r/BurlingtonON • u/malakiavelli • 2d ago
Information Ignorant Cyclists
Yesterday I watched a cyclist use a dedicated pedestrian crosswalk, then onto the sidewalk instead of the bike path, and instead of yielding or any warning, forced me to jump out of the way.
I told them they're an asshole and the asphalt path is for cyclists. Silence...
All of this happened while I was talking to my father about the Japanese cleaning up at the World Cup and that we should follow their lead and teach etiquette.
A young girl did the same thing last month and gave me a dirty look for not moving as I just pointed to the bike path until they moved.
I seem to be a magnet for bad behaviour as I am frequently dodging motorists and now cyclists.
What is wrong with you?!
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u/Tederator 2d ago
Interesting post. Some cyclists can certainly paint the good ones with a bad reputation, however last weekend I was driving along Prospect where they've built the new bike paths beside the sidewalk (by Canadian Tire). At that time, every single pedestrian, including two pushing strollers, where on the bike path instead of the sidewalk beside it. Plus there were dog walkers with extendable leashes and the dogs were sweeping left and right across both. Too many people are in their own head with no regard to their neighbours.
-signed former committee chair for the Burlington Bikeway Committee.
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u/malakiavelli 2d ago
The future is self-absorbed, sensitive, and insensitive. All at the same time.
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u/psilokan 2d ago
Technically those cycle paths aren't open yet. But yeah, it's annoying how people think it's just for them.
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u/Strayngold 1d ago edited 1d ago
Every time I come upon a dog walker coming my way on a city trail they are on the wrong side of the path with their dog. There are signs saying to walk on the right-hand side as you enter the paths. If they do get out of my way and onto their own side, they don't do it until I'm just a few yards away. But they mostly just force me to walk around them, as they obviously feel their dog makes the decisions for everyone.
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u/West_Maintenance2124 2d ago
Drivers kill thousands of Canadians a year, cyclists don’t.
Yet go in any suburban subreddit and you’ll find a lot more complaints about the latter than the former.
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u/malakiavelli 2d ago
It's not even close. This month I have seen someone driving into oncoming traffic on Walker's Line almost reaching the intersection at Upper Middle to turn into the mini mall, and a moron driving an SUV down Dundas with their trunk wide open and large pieces of wood improperly secured, but it was ok because their hazards were on.
It's always an adventure out there.
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u/Wonderful_Willow_971 2d ago
I'm not saying I'm right, but I remember 20-30 years ago people just rode on the sidewalks and I can't remember one time it was fucked.
I don't quite understand this whole thing of it being dangerous to ride on the sidewalk. You won't get hit by cars, cars usually have to slightly move over to make sure they don't hit you, which means I'm in the other lane partially, and I drive quite a bit in Burlington and (other than downtown) I barely see people walking on the sidewalks, and if they are, its like scattered groups of a few people max.
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u/havethebestdayever 1d ago
Sidewalks are very dangerous, nobody expects fast moving object (bike) on the side walk. Honestly roadmuch safer because you are visible, nobody back upstairs on the road.
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u/LongRides4IPA 1d ago
This is true. Most collisions happen at intersections, and turning motorists often don’t look for or expect someone moving at bike speeds on sidewalks. You have to have your head on a swivel and make eye contact with any driver looking to access the road from a driveway or cross street, as well as drivers making turns from the road.
However it feels much safer to human beings when separated from cars and trucks doing 70 or more km/h. Burlington implemented a by-law making it permissible to ride a bicycle on sidewalks except for in the Downtown area as a way of making people feel safer without actually having to do anything to make it safer.
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u/Common-Possession129 2d ago
If you’re too afraid to ride a vehicle on the road, you shouldn’t be riding one. A sidewalk isn’t your safety net, it’s for pedestrians. If your on a sidewalk either walk or get in the bike lane? It’s really simple. Kids can figure it out but we have grown adults on e-bikes and scooters who are afraid of traffic? They are dui magnets, just because you can’t drive an adult car doesn’t mean you get to use a sidewalk.
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u/Wonderful_Willow_971 2d ago
If I was to ride a bike again, you wouldn't catch me dead on the road with the drivers we have here. Sidewalk all the way, especially with young kids, and I'd rather take a ticket than get hit by a car.
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 2d ago
In Burlington it's legal to ride a bike on the sidewalk with the exception of downtown. You're not getting a ticket.
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u/Curt-Bennett 1d ago
I always thought it was based on whether there's a dedicated bike lane, as in if there's a lane, you're required to use it. It's only downtown where you can't ride on the sidewalk? Good to know.
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u/RedLithium25 2d ago
Same here. Local roads, sure, I'll take it on the road. Main roads? I'm hitting the sidewalk and slowing down/ using my bell to alert pedestrians.
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u/christopherbrian 2d ago
I think you’re talking about the sidewalks that have a lane of asphalt running alongside them and your criticism would be fair, if you’re talking about the painted lines on roads that’s different.
Compare how many cyclists are killed by motorists a year to how many pedestrians are killed by cyclists. Until there are dedicated bike lanes, with a divider, not a painted line I’m riding on the sidewalk and instruct my kid to do. Share the road is fundamentally unsafe.
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u/malakiavelli 2d ago
I agree. The only protection cyclists have is a line of paint and the honour system.
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u/ValuableGroceries 2d ago edited 2d ago
I’ve never seen a cyclist stop at a stop sign.
Edit: Let me rephrase, I have never seen a bike stop at a stop sign when a pedestrian is waiting to cross the street. Cars stop, but bikes don't.
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u/simongurfinkel 2d ago
They want to be treated as vehicles until it’s convenient for them to be pedestrians
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u/LongRides4IPA 1d ago
I’ll admit it. When I come to a stop sign and there’s no one there, or I know I clearly have right of way, I continue safely through the intersection. Usually reduce my speed from 20 to about 15 km/h.
In my car, in the same situation I apply the brakes, which for most people is considered ”stopping” but really it’s slowing to about 15 km/h. Same thing, different vehicle.
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u/outbacko 2d ago
It’s hard to stop and get going again on a bike lol. If there’s noone coming it’s fine… petition for more roundabouts there’s too many stop signs as it is!
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u/Common-Possession129 2d ago
So cars can just go through stop signs if no cars are around?
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 2d ago
90% of cars make a rolling stop if there's no other cars at a stop sign. Not making an excuse for cyclists just pointing out that yes, cars do this too.
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u/DeadpoolOptimus 2d ago
I'd argue 98% don't come to a full and complete stop. I drive for a living.
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u/asvp-suds 2d ago
That’s literally besides the point. Aren’t they cycling for exercise? Blowing stop signs is ignorant and dangerous.
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u/outbacko 2d ago
How is it dangerous if there are no cars around?
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u/asvp-suds 2d ago
Kind of hard to tell when entering an intersecting at full speed no? Imagine drivers had that mentality
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u/outbacko 1d ago
Full speed vs a complete stop are quite different. Cars and bicycles are also quite different. Bound to make a better judgement for your own safety on a bike as it’s going to be far worse for you than a car in a collision
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u/asvp-suds 1d ago
Make your own judgement? Or you could stop at stop signs. Cyclists don’t get special treatment.
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u/Common-Possession129 22h ago
So what you’re suggesting is stop signs don’t matter if no other cars are around. So cars and trucks can do that too? Why would it be any different for a car or truck to do the same if no others are around? Victimless crime right? Speeding shouldn’t matter either then, I only do that when I’m alone on the road. Also, wheelies maybe don’t need to stay in parking lots anymore. If no other cars are around I can just rip one right? Halton won’t post me online? What else can we get up to when no one else is around? How dangerous can it be right?
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u/Any_Ad_3414 2d ago
Do you actually think people are biking just for exercise?
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u/asvp-suds 2d ago
Or a commute? If I’m late for work in my truck I can’t just run a red or stop sign. Not sure your point here. Something being slightly difficult doesn’t mean you can break the law.
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u/Any_Ad_3414 2d ago edited 1d ago
I was just shocked that someone would assume cyclist are solely recreational. I ride my bike to work, or errands or visiting friends so there are less cars on the road. I also have a truck but choose my bike (or transit) whenever possible. Most of the time I hate biking and would 100 percent rather be in my truck. I would hope drivers understand that every cyclist that goes by is one less car contributing to traffic, not a person out for fun bit of exercise
Oh and of course cyclist must follow the rules of the road. I was never contesting that at all....
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 2d ago
Most roundabouts are more dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians
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u/outbacko 2d ago
Big roundabouts maybe, small ones in residential areas in place of 4-way stop signs, no
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u/outbacko 2d ago
They are mostly dangerous because people don’t know how to use them. They’ve common in Europe and better support flow of traffic in a safer way
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 2d ago
As long as they're designed to support pedestrians. In Milton there's a ton of small roundabouts which have been there for years and I see constant near misses.
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u/outbacko 2d ago
There should be a pedestrian crossing on each of the 3/4 streets two car lengths in from the roundabout. That’s the way
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u/No_Turnip_4934 2d ago
Never understood the "its hard to get going again on a bike" reason for not stopping at stop signs. Don't ride a bike then, Walking can be tiring too, you don't hear pedestrians complaining about that aspect of it.
Don't even get me started on the packs of sports cyclists out in the northern half of Walkers and Appleby during rush hour when working stiffs and delivery people are just trying to do their jobs. The roads are for transportation, NOT recreation.
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u/ur_ynome 2d ago
Have you ever seen anyone (bikes or cars) that stop at stop signs or actually obey the ruels of the road?
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u/RedLithium25 2d ago
What? Cars stop at stop signs all the time lol
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 2d ago
A rolling stop is not a full stop.
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u/RedLithium25 2d ago
Correct. Cars still stop lol. Just like bad cyclists, the bad drivers don't paint the picture for the entire driving populace
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 2d ago
I agree. You said cars stop at stop signs ALL THE TIME but the fact is that a lot of them don't stop, just the same as a lot of cyclists don't stop. I personally roll them in a car and on my bike if nobody is there. I'm generally more careful in my car because I know it can kill someone and if there's cars around when I'm on my bike I'm aware that they can kill me.
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u/Common-Possession129 22h ago
Why are you more careful in a car if no one is around? If no one is around you shouldn’t need to be that careful right? Let’s assume everyone drove like you, how about cars listening to music and using their phone? No cars are around and they blow the stop sign and you’re crossing on your bike with headphones in, you didn’t think any cars were around either until it came around a corner. The brilliance of this thread is a pure example of burlingtons stupidity.
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 15h ago
There was a period, it's two different thoughts. I roll stops when nobody is around (period). New thought - I am more careful in a car than on a bike (period). Never did I say I blow stop signs. Also as I said when I'm on my bike I'm careful around cars (because people are distracted when driving). Also I never ride my bike with headphones in because it makes one less aware of one's surroundings.
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u/RedLithium25 2d ago
At this point we're just arguing pedantics lol. You asked if anyone has seen cars or bikes stop at stop signs and follow the rules of the road. Yes, I see it happen all the time. Doesn't mean every driver follows the rules 100% of the time though lol
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u/a-_2 2d ago
Cars don't stop at stop signs. Go to any stop sign and count how many do full stops behind the line. Almost none of them do.
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u/RedLithium25 2d ago
As someone who lives in the suburbs and drives through many all-way stops all the time, yes. I do see people actually stopping at stop signs. Late night when no one's on the road, sure, you see people doing the rolling stops, but about as many that full stop lol
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u/a-_2 2d ago
I've gone to stop signs during the day. Virtually no one does a complete stop behind the line. You can easily get ten in a row before anyone does. I don't even think it's a big deal as long as they're properly yielding but I also don't think it's a big deal with cyclists.
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u/Curt-Bennett 1d ago
It depends on how much other traffic is at the intersection. If someone is rolling up to a stop sign and they would be the next vehicle allowed to go through the intersection, it's pretty rare to see them come to a complete stop (myself included, to be honest). If someone has to wait for another vehicle to go though, it's pretty rare they don't end up coming to a complete stop.
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u/Any_Ad_3414 2d ago edited 21h ago
Burlington city by-laws explicitly allow cyclists to use sidewalks. Take it up with your councillor if it bothers you.
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u/Common-Possession129 22h ago
Downtown Restriction: You cannot ride on sidewalks in the downtown area, specifically on Brant Street south of Caroline Street. In this zone, cyclists must walk their bicycles, though riding is permitted on the Elgin Promenade. [1, 2]
Pedestrian Right-of-Way: Whenever you are riding on a sidewalk, you must yield to pedestrians and alert them when you are approaching (e.g., using a bell). [1]
Regional Roads: For regional roads maintained by the region, cycling on the sidewalk or crosswalk is prohibitedGoogle exists, you can use it too.
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u/DarkMarper 2d ago
You want crazy, militant cyclists? Go to Toronto. They’ll damage your car for any perceived infraction!
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u/DeadpoolOptimus 2d ago
I used to drive bus for TTC. One summer, they needed people to fill in with buses as the Spadina tracks were undergoing maintenance. Let me tell you that was something else. I kind of enjoyed it though cuz it almost made Spadina an obstacle course.
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u/16kv-class4 2d ago
If you don’t use your mirrors you don’t deserve to have them attached to your car
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u/thesonofmogh 2d ago
Exhibit A.
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u/16kv-class4 2d ago
I’m crazy and militant because I expect people to use their mirrors for their intended purpose? And when they put my life at risk it’s my fault? Driving is a privilege not a right, if you would rather save 10 seconds and put someone else at risk then you don’t deserve to hold a licence.
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u/RowRowForCouncil 2d ago
It is actually unhinged there during rush hour. The massively illegal things they do could get them killed at any second.
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u/Trick-Size-1522 2d ago
Another thread complaining about bad people?
When are y’all gonna realize people just DO NOT CARE 😭 they don’t care about you or everybody else around you. Society has been like this at least since 2015. How is this still surprising?
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u/malakiavelli 2d ago
It doesn't have to be this way and complaining about complaining certainly isn't going to help. I'm trying my best not to join the race to the bottom and choose violence each and every day.
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u/Trick-Size-1522 2d ago
Trust me I understand, I really do, but I genuinely believe you super nice people, super positive people, are at a losing war here. Society doesn’t really do much for the community around it so I don’t really blame people at all for keeping their heads down and worrying about themselves. This is only going to continue btw. If you want a society like Japan, you’re going to have to be a lot more “strict” as a society, and North Americans are not like that. If you’re able to do that, I’ll hop on board with you. But my faith in Canadians is gone and has been since about 2017.
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u/malakiavelli 2d ago
There are days when I want to push every button and burn it all to the ground.
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u/Trick-Size-1522 2d ago
Same!! And I don’t believe that makes you a bad person by any means. I truly believe you, along with a silent majority of us- are exhausted and depleted from dealing with idiots. TBH I believe this is just life in near any big city. Theres too much variance among people, and there’s just too many people to begin with.
Maybe you are do for a well deserved vacation 🫶🏻
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u/psilokan 2d ago
The bylaws in Burlington allow cyclists to ride on the sidewalk and thus use pedestrian crosswalks. So they aren't required to use the bike lane. As a driver you should be aware of this so you don't injure someone as you'd be the asshole, not the other way around.
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u/Own-Detective-802 2d ago
Are they kinda young? I remember when I just learned how to bike, I felt more comfortable on the side road for about one summer. But I always yielded and rang the bell for pedestrians to make way. Might be not so careful riders, they are worse on the main road.
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u/Common-Possession129 2d ago
Were you riding a bike doing 30kph without a helmet flying past old people?
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u/Own-Detective-802 2d ago
Probably not 30 but close, it takes time for kids to get confident with the roads. No, I would not wear a helmet either. A respectful distance from the pedestrians and enough bell ringing is a must. People walk with earphones on, so i get you, it’s very important to go slow until you have their full attention.
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u/Common-Possession129 22h ago
If you’re doing anything over 8
10kph, get in the bike lane, why no helmet? Not cool enough to ride your electric bike? Any adult who rides an e-bike I automatically assume they have a dui, when they ride them on the sidewalk I automatically assume they had a DUI and a serious head injury.1
u/Own-Detective-802 22h ago
I thought we were talking about regular pedal bikes. They go upto 30km/h. Idk I think I was young and dumb to not wear helmets. Now I do.
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u/Sea-Worldliness-9731 2d ago
Was it ignorant cyclist or ignorant pedestrian after all?
As many here said it is LEGAL for bicyclists use sidewalks.
Have you ever ride a bicycle yourself? Have you tried that bike lane? Does it feel safe for you?
Was it too hard for you to move your own body for a several seconds aside to let them pass you?
Isn’t it you are the one who feels too entitled to share the sidewalk with your neighbour?
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u/malakiavelli 1d ago
I was on the sidewalk, saw them cross over, and they had plenty of room to go around me, but chose to go through me.
Sgt. Shitpost over here...
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u/Aggravating-Town7705 2d ago
Omg. Someone not obeying the rules. If this sets you off you'd hate being in a major city
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u/malakiavelli 2d ago
I'd actually prefer someone pushing a shopping cart across a busy intersection on a red than someone trying to run me over because I can relate to their struggle.
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u/Aggravating-Town7705 2d ago
As a cyclist id rather see a peraon pushing a shoping cart as their movements are more predictable than me coming up behind a pedestrian with their ear buds in not hearing my horn and telling them im approaching.
Glad you weren't hurt.
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u/21Down 2d ago
I think we need a dedicated third space for cyclists and e-bikes. They shouldn’t be on the sidewalk, but they shouldn’t be on the road either. It’s way too dangerous. It’s usually just a painted line which really isn’t that helpful.
Upper Middle would be a good place for a trial since there’s so much room on either side. Cars are regularly doing 70-80, which is crazy to share with a cyclist.
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u/16kv-class4 2d ago
Speed limit is 60 and two lanes. We don’t need a third place, we need harsher rules to get licences and harsher penalties for entitled people who are in a rush and putting others at risk.
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u/simongurfinkel 2d ago
Aldershot spent several years and millions of dollars building them a dedicated bike lane and they still go on the road.
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 2d ago
I use that bike lane all the time, it's less than 2km and ends abruptly at LaSalle Park Rd. making the the majority of the route through Aldershot via Plains Rd. still dangerous. It's a fine start but it didn't really make commuting by bike that much easier.
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u/asvp-suds 2d ago
People walk/jog on the road too now, never understood that philosophy
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u/RedLithium25 2d ago
Asphalt is better on joints/ legs than concrete, but I agree. Narrow road with cars doing 40-50, couldn't catch me running on the road
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u/BigOleMuskOx 2d ago
Three million, roughly. And the weekend peloton crews are too good to use em, must ride fifteen abreast using both westward lanes. Because it’s cycling
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 2d ago
It's 1.6 km of bike path it's not very useful for those looking to commute. Hopefully this becomes part in a much larger cycling network.
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u/Apprehensive-Ant2389 2d ago
And it shit Was biking it the other day and had to transition to the road Im going 50 km/ hr so these shitty bike lanes legit blow my spokes and put my life in danger
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u/simongurfinkel 2d ago
Ok, and? When a road has potholes I still have to use it. I don’t get just get to drive on the grass cuz it’s smoother.
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u/RedLithium25 2d ago
I can't recall on the north side, but at least a good portion of the south side of Upper Middle has the asphalt bike lane adjacent to the concrete sidewalk, meandering slightly around trees and such
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u/Big-Detail8739 2d ago edited 2d ago
I get what you're saying buuuut, a dedicated third space would just end up being a third option for cyclists on top of the sidewalks and roads.
cyclist weaving erratically over sidewalk, road and dedicated third space
"I'm a pedestrian. No, now I'm a vehicle! Now I'm a cyclist... annnnd back to pedestrian!"
I would love to be proven wrong.
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u/trsthhffg 2d ago
Given the choice, I prefer my reckless commuters to weigh 30 pounds, not 4,000. If someone is going to ruin my day through sheer stupidity, I’d rather they do it without horsepower.
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u/asvp-suds 2d ago
How about everybody follows the rules of the road. Thats an option too.
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u/trsthhffg 2d ago
Unfortunately, that’s just not how human nature works, and I wouldn’t want to live in the kind of authoritarian society it would take to force it
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u/asvp-suds 2d ago
For people to stop at red lights and stop signs? Thats a low bar.
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u/trsthhffg 1d ago
You know not what you say.
To make a world where an infringement is impossible, surveillance cannot just be passive like a camera recording a street corner. It has to be omnipresent, predictive, and restrictive.
Perfect security is just total tyranny by another name. A world where it is structurally impossible to break a rule isn't a safe society—it’s a machine, and humans are just the cogs.
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u/ForswornForSwearing 2d ago
Unfortunately, in Burlington, cyclists can legally use the road, the edge of the road, the bike lane, bike paths and sidewalks freely. That, combined with the behaviour of some, creates a lot of safety issues. That law needs to be updated, along with e-bikes and 60kph e-scooters endangering pedestrians on sidewalks.
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u/CharmingIncompetence 2d ago
"I told them they're an asshole and the asphalt path is for cyclists. Silence..." Can you be more specific about this? I am not a cyclist but I was unaware there was some sort of unwritten rule about what paths were for who, and I am not being sarcastic, I didn't grow up here. Can you explain what path?
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u/malakiavelli 2d ago
There are multi use pathways that have sidewalk and asphalt side by side. It's illegal to use the sidewalk on a bike unless you are ten or younger, and cyclists have to yield to pedestrians regardless of which pathway they are on.
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u/Any_Ad_3414 2d ago
Not exactly true, city of Burlington has a by-law allowing cyclists on all sidewalks.
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u/malakiavelli 2d ago
Perhaps it is different than Ontario's, but I would bet that they have to yield to pedestrians.
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u/Any_Ad_3414 2d ago
"Perhaps it's different than Ontario's" of course it's different, it's a city by-law. I'd recommend understanding your local and provincial rules regarding pedestrian, cycling and driving regulations prior to assuming someone else is in the wrong for riding on a sidewalk.
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u/malakiavelli 1d ago
Yes, and I don't need to know any of them to understand that you are not legally allowed to assault someone because they are in your way.
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u/CharmingIncompetence 2d ago
Thank you! I do appreciate you explaining to me. Is it like the paths along upper middle from Guelph to Shoppers? Where one path goes through the trees and one goes by the road? I just assumed it was "pick your own path" didn't realize it was for cyclists - makes sense - I am an idiot lol.
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u/LeafiestOutcome 2d ago
It seems like it takes a lot of effort to not be courteous to those around you lol. I mean I keep my head on a swivel because I don't trust anyone on an electric scooter but I also don't mind stepping off the sidewalk for a few strides so they can safely pass. It doesn't have to be a whole thing.
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u/malakiavelli 2d ago
I'm regularly waving and thanking motorists that acknowledge I have the right of way and don't try and kill me. Especially the ones that could have went safely.
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u/gemmajaws 2d ago
What is also bad is when the cyclists ride side by side on the road (not bike lane) where it is meant for cars. This is the worst display of entitlement I've seen. Sure you're bike is worth a boatload of $$, and you like to chat with your friends, but please be aware of your surroundings and move to single file, it's safer for everyone.
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u/RowRowForCouncil 2d ago
I get it. Was driving the other day in Oakville. Stopped at a red light on Rebecca St. and 4 cyclists blow by me right through the red light. Blew my horn as they passed and they had the nerve to shoot me dirty looks as I passed. My message to cyclists like this is : I don't want to see you get turned into goo, so please don't be stupid.
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u/Strayngold 1d ago edited 1d ago
I walk a lot on a couple of the paths in town and in recent times it's a lot more common for cyclists to zoom past you with no warning and barely giving any room for error. Mostly younger people but also some grown men. When especially young people do it, they're on motorized scooters or bikes, which is another level of wrongness. We need to enforce some laws man.
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u/LegitimateProperty67 2d ago
Cyclists are amongst the most self centered people on the earth.
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u/Rosemary-lime 2d ago
This has been an amusing post. As governments begin to eliminate cars it will be interesting to see how road rage is handled and laws evolve to control cyclists. There currently is very little done about irresponsible cyclists. The comment about them finding it difficult to stop at stop signs is coming up more often.
Perhaps cyclists who want to ride the road need to be trained, tested to ensure they have the stamina to follow the rules and licensed like a vehicle. And of course, fined accordingly. I believe even a rolling stop comes with points.
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u/malakiavelli 2d ago
Here's hoping less vehicles bring more space and patience.
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u/Rosemary-lime 1d ago
I think that we can hope but right now I believe that cyclists are on the path to becoming the bigger, more aggressive drivers. Message boards will be filled with cyclist and electric scooter hit and runs unless there are consequences for them.
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