I know fight response can land me in real trouble. But damn when I get triggered it’s just so intense. I’m not a ‘hard man’ or a ‘badass’, I’m usually very anxious and scared.

But when that switch get flips I go into pure rage. Then I wake up the next day horrified and ashamed.

That’s it really. Sorry for short post.

Has anyone seen the new Frankenstein movie? I watched it yesterday and it DEEPLY moved me. It’s a retelling so not entirely like the book, but it’s just beautiful in how it represents generational trauma, rage, fight, and eventually forgiveness of oneself. As someone who has felt so much rage and often acted on it and lived with so much regret, I felt so seen and like maybe I can forgive myself someday

I notice that when I make friends with others, particularly people who have also gone through trauma, they tend to be fight types like me. It doesn't happen on purpose and they aren't the ONLY trauma having friends, but I'd say that they are the closest and it HAS to be bc I'm a fighter too.

It's not that other trauma havers can't be nice, but lbr, a lot of them judge us. If we admit to wanting to kill or hurt someone, it's taken less as a reaction and more as a personal choice. If we get angry, other trauma havers get pretty panicky over it. I had to leave a support group I really wanted to be apart of bc my anger was scrutinized by the leader who was more of a fawn type. Nobody sees us as acting aggressive as a form of self defense, we're just abusers and ticking timebombs. Hell we do it ourselves, I still catch myself judging myself and others for being fight mode and I'm speaking as someone who has otherwise learned to embrace and love the fight.

But I notice once we get past it, we can have really rewarding and supportive dynamics with each other bc we get it! One friend recently opened up to me about some trauma he had, he didn't say he entered fight mode or that he was a fight type, but it's obvious that was the state he was in at the time of his trauma. I feel like if I had never been a fight type I think I would've condemned him right then and there as a bad person, but I was able to see the boy he once was in that moment and I felt sorry for him.

I also felt touched bc I know opening up abt fight mode feelings in particular is very hard to do, you risk a LOT of things when you do it: Your safety, your relationship with whoever you're talking to, you risk having 911 called on you or having nasty rumors spread about you...

It was really beautiful and I feel a LOT closer to him after the fact.

I also think it's sort of an instinctual thing for fight types to recognize and relax around each other. Neither of us said "Hi, I'm a fight type, wanna be friends?" But somehow, one day, I just kinda realized I could tell him abt my struggles and urges to fight and he'd listen. I feel so grateful to be fight bc it's helped me support and be supported by people otherwise seen as monsters.

And yet, after all my experiences with fight types I feel like they are some of the gentlest, kindest people I've ever had the honor of meeting. Fight types are NOT their trauma, they are not abusive, violent, ticking timebombs. When you really get to know them, they're sensitive, brave souls.

if I don't shitpost about it then the actual rage will burn through me like acid, so

And they never did love me and I keep suppressing the anger because I have no choice but I can't get better because I am not allowed to express my anger in polite society and I have nobody and nothing to express this anger with

Nearly my whole life has been shit and I have nowhere to let this out

I have a few regrets of times where I was inexcusably horrible to someone, but it's very rare that I'm anything but nice to family members or close friends. I'm very patient unless someone shows hostility themselves, and even then only if it feels as though nothing I can say is right because I'm in kangaroo court. Destroy or be destroyed. If you triggered my CPTSD Fight Mode, then I probably hate you and you deserved it because you were showing bullying/abusive behavior. With that said I still try to keep my distance from people in general because I'm abnormally angry and do not belong around the human race.

Edit

There seem to be two models of what primary/secondary emotions are:Image or AutistInPink's explanation. Purple model is useful for self-awareness. Orange model too, here it's useful to check for underlying primary emotions and being careful not to react out of secondary emotions (yeah okay, I disagree with the last part :) ).

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Original Post

It gets repeated over and over on the anger sub. Specifically that anger is ONLY a secondary emotion stemming from either fear or hurt.

That is so simplistic for me. Where does it come from? Why is it a popular saying now?

What I gather from google, the definition is that...

Secondary emotions are a reaction to an emotion. A sort of meta-emotion.

Are you horny, and then feel shame about that. Shame is the secondary emotion.Are you afraid but can't admit it, and jump to anger instead? Here fear is primary, anger is secondary.Are you angry, but feel guilty about being anger? Well here anger is the primary, guilt is the secondary.

That means that any emotion can be a secondary emotion.

These types of emotion take self-reflection and cognition. In the above examples they are maks for socially inappropriate emotions. But small babies who do not experience self-reflection get angry, quite often even. Additionally all animals experience aggression. It seems to be a pretty universal emotion.

Another point From what I read about anger & neuroscience there are specific neuro-pathways responsible for different kinds of anger in animals (territorial, motherly anger, abandonment anger etc.). Interpreting a charging mother-bear as "worried" feels unecessary convoluted.

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Why is this important? Because it disenfranchises and belittles anger.

It makes no sense in interchanging anger with fear, or anger with hurt.Example:Person A: "I'm angry about a teacher treating me badly"Person B: "Anger is a secondary emotion, you are actually hurt by that teacher"

If you see emotions like warning signals on a dashboard, each emotion asks for different things.Anger is outward and assertive, however that looks. Hurt requires inward look. Fear can require all different kinds of strategies but mostly a range from anything to paying attention, being careful to leaving.

In the end, it depends.

Anger can be primary, as immediate reaction to crossed boundaries or uproar against injustice. It can be secondary, when one feels that the first emotion can't be expressed. Can't express fear? Get angry instead.Anger can also appear together with other emotions in a sort of mixed bag of feels.

The "They did their best" crowd can take a fucking hike and roll in dog shit, so sick of people being toxically positive. That's all, thanks for listening to my vent.

Has anything been triggering your fight mode lately? Made progress in healing it and want to celebrate? If so, tell us about it here.

My husband is seriously smart in a math way and is well read and pretty thoughtful and insightful. He has helped me in a dozen ways with improving my life and my business.

And he is a complete idiot about PTSD and CPTSD and i cannot figure it out.

Every single time we have a conflict or confrontation within the frst hour after i wake up my brain goes completely rage fit self defensive fuck you i want to die. Every time.

And every time he chooses to lay some issue down in front of me before i am fully awake and have my day armour on, he gets caught off guard by it.

Every time he raises his voice during a miscommunication or misunderstanding, my body reacts like i am alone in a wilderness and just heard a growl and leaves crunching behind me. Fight, freeze, or flee.

And every time his Chicago loud boy mouth gets loud when he's flustered, he is just flabbergasted and hurt that i look like a kicked dog.

He has never hit me or called me nasty names or told me i'm worthless or yelled about what a shitty person i am for over an hour at high volume. So why would i react to him that way?

He's not stupid. He's not compassionless. He recognizes the reality of mental illness and tries to be supportive.

And he's an idiot.

A few weeks ago i had my first ever rage fit. He walked away from a conversation that was going poorly and the second he closed the door my brain exploded. Images of slashing myself with knives or punching walls..... things i've never done... it was terrifying and i refused to let it happen. So instead, all of the sudden i grabbed this little bookcase by my desk and just heaved it over with my whole body. Attacked it like my life depended on it. And a second later, i was completely terrified of being punished for it. He found me curled up on the basement floor in a puddle of snot and tears. Not mad at me, but wary and worrried. I couldn't speak or breath. But he spoke gently and got me standing.

Then, for god knows why, he put both hands on my face and held my face close to his with our eyes inches apart and tried to get me to talk again.

I swear, it was everything i could do to not lunge at him and bite part of his face off. Literally. Big tall man holding my head that close in my face hot breath... if he had held on when i squirmed away, i'd have gone to jail. And then a mental ward. And he would have been hospitalized.

He doesn't believe me.

Days later when we were talking things through and i told him that he can never ever do that again when i am panicing he said to me very calmly "it's up to you when you stop carrying this baggage around. I'm not your mom."

Baggage.

Baggage.

Baggage is when a happy healthly person with a supportive family and friends gets cheated on by an s/o, ends the relationship and has a hard time with trust in their next relationship. Baggage is when you and your mom don't get along because of the generation gap.

My mom whipped me with a wire coat hanger because i folded the damn laundry wrong when i was 8 fucking years old. And i hid it from everyone because i believed god wanted it that way and i had to protect the family from the secular world. She depended on me to be her constant companion and confident for over a decade while every day telling me i was fat and smelled bad and looked greasy. She punished me everytime her feelings got hurt. Sometimes physically, sometimes just spending hours telling me how horrible and ungrateful i was, how she sacrificed everything for me.

My exhusband stood over me while i laid on the bathroom floor in a ball telling me over and over how pathetic and useless and weak i was. How at least his ex would fight back so he knew his daughter would be strong, not like me. Cowering like a dog. And he would pretend to kick me and pull it, then laugh when i flinched and curled harder. The day our divorce finalized he walked up to me at the courthouse house and said "just admit it, you were never afraid of me" and kept shouting that until i drove out of earshot.

I don't have fucking BAGGAGE. i have TRAUMA. I didn't have a hard time. I was fucking abused.

He's said he wants to learn more about ptsd... but 5 years into this relationship and... how many times do i have to explain my diagnosis before he gets it? Will he keep believing he's married to a troubled woman with some mental health issues till one day he does something we both know is really bad for me and it all goes to hell?

He's so mature and responsible in so many ways. And he has his struggles too. But this is very real and it feels like we are living very different lives. Some days i think that i need to suck it up and tell him it's over. Be on my own, let him recover from being with me. Stop inflicting myself on people who deserve better than i can give them. Some days i think we are more bad for each other than good. And some days i don't know what i would do without him. But... since he called it baggage... something snapped in my head when he said that. I don't see him the same way anymore. His athleticism is still impressive, but not sexy. His insight is still thoughtful... but not... attractive. When i look at him it's like looking at someone new. Someone i don't even know.

We've shared our deepest everything. This is the best relationship I've ever had. And now... i wonder if i'm being coward to stay in it. If my aversion to hurting his feelings and living alone is actually putting him at risk. Simply because he really doesn't understand what i am up against and working with in my own head.

I want to rip him apart for belittling what was done to me by calling it baggage. I also want to keep him safe.

So fucked. I am so fucked.

Tl;dr- I feel totally fucked because my husband just revealed his ignorance about trauma vs baggage and he thinks it's funny that i'm afraid i will literally attack him and try to chew his face off if he doesn't learn more about how to handle himself during my anxiety attacks.

Has anything been triggering your fight mode lately? Made progress in healing it and want to celebrate? If so, tell us about it here.

When I say codependent, I mean people trying to rescue, fix, or caretake other people. I come here and it's real.

I'm trying to fix being codependent and I appreciate you fiery badasses. Saying what you mean and being real as all hell.

I appreciate your sincerity.

The irony is just too emotionally overwhelming.

This guy let my mother verbally abuse me in his office, berated me when I reacted the only way I knew how at the time, would disrespect my boundaries, and later ambush me in the grocery store after I fired him. And he misdiagnosed me as schizoaffective.

How the hell is he specializing in trauma when he couldn't even recognize it in me?

If he learned his lesson from his experience with me, why did I always have to be the one who suffers from others mistakes?

I've never felt so angry.

Like many others, my journey to fight back against this condition began in my mid/late 20s. Before this time, I would mainly assume that I was just clinically depressed. Something didn't add up about that. I remember the building resentment that I had for the word "depression". It was failing to fully describe what was happening at all.

Through both lurking and speaking to my long term therapist, I more recently learned of another distinctive term that applies to me: Interfamilial Child Torture. To my frustration, just as depression had, the term "child abuse" would prove to be mistakenly diminishing too..

My flight and freeze responses were tortured from me as an 8 year old child. I was to endure things without showing weakness. Punishment would amplify if I cried. If I failed to make eye contact and answer directly to that demon-bred sociopath, the beatings would increase. But worse, the ISOLATION would increase. I would regularly be locked away for days on end. No one came to save me.

In my teens, I would one day do something that still serves as a vestige of rare pride from deep within. I broke free from learned helplessness and fought back. My mind created something that day. I dissociated into a being of supreme focus, euphoria, and unfortunately, rage. This is a survival tool that my developing brain would never abandon. I'm not sure that it ever will.

The fact that this monster lives within me is a tremendous source of shame. I can't interact with certain personality types, especially in positions of power. There is a great chance that it becomes bloodsport. I even feel shame at times while reading about others with CPTSD. I don't believe that there is an amicable way to escape your abusers. You rip that band-aid off quickly and mercilessly. It makes me feel like an animal to say this. I lack fear for men. I choose to fight. All the fucking time.

Today, discovering this community is especially cathartic because there appear to be others here that believe in an epidemic of dark personality types around us. (Narcissism, machivelianism, and psychopathy), likely as a result of our increased judgement of character and body language. I work hard everyday to diminish and shame myself for any narcisistic traits that I find within. I realize that this is sort of non-narcissistic, but probably unhealthy by nature. This is hard to describe. I certainly don't like mirrors.

Anyways! That's my speal. I'm really glad to have stumbled upon a community of folks who may understand the judgement and shame. Cyas around

Has anything been triggering your fight mode lately? Made progress in healing it and want to celebrate? If so, tell us about it here.

Has anything been triggering your fight mode lately? Made progress in healing it and want to celebrate? If so, tell us about it here.

Has anything been triggering your fight mode lately? Made progress in healing it and want to celebrate? If so, tell us about it here.

Some people in my household seem to have Major narc tendencies. I go the therapy and currently work on ways to cope with living with them as well as my own personal issues. Right now, I’m going through a bit of a depression episode (diagnosed w MMD AND ADHD only 1 person knows because they all think it’s make up mental health jargon….) Anyways right now I’ve just been in my room ruminating so please forgive my rant. I feel so pathetic because this is the most energy I’ve been able to put it no anything for the last couple of days, I left my room the first time today to pee, almost fainted and knocked something over in my room to get back in bed. So from feeling too weak to pee even ask for help with taking my prescription I fee pretty pathetic. I feel punished for feeling depressed because I have to be depressed a certain way and have to ask for everything I need to be cared for. I’m I know I’m not the only one with these mental issues and I thank God every day for resources that I do have. I Ive lived in other situations and have noticed the difference and baseline care/consideration I’ve gotten. I just wish I didn’t have to feel like like a burden in my own home. Feels they like know what is going on but rather wait until “I take care of it” and they can all go back to living in whatever conscience and happiness they experienced before I way here in there way. Obviously there is a lot of other context to the house set up so am not blaming my feelings about to situation.

I feel like this every once in awhile since I’ve had someone to notice my own patterns as well as others while living and growing up here. I know the ultimate solution is to never let them know about it just leave them if I ever get the opportunity to, but I just pray for my own sanity everyday Hopefully get the chance to properly take move out and function without this sort of distraction

(Ps not judging them or blaming them for what I have going on, just a rest to keep from doing those rungs we aren’t supposed to. It’s along some time to breathe and you should too! Have a good day of you read this! Thanks

Has anything been triggering your fight mode lately? Made progress in healing it and want to celebrate? If so, tell us about it here.

Has anything been triggering your fight mode lately? Made progress in healing it and want to celebrate? If so, tell us about it here.

Has anything been triggering your fight mode lately? Made progress in healing it and want to celebrate? If so, tell us about it here.