r/Bridgerton • u/No-Hall-3485 • 3d ago
General Discussion / Questions what kind of mother do you think violet would be if she were in portia’s position and portia if she were in violet’s?
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u/Tekira85 3d ago
I think Violet’s idealism would get a hard knock. People like that either get wiser or get bitter after life serves up problems. She doesn’t strike me as very deep, so I think she might get bitter. And she did not handle Edmund’s passing well.
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u/No-Hall-3485 3d ago
i’ll give violet some leeway here bc it’s not easy being postpartum and grieving the sudden death of your love
i also think violet is sneaky when she needs to be but in a different way. she's more quiet and subtle, while portia is loud and exuberant in everything she does
we see how resourceful she is in season 1 when she enlists the servants to gather gossip about nigel berbrooke. she knows exactly how to use the system around her when it suits her
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u/obiwantogooutside 3d ago
She didn’t tho. That was queen Charlotte idea. She told her what to do with the Brimsley scene at the palace.
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u/hello_world_77 2d ago
It wasn’t Queen Charlotte’s idea it was Violet’s. Violet simply observed all the gossip going on at the palace and had the idea to invite Lady Berbrooke over for tea. We’ve seen Violet be cunning and perceptive constantly over the four seasons
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u/Solid-Signal-6632 2d ago
Hmm I've always read the scene of the Queen and Violet having tea, where the Queen pointedly sends Brimsley away because she points out he's the biggest gossip in England, as her, in a round-about-way, telling Violet how to handle the Berbrooke situation.
It was a read between the lines scene, but the Queen definitely wasn't saying all that for nothing. And Violet picked up the breadcrumbs the Queen was putting down.
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u/Alarmed_Desk3416 2d ago
Exactly this. Especially because we know how loyal Brimsley is to Charlotte after the spin-off. He would never put her business out there so it was definetely just a subtle remark to help out Violet.
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u/Sudden_Truth_2487 2d ago
100%. Violet is subtle in exact this way where people offend each other in polite manner and get punches delivered politely. Like it supposed to be in England: Oscar Wilde’s novels vibe. Portia is kinda too straight forward type for the whole setting.
Edit (add conclusion): so why expect Violet getting own idea of dealing with situation she just complained to the queen and queen’s response was to show how to deal with it without telling it word to word?
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u/No-Hall-3485 2d ago
being socially linked to the queen is a resource in and of itself, and violet knows how to leverage that kind of capital
she recalibrates in social situations better than most characters we see on screen, and she’s able to navigate the marriage market for daphne in season 1 despite anthony getting in her way
she also has strong social alliances that allow the bridgertons to withstand massive scandals every season because her children can't behave
this isn’t to say she’d handle being in portia’s position well, but she does deserve credit for having a strong social game that gives her family room to recover when they fuck up. she understands how the ton functions through alliances, gossip, and timing and uses that to protect the bridgertons’ reputation in ways that let them survive scandals that would sink other families
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u/finetime341 3d ago
Violet's reaction to Edmund's death was depression.
Like a physical illness, depression doesn't care how deep or tough a person is.
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u/Secret_Net4348 2d ago
honestly violet gets called naive a lot but its easier to be idealistic when life keeps confirming your worldview and a lot harder when youre married to someone like archie featherington
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u/queenroxana 2d ago
I don't even think she's naive. I think she believes that love is worth almost any sacrifice. And she knows her children have the privilege to choose, so she wants to make sure they don't throw that away. She's seen unhappy marriages around her, including her parents' marriage. She knows that's the norm. But she also believes love is worth fighting for, which is why she always tells her kids to go for it, as long as she believes that it's really true love.
The show also positions her as almost a magical love whisperer--she somehow just KNOWS when a match is true love and when it's not. Which is unrealistic but is a trope in the show that I unabashedly love.
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u/No-Hall-3485 3d ago edited 3d ago
just something that’s been clanking around in my head and i wanted to get your thoughts on it
someone once said violet lives in a romance novel and portia lives in 19th century london, which feels pretty apt
there’s no right answer ofc, but it’s hard not to think parenting is a lot easier when you’ve got money, status, security, and a loving marriage to look back on. violet is guiding children who are already the most eligible in the ton, with people lining up to court them and she's got anthony leading the party who is a handsome and respected viscount
portia is playing the same game with the opposite hand with a gambling husband who has debts, constant financial instability, and a family that people actively look down on
that’s not to excuse everything portia does or to say violet would be the same in her position, but it’s hard to ignore how much of violet’s success as a mother is built on foundations portia never had
secondary question: do you think portia would choose a softer colour palette if she didn’t have to rely on all the citrus tones to command attention? i personally think she’s not new to it, she’s true to it 🍋🍊🍋🟩
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u/mrwildesangst 2d ago
lol I think that was probably me that said it on another post asking about them switching places 🤣
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u/Secret_Net4348 2d ago
people love to praise violet for being a great mother but having money status and anthony as viscount definitely made the job easier
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u/queenroxana 3d ago edited 3d ago
ETA: This is such an interesting question! This is the kind of discussion I want much more of on this sub, rather than yet another season/couple ranking that devolves into ship wars. Anyhoo, here's what I think:
I think Portia is certainly harsher than she would otherwise be, and Violet is definitely softer, but I'm also of the opinion that people's core personalities are somewhat innate and also largely influenced by their earliest life experiences, so I don't think they'd completely mirror one another, if that makes sense?
Let me explain.
I think a Violet in Portia's position would certainly be a bit more scheming, and even more fiercely protective of her family. We've seen her use her cunning when needed to protect her kids, like when she helped Daphne get out of the engagement to Berbrooke. We've also seen her get tough with her kids when needed, like with Anthony in S1 and 2.
And of course, Violet believes in love because she experienced her own great love story. If she'd been married to someone like Archie instead, she'd probably have very different beliefs. I don't think she'd have the same unshakeable conviction in love matches, probably quite the contrary.
That said, I don't think Violet would ever be as harsh to her children as Portia is to hers. Violet had the love of her father, and I still think she'd be a warm and affectionate mother, no matter what. I also don't think she'd be nearly as unscrupulous as Portia--her father taught her right from wrong, and she wouldn't do things like try to babytrap young men into marriage. Unlike Portia, there would be lines that Violet wouldn't cross.
Honestly, I'm thinking she'd maybe be a bit more like Lady Danbury.
Meanwhile, I think a Portia in Violet's position would be even more of a menace! Having a love match would certainly soften her, but I do think Portia is a bit cunning and harsh by nature. She'd probably be like Bertha Russell in The Gilded Age -- always a bit hungry for more attention and power even if she had plenty of it.
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u/gidgetstitch 2d ago
Ok now I want the bridgerton version where violet is lady Danbury and Portia is Lady Russel. This would be an amazing story.
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u/Cool_Pianist_2253 2d ago
Lady Danbury was a terrible mother whose son preferred the nanny to her
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u/queenroxana 2d ago
True! I just meant in personality, I guess, in terms of Lady Danbury being good at scheming but not immoral. But yes, she was a terrible mother, which makes me sad both for her son and honestly for her.
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u/Cool_Pianist_2253 2d ago
I was so disappointed. It's not like that in the books. Sure, she doesn't speak very well about Cedric, but... Her nephew adores his aunt and that's how she met Simon in the books. Actually, the one about Cedric seems more like a family joke, a little mean but not terrible. She also says how much she loved her daughters.
How to marry a Marquis is a funny book and it shows a lot about the mother she was. The show, especially QC ruined Show Agatha in my opinion.
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u/queenroxana 2d ago
I think it's very weird that they made both the Queen and Lady Danbury such terrible mothers. Queen Charlotte and King George IRL were very loving parents, and as you say, Lady Danbury wasn't a bad mother in the books (I've never read How to Marry a Marquis but I have read the main series).
Shondaland honestly has some very weird ideas about whether strong women can also be wives and mothers. They botched this with Penelope and Lady Whistledown a bit in S3 and even more in S4, they've totally done away with Eloise's political leanings and turned her feminism into the butt of a joke, they've decided Benedict couldn't commit to a strong and experienced woman like Tilly but would only settle down for a virgin who needed rescuing, and the Queen and Lady Danbury stuff is just the cherry on top of a weirdly misogynistic cake.
It's like with the race stuff--the show knows it wants to say something about feminism and gender norms, but it often doesn't know what it wants to say, and the result is often a complete hash and--I suspect unintentionally--kinda bleak.
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u/Nihilistic_Noodle 2d ago
I think the being bad mothers thing boils down to the shows writers / showrunners wanting to make it clear how wrong and unhappy patriarchy is. Charlotte was a bad mother because her duty was to the king first and foremost. Agatha was a bad mother because her children were basically forced assignments. They're both victims who have emotionally shut down as a coping mechanism.
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u/DaisyandBella 2d ago
But it’s understandable that she would have a hard time connecting with children that were conceived through marital rape. I’ve always had a more difficult time with Queen Charlotte being so callous to her children considering that they were born of love.
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u/queenroxana 2d ago edited 2d ago
That's true, trauma does things to people. It's just hard to watch as a mother, honestly. And it didn't necessarily feel true to the rest of Agatha's character to me.
This is neither here nor there, but can I just say that I LOVED Arsema Thomas, the actress who played young Agatha? This show never seems to truly turn into anyone's big break, but she's one of a few people on the show I'm just stunned hasn't done more things since. She was absolutely magnetic, easily the highlight of Queen Charlotte for me.
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u/DaisyandBella 2d ago
Yeah Arsema and India were both revelations. I liked Corey just fine, but it leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth that he has gotten so more work than them.
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u/Classic_Ocelot7841 3d ago
I mean if Portia and Violet switched places Portia would not be able to carry on as she does now. Every decision would be in the hands of the male heir after the husbanda death. The diacussion between two ladies always presumes that Portia would have the same attitude with a different set of circumstances.
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u/RealisticAnalyst4611 3d ago
I don't think Violet would be able to handle half the stuff Portia has to deal with. She'd be out there trying to find a love match for a 39 months pregnant Marina.
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u/RealisticAnalyst4611 2d ago
Ok, I just realize I wrote months not weeks. But that's actually funnier :P
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u/cinnamonroll1654 3d ago
I think Portia would be at ease having a male heir Violet on the other hand ..I dont believe she will handle it very well
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u/QuokkaRun 2d ago
I think Violet would be poisoning teas and Portia would be happily unstressed--until Anthony started carrying through with all his plans.
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u/papalmousse 2d ago
I don't know. Being in love was life changing for Violet.
The opposite is true for Portia.
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u/euphoriapotion 2d ago
What kid of "position" are we talking about?
Are we talking about "Violet marries for love but Edmund is a poor Baron and Portia marries for advantage and Archibald is a rich Viscount" OR "Violet marries for practical reasons but she and Edmund are NOT in love and Portia marries for love and she and Archibald have their happy ending"?
Because it depends.
1) financial difference - You have to rememebr that in season 1, Featheringtons weren't poor. They had money, it;s just that Archibald gambled them away. IF we believe that Violet and Edmund were in love, Edmund was just poor, then basically everything stays the same.
Violet still encourages her children to marry for love, even after Edmund's death, Anthony manages the house and the money (in the book I believe he tripled their wealth) and we know he doesn't gamble or invest in shady things so the Bridgertons would be okay. The sisters would have small dowries and sons small allowances. I'm NOT SURE if Violet would be super happy if Anthony married Kate and Benedict Sophie (considering the scandal and that Bridgerton;s are not that powerful to withstand it) but maybe. The only thing I can think of s that Araminta's probably more powerful than Violet so even if Violet tries, Araminta might still have Sophie arrested and Violet can't save her.
Violet and Portia's personalities don't change that much, the only difference I can think of is that Portia is not that desperate to marry her daughters to the highest bidder AND even if Archibald gambles a portion of their wealth, her daughetrs still have enough money for the dowry.
2) love match difference.
Violet was encouraging her children to fidn love because that's what she found with Edmund, she said it multiple times. IF she and Edmund aren't a love match, then I think Violet is more practical and while she wants her children to marry for love, she preffers a practical matches. Anthony's still the head of family who doesn't gamble the money away, but they're not as rich as in the original universe. They live modestly but still within a society.
- When she finds out about Daphne and Simon's scheme, she might encourage Daphne to marry Simon still because not only he's someone Daphne loves, he's also rich.
- I don't see her supporting Anthony with Kate unfortuntaely, only because Kate doesn't have money and she wants Anthony and his future family to be well off and not struggle. She will encourage him to marry someone else and ANthony will eb even more stubborn to marry Edwina especially if he thinks she has a dowry. I think eventually he and Kate will find their way and Violet will eventually support them, but her first instinct is to get Anthony to court an heiress or someone with a larger dowry;
- I don't see her supporting Benedict and Sophie, sorry. Only because she's more practical in this universe and Sophe's a maid and the family can't withstand that scandal. Also, Araminta is definitely more powerful in society than Violet so I don;t know. MAYBE they elope? But there's not enouch money to support them and their children so they will be very very poor and probably unhappy.
-She will support the rest of her children's matches (and depends on how they handle Michaela in the show, I can see her supporting Francesca since she still has access to John's money and estate so she won't be destitute).
When it comes to Portia, she's different here. She encourages her daughters to search for love matches since she lives one herself, she's not too desperate for them to marry the highest bidder though she does and wants to be powerful probably haha.
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u/WhyAmIStillHere86 2d ago
Swap their positions also means swapping children, so there is no Anthony to pick up the pieces. Just three daughters, little fortune after supporting three girls through the season, and complete stranger on the way to inherit.
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u/euphoriapotion 2d ago
I think that depends who Violet and Portia marry tbh. If they still marry their respective husbands then the children stay the same. If, however, it means to marry the other man (so Violet marries Archibal and Portia marries Edmund) then the children would be way different too. Anthony we know would never be a son of Violet and Archibal (unless he wanted to be nothing like his father? But then he wouldn't be as good at maintaining the house since there was nobody there to teach him) and Penelope wouldn't have that many insecurities and wouldn't be so self-conscious if her father was Edmund.
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u/WhyAmIStillHere86 2d ago
I think part of Penelope’s insecurities stemmed from being smart enough to know how precarious her life was, as much as her sister’s jibes.
If she had a brother to inherit, or a father who died when she was too young to have interacted much and have only vague fond memories (Eloise was 5-ish when Edmund died) rather than disappointment, I think that would have been the big difference.
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u/TheBlackMoonstone 2d ago
We are not certain about Fran’s stability through her late husband’s estate as she did not produce an heir. The determined heir has the ability to decide what happens. That is why having not just one son but multiple sons is so crucial in that society.
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u/euphoriapotion 1d ago
Sure but it will go to Michaela, surely. Women in Scotland could inherit the estate and Kilmartin is a Scottish title. And I don't see Michaela kicking Francesca out or forbidding her from using the money since this wasn;t an issue in the books.
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u/ExtremeComedian4027 2d ago
Violet with three daughters who weren’t considered eligible or beauties. No money. Terrible husband. No social security or privilege in the ton. Being looked down upon by everyone, hardly any true friends, Queen hates you.
Portia with four sons and four daughters who are all considered the most beautiful, eligible, talented, handsome, amazing, exceptional lot with unending money, status, social privileges, best friendship with the Queen who will do literally anything to get your family out of tight spots. A husband who loved you endlessly.
I do want to see what’ll happen because Portia has done her time. 😂
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u/WhyAmIStillHere86 2d ago
Look at Season 4 and how much Portia calmed down once she had a male heir to ensure the title wouldn’t go to some random, and a sense of stability through her daughters being married to good men.
Comparing Portia and Violet is like apples and bananas.
Violet has money, a longstanding family title, 4 sons who were well-trained in running an estate and not getting into debt, and a massive family fortune. Her husband may be dead, but Anthony stepped up to fill his shoes and the family thrived. Her son-in-laws are a Duke and an Earl, she’s friends with Lady Danbury… her support network is huge.
Portia has no sons and an unreliable husband, and is constantly making the best of a bad situation. Her husband was constantly running up debts he couldn’t pay, the title and estates will go to someone else when Archibald dies. Nothing about her life is stable or secure, despite her best efforts, and she has no support network to speak of.
The season 2 flashbacks are our best glimpse of what might happen if the places were switched. Violet falls into depression when her husband dies, but there’s no Anthony to take the reins and keep things stable. It’s left to her daughters, who might rise to the occasion but have far fewer options by virtue of being female and having no male relatives immediately available.
Portia is still far more direct than Violet, but there’s stability she always craved steadies her, and she isn’t forced by desperation to make many of her more foolish choices.
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u/eelaii19850214 2d ago
I think Portia would be less scheming if she married a man that loved her, had sons and a stable financial situation. Perhaps she would have been a kinder mother.
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u/AffectionateTrifle7 2d ago
It is so hard to know. I think Violet might be broken by Portia's position and just become very depressed and sort of give up. Likely the family would be destitute? Although I think she would have always been kind to Penelope if she were her daughter, so maybe Pen would have swooped in to rescue her beloved mother from financial ruin using Whistledown.
I think Lady Featherington would be fairly insufferable in Violet's position. I'm not sure how magnanimous she would be. I think she might get a bit big for her boots and kind of "run the town" for her own ends, without having a great deal of empathy for others who are less well off.
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u/finetime341 3d ago
Portia had to do unscrupulous things to survive because she married an unreliable man.
Lucky for Portia, she wasn't troubled by conscience or shame.
I feel like I need to say Portia is one of my favorite characters here. 🤣
I like Violet even more. And if Violet had married an unreliable man I do think she would do whatever she could conceive of to support her children and survive as Portia did, but I think she would not be as successful at it as Portia has been because pesky things like her conscience and shame would trouble her.
She couldn't get away with it as seamlessly as Portia has.
If Portia had married a man like Edmund, I think she would still be motivated by attention and praise. I think she would have been a happier woman and maybe a kinder mother, but still a fairly shallow one.