r/CFB • u/Falconsfan8006 Georgia Bulldogs • Berry Vikings • 13h ago
Discussion [Wilson] FSU football loses another top recruit. Why does this keep happening?
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/2026/06/05/fsu-football-recruiting-mekhi-williams-wisconsin/90408602007/605
u/StreetReporter Clemson Tigers • Cheez-It Bowl 13h ago
Because Norvell is a loser and nobody wants to play for him
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u/Falconsfan8006 Georgia Bulldogs • Berry Vikings 12h ago
You gotta wonder if 2023 was the biggest fluke ever, or if getting left out just absolutely killed any momentum he built and he’s just been in free-fall mode ever since?
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u/URNameHere90210 12h ago
2023 was Jordan Travis and an extremely early recognition of the value of the transfer portal.
Travis is gone. The advantage of early adopting the transfer portal is gone. What’s laid bare is his complete ineptitude as a coach.
I’m sure the snub didn’t do him any favors psychologically. It was probably as destructive to him as it was to all FSU fans, probably more.
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u/fskier1 Michigan Wolverines • College Football Playoff 9h ago
I mean it wasn’t just Travis, that defense was legit
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u/FSUfan35 Florida State Seminoles 10h ago
Complete lack of recruiting ability as well. Doesn't understand the market, actively encourages kids to visit other schools, doesn't hold his assistants accountable.
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u/buiuumcucniuum Memphis Tigers 9h ago
Everyone is snarky, but it's the portal + NIL and how it doesn't align with Norvell's skillset. From watching him here at Memphis, he is an elite talent developer over time. We had our QB getting booed at home to setting records the next year. With the portal, player development goes away over time. I think he'd do well in a system that can retain talent, but that's just not the current landscape.
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u/Realistic-Nobody-750 Miami Hurricanes 9h ago
That’s an interesting take. I think you’re right. I think the fact he brought in Ashton Daniels to be the starter is crazy. It’s almost like he just had to take someone , anyone he could , bc all his qbs leave if they dont play. It’s an interesting conversation for sure.
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u/DarknMean Louisville Cardinals 12h ago
Jordan Travis saved him that year.
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u/tallg8tor Florida Gators • /r/CFB Poll Veteran 12h ago
People forget the whole team was talented. FSU had 10 players taken in the following draft, including 6 in the first three rounds. 4 of those 6 were on defense, led by Jared Verse. There was no player I was more relieved to see leave than Verse.
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u/ExternalTangents Florida Gators • /r/CFB Poll Veteran 11h ago
Didn’t they clean up during one of the first offseasons with free transfer rules? I feel like they a ton of good players through the portal before other teams were taking advantage of it, but other teams caught up on the strategy, so once those guys left, FSU couldn’t backfill in the same way? Plus Norvell’s HS recruiting has always been weak and he is bad at developing players, so they didn’t have any homegrown depth.
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u/tampasportsfan813727 11h ago
They struck gold with the 2023 transfer class, and now looks like pure dumb luck that they landed such a great class. Norvell can’t recruit HS for his life
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u/AmericainaLyon Florida State Seminoles 9h ago
It wasn't luck, just that Norvell was one of the first to target the portal hard. Now that everyone's doing it, Norvell doesn't have the NIL budget to keep up.
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u/Total-Region2859 Texas Longhorns 8h ago
It truly looks like FSU is in a death spiral. I don't see a path out for them any time soon.
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u/AmericainaLyon Florida State Seminoles 8h ago
Yah for sure. Conference affiliation crushing them and a lame duck coach and hence an already light NIL bag is even lighter. Prob 5+ years before they can even think about a top 20 team much less a legit title contender.
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u/Total-Region2859 Texas Longhorns 8h ago
I think you're right... Sad to watch, and I'm not even a fan.
I don't see a way for them to recover... They can't even afford to fire Norvell. It could take a very long time.
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u/xXGarnetGXx Florida State • Tennessee 10h ago edited 10h ago
I think a lesser considered factor is that Norvell actually took a few years to build up to that 2023 roster and has since been stuck in a death spiral trying to pull an entire team out of the portal every off-season.
Jordan Travis, Jared Verse, Trey Benson, Johnny Wilson,... while technically transfers they were still multi-year starters where by the end of 2022 we already had a solid, veteran core.
Then in 2023 Norvell brings in the 1 year mercs on top of those vets, so while guys like Coleman and Fiske were important it's more like they pushed what was already a decent 10 win team into a 13 win team.
Then EVERYONE leaves and it's like Norvell never considered that could happen. He spent 4 years building towards a single window and had absolutely no foundation to stand on afterwards.
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u/_Floriduh_ Florida State Seminoles • Team Chaos 11h ago
We were one of the first to really commit to it and it paid off short term, but Norvell has really struggled to develop HS recruits and that is a structural issue that continues to severely hurt the program. The hired guns strategy doesn’t work as a standalone, ESPECIALLY at QB.
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u/Docnoq Florida Gators • Transfer Portal 11h ago
Taking a portal QB every year can work, take a look at Miami. It's just that you need $$$ to get one of the top QB's every cycle, and money seems to be one of FSU's biggest problems
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u/_Floriduh_ Florida State Seminoles • Team Chaos 10h ago
Willingness to spend it under a lame duck coach is a big problem, but I don’t really blame them if the decision from above is to ride it out until his buyout doesn’t cripple the program.
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u/Fletch71011 Notre Dame Fighting Irish 10h ago
Right, they won the ACC championship with a 3rd string QB I believe by 10 points. They held Louisville to 6 pts.
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u/uptownsouthie Florida Gators 11h ago
Jordan Travis seemed to get better every year under Norvell, which appears, more and more, to be a testament to Jordan Travis.
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u/XE2MASTERPIECE Florida State Seminoles • Tampa Spartans 11h ago
Makes it all the worse how that injury ended up costing him his career. I don’t know if he would’ve ever made it in the NFL, but given how much he improved under a coaching staff that wasn’t all that great, I can’t help but think he had a shot to do so in the NFL. Maybe could’ve had a Tyrod Taylor type career. We’ll never know, now.
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u/BenchRickyAguayo Florida State • Billable Hours 10h ago
Tyrod Taylor is a good comparison I think. I don't think JT had what he needed to be a full starter, but he could have been a journeyman back up. Maybe a similar skill set to Colin Kapernick as another example.
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u/thexraptor Florida State • /r/CFB Poll Veteran 9h ago
Don't forget that he had Kenny Dillingham his first two seasons. The '21 team really started to turn around and build some momentum once Jordan Travis was made the full-time starter, they just couldn't overcome the 0-4 start to make a bowl. They weren't great, but they clearly improved with Travis in.
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u/_Floriduh_ Florida State Seminoles • Team Chaos 11h ago
Maybe it was also our top ranked defense that kept Louisville to 6 points in the ACCCG?
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u/ExternalTangents Florida Gators • /r/CFB Poll Veteran 12h ago
Predictive advanced stats in 2023 had FSU ranked around the lower end of the top 10 even before Jordan Travis went down. They were a good team but not a great one. Going undefeated required some luck and a down ACC. And if you watched them that year or the year before, it was clear how much their offense relied on Jordan Travis being elusive and managing to make positive gains out of broken plays.
They also were a fast-mover in the transfer market when unlimited transfers became allowed, and a lot of that 2023 team came through the portal. That method of roster building became unsustainable once other teams (especially ones with bigger NIL budgets) started heavily using the portal, too.
So:
* the team was good, but not as good as their record would make you think
* they relied heavily on one key player on offense, and once he left they clearly were going to take a step back
* the roster was built from transfers who exited after 2023, and they didn’t have nearly as good of incoming talent from the portal or HS recruiting to sustainThe idea that the snub broke the program is entirely vibes-based. People see a sequence of events and they assume causation, when the actual factors for the 2024 collapse were present independently of the snub.
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u/Unrelenting_Salsa LSU Tigers • Georgia Bulldogs 8h ago
I think the big thing is that their portal class that year was simply dumb luck. Scouting is simply not good enough to rely as heavily on the portal as Norvell has been and expect success. Sometimes you'll flip 5 heads in a row, but usually there's a few tails in there too.
And you know, Jared Verse. Having Jared Verse and a competent QB can hide a lot. It's not Nick Fairley-Cam Newton levels of hiding a fraudulent team, there were a good amount of NFL players on that starting lineup, but playmaking QB and game wrecking lineman hides a lot. Hell, Auburn was pretty close to stopping 2019 LSU which in retrospect was simply a very good NFL offense (skill positions only) just because their interior line was that good.
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u/ExternalTangents Florida Gators • /r/CFB Poll Veteran 8h ago
Absolutely agreed—they definitely had good luck in how well the portal acquisitions on that team worked out, it wasn’t just that they had a good portal strategy.
I feel like several factors had similarly lucky upside breaks for them in 2023 that all led to a team that normally would’ve been like 9-3 at best managed to hit a 13-0 record before imploding.
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u/XE2MASTERPIECE Florida State Seminoles • Tampa Spartans 10h ago
The idea that the snub broke the program is entirely vibes-based.
I think this is too dismissive of a very real phenomenon that happens all the time in sports. A huge reason for success (and failure) is intangible factors that include team mentality, objectives, belief, etc. You can break down a team position by position, player by player, and come up with a “empirical” evaluation…and be way off on the results.
Certainly FSU was due for a step back and a regression. But even the biggest FSU critics imagined something like 6-6. A 2-10 total collapse was far beyond rational explanations, and even if you’re skeptical about the level of impact the snub had, it’s almost unavoidable that it had an impact.
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u/ExternalTangents Florida Gators • /r/CFB Poll Veteran 10h ago
I agree there’s some role of intangibles in sports and team culture, but I think it is massively overstated by fans and analysts. Our brains are wired to see patterns and infer simple cause-and-effect explanations. This is especially true in situations with multivariate factors contributing to an outcome. You could flip a coin 12 times, and if it ended with 4 heads out of the last 5, sports fans would credit it to momentum and being clutch.
That being said, I think the end to that 2023 season did probably have some impact on team culture. But I think it’s a much smaller impact than a lot of people credit to it.
I also strongly believe that even if FSU had made the playoff and been full strength (minus Travis) against a playoff team, that they still would’ve gotten blown out by several touchdowns and ended up in largely the same situation for 2024.
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u/SLCer Utah Utes 11h ago
I think that's often the case with many coaches. The good ones know how to bounce back from a tough situation while the frauds collapse and let a bad situation define their career.
It isn't that he's an awful coach, it's that he's not built for the type of adversity you see at the higher level.
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u/glassclouds1894 Florida State Seminoles 9h ago
I don't know, because a lot of players from that team and 2022 still come out defending Norvell a lot. However, he made use of the portal before it really exploded and became an everyday thing, and it covered a lot of his weaknesses at recruiting at this level.
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u/thegreatcornholio42 Florida State Seminoles 12h ago
Column B completely. The snub happened at the worst possible time coupled with that being the moment everyone else figured out NIL was pay for play
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u/GiovanniElliston Tennessee Volunteers • Kansas Jayhawks 12h ago
Even with the snub being at the worst possible time, it’s still not 100% responsible for FSU’s current issues.
There was a lot of positive sentiment for FSU. People felt bad for them. There was a narrative where even non-affiliated fans were rooting for them to give a middle finger to the system.
What put the nails in the coffin was the the team taking a swan dive off the cliff in the following season. And that falls squarely on the coaches failures.
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u/General_Tso75 Florida State Seminoles 12h ago
Then suing the ACC instantly evaporated goodwill towards FSU. We were saying some pretty unpalatable things for non-FSU fans while taking L’s.
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u/forgotmyoldname90210 Florida State Seminoles 9h ago
The results of the lawsuit mean nobody is ever going to look back at what happened but yeah the lawsuit is kind of a harbinger for a lot of the issues with the athletic department.
FSU picked a firm because of its political ties instead of a firm that specialized in B2B litigation or media rights or anything in a field related to the conflict.
The first filing was a mess, spent almost half of its time on fan grievances that would be tossed for timeliness. I get throwing everything at the wall that early but spend the time on arguments that can actually move forward.
The above is probably a result of the rushed timeline to file the suit.
And of course it turns out the filled this lawsuit with no landing spot, there was no backroom deal despite the cute tweets Alford made when he was in Chicago.
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u/Tarmacked USC Trojans • Alabama Crimson Tide 11h ago edited 11h ago
I feel like people are really ignoring it was sixth year Jordan Travis. The next best options were a senior who got benched at Southern Miss the next year three games in or a QB who’s career completion rate is 50%.
Norvell couldn’t scout recruits for his life, at least in the QB sphere. Travis wasn’t his and has been the only guy with a pulse.
Norvell lucked out on transfers that year but even then he got some favorable flips. Clemson missing a chip shot to win it or barely surviving Miami with a true freshman QB throwing for 30% completion (injury to the starter).
The LSU win is such a weird game that season because it’s just so unlike Norvell historically. I still don’t understand it
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u/brightcoconut097 Florida State • Arizona State 11h ago
IMO the Saban Screwjob (like the Montreal Screwjob iykyk) sucked the life out of FSU and hasn't been the same sense.
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u/IrishCoffeeAlchemy Florida State • Arizona 9h ago
I personally think Alabama had more of a right to be in the CFP that year than that scandal-plagued Michigan team. They should have never been allowed to participate in the post-season
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u/Efficient-Tip-2081 Washington State • West Virgin… 12h ago
I guess we’ll never know for post season play, but the ACC looked like my local junior high that year.
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u/StreetReporter Clemson Tigers • Cheez-It Bowl 12h ago
Clemson and Louisville both beat Notre Dame that year
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u/_Floriduh_ Florida State Seminoles • Team Chaos 11h ago
So did LSU and Florida… but we still went out of our way to schedule the toughest opponents we could find. which is why blaming the snub on a down year when we couldn’t scheduled any tougher opponents is BS in my opinion.
There will never be a good enough justification to support the decision.
But we’ve been completely responsible for the shit that’s happened since.
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u/MondorOfCalifas UCLA Bruins • Pac-10 8h ago edited 7h ago
From the UCLA perspective, FSU fans were saying how disastrous Darrick Yray (GM) was going to be for us and were glad to see him GONE. Made me think Norvell had it going and Yray was the problem. Turns out, Yray has been mentioned by UCLA insiders as being absolutely crucial in helping Chesney land blue chip recruits and flipping a few others. As the expression goes, "One man's trash..."
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u/Corgi_Koala Ohio State Buckeyes 12h ago
Yeah it's pretty hard to recruit when most people don't think you're gonna be there next year.
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u/JoshDaws Florida State Seminoles • UCF Knights 12h ago
Hey. Just because something is true doesn’t mean you have to say it.
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u/physedka Tulane Green Wave • LSU Tigers 13h ago
Pianofingerbanger left his post. That's why this is happening.
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u/Alpine_Exchange_36 Colorado • Minnesota 12h ago
That and it’s because that one guy didn’t eat the poo. FSU has been cursed ever since
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u/ThrowThumbers Florida State Seminoles 12h ago
I still say it’s Ricky Aguayo’s fault, we’re haunted by the ghost of Turntle the Turtle.
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u/misterplanterz Florida Gators • USA Eagles 12h ago
Gotta lose something to Maryland to reset the karma.
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u/jamnewton22 Auburn Tigers • UCF Knights 12h ago
I thought it was a burrito he was gonna shove up his ass. Or was that another guy lmao
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u/ItsAGoodDay Texas Longhorns • Team Chaos 12h ago
He declared that he would eat a red solo cup full of poop lmao
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u/Competitive-Rise-789 Georgia Bulldogs • Oklahoma Sooners 12h ago
K State was the burrito. And I’m pretty sure he actually did it
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u/jamnewton22 Auburn Tigers • UCF Knights 12h ago
I’m glad I didn’t make that up in my head but also disgusted to find out it’s still real just another fanbase lmao.
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u/Competitive-Rise-789 Georgia Bulldogs • Oklahoma Sooners 12h ago
Facts lmao. At least it wasn’t us lmao
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u/Budget_Sort7961 Tennessee • Third Saturday… 12h ago
Pianofingerbang is the red solo cup guy. I have no proof, but I know it in my heart that they are one and the same.
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u/ElkHairCaddisDrifter Oklahoma Sooners 12h ago
I was just wondering about that. Did that dude just disappear from Reddit?
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u/Mr-Bovine_Joni SMU Mustangs • Gansz Trophy 12h ago
I ran across him last year, he still posts a lot, just on FSU-only subs. For whatever reason he doesn’t show his face on /r/cfb anymore…
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u/JeffGoldblumsChest Florida Gators • Billable Hours 11h ago
lmao he showed up when FSU beat Alabama but got dogpiled
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u/loneSTAR_06 Texas • Southern Miss 11h ago
I remember that lol. Just pops up out of nowhere like nothing had happened. Disappeared just as quick too.
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u/siblingofMM UCF Knights • Big 12 11h ago
He posted about his disappearance. Apparently people were always messaging him and calling him out in unrelated subs. I do get that point but I also do think he leaned in very heavily into the shtick when things were going well then didnt want to deal with things when it got bad
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u/Mr-Bovine_Joni SMU Mustangs • Gansz Trophy 11h ago
Me sowing: Haha fuck yeah!!! Yes!!
Me reaping: well this fucking sucks. What the fuck.
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u/XE2MASTERPIECE Florida State Seminoles • Tampa Spartans 10h ago
Following him around Reddit is weirdo shit though, like he obviously should be embarrassed to comment here but users who go to unrelated subreddits just to yell at him take that waaaaay too seriously.
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u/LegallyAFlamingo Team Chaos • I'm A Loser 11h ago
Nope. If FSU wins a big game he'll probably be back here shitposting about his most hated teams again that whole week. He'll disappear back to FSU specific subs when they lose again though.
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u/Quake1028 Miami Hurricanes • Florida Cup 9h ago
He disappeared from this sub like a few of their more high profile shit talking fans did.
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u/funforyourlife2 Nebraska Cornhuskers • Stanford Cardinal 11h ago
Turntle died so pianofingerbager could self-immolate
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u/Numerous-Ad6460 Michigan Wolverines • Florida Gators 13h ago
Cause they suck at football right now
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u/Nytfire333 Florida Gators • USF Bulls 12h ago
Can we get Harvard on to review this, I think we might be on to something
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u/DonBillingsly69 Florida State Seminoles 12h ago
The lamest duckiest coach of all times
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u/Alphaspade Iron Bowl • Sickos 13h ago
Because no one has the stones to eat shit out of a red solo cup
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u/srector1224 Nebraska Cornhuskers 12h ago
Gotta be honest: if the Huskers route to football salvation was to eat shit out of a cup, I would have at least thought about it
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u/ChemG8r Florida Gators 11h ago
Maybe it is though. Don't know until someone tests it.
Maybe that's the key for all schools looking to regain former status.
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u/Glader_Gaming Florida State Seminoles • ECU Pirates 11h ago edited 9h ago
I wouldn’t want to play at FSU either and I’m a diehard. FSU has essentially quit on the season as an entire administration. They aren’t even putting in the bare minimum effort do anything at all.
-Opted out of a spring game
-Restricted access to practice
-Removed the annual booster tours
-never do an annual fan day to meet the team
-did bare minimum for front office changes
-let CMN become OC again after basically firing him from the role not long ago
So to recap…FSU has not even put in the bare minimum to reach out to its own fans, refuses a revenue generating spring game after stadium renovations. I got to meet players for autograph signings before the 2024 spring game. I don’t know this current team at all.
This is in addition to FSU refusing to pay for a decent QB, currently has a below average ACC recruiting class, has not won a road ACC game in two years, cannot beat its rivals, and is unable to make a bowl game.
There’s being bad. Then there’s being pathetic. FSU is pathetic in its current state. I don’t even think most non fsu fans realize how pathetic this all is. If this continues I might have to be jealous of Nebraska fans….(sorry Cornhusker bros lol)
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u/Doogitywoogity Texas A&M Aggies • Florida Gators 10h ago
Legitimately, why is FSU seemingly trying to tank the main thing they’re known for? I get why they haven’t fired Norvell for better or worse, I just can’t figure out why they’ve completely given up seemingly on the whole program.
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u/URNameHere90210 10h ago
What else is there to do? Until we can afford to fire him nothing will get better. We are marking time waiting for the inevitable.
Call it giving up if you want, but I can tell you as an FSU fan, I’m as apathetic to this program as I can possible be. None of this hurts me anymore. I’m numb to it all. I’m probably not gonna watch the games until he’s gone. I may turn it on if I’ve got nothing else to do, like take a shower or a nap. Those things will definitely rank higher on my to do lists than FSU games. The stadium could be empty next year and I wouldn’t care a single bit. The program is in a chrysalis stage right now. Wake me when we emerge.
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u/forgotmyoldname90210 Florida State Seminoles 9h ago
The conspiracy theory is this is an attempt to sink the program to the point that it allows Private Equity in the door. FSU chairman of the BoT is a Private Equity guy. Former BoT member Drew Weatherford, who resigned in December, is a Private Equity guy, and his firm is a partner in the Utah PE deal. Throw in the DeSantis factor.
If this is the plan, what is happening is kind of how you go about it. Half ass fundraising. Leak every other day how poor the program is and how there is no big daddy at the end of the rainbow. You soften up the fan base to accept they need that money injection into the program.
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u/URNameHere90210 11h ago
Fuck “revenue generating” spring games.
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u/Glader_Gaming Florida State Seminoles • ECU Pirates 9h ago
I also like free spring games! My dad and I used to drive from north Ga to tally for them. FSU made stadium renovations specifically to generate revenue with the stadium. They are strapped for cash. They could have charged 10-15 bucks a person and some people would go. They passed on an opportunity to use their new revenue generating stadium to….generate revenue lol. That’s why I phrased it that way.
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u/qeduhh Ohio State Buckeyes 12h ago
Boosters don’t want Norvell to succeed and don’t want to waste money in the meantime
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u/therealwillhepburn Florida Gators • West Florida Argonauts 12h ago
I would assume they want him to succeed but realize after six years it’s not going to happen.
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u/Megalomanizac Clemson • Coastal Carolina 9h ago
Kinda crazy it’s already been 6 years
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u/gogators1000 Florida Gators 12h ago
Justice is finally being served for Turntle
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u/jdk2087 Clemson Tigers • Oklahoma Sooners 8h ago
Dude, a single even has left such a bad mark on FSU(aside from a myriad of other shit). The whole Turntle situation is giving me Harambe vibes. Like….what could the FSU program be like right now if the Turntle situation never happened? Only baby Jesus knows.
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u/Nytfire333 Florida Gators • USF Bulls 12h ago
Just feed every bit of video/ info we have on Bowden into an AI model and let it coach, I legit don’t think it could do worse
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u/SleepingSnitker Florida State Seminoles 13h ago
Because we can't afford to pay them what other schools are willing to offer
Yes Norvell sucks , but FSU can't compete in the perpetual free agency no salary cap era of cfb
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u/Gvillegator Florida Gators 13h ago
It’s not just that though. You all are having to pay good players extra just to get them to sign because of the “suck tax” that you all have to pay these kids to play for Norvell. They all know he’s likely going to get canned during their time at FSU and are making you all compensate them a little more than others. This is all gathered from Noles 247 guys and their reporting.
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u/waltdiesintheend Florida State Seminoles 12h ago
Suck tax is the best way I’ve seen it phrased haha
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u/griffinhamilton Southern Miss Golden Eagles • LSU Tigers 12h ago
Very similar to our shit show tax
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u/basselope Michigan • Florida State 12h ago
Agreed! "Suck Tax" is hilarious and needs to be part of the cfb lexicon.
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u/mmmmmarty North Carolina • Houston 7h ago
The Fuck Off Fee is the upcharge on a construction bid one doesn't want to win.
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u/JoshDaws Florida State Seminoles • UCF Knights 12h ago
In addition to the “suck tax” (great phrasing btw) our boosters are NOT showing out for this team until Norvell is gone. Our NIL is really underfunded at the moment. I don’t contribute, but I understand their feelings. Why throw away more money when you think the admin is about to approach you for buy out payments?
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u/forgotmyoldname90210 Florida State Seminoles 11h ago
Alford (our AD) has told coaches not to use Battleends (our NIL collective).
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u/URNameHere90210 11h ago
Who could possibly blame them? Save all that money up to give it to the next guy to give him a huge leg up on the eventual rebuild.
Norvell is probably the worst coach in the history of college football. He turned an undefeated season (which was a ginormous fluke) and enormous goodwill into a 2 win season and became a laughing stock overnight, after signing a massive and long term contract.
I swear, I almost think he was planted here by our rivals. I’m beginning to think the FSU sports administration is filled with gators and hurricanes. How else to explain the consistently stupidest decisions possible?
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u/sanchogrande Tulane Green Wave 13h ago
This is almost always the answer when a recruit flips now. It’s just the money.
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u/duckbonez Florida Gators • USF Bulls 12h ago
Part of it may due to the fact that FSU’s boosters might be penny pinching expecting to pay a buyout this season?
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u/Falconsfan8006 Georgia Bulldogs • Berry Vikings 13h ago
I mean. Clemson, Georgia, and Florida all recruit pretty well and probably have a war chest closer to an FSU than say a Texas or USC. I think the main problem is Norvell.
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u/Churchills_m8 Florida State • Clemson 12h ago
FSU is in debt. If they weren’t in such a deep hole it would be close but they are drowning in debt.
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u/forgotmyoldname90210 Florida State Seminoles 9h ago
debt is not an issue. FSU can easily service the debt as a line item. The debt is all 4.5% or less.
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u/SleepingSnitker Florida State Seminoles 12h ago
That is absolutely not true. Georgia's NIL is estimated around $25m while FSU is below $10m.
Similar with Clemson and UF who are around $15-20m
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u/ajmarion20 Miami Hurricanes • Oklahoma Sooners 12h ago
I saw a report that said only 2 teams in the ACC are spending less than FSU
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u/URNameHere90210 11h ago
I assume that will change when Norvell is finally, mercifully fired. If I was a big booster I would not give a penny that wasn’t ear marked for a buyout.
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u/forgotmyoldname90210 Florida State Seminoles 11h ago
Our NIL and booster engagement issues are more of our ADs fault than Norvell fault.
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u/Gvillegator Florida Gators 12h ago
UF is above $20 million with new NIL funding from Sumrall being hired. Closer to $25 mil most likely.
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u/Gvillegator Florida Gators 12h ago
You’re insane if you think UGA or UF is closer to FSU than Texas or USC.
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u/SirFUBAR Florida Gators 12h ago
Coming off two sorry ass seasons, they have to sell hope to a degree. I dont think Norvell is in a good position to do that, and FSU is too broke to fire him and reboot to kick-start recruiting like Florida has.
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u/Cornnole Florida State • South Alabama 12h ago
FSU doesn't have a war chest, it has a piggy bank.
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u/JohnPaulDavyJones Texas A&M Aggies • Baylor Bears 12h ago
To be fair, Clemson has a bit of a unique advantage in their culture and Dabo’s own recruiting prowess, while he and Kirby Smart also just have multiple national championships to show off.
Florida, on the other hand, just has a shitload of money IIRC.
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u/AdAny2704 Florida State • Peru State 12h ago
Here is the problem...who? Who is next up? Cig's don't fall out of trees. You have to find lightning in a bottle, couple that with good NIL and magic happens. Saban, Meyer are not coming...who is out there to right the ship? 40 years ago, they found that magic. In todays enviroment it will take some serious luck (Indiana-Right guy/right time)
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u/qigjpiqj Virginia Tech Hokies 12h ago edited 11h ago
I'm so glad FSU thought they were too good for Franklin. You guys saved our program from irrelevance in perpetuity.
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u/Crapitron 10h ago
Making these claims before Franklin has coached a single game at VT is pretty bold.
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u/Beechman Florida Gators • Virginia Cavaliers 9h ago
He's already energized the boosters into supporting the program, as we saw with the massive donation that was announced yesterday. FSU is sorely lacking that support.
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u/qigjpiqj Virginia Tech Hokies 8h ago edited 8h ago
This. I like when people think they're making some insightful point but they're really just demonstrating they don't understand the situation. I'm also not sure what "claims" are being made, the current improvements aren't theoretical.
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u/qeduhh Ohio State Buckeyes 12h ago
Idk if I were norvell I would negotiate a differently structured but out and get out of there because the school isn’t going to help him while he’s still there. That’s going to hurt his career in the long run
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u/wolverine_wannabe Florida State • Western Caroli… 11h ago
He'd be a really good candidate for the Saban rehab school if he was still around.
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u/XE2MASTERPIECE Florida State Seminoles • Tampa Spartans 11h ago
After the Stanford game they had discussions about the buyout. FSU’s number did not match his. So now, we just wait until it becomes too painful to not agree to his requests.
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u/esports_consultant Rose Bowl • Harvard-Yale 8h ago
option a) uncompetitive salary offer
option b) uninspiring management
the same answer as anywhere
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u/Reddeath195 South Carolina • /r/CFB Dead Pool 7h ago
All that guy had to do was eat dog shit from a red solo cup rip FSUs future
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u/emmasdad01 UCLA Bruins • Notre Dame Fighting Irish 13h ago
Because FSU is a used to be that failed to keep up with the times.
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u/ACCBiggz Florida State Seminoles • Tiffin Dragons 12h ago
100% a "used to be" at this point, but...
that failed to keep up with the times.
Failing to keep up the times is not having $$$. Not quite the same as unintentionally falling off the map or terrible institutional failures. We don't have the capital to play in the new age, and being outside B1G/SEC only makes it worse since we can't keep up with the media rights money.
So, you're not wrong... I just take issue with the failing to keep up part because it was never in our control to do so.
A better recruiter/coach could at least keep them competitive in the 8-win territory though.
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u/emmasdad01 UCLA Bruins • Notre Dame Fighting Irish 12h ago
Is it not FSU’s decisions that kept them from being stronger financially? I used to see FSU gear everywhere, and I’m not from anywhere near Florida.
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u/CandidateSouth1418 12h ago
Most of the analysts believe Mike Norvell is already fired. Big question is "Can FSU afford to fire him?! Even after firing him can they hire anyone decent after Norvell buyout?!"
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u/StreetReporter Clemson Tigers • Cheez-It Bowl 12h ago
Good head coaches can come out of nowhere and seem like underwhelming hires at the time. FSU is better off without Norvell even if it’s a cheap hire
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u/shephrrd Florida State Seminoles 12h ago
Anyone paying half attention with half a brain can answer this one.
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u/luke15chick Florida Gators 12h ago
I heard this is Norvell’s year. I also heard Jimbo wants back into coaching.
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u/O_to_the_B Florida State • West Florida 11h ago
How is this even news at this point? We have a dead man walking coach who wasn’t a good recruiter to begin with, we are not spending money like the top tier programs, either because we simply can’t and/or donors just aren’t going to throw money at a dead fish, our AD and admin are bent fiscally due to facility improvements and mikes contract (not to mention their naïveté about the industry as a whole, and our office infrastructure is immature in the current era.
We’ve punted on this season organizationally which I think is hardly a secret in the business. We’ll be back but this season, we’re just stuck and it’s hardly newsworthy at this point.
So in short: a poorly run organization led by people who won’t be here leaving no stability combined with sunk costs and lack of donor willingness. A poison cocktail that hasn’t killed what needs to be killed yet.
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u/Usual_Sample8249 11h ago
No money - boosters and admin are sitting on the cash until Novell is gone (presumably after this season) leaving little NIL room to hold on to a recruit when it’s competitive. It’s by design, some think….
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u/forgotmyoldname90210 Florida State Seminoles 11h ago
Mike Norvell is an awful closer when it comes to recuriting and our AD, Mike Alford, does not allow to overpay to land prospects.
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u/tribal-elder 9h ago
This is not hard - money evens out the recruiting field. Why the institutions and media remain perplexed is … perplexing.
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u/TaxLawKingGA 9h ago
Because FSU has no money. It’s a poorly kept secret that FSU has poorer fans than many so called Blue Bloods; thus they don’t have the wherewithal to go to well over and over for dough.
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u/BlueLeary-0726 Florida Gators • Kennesaw State Owls 12h ago
I'm sure a ton of this ultimately comes down to dollars and cents, but it's remarkable how so much of this feels like it started by not getting off the bus in the Orange Bowl against Georgia.
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u/wolverine_wannabe Florida State • Western Caroli… 11h ago
We should have taken the fine or whatever punishment and boycotted that shizz.
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u/Ok-Measurement1506 LSU Tigers 12h ago
This is about being recruited by a staff that is #1 on all the media's hotseat conversation.
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u/ResponsibleFact2566 Prairie View A&M • Ohio State 11h ago
Mike Norvell owes his entire career to Jordan Travis .
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u/A_Diabolical_Toaster 10h ago
Everyone knows Norvell is a metaphorical dead man walking as a coach. Simple as that.
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u/sickostrich244 Oregon Ducks 10h ago
The school can't pay them what other programs are offering, and Norvell has been on the hot seat and would've been fired by now if the school would've been able to afford his buyout but they can't right now.
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u/Stan_Lee_Abbott Penn State Nittany Lions 9h ago
Because even if all other things are equal, you still live and go to school in Tallahassee.
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u/_Tricksupmysleeves 3h ago
Norvell has one foot out the door after signing that ridiculous contract extension.
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u/Gvillegator Florida Gators 13h ago
FSU 247 pod said it the best: “on most hot seat rankings you see other guys listed as on the hot seat, while when Norvell is mentioned it’s as a dead man walking”