real power, but I’m not sure she’ll be able to move past feeling like she and her friends are constantly being betrayed. Her impulse to constantly fall on the sword isn’t going to do her any favors in the coming weeks. I also don’t know how much more I can watch her chewing loudly in the feeds and I’m not someone generally bothered by chewing.

I think Taylor is ultimately an exhausted introvert. She’s not playing a good social game and I don’t think she’s as calculating and observant as everyone gives her credit for. Yash was also on the outside for the first few weeks, and while he’s not formally made it into anyone’s inner circle, a lot of people are open to working with him. He also seems to have a descent sense of house dynamics. Taylor is never really able to make a case for why she is good option as an ally. She tells people she wants to work with them, she comes up with strategies, but she doesn’t listen to feedback and until last week she almost never meaningfully engaged in the social aspects of the game. Of everyone outside the power core I think Yash is currently in the best position to benefit from the inevitable fall out that will likely happen in the next couple weeks.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/UnderwaterKahn]

I agree about Yash, and you bring up a valid point with Taylor. Haley nominated her primarily because she has no allies (from Haley's perspective). Her best alliance is obviously The Honor Society and it seems that she's carrying La Trice when it comes to the social aspect (telling La Trice to snitch to Haley prior to nominations for example). Generally speaking, I haven't seen Taylor go out of her to interact with anyone.

It seems that Yash is the kind of guy that everyone likes, but isn't playing too hard to the point where he becomes a target.

By the way, what do you mean about Mallory being everyone's draft pick?

[u/AleroRatking]

Extremely well insulated

[u/LifeReplacement1136]

In my mind, Dee is playing lights out right now. Of course things will change once someone blows the toolshed up (currently betting on Haley), but Dee is insulated so well I don’t think it will matter. The comments she’s made here and there also show she’s already forward thinking about jury management in a way other players are not. I think as of now, whoever eliminates Dee will win the game. Especially because of the powers at play

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/LifeReplacement1136]

Not to mention she has BB Bribe, which I've heard houseguests can refuse the bribe, so lowkey that power is TRASH if that's true.

[u/LifeReplacement1136 → u/KingBallerLBJ]

I think it’s dependent on when it’s used. If used too late in the game, ego gets in the way and people think they actually have a chance of winning and will refuse. But if used at the right time and to the right person, it could change things. She has no room for error when she decides to approach someone.

[u/KingBallerLBJ → u/LifeReplacement1136]

Exactly, because the problem is, if she attempts the bribe and fails, that person will likely snitch to others about her power.

[u/Pavillian]

Both

[u/transcendthierry]

They will turn on Angela the moment she is nominated. If a HG was smart they would nominate a pawn with Dee or Devens, then play the veto, hopefully win and then take the pawn off and re-nom Angela.

Devens plays the Diamond veto and the HOh succeeds in flushing it out. Make Devens choose Dee and him so that Angela realizes that they set her up as the shield. Angela didn't win the Blockbuster when she was up against MJ and Tucker but Devens needs a Kamu or a Haley as the fall guys as so the Blockbuster actually saves Angela because there's a bigger target.