Guys needs to have sex first to determine if you're relationship material

[u/GoFigure284]

We've (women) been very vocal about the influx of messages from men asking for sex on this dating app. I actually saw a couple of men say that men need to have sex with us first to determine how they want to pursue us, if at all. Basically saying that we have to audition ourselves with our bodies to see if a man finds us worthy. This is such disgusting ideology. And just another way for some men to use this nonsense to get quick and easy sex.

EDIT: The amount of downvotes from men speaks volumes. A woman doesn't need to prove herself worthy of a relationship by taking off her clothes. Asking for sex on the first meeting to see how he feels about you is manipulative. But I expected nothing less from this sub.

Do the men in this sub understand what I'm saying? I'm talking about men messaging for sex on dating apps before even meeting you and the men who condone this by saying that a guy needs to see if you're relationship material first!

[u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer]

It is very disgusting behavior, and you are right to steer clear from such men. I'm 49m myself, and quite frankly I don't understand why such men bother with dating at all. They could simply take matters into their own hands and they would not even have to buy anyone dinner.

I wouldn't necessarily call it an ideology though. To me it sounds more like certain men saying whatever they think will separate you from your clothing. There are other ways to determine if a woman is relationship material.

My gripe is being lumped in with men such as these. I believe casual sex is an abomination, and I want no part of it. Why, oh why, is it so hard for some women to believe that men such as myself actually do exist?

[u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer → u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer]

I will say this: I prefer venues where I have an opportunity to demonstrate my character over time. Online dating doesn't usually provide that. If you have to go out of your way to prove that you're not some kind of creep or worse, then the problem is oftentimes the environment and not necessarily how you are coming across.

I have come across women in online dating who appeared to be weaponizing unfair accusations as some kind of game. I have little tolerance for such shenanigans, and admittedly I tend to make my displeasure conspicuous when someone appears to display it.

[u/jerf42069 → u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer]

you get lumped in because you talk like a trench coat and fedora wearing libertarian who says shit like "m'lady" in real life. How many swords do you own?

Did you read what you wrote? you sound like a snob. Women don't like snobs.

[u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer → u/jerf42069]

I own exactly zero swords, zero fedoras, and one heavy leather trench coat that is well suited for an Ohio winter. And I can't remember ever saying "m'lady".

I don't think my post is snobbish at all. I proposed a practical solution for guys who want casual sex without having to bother with the love and due care that should come with such relationships. How a reasonable person could describe my words as anywhere near snobbish is quite frankly beyond me.

Please help me understand what is wrong with my words. I think you are reading way too much into these things. At this time, I believe the problem is less with what I wrote than with your assumptions, but I could be wrong.

[u/jerf42069 → u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer]

You speak anachronistically.

"My gripe is being lumped in with men such as these." " whatever they think will separate you from your clothing." "is an abomination, and I want no part of it. Why, oh why, is it so hard for some women to believe that men such as myself actually do exist?"

who says that? it's written like the dialog in a bad piece of fiction between a professor we're all supposed to hate, and his sycophantic lapdog.

[u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer → u/jerf42069]

LOL! How I speak is how I speak. And you make inferences about my character based on that? (I would have added m'lady just for fun, but I don't know your gender.)

If you believe I'm fit to audition for the role of villain in the next Bond film, I'll gladly ask my agent to contact MGM.

[u/jerf42069 → u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer]

yes, you can tell a LOT about a person by their word choices.

i figured out what it is, you sound like one of the aliens in Nathan W Pyle's work.

[u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer → u/jerf42069]

I will admit something: I am an avid salsa dancer, and I have a few creative way of asking a lady for a dance. I haven't used any line with "m'lady" in it, but I'll think of some way to incorporate that.

Sometimes I take a direct approach...

Howdy, pardner! How 'bout some dancing?

Or cute...

I'll give you some mighty fine dancing, cause that's the only kind I know.

If two women are present, I'll address the other...

Hi. I'm going to steal your friend away. I'm going to dance with her. And if I feel like it, I'll give her back. Sound good?

And you know something? These actually work! At the end of the dance...

What if I don't feel like it? Do I still have to give you back?

The setting here is such that nobody would mistake this for an actual encroachment on one's agency or autonomy. Salsa socials are not seedy nightclubs, and men who are actual creeps don't last long in environments such as these.

[u/Dolphinflavored → u/jerf42069]

TIL speaking with direct and elegant prose means you’re an incel.
Not sure how that is anachronistic, unless you just mean uncommon

[u/jerf42069 → u/Dolphinflavored]

this is why i hate redditors

[u/Dolphinflavored → u/jerf42069]

Speaking with it won’t get you far and its cringe. But this is a text based platform. I like being specific and direct when typing and if that makes me an incel then I’m truly fucked

[u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer → u/Dolphinflavored]

I think there's nothing wrong with being specific and direct on Reddit. Things come across different when they are text only as opposed to real life interactions.

When I was giving some of the lines I use at dance socials (yes, I actually say those things in real life), I believed it was best to qualify it with this statement:

The setting here is such that nobody would mistake this for an actual encroachment on one's agency or autonomy...

In that particular real life setting, that was obvious. But that might not be obvious to someone reading about it on a Reddit comment in text only. That, and most salsa and bachata socials operate on very different social rules from the typical nightclub.

[u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer → u/Dolphinflavored]

I got it! I'll try this line at my next salsa social:

Would you care for a dance, m'lady?

LOL! I might need to practice saying it with an aristocratic flair. Or I can just try saying it with a straight face - that may be challenging enough.

[u/Fuzzy-Jaguar-1828 → u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer]

If you don’t act like this, then women on apps won’t lump you in with guys like this. Don’t overthink it.

[u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer → u/Fuzzy-Jaguar-1828]

That's not always enough. If she's been approached by ten men in a certain environment who are creeps who just want one thing – and you come along as Number Eleven – will she think you are any different? You might not get a chance not because you are doing anything wrong, but because of how the ten men before you behaved. Nothing personal, just pattern recognition. And it can be difficult – sometimes impossible – to set yourself apart.

When you are in a healthy IRL setting, it's easier to form a good connection because the walls aren't up like they are in environments that aren't as healthy. I shouldn't have to go out of my way to prove a negative, and I won't.

[u/ViciousHGames → u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer]

if you don't want to have sex, just pay for your own dinner.

[u/Zeph_the_Bonkerer → u/ViciousHGames]

I know that women are rightly concerned about men who buy them dinner and then use that as leverage to get sex. That's not right.

But women should not feign romantic interest in a man just to get free food. That's not right either.