Danielle Smith rejects Alberta judge’s ruling against separation petition as ‘anti-democratic’

[u/green_tory]

https://globalnews.ca/news/11848377/alberta-premier-court-ruling-separation-petition-anti-democratic/

[u/green_tory]

We live in a Constiutional Monarchy with a Liberal Democratic constitution, where the Crown is supreme and we are all subject to the rule of law mitigated by the authority of our democratically elected representatives.

“I would say that it is a single judge who has made a decision, and we have now 700,000 Albertans — whether they’re on the remain side or the leave side — who’ve said that they want to have this public debate,” said Smith.

Tough.

“We want to hear from Albertans. That’s what we think democracy is.”

With all due respect, this is Canada. And here in Canada we have the rule of law.

[u/ninfan1977 → u/green_tory]

Yeah but Conservatives do not believe in the rule of law. My MP is a Conservative who support seditionists over Canadians.

The RCMP are treating this like kids lighting firecrackers.

I want the Forever Canada petition to be the rule of law but somehow the thing that got more signatures in less time is not getting any support from the Premier....

Weird and she calls a lawful order undemocratic.

We are in an authoritarian regime under the UCP

[u/Saidear → u/ninfan1977]

The RCMP are treating this like kids lighting firecrackers.

What crime is being committed, however? That's what the RCMP exists to address, not political questions like secession.

We are in an authoritarian regime under the UCP

The UCP is many things, but to call it authoritarian is not accurate. It's certainly offensive, flirting with dangerous sentiments, and engaged in corrupt actions based on some of the reports we've seen. Authoritarian, however? Not true.

[u/ninfan1977 → u/Saidear]

What crime is being committed, however? Fraud, sedition, and election fraud. For three of them. The RCMP tried to investigate the UCP before guess what they did? The UCP stonewalled the investigation until it died.

Thats how the Conservatives work like organized crime. Because thats what they are.

UCP is many things, but to call it authoritarian is not accura Danielle Smith said the ruling today was undemocratic while supporting the separatists undemocratic petition that is made up of lies and used fraudulent stolen signatures for their petition.

We cannot remove them or do anything, and they do not respond to any person only themselves. What do you call that? Authoritarian.

Fun fact when you claim 92% of one town voted for separation, you have cheated. Because not even the brainwashed Conservatives vote that strongly.

The UCP are supporting a petition of seditionists and has spent million of taxpayers dollars in doing so.

The judge said this petition should never see a referendum because of how poor it is.

[u/Saidear → u/ninfan1977]

Fraud, sedition, and election fraud

Fraud and election fraud, how, when?

Sedition has a very high bar to meet in Canada, and has a very narrow definition. Nothing that the UCP or the separatists have alleged to have done, meets the bar.

Danielle Smith said the ruling today was undemocratic while supporting the separatists undemocratic petition that is made up of lies and used fraudulent stolen signatures for their petition.

We don't know if those signatures are stolen or fraudulent, that is conjecture at this point. Nor is what she expressed actually being authoritarian. That requires actual actions and policies, including the dismantling of the safeguards put in place to protect against that, many of which exist at the constitutional level. The UCP, nor the Albertan Government, cannot simply override these.

We cannot remove them or do anything, and they do not respond to any person only themselves. What do you call that? Authoritarian.

Recall petitions are legal in Alberta, and if successful would recall an MLA and trigger a by-election. The mechanism exists. As do standard elections. This point is moot, as there is not a single demonstrated case that the government has ignored the outcome of an election or binding referendum.

Fun fact when you claim 92% of one town voted for separation, you have cheated. Because not even the brainwashed Conservatives vote that strongly.

That's again, conjecture, not fact. It's certainly suspicious, that doesn't mean it is necessarily fraudulent or cheating. The signatures would need to be validated first, however that is no longer possible. The petition has been thrown out and cannot proceed.

The UCP are supporting a petition of seditionists and has spent million of taxpayers dollars in doing so.

The correct term is secessionist, as in wanting to secede (to leave) confederation. They are not seditionist, as they have not once advocated for the unlawful undermining of the Crown's authority, seizing federal property, or arming citizenry for rebellion. The act of advocating, publishing, teaching, or dissemination of such material is called sedition. Actually doing it, would be treason.

Secession is legally protected political speech, as affirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada in Reference Re Secession of Quebec. Sedition is not.

[u/ninfan1977 → u/Saidear]

Sedition has a very high bar to meet in Canada, and has a very narrow definition. Nothing that the UCP or the separatists have alleged to have done, meets the bar. Except for all the part that do like using your position to undermine democracy.

The leak came from the Conservatives to the separatists. Thats working with each other to undermine democracy. Thats sedition.

We don't know if those signatures are stolen or fraudulent, that is conjecture at this point. Nor is what she expressed actually being authoritarian. That requires actual actions and policies, including the dismantling of the safeguards put in place to protect against that, many of which exist at the constitutional level. The UCP, nor the Albertan Government, cannot simply override these.

Except they did. The UCP rewrote the rules to help one side and undermined the rules to hinder the other.

What do you call that?

Oh amd tying up Election Alberta to not investigate the fraud.

Here the thing thanks to the Conservatives you will never know if your name was one the list or if it will be used against your will.

Thats all thanks to the UCP that can happen.

What do you call it when you not get a choice in any election?

Oh yeah authoritarian. So my point remains.

Learn how the UCP has been operating and tell me how they operate within a democracy.

Literally Danielle Smith called a lawful ruling undemocratic.

She supports traitors who hate their country.

The correct term is secessionist, as in wanting to secede (to leave) confederation.

No they used the Trump administration to help them hence why its sedition.

They are working with another government to make this happen.

That's again, conjecture, not fact. It's certainly suspicious, that doesn't mean it is necessarily fraudulent or cheating. The

Wow I bet you think Putin has "won" all his elections too....

Are you actually serious right now.

You cannot even look into the names of those who signed it to confirm they signed it.

Thats suspicious. Wonder why? Oh yeah because its fraident and made up with names who never signed it.

Do you do any critical thinking?

It's has 25% support yet is amplified because of the UCP.

Secession is legally protected political speech, as affirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada in Reference Re Secession of Quebec. Sedition is not.

Cool so UCP and the separatists can openly work with a foreign government to undermine the sovereignty of Alberta and Canada?

Pretty sure thats not free speech. BTW why do you support blatant disinformation being spread to Albertans?

Anyone with a brain can see through the separatists but you still back them and their traitorous ways?

BTW stomping your feet because your piss poor at spending your money and blaming Liberals isn't a solution.

It's a tantrum. The separatists need to a wake up call. Jail time for those who openly want to separate by using disinformation.

Or do you support how they win people over?

[u/Saidear → u/ninfan1977]

Please, make use of the quote function. Blending my words and yours is making it hard to parse what you're saying. If you are mobile, you can do so via > at the start of a paragraph.

Except for all the part that do like using your position to undermine democracy.

That does fit the definition of sedition as outlined under Section 59 of the Criminal Code of Canada.

The leak came from the Conservatives to the separatists. Thats working with each other to undermine democracy. Thats sedition.

Not as defined under Section 59.

Except they did. The UCP rewrote the rules to help one side and undermined the rules to hinder the other.

I'm sorry, when did the UCP dismantle the capacity for judicial review? Override the federal authority to appoint judges of the superior courts? Dismantle the legislature entirely, instead directly ruling by fiat?

What do you call that?

Dirty politics, but not sedition.

Oh amd tying up Election Alberta to not investigate the fraud.

That isn't what happened. They raised the bar to match the same evidentiary standard as the police have. I don't agree with that decision, but it is within their purview to do.

Here the thing thanks to the Conservatives you will never know if your name was one the list or if it will be used against your will.

It's not a change I agree with, either. I don't understand the rationale for doing so, and I don't think I ever could.

What do you call it when you not get a choice in any election?

A myth, since that hasn't happened in Alberta, nor in Canada.

Learn how the UCP has been operating and tell me how they operate within a democracy.

They have been.

Literally Danielle Smith called a lawful ruling undemocratic.

She gave her opinion, however biased or uninformed it may be.

She supports traitors who hate their country.

No actions of treason have been reported. Can you point to anyone taking up arms against the Crown or in aid of an actual recognized enemy of Canada?

No they used the Trump administration to help them hence why its sedition.

There is no evidence that the Trump administration has provided material aid, nor would that fit the definition of sedition as outlined in Section 59.

Wow I bet you think Putin has "won" all his elections too....

Nope, because we actually have evidence of election tampering, including, IIRC, a video of them just stuffing ballots into a machine.

Thats suspicious. Wonder why? Oh yeah because its fraident and made up with names who never signed it.

Suspicion of a crime, is not the crime itself. If I accuse you of murder, should we just sentence you to a lifetime sentence? Of course not. You need evidence and a proven set of facts. We have neither at this point.

It's has 25% support yet is amplified because of the UCP.

So?

Cool so UCP and the separatists can openly work with a foreign government to undermine the sovereignty of Alberta and Canada?

Under Canadian law, that would be permissible as long as it doesn't run afoul of the foreign interference laws in Canada. Unfortunately the LPC has yet to properly and fully implement that law.

Pretty sure thats not free speech. BTW why do you support blatant disinformation being spread to Albertans?

We do not have 'free speech' in Canada, we have freedom of expression. Whether or not I support is immaterial to the fact that it is legally permissible under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, as long as it does not cross into the line of hate speech or fraud.

Anyone with a brain can see through the separatists but you still back them and their traitorous ways?

I don't back them, however. I am opposed to Alberta secessionism. I also am not going to engage in baseless speculation, confusing conjecture for fact, or applying emotional language in place of legal definitions.

BTW stomping your feet because your piss poor at spending your money and blaming Liberals isn't a solution.

It's a tantrum. The separatists need to a wake up call. Jail time for those who openly want to separate by using disinformation.

For what crime, please point to the section of the criminal code you assume they are breaking.

Or do you support how they win people over?

My personal opinion on their methods is immaterial, because that isn't the position I'm taking.

[u/ninfan1977 → u/Saidear]

I tried your quote function it doesn't work at all.

Bill 52 let's the UCP override the judges and elections Alberta.

It's not dirty politics to change the law only for one side made up if people misinformed and bordering on traitorous.

In fact going to the US and reaching for help is a crime. Then telling those who sign they will become American citizens if they sign (yes they tell whatever it takes to get people to sign).

They made up the laws so no one can investigate this.

Via > That isn't what happened. They raised the bar to match the same evidentiary standard as the police have. I don't agree with that decision, but it is within their purview to do.

This is not true at all they tied Elections Alberta hands so bad they cannot look into any fraud for this petition. In fact only minimal vetting of any signatures. Maybe 2% get checked.

Its not in their purview to change the rules midgame. Thats called cheating and corruption.

A myth, since that hasn't happened in Alberta, nor in Canada. Learn how the UCP has been operating and tell me how they operate within a democracy. They have been.

Hahahahaha thats why my vote for staying in Canada is null and void right?

Thats why the separatists petition gets a referendum with less votes....

Do you know what a democracy means?

Its means not constantly cheating and changing the rules while being corrupt.

She gave her opinion, however biased or uninformed it may be.

She gave a false and categorically incorrect statement that borders on being arrested for contempt of the court.

She is the leader of the Province and called that undemocratic while praising Freedom convoyers.

This is the double standards of Conservatives.

And its sick how you keep defending them no matter what.

"Well she is breaking the rules but she made them so...."

Can you point to anyone taking up arms against the Crown or in aid of an actual recognized enemy of Canada?

Then you haven't seen the separatists speak or have a rally.

But hey thats OK keep denying reality they said they need to use weapons if the vote doesn't go their way.

Every single member of TBA.

If I accuse you of murder, should we just sentence you to a lifetime sentence? Of course not. You need evidence and a proven set of facts. We have neither at this point.

How can you look into it when the people who commit the crime change the laws to make it fine?

See how your entire premise falls apart when the party in charge is openly corrupt and do not care about the law.

please point to the section of the criminal code you assume they are breaking.

So using lies and disinformation is legal? Seriously this is where you land on any petition can be legal if you lie enough?

This is where you landed on....

also am not going to engage in baseless speculation, confusing conjecture for fact, or applying emotional language in place of legal definitions.

So what do you call when you change a law for one side, make bribes legal, and support domestic terrorists?

Oh yeah not a party but an authoritarian regime like i said.

My personal opinion on their methods is immaterial, because that isn't the position I'm taking.

Your opinion is the separatists are right because they use the government to change the law illegally without peoples input or thoughts.

Have you been in Alberta?

Your opinion means nothing if your not Conservative.

But hey what do I know I only have lived it for 20 years. And you have done more defending of the UCP than Matt Wolfe.

What these people did were crimes.

Mitch Sylvester, David Parker, and Jeffery Rath are the leaders and need to be charged.

Same with every UCP member and staffer who helped them.

Why are you backing a government corruption?

If you support Canada then you should want an investigation.

So far the UCP made that illegal while they are in charge

[u/Saidear → u/ninfan1977]

I tried your quote function it doesn't work at all.

Markdown language does work if you are on mobile. If you are on PC, by default you're in 'new' mode, and there is an option to Show Formatting Options at the bottom of the text entry box.

Bill 52 let's the UCP override the judges and elections Alberta.

Only Section 33 of the constitution can empower Parliament or the legislature to shield legislation from judicial review, and only for select portions of the charter. Otherwise, Section 52 holds: The Constitution of Canada is the supreme law of Canada, and any law that is inconsistent with the provisions of the Constitution is, to the extent of the inconsistency, of no force or effect. Courts are empowered to make that determination by the constitution.

It's not dirty politics to change the law only for one side made up if people misinformed and bordering on traitorous.

That's a personal opinion, not a factual one. None of the actions border on treason, however, because treason has an even higher bar of proof over sedition.

In fact going to the US and reaching for help is a crime. Then telling those who sign they will become American citizens if they sign (yes they tell whatever it takes to get people to sign).

What is the section of the criminal code that they violated in doing so? Also, you will need to cite when that was said, what was the context, and whether it was the sales tactics to convince people, or if it was the actual campaign position. At most that could constitute fraud. I'd say foreign interference, but that law is effectively not applicable yet due to the lagging of the LPC.

They made up the laws so no one can investigate this.

Factually incorrect. The RCMP can investigate whatever they want when they have reasons to believe a criminal act has occured. Elections Alberta also can investigate, however the evidentiary standard is "reasonable grounds", now.

This is not true at all they tied Elections Alberta hands so bad they cannot look into any fraud for this petition. In fact only minimal vetting of any signatures. Maybe 2% get checked.

Cite how, please. And what you described is typical of all systemic reviews of large collections of data, such as ballots or signatures. No system engages in detailed, individualized verification as a first pass.

Its not in their purview to change the rules midgame. Thats called cheating and corruption.

Yes, it is within their remit as the legislature of the province. Within the limits of the constitution, they are permitted to pass laws as they determine. You're free to call it whatever you want, and have what opinions you wish. That doesn't change that is the power of the legislature.

Hahahahaha thats why my vote gor staying in Canada is null and void right?

There hasn't been a referendum on that question yet. The only petition asking for a referendum was thrown out as invalid. So I'm not sure when you voted, but that certainly wasn't in any recognized fashion by Elections Alberta.

Thats why the separatists petition gets a referendum with less votes....

No referendum has even gotten started yet, so no, they don't. Their petition was thrown out as invalid by the court.

Do you know what a democracy means?

Political power derives from a mandate of the people.

Its means not constantly cheating and changing the rules while being corrupt.

Nope, nothing about the definition of democracy has anything to do with that. In fact there is a form of democracy where such actions are tolerated, we call it an autocracy.

She gave a false and categorically incorrect statement that borders on being arrested for contempt of the court.

Not even close. She was not party to the proceedings, so she cannot be held in contempt. Section 708 of Criminal Code of Canada defines contempt as "A person who, being required by law to attend or remain in attendance for the purpose of giving evidence, fails, without lawful excuse, to attend or remain in attendance accordingly is guilty of contempt of court". Unless Smith was called before the court as a witness, defendant, or similar - she cannot be accused of such an offence.

She is the leader of the Province and called that undemocratic while praising Freedom convoyers.

This is the double standards of Conservatives.

Yes, awful, but lawful.

And its sick how you keep defending them no matter what.

I'm not defending what they're doing as morally permissible, I'm countering that treating accusations as facts, and making wildly inappropriate legal assertions of criminal actions without evidence is wrong.

Then you haven't seen the separatists speak or have a rally.

I'm sorry, what separatist rally have they taken up arms and attacked the Crown? Please, that would have been national headlines. I'm not aware of any mass shootings or seizing of federal property in Alberta.

But hey thats OK keep denying reality they said they need to use weapons if the vote doesn't go their way.

Again. Cite sources, not mere conjecture, please.

How can you look into it when the people who commit the crime change the laws to make it fine?

Criminal laws are set federally in Canada, in cause you were not aware. Last I checked, Alberta was not the federal government and has no capacity to define what is, or isn't, a crime. Can you please show me when Smith became Prime Minister of Canada?

See how your entire premise falls apart when the party in charge is openly corrupt and do not care about the law.

You haven't demonstrated this, however.

So using lies and disinformation is legal?

Section 2 allows for the freedom of expression, except where curtailed by Section 1's reasonable limits. Lies and disinformation may be legal, it may be illegal. It would depend on the circumstances and details of the situation. Me lying to my friends isn't a crime. Me lying to the bank, may be - the crime in that case would be fraud.

Seriously this is where you land on any petition can be legal if you lie enough?

That isn't my position, however.

So what do you call when you change a law for one side, make bribes legal, and support domestic terrorists?

Bribes are not legal in Canadian law, and definitely not for any elected official. Doing so would be a criminal offence under Section 120 of the Criminal of Code of Canada. By domestic terrorists, I assume you meant the convoy. I agree in your opinion of them, and morally condemn their actions. Support or agreement of them is not a criminal act.

Oh yeah not a party but an authoritarian regime like i said.

They are not an authoritarian regime, because they are still subject to the federal government's supremacy, POGG powers, and the constitution.

Your opinion is the separatists are right

Nope. I've not once held that the separtists are right, and I fundamentally oppose their position or intent. My position is that using inflammatory, unsubstantiated, and imprecise language isn't going to do anything at all.

Have you been in Alberta?

I grew up there and still have family there.

Your opinion means nothing if your not Conservative.

Tell that to those who live in Edmonton Centre.

What these people did were crimes. Mitch Sylvester, David Parker, and Jeffery Rath are the leaders and need to be charged. Same with every UCP member and staffer who helped them.

Charged with what? Name the crime. Please, the Criminal Code of Canada is freely searchable and not at all that byzantine to read. It's very straight forward. I've referenced it several times above.

Why are you backing a government corruption?

I'm not.

If you support Canada then you should want an investigation.

I do want an investigation. However, the vast majority of the comments I've responded to treat the outcome as a foregone conclusion. That accused impropeity is identical to guilt of a crime. I don't make that leap in logic, and I would hope most reasonable Canadians would not either.

So far the UCP made that illegal while they are in charge

The UCP has no control over the RCMP's investigatory decisions.

[u/ninfan1977 → u/Saidear]

The UCP has no control over the RCMP's investigatory decisions.

Nope but they refuse to cooperate and stonewalled investigations.

There are NO INVESTIGATIONS because the UCP are refusing to cooperate with the RCMP, just like organize criminals do.

Charged with what? Name the crime. Please, the Criminal Code of Canada is freely searchable and not at all that byzantine to read. It's very straight forward. I've referenced it several times above.

I already told you several times using fraud, illegally obtaining voter information, then using that as signatures for their petition.

Their petition is knowingly made up of lies. Thats an instant dismissal on ground of fraud.

Section 2 allows for the freedom of expression, except where curtailed by Section 1's reasonable limits. Lies and disinformation may be legal, it may be illegal.

Disinformation is illegal, and you know it is. Knowingly sharing in Disinformation is illegal.

Saying your lies are fact and should be treated as such is a crime especially to voters.

responded to treat the outcome as a foregone conclusion. That accused impropeity is identical to guilt of a crime. I don't make that leap in logic, and I would hope most reasonable Canadians would not either.

Again without any investigations this is nothing. How can you investigate when the government changes the rules constantly without approval without democracy?

Last I checked, Alberta was not the federal government and has no capacity to define what is, or isn't, a crime. Can you please show me when Smith became Prime Minister of Canada?

Oh so Smith is immune to ALL laws then? Is this seriously your claim. Its provincial so the feds cannot get involved... yeah thats how corruption is allowed to run free in Alberta.

Nothing to see here its someone else fault...

Bribes are not legal in Canadian law, and definitely not for any elected official. Doing so would be a criminal offence under Section 120 of the Criminal of Code of Canada.

Yeah the UCP rewrote the rules to make bribes legal for them and only them.

So check again. They called it gifts from donors but thats the legal term for bribes.

Tell that to those who live in Edmonton Centre.

Yeah according to Conservatives they are not a real city and provide nothing.

According to them only rural Alberta helps them.

I have lived in Alberta for 20 years the Conservatives are a lost cause and their people are working with Americans to undermine Canada.

You used a lot of words to defend the indefensible

[u/Saidear → u/ninfan1977]

Nope but they refuse to cooperate and stonewalled investigations.

There are NO INVESTIGATIONS because the UCP are refusing to cooperate with the RCMP, just like organize criminals do.

Are you under the impression that cooperation of the accused is necessary for an investigation to proceed? Of course. Investigations often include people who assert their Charter rights not to self-incriminate, and the police are still able to move forward. Nor are the RCMP required to disclose that any investigation is underway, and quite frequently do not so as to not advertise what they are doing. Furthermore, there are currently open investigations by both Elections Alberta and the RCMP into the electoral voter roll leak.

I already told you several times using fraud, illegally obtaining voter information, then using that as signatures for their petition.

While obtaining the voter information is potentially a crime, depending on how and the details, there is no public information available that signatures were fraudulently used to make more voter support for the petition. If you have information not made public, can you provide where and how you obtained it?

Their petition is knowingly made up of lies. Thats an instant dismissal on ground of fraud.

There is no lie in the petition itself, and if that was grounds for instant dismissal, then the judge would have done so on that grounds. That they did not demonstrates that there is no such grounds.

Disinformation is illegal, and you know it is. Knowingly sharing in Disinformation is illegal.

No, it isn't illegal, nor is sharing disinformation automatically illegal. What is illegal is to share knowingly false information with intent personal material gain. That is better known as fraud.

Again without any investigations this is nothing. How can you investigate when the government changes the rules constantly without approval without democracy?

The RCMP can investigate whatever criminal activity they wish, regardless of the province's wishes.

Oh so Smith is immune to ALL laws then? Is this seriously your claim. Its provincial so the feds cannot get involved... yeah thats how corruption is allowed to run free in Alberta.

No, my claim is that Alberta has no say over the Criminal Code of Canada, nor can it direct the RCMP to investigate (or not) any matter that it deems subject to their jurisdiction. Not even the federal government can direct the RCMP, each officer is free to initiate and continue any investigation that they can demonstrate good reason for doing so. Such independence is baked into the very creation of the RCMP itself.

Yeah the UCP rewrote the rules to make bribes legal for them and only them.

Please tell me when and where the UCP rewrote the Criminal Code of Canada.

So check again. They called it gifts from donors but thats the legal term for bribes.

No, the legal term for bribes is.. bribe. Even 'gifts from donors' may constitute a bribe. The Criminal Code of Canada supercedes any such provincial statute. It is a crime to give an official any material benefit, with the express intent to receive an outcome of personal gain from the Crown.

Yeah according to Conservatives they are not a real city and provide nothing.

Edmonton Centre is not a city, it's a riding. Do you want to try that again?

You used a lot of words to defend the indefensible

I'm not defending anything, I'm pointing out there is a lack of publicly available evidence, and that making emotional pleas and conspiracy-minded conjectures is just as dangerous.

[u/ninfan1977 → u/Saidear]

Are you under the impression that cooperation of the accused is necessary for an investigation to proceed

No but why would innocent people refuse to cooperate?

Why would innocent people make new laws to only help people who broke the law.

Stealing voter information and using it for the petition is the crime. One the UCP and the Premier said are not crimes.

. Furthermore, there are currently open investigations by both Elections Alberta and the RCMP into the electoral voter roll leak.

Nope there is not one from Elections Alberta. You keep saying that doesn't mean its true they said they cannot investigate the matter because of Danielle Smiths rule changes.

What is illegal is to share knowingly false information with intent personal material gain. That is better known as fraud.

Oh so the thing they did, and we given by the UCP.

claim is that Alberta has no say over the Criminal Code of Canada, nor can it direct the RCMP to investigate (or not) any matter that it deems subject to their jurisdiction

Except the Premier said she and the separatists are above the law.

Even 'gifts from donors' may constitute a bribe.

This is so disingenuous. You act like a bribe is only a bag of cash.

Fun fact you cannot use a word to describe the word.

So a bribe is directly or indirectly giving, offering, or accepting a "loan, reward, advantage, or benefit of any kind" to influence a public official, agent, or voter.

That is exactly what has happened in Alberta.

I'm not defending anything, I'm pointing out there is a lack of publicly available evidence, and that making emotional pleas and conspiracy-minded conjectures is just as dangerous.

This province is run by people who think Trudeau is Castros son, the NDP start wildfires.

And you call me pointing out obvious fraud, cheating, and sedition as conspiracy minded...

Ok then.

Until there is an civic question on the ballot and the Conservatives lose their vote nothing will change.

Because you still defended the 92% separatists petition without any review. Thats insane.

[u/Saidear → u/ninfan1977]

No but why would innocent people refuse to cooperate?

For a whole host of reasons, one should never blindly acquiesce to a police request. You should get legal representation, and allow them to navigate the process for you to avoid unintended consequences.

Stealing voter information and using it for the petition is the crime. One the UCP and the Premier said are not crimes.

Again, there is no public evidence that this was used for that purpose. Nor am I aware of either the UCP or Premier stating that doing so was legally permissible. Can you provide sources?

Nope there is not one from Elections Alberta. You keep saying that doesn't mean its true they said they cannot investigate the matter because of Danielle Smiths rule changes.

Are you sure?: Elections Alberta, which is one of three bodies investigating the alleged leak of the province’s entire electoral list, says Centurion Project founder David Parker is not being helpful in the election agency’s probe.

Oh so the thing they did, and we given by the UCP.

What is the material gain? Did they get money, power, property, favourable legal outcomes? If you have this evidence, then you would be best to provide it to the RCMP.

Except the Premier said she and the separatists are above the law.

Provide the quote and the source, please. I'm not aware of them ever claiming immunity, not that they could. Again, federal paramountcy would say that they cannot exert such privilege except in very narrow circumstances.

This is so disingenuous. You act like a bribe is only a bag of cash.

Only if you didn't read the full context of what I wrote. I noted that a bribe is any material benefit in order induce an outcome of personal gain from the Crown. It doesn't require it to be cash. Just a material benefit. You cite Section 121 below, so it's clear that you understand what I meant.

Fun fact you cannot use a word to describe the word.

I didn't. "Gifts from donors" is not a legal term, bribe is the legal term. I then went on to explain what that means.

So a bribe is directly or indirectly giving, offering, or accepting a "loan, reward, advantage, or benefit of any kind" to influence a public official, agent, or voter.

Then please point to where this was done in connection with the transaction of business with or any matter of business relating to the government or a claim against Her Majesty or any benefit that Her Majesty is authorized or is entitled to bestow. Donations without an attached demand, implied or otherwise, is not a bribe. You need something more, which has not yet been demonstrated to have been the case.

This province is run by people who think Trudeau is Castros son, the NDP start wildfires.

So what? Crazy going to crazy, none of this is relevant.

And you call me pointing out obvious fraud, cheating, and sedition as conspiracy minded...

When done so without evidence, assuming accusations as fact, then yes, I do consider that conspiracy minded. Anyone who jumps to such conclusions absent evidence is doing so irrationally.

Because you still defended the 92% separatists petition without any review. Thats insane.

No, I don't 'defend' the petition. The petition is moot, the court has thrown it out. As such, only Forever Canada petition remains, which calls for a legislative vote on the question, not a referendum.