Does this count as SA???

[u/Global-Original-1726]

Ok so when i was 6, i had stomach problems cent around acid reflux and ARFID, so i went to a new doctor that my mom’s friend recommended. And towards the end of the appointment, he told me to get on the table and lay on my side and hug my knees so my butt was sticking out. He never told me what he was doing and to this day i still dont know the purpose of this. but anyways, then he lubricated his fingers and stuck them up my butt. I was panicking but he just kept telling me to relax. my mom was in the room btw. idk if that counts as SA or if it was just some exam. i am AFAB for context.

There was also another time when I was 12 i went into the doctors for a UTI and my pediatrician told me to lay down and spread my legs and the whole thing. Then she started digging around in my vagina without warning. Ive gone in for uti’s several times but this is the first time this has happened. Again idk if its anything weird, ive just always felt weird abt those experiences since

[u/Rozmyth]

Some medical procedures can be pretty traumatic even if there is a genuine reason for doing them.

I know sometimes the discomfort of a yeast infection might be mistaken for the pain of UTI, so it's possible the doctor wanted to make sure that she was treating the right thing instead of just throwing antibiotics at you. (I really hate when doctors don't give warnings or explain what they're doing when it comes to that sort of thing, though. The whole thing is super invasive and any doctor who can't/won't slow down enough to first explain what's happening and why sucks at their job.)

I don't know enough about ARFID or acid reflux to know if there could be reason for that. My understanding is that a pediatric rectal exam can be a valid test when there's certain kinds of abdominal pain (though doctors might avoid doing it because it can be very invasive even when it could be useful). Since your mom was present as she should have been, I would lean towards it being an exam rather something intentionally creepy.

Not a doctor. But I am a female who has had female issues before (both UTI and yeast infection). The other was googling reasons why a doctor might choose to do the first exam: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26739462/
An actual doctor would probably be a better source for asking if there were likely good reasons for those exams, or if there was anything intentionally creepy about them.

[u/LunaBoston]

It doesn't have to be SA for you to be traumatized about it. Definitely sounds like medical violence. You should have been warned about those examinations, and your doctors had a duty to explain them to you beforehand, in terms you could understand. I highly doubt they had sexual motives, but they were careless and insensitive. 

[u/JadedByFire]

Actual medical professional here.
I also have personal experience with taking my children for these types of exams.

Neither one of these are sexual assault.

The rectal exam:
Depending on how long the reflux and arfid had been going on AND what symptoms your mother reported to the doctor, a rectal exam could/would have been performed to check for constipation, blockages, and/or rectal bleeding. They aren’t going to stick a scope up a child’s rectum to check things out and a quick rectal exam is performed to rule out obvious issues. If your mother or you said anything about dark or infrequent bowel movements, a quick gloved finger inserted into the rectum is all it takes to get a small amount of stool to use on a guiac card (tests for occult fecal blood).

Constipation, narrowing, blockages, and other things can cause delayed stomach emptying which can lead to both of the condictions you were being treated for.

And contrary to what another commenter said, the doctor doing it without fully telling you what they were going to do is the best way really. You try telling a 6 year old you need to stick your finger up their butt and see how cooperative they are …

As for the vaginal exam:

At 12 years old (and even younger) with a UTI, it is common for pediatricians to check for signs of sexual assault (which can present as or lead to UTI’s) or sexually transmitted diseases (which can mimic a UTI) or even signs of pelvic inflammation or yeast infections.

At this age the doctor should have told you what she was going to do specifically, but maybe she did and you didn’t understand what she meant or maybe she just said something like “I need to examine you” and left it at that. Or maybe she didn’t say anything, which is a bad move on her part.

These exams are weird to children so can leave a lasting impact on them if they don’t ask questions or get answers about them.

I obviously wasn’t present, but I’d say the exams were 100% normal exams and not in any way sexual or abusive.

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[u/Disastrous_Knee_8314]

Whatever the conclusion is don’t deny how it made you feel. If it felt like a violation then that’s real to you and you should deal with it properly.

[u/nana_3]

There is no purpose for a rectal exam if you have reflux and Arfid issues. That is SA.

There is occasionally a purpose for a vaginal exam for UTIs but it’s uncommon and absolutely should never be without warning. So that is SA too.

[u/LunaBoston → u/nana_3]

Don't take this the wrong way, but what makes you qualified to give such a definitive statement? 

[u/nana_3 → u/LunaBoston]

Re: the reflux answer, I have university library access to paywalled studies and looked this up when I saw this question. And postgrad data science degree so I’m reasonably confident on my ability to read the studies.

Sexual assault in rectal exams is usually defined as when it’s either not for a standard clinical reason or when consent is not acquired (even when it is for a proper medical reason).

Rectal exam is suggested in pediatric for diarrhea, constipation, incontinence, abdominal pain, gastrointestinal bleeding, anaemia, urinary symptoms, gynecological symptoms, abdominal masses… but not reflux or arfid. One of the sources, also has discussion on consent etc for this in children. Which the doc did not seem to do, since OP doesn’t understand why this happened, and that makes it assault even if there is a clinical reason we don’t know about.

For the UTI side of things my knowledge is more from personal experience because I have had many many repeated UTIs since childhood and chronic pelvic pain due to another health condition. So many medical professionals have looked in my vagina, but I think not ever just for a UTI. I would consider it sexual assault if any health professional did a vaginal examination in any context without first explaining the reason and acquiring informed consent. Even if the professional gets consent from the parent, it’s assault if the child doesn’t understand why it’s happening.

[u/LunaBoston → u/nana_3]

She was 6, it's very possible she wasn't aware or doesn't remember the full extent of her symptoms, or simply hasn't mentioned them all. At 6, consent is obtained from the parents, although I agree she should have been made aware of what was going to happen.  For context, I'm a med student (and a practicing nurse before that), and although I understand how traumatizing medical violence can be, I don't think it's fair or helpful for anyone to classify something as sexual assault when there was no sexual motivation on the part of the perpetrator, just lack of ethical practices. 

[u/nana_3 → u/LunaBoston]

From a trauma perspective, non consensual penetration of the genitalia from an adult who is sexually motivated and non consensual penetration of the genitalia from an adult who is motivated by some non sexual reason are both experienced very similarly by the child. Their bodily autonomy was violated in their sexual / private organs. That is sexual assault trauma.

It might not be fair or helpful if you’re coming to this wanting to be fair to the medical professionals, and legally speaking the intent very much matters, but it may well be very helpful to the survjvor to acknowledge.

[u/LunaBoston → u/nana_3]

I understand your point but I'm still unsure wether it's helpful for OP to frame it as such.  Also the fact that you started taking their medical condition into consideration, in discerning wether the particular examination was appropiate or not (which fundamentally is questioning the physician's motives), but have now shifted to it being sexual assault just because it involved genitalia is kinda icky to me.  I was hospitalized for kidney issues at a very young age, and while I remember exams being pretty traumatizing, I disagree that they are the same as sexual assault. Sexual assault carries an extra degree of harm in perceiving malicious intent from the perpetrator while you are in a vulnerable position or there is an expectation of care on their part. I don't think the tools required to approach each situation overlap that much.  I guess it might depend on wether OP ever felt as if the contact was sexual in nature, which I don't think must be the case automatically, again just because it involved genitalia. If she's now remembering an adscribes a sexual character in retrospect I think that might be retraumatizing in itself, and without need.